The "Super-Slim" PS3 (4000 model series) - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 272 Old 10-01-2012, 12:14 AM
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http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-09-29-sony-on-the-new-ps3-vita-sales-the-decline-of-3d-and-the-threat-of-the-wii-u

Confirmed that 12GB Flash model will require you to buy the hard drive mounting bracket separately. Sony rep said it's cheap but you know what "cheap" means to Sony. I'm guessing probably around $20 range since it's "Sony" branded.

At least Sony aknowledges that some buyers are the hardcore who want to put in huge hard drive.

I wonder if 4000 model firmware has "auto 12GB flash space deleter" because you know many games will install something especially patches. Very casual gamers will be confused on why the 12GB space keeps disappearing so quickly.
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post #182 of 272 Old 10-01-2012, 12:26 AM - Thread Starter
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For the record, that's Europe only. The flash storage PS3 is not coming to North America, so there are no bracket issues to be concerned about.

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post #183 of 272 Old 10-01-2012, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vortex3D View Post

I wonder if 4000 model firmware has "auto 12GB flash space deleter" because you know many games will install something especially patches. Very casual gamers will be confused on why the 12GB space keeps disappearing so quickly.
Even the "very casual" gamer has some sense of space limitations. Most tech devices now have built-in storage of some kind (DVRs, phones, etc.), so even non-tech-savvy people have gotten used to thinking about it. People are stupid, but they're not that stupid.
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For the record, that's Europe only. The flash storage PS3 is not coming to North America, so there are no bracket issues to be concerned about.
Surprised more folks in the press aren't making more out of the fact that the 12gb sku is Europe only. Sony must really know their audience if no one's making a fuss about it. wink.gif

My only guess is that Sony's had much more traction with the PS3 in Europe than in other regions, so they're pushing harder into the European mainstream than they are in other regions.

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post #184 of 272 Old 10-01-2012, 11:43 AM
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I'm considering this new model (don't have any PS3 now), but I can't seem to find anyone selling the vertical stand for it. I don't have room under the TV, so it'd need to set vertically next to the TV.

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post #185 of 272 Old 10-01-2012, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

Even the "very casual" gamer has some sense of space limitations. Most tech devices now have built-in storage of some kind (DVRs, phones, etc.), so even non-tech-savvy people have gotten used to thinking about it. People are stupid, but they're not that stupid.
Surprised more folks in the press aren't making more out of the fact that the 12gb sku is Europe only. Sony must really know their audience if no one's making a fuss about it. wink.gif
My only guess is that Sony's had much more traction with the PS3 in Europe than in other regions, so they're pushing harder into the European mainstream than they are in other regions.

As standalone Blu-ray players today, I still find not many people know that it stores BD Live data on the player flash storage. From DVD players, there is no writable storage inside the player, so when use Blu-ray, they expect the same. It's not the BD Live asks the user where to write the temp files to. Same as some PS3 games. When you start the game, some games quietly write some install files to the PS3 "hard drive". Even if the game does briefly showing "install", the user has no idea the amount of 12GB space is free or used. What PS3 OS needs is able to prompt the user to auto delete the game install directory if it's full.
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post #186 of 272 Old 10-01-2012, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Vortex3D View Post

As standalone Blu-ray players today, I still find not many people know that it stores BD Live data on the player flash storage. From DVD players, there is no writable storage inside the player, so when use Blu-ray, they expect the same. It's not the BD Live asks the user where to write the temp files to. Same as some PS3 games. When you start the game, some games quietly write some install files to the PS3 "hard drive". Even if the game does briefly showing "install", the user has no idea the amount of 12GB space is free or used. What PS3 OS needs is able to prompt the user to auto delete the game install directory if it's full.
Point taken, but there's a pretty big difference between Blu-ray players storing temporary data (which most people generally have no need to know about) and a console/phone/DVR/media player storing data that needs to be managed by the user.

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post #187 of 272 Old 10-02-2012, 10:58 AM
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would the price drop for "super slim" ps3 on black friday? or just for "slim" ps3?
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post #188 of 272 Old 10-02-2012, 11:01 AM
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Nobody can comment on that without pure speculation.
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post #189 of 272 Old 10-02-2012, 11:17 AM
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Nobody can comment on that without pure speculation.
Correction. Nobody can comment on that--or anything at all on the internet ever--without pure speculation.

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post #190 of 272 Old 10-02-2012, 11:24 AM
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If Sony announces a price drop, then we can. smile.gif
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post #191 of 272 Old 10-02-2012, 12:43 PM
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Point taken, but there's a pretty big difference between Blu-ray players storing temporary data (which most people generally have no need to know about) and a console/phone/DVR/media player storing data that needs to be managed by the user.

Since I still haven't own a standalone Blu-ray that has integrated storage for BD Live. Does the player always auto delete the BD Live temp files? On PS3, I wanted to see how large the BD Live directory will get and once it got up to 8GB of cached stuff. If the movie creates an icon based cache file, it will never auto delete. But most of the stuff downloaded from BD Live are stored in a directory. Terminator 2 Skynet edition will cache it 3-4GB of BD Live data alone.
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post #192 of 272 Old 10-03-2012, 11:28 PM
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post #193 of 272 Old 10-07-2012, 08:09 PM
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Crappy cooling system like I thought it would have. The phat one and the slim one has copper cooling pipes and a massive heatsink and a large fan.
That new PS3 super slim has a tiny fan(more noisy, less airflow) and a small heatsink with no copper cooling pipes as far as I can see...
So will easily overheat if played for long periods of time.... I can't see them using several thousands of pounds of technology like lightweight 1U class D power amps have in a product that costs £200,LOL.

Top loading blu-ray player has good points and bad points:

Good points: If a scratched disc or otherwise faulty disc is inserted it cannot get jammed inside like with the other PS3 models. And if the drive itself goes faulty, your precious game won't be stuck inside.

Bad points: Flimsy disc lid could break with careless users, anyone who mounts the console standing up and accidentally knocks it, will have it falling off the platter and the disc WILL get scratched.
Also when the PS3 is in a tv rack unit, 90% of users have them in tv rack/stand units. The top lid will easily hit the shelf above it, making disc changing a pain.

Bigger hard drive who cares, I got a 1TB Samsung hard drive in mine, anyone with a simple screwdriver set and anyone can look online at the guides how to change a PS3 hard drive.
It's not rocket science, and it doesn't void your warranty either, as says how to do it in the manual even.

I just think it's a way of Sony to make more money for the sake of it by releasing the PS3 super slim before the PS4 is released....

PS3 slim IS a big improvement over the PS3 fat. But the PS3 super slim looks like it's taking a step backwards....
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post #194 of 272 Old 10-07-2012, 08:16 PM
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In terms of cooling, I can't really say. But I have a hard time believing it'll be an issue this late in the cycle. Tech gets smaller and cooler all around. Hell, the Slim models have 1/4 of the ventilation as the Phats, but they're much more reliable.
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Also when the PS3 is in a tv rack unit, 90% of users have them in tv rack/stand units. The top lid will easily hit the shelf above it, making disc changing a pain.
You do realize that the lid doesn't lift "open," right? It slides sideways.

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post #195 of 272 Old 10-07-2012, 08:22 PM
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In terms of cooling, I can't really say. But I have a hard time believing it'll be an issue this late in the cycle. Tech gets smaller and cooler all around. Hell, the Slim models have 1/4 of the ventilation as the Phats, but they're much more reliable.
You do realize that the lid doesn't lift "open," right? It slides sideways.

Strange, I thought it would open up like the PS2 slim did....

Sliding side could still snap with careless users, but least it won't be an issue with tv racks with narrow shelves.

And chips may get smaller and but generally fans don't get more efficient per airflow for their size until they are a certain size. Plus there is no copper heatpipes as far as I can see.
And in an article I'm just reading now it says: "A quick inspection reveals adequate thermal paste on the GPU, but a less-than-perfect job on the CPU." So there you go it DOES have overheating problems UNLESS modified.

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/PlayStation+3+Super+Slim+Teardown/10670/2
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post #196 of 272 Old 10-08-2012, 02:21 AM
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And in an article I'm just reading now it says: "A quick inspection reveals adequate thermal paste on the GPU, but a less-than-perfect job on the CPU." So there you go it DOES have overheating problems UNLESS modified.
http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/PlayStation+3+Super+Slim+Teardown/10670/2

Reading into something which isn't there are you?

the CPU is on a heat spreader already, it will be negligible difference, and given the fact that the Cell has had a die shrink already, overheats will be even less likely. But a typical FUD comment from someone whom doesn't know much about technology I guess
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post #197 of 272 Old 10-08-2012, 10:01 AM
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With this late into PS3 lifecycle, Sony has to ensure the "final" model design will last for many years. Sony said 2 years but that doesn't mean Sony is going to completely stop making PS3 unless no one is buying it once PS4 comes out which is unlikely. Just look at PS1 and PS2. I finally stopped seeing PS2 being sold not that long ago.

Sony knows almost all loyal PS3 gamers who want quality built already own at least one PS3 console. It's the super casual gamers that mostly still sitting around waiting for the "magic" price tag. I'm not going to describe the rest since you know who are the super casual gamers.

My opinion with the new super slim PS3 is the existing PS3 owners who may want to buy another console or replacing their existing console. Now they are stuck replacing with even cheaper quality PS3 or some stacked their older PS3 under another player which doesn't work with 4000 model.

Remember the Sony CEO back then when PS3 was announced about having to have two jobs to be able to afford one PS3, the newer revisions of PS3 design is a result of marketing PS3 in the wrong direction because the CEO (or was he?) back then in Sony wanted PS3 to be a "super computer" and ignored the cost of making one. All PS3 revisions since then have been major reduction in the machine cost and then drop in the built quality.

There is something I'm very curious about the cost of console parts. When M*S* introduced slim X36*, they are able to make the console casing more stylish and borrowed many of the stylish design from the launch PS3. And they are still able to keep slim X36* within the low cost. As Sony revises each PS3 model, the built "appearance" keeps going down. If they can't even afford something cheap like LEDs in 3000 model, I think Sony is shopping the PS3 generic parts from the wrong supplier. Is the resistor or capacitor used in PS3 any different quality than those in X36*? By PS3 model 4000, the circuit board looks simpler design than slim X36*. That is one area I like to see someone does a cost teardown comparison between newest PS3 and X36* models.

Now with Sony very conscious on the cost to build PS4, will PS4 casing design going to be very plain or very stylish again before they tune it back down as they revised the model? We'll know in 2 years.

Side note: Futureshop in Canada is selling PS3 model 4000 with 16GB flash for $99 (after the discount). Didn't know Canada is allow to sell that model:
http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/microsoft-xbox-360-4gb-console-rkb-00002/10147903.aspx?lang=en-CA&pcname=&sku=10147903&path=c6f4e891d54e7efd5d473863a9c7e219en02
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post #198 of 272 Old 10-08-2012, 03:40 PM
 
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Quote:
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Reading into something which isn't there are you?
the CPU is on a heat spreader already, it will be negligible difference, and given the fact that the Cell has had a die shrink already, overheats will be even less likely. But a typical FUD comment from someone whom doesn't know much about technology I guess

Yeah, IT... WTH are you talking about?

The RSX is the small chip, and it's completely covered. The cell is the large chip, and it's completely covered.

The cell is also covered right. The actual chip-set is in the center of the metal shim and you're supposed to put a glop in the center, and press firmly which will leave a circle splotch as you see there.

For some reason idiots are claiming you're supposed to apply a layer over the whole thing with a credit card, but that leads to unevenness and also air pockets, which are big no-no's when applying thermal paste.

You better off with a good seal between the shim and heatsink and a bit missing around the edges; than the whole thing covered, with air pockets and unevenness.

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Crappy cooling system like I thought it would have. The phat one and the slim one has copper cooling pipes and a massive heatsink and a large fan.
.

You're claiming the phats had a better and adequate cooling system? Ok, now I know you;re just trolling...
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post #199 of 272 Old 10-09-2012, 03:41 AM
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No need to try to disprove him. Anyone that knows anything about this noticed the nature of the disc lid mechanism right after taking note of its overall visual appearance. Yet he wasn't even aware of that basic fact.

I think any reasonable person wouldn't place any stock in his assessments of the quality of the internals.
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post #200 of 272 Old 10-09-2012, 10:32 AM
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Yeah, IT... WTH are you talking about?
The RSX is the small chip, and it's completely covered. The cell is the large chip, and it's completely covered.
The cell is also covered right. The actual chip-set is in the center of the metal shim and you're supposed to put a glop in the center, and press firmly which will leave a circle splotch as you see there.
For some reason idiots are claiming you're supposed to apply a layer over the whole thing with a credit card, but that leads to unevenness and also air pockets, which are big no-no's when applying thermal paste.
You better off with a good seal between the shim and heatsink and a bit missing around the edges; than the whole thing covered, with air pockets and unevenness.
You're claiming the phats had a better and adequate cooling system? Ok, now I know you;re just trolling...

The phats and slims have copper cooling pipes and bigger fans. Did I say the phat had better cooling? The phat had YLOD issues due to lousy heat transfer paste used and applied. And other issues.

And please don't say I'm trolling I find that very offensive for someone to say that to me on a forum where we are supposed to discuss things like mature adults.
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post #201 of 272 Old 10-09-2012, 11:39 AM
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You claim that YLOD will be a big issue, but I've seen nothing to suggest it other than your fixation on the Super Slim having no "cooling pipes." This is the third major revision of the hardware (the first removed a lot of internal hardware, the second removed even more and introduced new chips, and the third is doing all of the above and introducing cheaper casing). Elaborate cooling solutions just aren't necessary at this point. And until these things are in the wild and in use for six months, we simply can't know or predict how reliable they'll be.

And as I and others have pointed out, you didn't even know a very basic and very visible thing like the new sliding lid. You can imagine why we'd question your expertise in more technical areas and use a term like "trolling." If someone doesn't know 2+2=4, why should we trust them with differential calculus?

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post #202 of 272 Old 10-10-2012, 07:30 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ItchyTasty42 View Post

The phats and slims have copper cooling pipes and bigger fans. Did I say the phat had better cooling? The phat had YLOD issues due to lousy heat transfer paste used and applied. And other issues.
And please don't say I'm trolling I find that very offensive for someone to say that to me on a forum where we are supposed to discuss things like mature adults.

There was nothing wrong with the thermal paste in the original phat PS3's...

There was an issue that temperatures would get up to 100-110C, and the bulk of the heatsink was made of aluminum. The copper from those pipes would have better been spent on local heatsinks and shims directly on the processor and RSX.

In the end phats heat dissipation was totally under-engineered for the temperatures they were putting out for even moderate gaming. If it was a gaming rig, you'd have copper heatsinks and a water cooling system set up to several large fans. Even my (mid range) laptop that gets up to 90C has a much more robust and better engineered cooling system.


Knowing the die shrink and reduction in heat and energy use levels of past slims, I don't see why this new design would be inadequate.
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post #203 of 272 Old 10-10-2012, 08:01 AM
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When M*S* introduced slim X36*, they are able to make the console casing more stylish and borrowed many of the stylish design from the launch PS3. And they are still able to keep slim X36* within the low cost.

Your personal bias makes you think the 360 is stylish and cool. It is a big piece of plastic with an inelegant external power brick. It isn't very small and has lots of air volume in its design. A flimsy loud ejecting tray is also the hallmark of a cheap disc player, which the 360 has never gotten away from. So those in glass houses should not throw stones. Both have cost reduction measures and both tried to look as good as possible, which is purely subjective. Footprint, power uses, sound, etc. are not subjective and there is nothing the suggest the PS3 slim or new super-slim has made any bad design decisions. On the contrary it went from the largest HD console to the smallest this gen while keeping the power supply internal and sound low. Reliability also got much better, but it was never close to as bad as the first few years of the 360.

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post #204 of 272 Old 10-10-2012, 10:11 AM
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Your personal bias makes you think the 360 is stylish and cool. It is a big piece of plastic with an inelegant external power brick. It isn't very small and has lots of air volume in its design. A flimsy loud ejecting tray is also the hallmark of a cheap disc player, which the 360 has never gotten away from. So those in glass houses should not throw stones. Both have cost reduction measures and both tried to look as good as possible, which is purely subjective. Footprint, power uses, sound, etc. are not subjective and there is nothing the suggest the PS3 slim or new super-slim has made any bad design decisions. On the contrary it went from the largest HD console to the smallest this gen while keeping the power supply internal and sound low. Reliability also got much better, but it was never close to as bad as the first few years of the 360.

Not trying to argue about the look since it's all personal taste. I guess if you don't think slim X36* looks stylish, then you probably don't think the launch plat PS3 looks stylish with all the shiny (not the later plat) chrome and shiny piano surfaces. But personal option about all the slim PS3 is not that they are ugly, they really have lost the classy look from the launch plat PS3. I have several PS3, both launch 20GB (no chrome except Playstation 3 title but entire console is shiny piano black), 60GB and 80GB PS3 that all have PS2 BC, and slim PS3 model 2500. But that's all right especially if you think the later slim PS3 looks good because it's all out there now. I keep them in well temperature control cooling and all they are running great. My 20GB PS3 has more blades fan which runs very quiet until it heats up but not often since I have external cooling.

Speaking of cooling, I found a good way to keep PS3 (any model) cooler is under the console that has very hot spots. Blowing or sucking the air directly into/out of the console like retails attachment coolers cause dirt to gather inside the console. But if you use like laptop cooling pad that has fans, it cools the bottom of the console which reduces the temperature. Since the bottom of PS3 is all sealed, there's no air that can go into inside the console. I put the sealing tape around the cooling pad to control how the air floats. Since the air cools down as it moves around the bottom of the PS3, I direct some of the air to exit to the rear and some towards front. If you measure the air temperature, by the time it exits, it's back to cooler air which is the reason I let some of the air exists to the front where the console air vent intake will have extra cooler air to further cools down the console. Since the air came out from inside the cooling pad, the air is mostly dust free or not any worse than the air around the console. I have been using the solution for several years and it works well. Plus during the cooler months, I can disable the cooling pad fans at anytime by unplugging the USB cable.
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post #205 of 272 Old 10-12-2012, 12:43 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm off to get one of these new units, which will be my first PS3 purchase since my 60 gigger back on launch day six years ago. GameStop says they have a special to give me double the trade in value on my current machine, so I may as well take advantage of it. Right now I am backing up all my saves to the PS+ cloud that I hadn't registered to the service yet. Then I'll deactivate this system so I can re-dload my entire library.

Compared to the previous models I'd rather have the auto load tray mechanism, but other than that I'm sure I'll be pleased with the new unit.

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post #206 of 272 Old 10-12-2012, 02:43 PM
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You got your process right, don't forget to deactivate it! And be sure you erase it too.
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post #207 of 272 Old 10-12-2012, 09:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Deactivated and reformatted, old reliable has finally been traded in.

I am amazed at how much I got for the 60 gigger from GameStop. I haven't been following the prices online, but I am jazzed by the deal they gave me: $170 credit towards the purchase of the Super Slim. I also turned in some of games that I won't play any more under their limited +30% bonus credit special and ended up paying only $27 for the new PS3. cool.gif

So far, the machine is working perfectly. PS+'s cloud storage transferred all 175 of my game saves (some games had multiple saves) without issue. The cooling in the new unit has a hushed whisper when you put your ear near it, but at normal ranges it is audibly undetectable. The sliding lid works decently for it does, but I still liked the old way better. I already plugged in my media, registered my BlueTooth gadgets and accessories, and am now dloading a ton of PSN stuff. Synching the trophies is taking a loooooooong time since it has to bring over every single one to me from scratch.

One thing is for sure; even though I have a new PS3 and changed internet service providers in the last six weeks or so, I still can not get any Amazon HD video to load up (the error message says it can't check the speed of my connection). It is obviously a Amazon app issue. I think I will drop Amazon Prime early next year if it isn't fixed for me by then.

Update: I tried out some Tekken as my first Blu-ray software program. You can hear a windup whirr when all is quiet any time the drive initially accesses the disc. This wasn't an issue with the old system. I'll get used to it, but it can be jarring right now.

Update II: I tested a Blu ray movie (Ronin) and the only sound from the machine is a very soft whirr of the drive which isn't even noticeable in quiet scenes. I guess the drive is in constant motion when watching a flick on disc. BTW, I can't make any comparisons to the last few models since I have never used them.

If you are on the look out for a new machine cheap and have an older PS3 to trade, you might want to go to GameStop while the double trade-in credit promotion is still going (plus the extra 30% credit for used games and accessories. I doubt there will be a better deal to be found in 2012.

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post #208 of 272 Old 10-13-2012, 06:28 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

but I am jazzed by the deal they gave me: $170 credit towards the purchase of the Super Slim.

I'd recommend this to any Phat owner, as they are ticking time bombs.

Seems a few people like you have gotten away a long time with their original launch unit, but I went through 2 phat consoles at a cost of $850, ad each only lasted 2 years give or take a month. No idea how you've lucked out with how much you game!

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post #209 of 272 Old 10-13-2012, 10:23 AM
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A question I still have is the "2 consoles limit" for downloaded games vs the original "5 consoles limit". If I bought the download games before the new 2 consoles limit restriction, does that mean I still have 5 consoles limit or Sony reverts every download games down to 2 consoles even you bought it with 5 consoles limit.

If the 2 console limit is true, then what happens if I already have 5 consoles activated on the download game that was bought long time ago? I still have old download games on my oldest PS3 consoles and I don't want to logon to PSN to find out.
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post #210 of 272 Old 10-13-2012, 10:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Anything purchased before November 2011 will retain the 5 dload limit regardless of how many times you deactivate/reactivate systems. The newer rule only applies to purchases after that point.

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