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Old 06-30-2013, 07:24 PM
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I'm starting to get more interested in digital, but the fear of BC not happening on future hardware keeps me from jumping in. I like having the game just being a few clicks away, but the idea that my game may one day just vanish with no way to recover it just scares me. (This is coming from someone who lost 90% of their games in a house fire)

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Old 06-30-2013, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

I'm starting to get more interested in digital, but the fear of BC not happening on future hardware keeps me from jumping in. I like having the game just being a few clicks away, but the idea that my game may one day just vanish with no way to recover it just scares me. (This is coming from someone who lost 90% of their games in a house fire)

Don't sweat it. Just enjoy the games and move on. I guarantee that when you get older, your life will overflow with many more important things. smile.gif Even if you're right, not being able to go back and play $randomgame to remind yourself of the good ol' days (and then stopping after 15 minutes when you realize that it's not as good as you remember) won't be that big a deal.

(And then if you wait a little while longer, $randomgame will be subject to easy download and emulation, or perhaps an UberHD re-issue. Or a series of unending remakes, even. Won't that be fun?)

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Old 06-30-2013, 08:18 PM
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I like the idea of digital download, but there are still some drawbacks that outway the advantages. A ~25 Gig download exceeds my data cap for one, but even if it didn't I'm not sure I'd want to wait on a game that size to download. I also don't like the idea of storing a lot of games. A 10 year life cycle is a long time to collect games. My movie collection is small compared to some, and I've got 10 TB to store. Unless the consoles allow you to connect to an NAS, there's just not a good way to store lots of games on multiple drives. And you'll fill up a 1 TB drive faster than you might expect. On top of all that, I don't switch games often enough to make discless a big deal to me.
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Old 06-30-2013, 08:22 PM
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No way will I purchase my favorite games in digital form, I'm not That lazy to be bothered switching up the discs. I still play and enjoy older games to this day and I Really want the artwork cover stuff lol

When I play single player games, I pretty much solely focus on that game alone anyway, but I do switch up between online multiplayer games and I probably will get some of those in digital form because those games definitely won't be played again in the future.

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Old 06-30-2013, 08:40 PM
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It's disc whenever I have the choice.
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Originally Posted by jrnewquist View Post

Don't sweat it. Just enjoy the games and move on. I guarantee that when you get older, your life will overflow with many more important things. smile.gif Even if you're right, not being able to go back and play $randomgame to remind yourself of the good ol' days (and then stopping after 15 minutes when you realize that it's not as good as you remember) won't be that big a deal.

(And then if you wait a little while longer, $randomgame will be subject to easy download and emulation, or perhaps an UberHD re-issue. Or a series of unending remakes, even. Won't that be fun?)

While some people don't really revisit past games even if they fire them up occasionally, some of us do. I just started a save in Super Mario World today. It's a game I've beat probably once a year for over two decades now. Classic games are more than just brief flings with nostalgia for many.

And emulation is no guarantee. Very few consoles are emulated to a high degree where it's good enough to be virtually a 1:1 replacement for the real deal. And with complexity on the rise, it's likely many years after the death of a future console before it will be emulated anywhere well enough to actually enjoy playing games on. And even then there are other issues like adapting original controllers for the complete experience.

And only an extremely small percentage of games are ever rereleased, remade, etc.
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Old 06-30-2013, 09:22 PM
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for those people who are in favor of disc-less digital media downloads for next gen system. what are you gonna do when you make many purchases for several years and your system gets bricked? well many of you will buy a new PS4 and re-download everything??? its not practical. not to mention the data caps which you have to pay your internet provider extra money. the slow download speeds from PSN which is a headache. the number of how many times you can download each game on a specific account...its a pain in the ass if you ask me. were just not ready for it yet.
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Old 06-30-2013, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Notsobright View Post

for those people who are in favor of disc-less digital media downloads for next gen system. what are you gonna do when you make many purchases for several years and your system gets bricked? well many of you will buy a new PS4 and re-download everything??? its not practical. not to mention the data caps which you have to pay your internet provider extra money. the slow download speeds from PSN which is a headache. the number of how many times you can download each game on a specific account...its a pain in the ass if you ask me. were just not ready for it yet.

Why are you assuming everyone has slow downloads and has data caps? Comcast customers don't have caps. Nothing has changed when it comes to system bricks or downloads today like Steam. Everything is under our accounts and we can download what we want or delete at anytime so why does it matter about going digital. Our stuff is going to be there like it is now. I downloaded Geometry Wars on my 360 and haven't touched it in 4 years but I can go can download it when I want to.

We don't know what PSN will be like for the PS4 until it arrives. What does downloading each game on a specific account matter?

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Old 06-30-2013, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Notsobright View Post

for those people who are in favor of disc-less digital media downloads for next gen system. what are you gonna do when you make many purchases for several years and your system gets bricked? well many of you will buy a new PS4 and re-download everything??? its not practical. not to mention the data caps which you have to pay your internet provider extra money. the slow download speeds from PSN which is a headache. the number of how many times you can download each game on a specific account...its a pain in the ass if you ask me. were just not ready for it yet.

Not really a big deal for me, I've got fast DLs and no cap. PSN is usually as fast as XBL for me.

Although I wouldnt mind if they'd let me back up all my games and saves to my NAS.

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Old 06-30-2013, 09:52 PM
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PSN downloads at 1.5MBps for me on my 30mbps connection over wifi. PS4 should have even faster speeds thanks to faster wifi that is readily available. Speed isn't an issue for me and I have no data caps, so no issue there. I should be a poster child for the digital push, but I still have my worries.

PS4 has full background downloads and installs, so you can play a game or do anything while your stuff downloads. It is greatly improved over the current PS3 setup. Not sure about download limits on redownloads, have they touched on that?

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Old 06-30-2013, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

I'm starting to get more interested in digital, but the fear of BC not happening on future hardware keeps me from jumping in. I like having the game just being a few clicks away, but the idea that my game may one day just vanish with no way to recover it just scares me. (This is coming from someone who lost 90% of their games in a house fire)

In twenty years, if I'm still around, I will have zero desire to play anything on an archaic PS4 or XBOne. So I have no problem with the games not working at some point. It would be like me going back to watch some video tape I had in 1988 or a DVD I had in 1998. It's just not going to happen. Heck I don't even like watching a BD until I've ripped it to my server, but I have been watching 3D titles from disc this year.

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Old 06-30-2013, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Notsobright View Post

for those people who are in favor of disc-less digital media downloads for next gen system. what are you gonna do when you make many purchases for several years and your system gets bricked? well many of you will buy a new PS4 and re-download everything??? its not practical. not to mention the data caps which you have to pay your internet provider extra money. the slow download speeds from PSN which is a headache. the number of how many times you can download each game on a specific account...its a pain in the ass if you ask me. were just not ready for it yet.

It shouldn't be a problem. I would think you just queue it up and download it. Obviously you can't be dealing with restrictive data caps if you are going to use digital downloads. Although right now if I had a few Terabytes to download it wouldn't be a problem as long as it's done in the background on the machine. But I'm on a FiOS 150/65 tier so I'm not worried about any caps unless I go over something like 70TB in one month. And so far in the six years I've had FiOS I don't think I've exceeded 12TB in one month. And the norm for me is much lower.

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Old 06-30-2013, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

PSN downloads at 1.5MBps for me on my 30mbps connection over wifi. PS4 should have even faster speeds thanks to faster wifi that is readily available. Speed isn't an issue for me and I have no data caps, so no issue there. I should be a poster child for the digital push, but I still have my worries.

PS4 has full background downloads and installs, so you can play a game or do anything while your stuff downloads. It is greatly improved over the current PS3 setup. Not sure about download limits on redownloads, have they touched on that?

You can't claim anything is improved with PSN until we actually use it.

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Old 06-30-2013, 10:33 PM
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In twenty years, if I'm still around, I will have zero desire to play anything on an archaic PS4 or XBOne. So I have no problem with the games not working at some point. It would be like me going back to watch some video tape I had in 1988 or a DVD I had in 1998. It's just not going to happen.

So you would never watch your favorite movie again if it never got a rerelease? I am still waiting for a proper Megaman Legends rerelease in the US, there is no official way to play that game anymore. One of my favorite movies was just released on DVD and bluray this year. It came out in 1989 and got a limited VHS release and never was on TV due to lisencing issues. Sometimes legacy support is important.
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Old 06-30-2013, 10:40 PM
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Why are you assuming everyone has slow downloads and has data caps? Comcast customers don't have caps. Nothing has changed when it comes to system bricks or downloads today like Steam. Everything is under our accounts and we can download what we want or delete at anytime so why does it matter about going digital. Our stuff is going to be there like it is now. I downloaded Geometry Wars on my 360 and haven't touched it in 4 years but I can go can download it when I want to.

We don't know what PSN will be like for the PS4 until it arrives. What does downloading each game on a specific account matter?

when did i say that everyone has data caps? cant you read? i have comcast and i dont have data caps either. but comcast isnt available to everyone buddy. why should people upgrade thier internet when all games go digital downloads? its not fair for some. and if you buy a game on PSN you can only download it several times on different consoles until you have to re purchase it. are you sure that the next gen system are better then this gens in terms of durability and heat issues? no one knows until the mass public have tried it. i for example, prefer to drive my lazy ass to the nearest walmart or game stop or best buy or kmart and pick up my disc. i aint afraid to go outside my house.
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Old 06-30-2013, 10:43 PM
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So you would never watch your favorite movie again if it never got a rerelease? I am still waiting for a proper Megaman Legends rerelease in the US, there is no official way to play that game anymore. One of my favorite movies was just released on DVD and bluray this year. It came out in 1989 and got a limited VHS release and never was on TV due to lisencing issues. Sometimes legacy support is important.

I would never watch it if video tape was my only option. I might watch it if DVD was my only option. But my choice would be to watch it from a video streaming source. But I don't think I've run across any titles that I've come back to watch on DVD. I pretty much stopped watching commercial DVDs at the end of 2005 in anticipation of BD and HD DVD coming out in 2006. So unless it's at another location that I have no control over, I prefer not to watch anything from a DVD. I'd prefer to stream it over watching from a DVD.

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Old 06-30-2013, 10:47 PM
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Unless the network infrastructure across the country (USA Speaking) improves dramatically, digital only methods of distribution will cut off a MASSIVE chunk of the country due to either slow download speeds, data caps, or network reliability issues. I don't live in a major city. I live in the suburbs and pay $70 a month for a 40 megabit/s download speed. Earlier in the year, I purchased MLB The Show 13 digitally because one, I buy the game every year and the trade-in value after the next year's version is announced is pathetic, and two, because of the fact that I won't be trading it in I have no issues with just deleting it when the next version comes out. Still, it took 8 hours to download the game which had a file size of about 22 gb. HDD are not reliable. Over time, all of them will fail. I would hate to imagine what it would be like if I had a large collection of games on a hard drive that failed, and then had to spend days to redownload everything in order to play them again. There's also the worry that someday in the future, if a company folds or they change their minds about a game, that the software won't be available for redownload. This has happened before and there is nothing to stop it from happening again. If you have a physical disc, it doesn't matter. You can just put that game in and still play. If the download is made unavailable for you, then you are SOL and will never be able to play that game ever again.

Another benefit to having the discs is that I can keep my games in a cabinet and see what it is that I have. Just like with my massive DVD/Blu-Ray collection, one day I might walk by the cabinet and see a game/movie in there that I had forgotten about and pop it in again. That can't happen if it's all digital as the only reason I'd turn my console on would be if I wanted to play a specific game. So I wouldn't be able to have that casual "oh, I forgot about this game. I'll play it now" moment.

Another person in this thread mentioned the use of emulation. Although processing power is still increasing, I don't think it's increasing at the same insane rate that it was ten-15 years ago. Consoles like the PS1, NES, SNES, etc. are able to be emulated well due to a combination of weak processing power of the original consoles, and much greater processing power of the current computers we have out there. More recent consoles are FAR more powerful and make use of more complex and heavier encryption which makes emulation even more difficult. Looking at our current generation of consoles, I just cannot see a PC powerful enough to fully emulate these games in my lifetime. We are reaching a limit to how powerful our PCs can get based upon how pure silicon can be refined and how reliable the components can be. (Sure, we could possibly get insanely powerful processors created in the future, but how reliable will those processors be when their ability to be that powerful relies on completely perfect and stable physical structures?)

The other thing we need to keep in mind is that the current state of emulation is possible because the actual game data is on a physical medium. There is a disc or a cartridge ROM that can be read and used to help develop the emulator itself. With full, 100% digital distribution, there is no way to have the physical copy of the data to use unless you are able to decrypt the hard drive that it is stored on. I don't see Sony or MS giving away the encryption keys, nor do I see enough people out there with the capability to do the full decryption and also have access to all games that have been released.

The biggest issues with digital downloads is that unlike a physical media where copies of the media can still be found decades after the production of it stopped, with digital distribution the ability to obtain the media stops the second the distributor turns off their server. As a result, a great deal of gaming history can be lost in an instant with zero way to ever get it back. I like the idea that right now, I can sit down with my little nephew and show him the videogames I played as a kid, whether that's by firing up the old console or firing up an emulator. If we go to a DD only process, he will NEVER be able to do that with his own kids or nephews in the future. THAT is frightening to me.
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Old 06-30-2013, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Notsobright View Post

and if you buy a game on PSN you can only download it several times on different consoles until you have to re purchase it.
Source? I'm pretty sure you can download your purchased digital content as many times as you like on 2 activated PS3s, if your PS3 happened to stop functioning you can log into the SEN website and deactivate the bricked console so you'd activate your account on another and be able to re-download everything.

Anyway I don't get the whole digital vs physical argument here, having both options is the best and that's what's happening at the moment so we should all be happy lol. I don't see retail market completely going away even with the PS5, there's just too much demand for it, we're going to have to wait and see how things turn out.
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Old 06-30-2013, 10:55 PM
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.............Another benefit to having the discs is that I can keep my games in a cabinet and see what it is that I have. Just like with my massive DVD/Blu-Ray collection, one day I might walk by the cabinet and see a game/movie in there that I had forgotten about and pop it in again. That can't happen if it's all digital as the only reason I'd turn my console on would be if I wanted to play a specific game. So I wouldn't be able to have that casual "oh, I forgot about this game. I'll play it now" moment..........
.

This is why I have most of my BDs and HD DVDs in storage. I don't want to have to search through hundreds and hundreds of titles. With my discs ripped to my servers I can just go to my tablet, select a title, and it will start playing on my media player. The same with the games. I hate having shelves full games. Half of them aren't on the shelf because I need to take them with me if I want to play a game on travel, or just to play the system in another room. To me discs are nothing but a PITA.

But I do understand that everyone has their own preference. So they need to have both options available for now. But at some point in the future, physical media will be overtaken by digital media. I have no idea when it will happen, just that at some point it will.

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Old 07-01-2013, 12:19 AM - Thread Starter
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and if you buy a game on PSN you can only download it several times on different consoles until you have to re purchase it.

False. You can dload a purchased game from the PSN as many times as you like on your two designated PS3s. You can also undesignate your PS3 to dload the games on a different one if you wish.

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Old 07-01-2013, 04:39 AM
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As far as emulation goes, the next gen should be very easy to emulate....theyre already x86. They're both offline systems, they'll get cracked eventually.

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Old 07-01-2013, 06:18 AM
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Physical copies of games come in handy as well when you are ready to upgrade your system.

Not many people are willing to take on an older system unless they come with a collection of games . When things go digital not many people are going to be willing to give up their account so they can sell a console with games.

I have sold older versions of consoles with a few games to get the price I wanted to get a newer version of the console there is much greater value in selling a console with games then just selling a console.

Hell, even going forward moving from a PS4 to a PS5 if there is no backwards compatibility and all the games were digital you couldn't even sell your old system who would buy it used if they still had to buy their own games.
Digital games devalue the games and devalue the console . I guess marketing the fast switching between games to today's youths is evident and it makes sense. , the same youths who can't focus on one task long enough to complete it , people who want to be able to show off there games rather then actually play them.

People are so willing to give up license for convenience

Allow the same transferable license as physical copies and I would embrace it (as long as a connection was not required for SP games)
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Old 07-01-2013, 06:24 AM
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http://www.videogamer.com/ps3/demons_souls/news/demons_souls_2_on_ps4_listed_by_retailer_2.html
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While it's certainly possible Demon's Souls 2 could be headed to PS4, CDON also lists Microsoft-exclusive Dead Rising 3 for release on Sony's console. Yoshida's comments give us hope, but it's best to take this with a pinch of salt until confirmed.
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Old 07-01-2013, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mboojigga View Post

Why are you assuming everyone has slow downloads and has data caps? Comcast customers don't have caps. Nothing has changed when it comes to system bricks or downloads today like Steam. Everything is under our accounts and we can download what we want or delete at anytime so why does it matter about going digital. Our stuff is going to be there like it is now. I downloaded Geometry Wars on my 360 and haven't touched it in 4 years but I can go can download it when I want to.

We don't know what PSN will be like for the PS4 until it arrives. What does downloading each game on a specific account matter?

But Comcast does have slow download speeds. eek.gif Took about 10 hours to download Uncharted 3 for me.
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Old 07-01-2013, 07:58 AM
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Old 07-01-2013, 08:10 AM
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More the cloud will save the XB1 talk. We'll see but, I doubt it, especially if you don't have to be connected now. How can devs count on having access to the cloud without a required connection?

Ryse was not the best looking game but, whatever.

I think the best looking game was The Witcher 3 followed by MGS V, Battlefield 4, Destiny and The Division, IMO.

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Old 07-01-2013, 08:40 AM - Thread Starter
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^^^ I'd add inFamous: Second Son to that list based on this HD gameplay video. smile.gif

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Old 07-01-2013, 08:40 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

So you would never watch your favorite movie again if it never got a rerelease? I am still waiting for a proper Megaman Legends rerelease in the US, there is no official way to play that game anymore. One of my favorite movies was just released on DVD and bluray this year. It came out in 1989 and got a limited VHS release and never was on TV due to lisencing issues. Sometimes legacy support is important.

Yeah, never understood that sort of thinking. A good game is a good game, right?

I can understand that kind of thought from casual players that just see gaming as pure entertainment and something to pass time. The game/story/legacy really doesn’t matter because it’s just something to consume and be done with.

Personally, for me, that’s not how I see it. I get a bit more value out of a good game, and love going back to them. The good ones make it fun, even when the controls and graphics are dated.
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Old 07-01-2013, 08:46 AM
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The problem with using the "Cloud computing " is that there are additional costs involved beyond game hosting.. And those resources are not free.

Develop a game using the cloud and you must pay for the additional use of the cloud resources which means a bigger portion of a game sale goes to the hosting company. and if the game prices stay the same that is less for the publisher.

I can see if a console was near the end of its usable life and the cloud enabled it to live a bit longer but a brand new console should be capable of standing alone and I would think that publishers would prefer not to use the cloud except out of necessity.

I'm sure that the publishers would rather keep their money then pay for the additional cloud based services ,

But if you are already starting with a console which is handicapped by graphics and memory then maybe it is a good place to start after-all... smile.gif
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Old 07-01-2013, 08:47 AM
 
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All 3rd party exclusives will see a release on the PS4 eventually, just as any PS4 ones will go to XBone. AAA Business is as such that they can no longer afford not to.

The question is just one of time.
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Old 07-01-2013, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
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But the Demons Souls IP is owned by Sony. A sequel would be exclusive to their hardware.

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