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post #541 of 17889 Old 03-19-2013, 07:57 AM
 
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Originally Posted by JukeBox360 View Post

It was without a doubt one of my all time favorite games. I'd like to see it come back.

A Socom 2 remake for ps4 would be awesome.

SOCOM 4 wasn't actually bad at all (besides the launch online issues that they cleared up).

But it got panned, "wasn't COD!" & "Wasn't SOCOM!"

biggrin.gif

As for SOCOM, I think i'ts nostalgia more than anything. It's like going back and playing RE1, or MGS1 or Goldeneye. Not many people can do it and still like it, and trying to bring that feel to a current gen game is a lot harder than just porting the gameplay. The gameplay is so dated, that you can't simply port and be done and expect it to sell, as it won't even feel the same.

SOCOM was great for it's time. Today it would need to find the prefect mix of new and a nostalgic feel to still be relevant. That is impossibly hard to do IMO.
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post #542 of 17889 Old 03-19-2013, 08:04 AM
 
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I see that now. Maybe it's a lost cause, but I'll try anyway. Part of a Valve article from 2001:

Works well when as an admin you can manage players and keep the average ping in check. Not so much when Pablo from Brazil, or Chad from Detroit is playing on his 3G hotspot smartphone and stinking up a server. Gets worse when you add P2P to the equation.

Hate to say it, but with MP gameplay you need pay to play. Giving handicaps to people that refuse to bring a better connection to an fast paced action game isn't really fair or fun, and makes me buy many less MP games than I would otherwise.
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post #543 of 17889 Old 03-19-2013, 08:14 AM - Thread Starter
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The aim assist crutch is half the reason I never play vs. mode in any console FPS. The other half is because of the lack of precision possible with an analog stick when compared to a mouse, making techniques like circle strafing impossible without programmed assists.

One thing that can help in this area that I hope gets implemented in PS4 shooters is the use of the DS4's reportedly improved motion controls. If anyone here has played Uncharted on the Vita, they know exactly what I'm talking about. It is the perfect balance between analog aiming and instant precision.

The way it works is that you use the right stick to swing the cursor towards a target as usual, but when you are ready to aim for a specific pixel, such as the middle of an enemy's forehead, you manually tilt the Vita for fine-tuned aiming of the cursor as you shoot.

It feels really good and natural with little practice, and it makes getting head shots a "do-able" skill that one can practice to develop without any lazy aim assists. The PS3's tilt controls were too laggy for this to be implemented. Since it works a lot better in the PS4, I hope that at least first party shooters have it as an option by default.

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post #544 of 17889 Old 03-19-2013, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

The problem tends to be the controller hardware, and not the person. There's really no reason a controller can't be as precise as a mouse/KB setup.

Sony said they're going for better precision, and I hope they mean it with the DS4. Meanwhile Valve is dead focused on making a better controller for their Valve Box.

It's about time. Precision didn't matter much in hardware handicapped FPS, and non-FPS old console games. But with the rise of FPS MP, they need to focus more on how we go about pointing and shooting.

That said the Aim assist in COD is hilarious, as you don't even need to be aiming at the person for it to lock in when going into iron sights. COD is weird, because it has a lot of subtle elements like that that people tend to love, because it makes it very accessible. Instant running, crouching, and not much change in spread while full blown sprinting and firing are also key to that feel and accessibility. ID Tech 3 also doesn't have true bullet physics; you aim, shoot and whatever is in the way is hit immediately.

Very different from a game like BF3 that has subtle differences in bullet speed, bullet drop over distance, and big change sin damage and spread dpensing on variables. You're actually firing a physical bullet in BF, in COD you're firing a pulse laser.

I'll believe it when I see it. If they can make the controller better, and that mitigates the need for strong aim assist, then so be it. But current gen controllers arent even close.

I played all my FPS games on PC up until 2007ish. By the cod 4 had come out, and its the first game where I felt the action (and frame rate) was as tight on console as it was on PC. Even if its artificial to some degree, they nailed the feel and kept the pace up without having everyone resort to hitting the ground and making micro adjustments on the analog stick until they get on target. Some might call it dumbed down, others might call it fine tuned. The aim assist never feels cheap to me, just part of the game that you rarely notice once you get used to it. Its just a sensitivity reduction when aiming near a target, and if the target moves laterally while you're in that zone, it'll follow. It never automatically puts you on target. And this only happens in close range. Without it the game just devolves to circle strafing and no one can hit each other.

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post #545 of 17889 Old 03-19-2013, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

The aim assist crutch is half the reason I never play vs. mode in any console FPS. The other half is because of the lack of precision possible with an analog stick when compared to a mouse, making techniques like circle strafing impossible without programmed assists.

One thing that can help in this area that I hope gets implemented in PS4 shooters is the use of the DS4's reportedly improved motion controls. If anyone here has played Uncharted on the Vita, they know exactly what I'm talking about. It is the perfect balance between analog aiming and instant precision.

The way it works is that you use the right stick to swing the cursor towards a target as usual, but when you are ready to aim for a specific pixel, such as the middle of an enemy's forehead, you manually tilt the Vita for fine-tuned aiming of the cursor as you shoot.

It feels really good and natural with little practice, and it makes getting head shots a "do-able" skill that one can practice to develop without any lazy aim assists. The PS3's tilt controls were too laggy for this to be implemented. Since it works a lot better in the PS4, I hope that at least first party shooters have it as an option by default.

I know exactly what you mean....that fine tuned aiming felt really great in UC:GA. I just dont know how well it would work outside of shooting at mostly stationary enemies behind cover. I dont think it can replace aim assist.

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post #546 of 17889 Old 03-19-2013, 08:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Aim assist would be easier for analog aiming than tilt precision, true, but the right kind of assist would make mouse aiming easier too if it were available on PC.

As long as they open up the options for tilt aiming, like allowing us to adjust the speed in menus and such, it can work really well. The right stick would be used to follow an enemy in motion, and the tilt would simultaneously be used to target specific areas of his body.

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post #547 of 17889 Old 03-19-2013, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

Aim assist would be easier for analog aiming than tilt precision, true, but the right kind of assist would make mouse aiming easier too if it were available on PC.

As long as they open up the options for tilt aiming, like allowing us to adjust the speed in menus and such, it can work really well. The right stick would be used to follow an enemy in motion, and the tilt would simultaneously be used to target specific areas of his body.

The problem I see with that is you're proposing a really complex set of motions. Both mouse and gamepad require you to do two things at once - get on target with your thumbs while managing firing with your fingers. You're adding a third layer of motion there, to fine tune with your wrists. Thats going to be really difficult, and I dunno if that could catch on given that most seem perfectly happy with aim assist, when those that rebuke it play on PC with a mouse. It would probably alienate more people than it satisfied, and unless everyone were forced to use it, it would be pointless. A better control scheme needs to be more natural, not more complex. The Wii pointer/move was a good shot at that, but ultimately it was too difficult to manage turning and aiming at the same time with that scheme.

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post #548 of 17889 Old 03-19-2013, 08:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Check out this video of global illumination tech that will be possible in PS4 games:
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Geomerics, the leading lighting technology company in the video game industry, today announced its support for Sony Computer Entertainment's newly announced PlayStation®4. Enlighten is now available to developers working on PlayStation®4 titles, bringing real-time global illumination to the next generation of games.
PS4

Enlighten is award-winning lighting software and the world's first fully real-time global illumination technology. Packed full of time-saving workflow features and a lightweight runtime, Enlighten is the only solution proven to deliver fully dynamic lighting on today's PCs, game consoles and mobile platforms. The technology has been used to add lighting effects to some of today’s most advanced and best-selling titles, including Battlefield 3, Need for Speed: The Run, Eve Online, Medal of Honor: Warfighter and the upcoming Dragon Age 3.

PlayStation®4 promises a dramatic increase in memory and compute resource, which will free developers to unleash the full creative power of dynamic lighting and to finally extend cinematographic film practices to dynamic immersive worlds.

“We are delighted to be working on PlayStation®4” said Geomerics’ founder Dr. Chris Doran. “The hardware is everything we were hoping for in a next generation console, and a huge step forward from the current generation. Real-time global illumination was a big deal for games running on the current generation of hardware, but it required developers to make some compromises. With PlayStation®4, those days are behind us. We can finally unleash the full power of Enlighten, and allow game developers working on PlayStation®4 games to bring far deeper levels of dynamism and quality to game lighting. We cannot wait to see what developers produce with Enlighten.”

VP Sales Rob Precious added “The amount of interest from developers for PlayStation®4 is huge. The next few months are going to be very exciting for us and we are looking forward to publishers and developers revealing some of what we have been working on.”

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post #549 of 17889 Old 03-19-2013, 08:45 AM
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Gonna have to wait for home as work is now tight with the vid sites.

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post #550 of 17889 Old 03-19-2013, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Crash44 View Post

Gonna have to wait for home as work is now tight with the vid sites.

Maybe it was the youtube compression on this one, but I thought the UE4 demos were considerably more impressive.

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post #551 of 17889 Old 03-19-2013, 09:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, you would think they would post up a better quality YouTube video, but what can you do. Anyway, they aren't promoting a full blown engine like UE4. It is just a lighting middle ware tool. It does however hint at the improvements we will see next gen when it comes to lighting.

Here is the company founder all excited for the PS4:
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Thanks go out to Chris Doran, founder of entertainment technology company Geomerics, for his thoughts on the next generation of graphics.

2013 is the year of the new console and the battle lines are being drawn. We have new devices attempting to usurp the big three from the living room, with Ouya, Gamestick and Steambox the front runners. We are seeing increasingly bold statements from the mobile community on the power of the latest tablets and handhelds. But for many, the real interest is in the next generation of consoles, and in particular what the potential of the PlayStation 4 means for 3D artists working on game graphics.

The PlayStation 4 represents possibly the single biggest leap seen in a console generation. In terms of the two things graphics programmers care most about – memory and GPU performance – the jump is vast. So what will this mean? As a middleware provider that works with game artists regularly, here are our thoughts on some immediate consequences:

1. Novel geometry formats

The basic building block of games graphics is the texture-mapped triangle, and this is unlikely to change dramatically. Graphics hardware is designed to process huge numbers of triangles and that will continue to be the way to drive the best performance and quality. But this reliance on triangulated geometry has formed a long-standing barrier between games and animated film, with the latter preferring geometry standards that are inherently smooth. We will see more film technologies adopted, and I’m sure some developers will even make entire games that do away with triangles altogether. With so much power, you can sacrifice some performance if it makes the authoring process simpler and more intuitive.

2. High-quality textures

Artists love to author extremely high-resolution textures. However, these are routinely compressed to fit inside memory constraints. What we will see with the next-gen consoles will be a major improvement in texture resolution on characters, textures and more, and that will make a significant difference in the immersive power of the game.

3. There will be light!

Lighting has long been a story-telling mechanism for filmmakers, and with more powerful hardware, we expect to see that practice adopted across the gaming world. Some of the best-looking games on this current generation still suffer from artefacts, and dynamic shadowing is often viewed as an expensive luxury. On next generation consoles, dynamic lighting and shadowing will be expected. Game developers will be able to deploy all of the techniques of film cinematography in games, with dynamic lighting integral to design.

4. Massive advances in post-production

Many of the techniques that give film its final look are achieved in ‘post’, where multiple effects are layered on top of each other to compose the final image. The next generation will bring these techniques into the interactive realm, with local, dynamic control over each pass.

5. No compromises

As we reach the end of a console cycle we know how to achieve great graphics, or physics, or AI, or gameplay. But we know we cannot do all of these simultaneously. All design choices become a series of compromises. A new generation puts an end to these debates as, in the early days, the new resources remove any constraints. This lasts until we really get to work on the hardware pushing each area to its new limits!

This is what next generation means for games graphics – raising the quality bar across the board, and opening up new ways for artists to achieve even better results. Better graphics, increased immersion and greater dynamism; these are the keys to the next generation. And when people see this in action, they will not want to turn back!

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post #552 of 17889 Old 03-19-2013, 09:54 AM
 
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Maybe it was the youtube compression on this one, but I thought the UE4 demos were considerably more impressive.

The really interesting thing there was the shadow detail projected from objects and getting the right color of shadows. Gamers tend to think of shadows as black or gray, but ask any photographer and they'll tell you every and all shadows have a color spectrum, just as light does.

Go outside on a sunny day and really focus on the color and you'll see it, especially at different times of the day. Getting shadow color from nearby objects ambient light is costly, but it subtly makes lighting and shadow seem much more real.
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post #553 of 17889 Old 03-19-2013, 09:59 AM
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SOCOM 4 wasn't actually bad at all (besides the launch online issues that they cleared up).

But it got panned, "wasn't COD!" & "Wasn't SOCOM!"

biggrin.gif

As for SOCOM, I think i'ts nostalgia more than anything. It's like going back and playing RE1, or MGS1 or Goldeneye. Not many people can do it and still like it, and trying to bring that feel to a current gen game is a lot harder than just porting the gameplay. The gameplay is so dated, that you can't simply port and be done and expect it to sell, as it won't even feel the same.

SOCOM was great for it's time. Today it would need to find the prefect mix of new and a nostalgic feel to still be relevant. That is impossibly hard to do IMO.
Inwas excited about Socom since zipper was the ones making it. But failed miserably. It didn't feel like Socom. Confrontation felt more like an original Socom then 4. It would have been a damn awesome game had it not been so buggy.
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post #554 of 17889 Old 03-19-2013, 11:01 AM
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Check out this video of global illumination tech that will be possible in PS4 games:

Nice! I hope for once shadows won't look and feel absolutely horrible on a console. I'll probably shed a tear if I saw high resolution textures on a console too lol, so much crappy textures right now that don't do 1080p any justice.

As for the CoD aim assist talk, I agree there should be Some kind of aim assist on consoles to make people's life easier, but hell no the amount that's there at the moment isn't NEEDED, just another big crutch. I sure opened a can of worms bringing up CoD in the discussion though, but it beats all the BC talk lol =P.

Now back to the PS4, what do you guys think Kojima will bring to the table @ E3? His Fox Engine sure looks promising and the guy's a genius, I can't wait to see how he'll unlock what the PS4 can do (I'm a bit bias here though since MGS is my all time favorite game series :P).

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post #555 of 17889 Old 03-19-2013, 11:33 AM
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MGS is what made me get a play station in the 1st place.
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post #556 of 17889 Old 03-19-2013, 11:39 AM
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Lol, I honestly never realize aim assist was even controversial. tongue.gif

As far as Kojima goes.....I haven't been interested in much of anything out of Japan for years. They don't seem to evolve their formulas as quickly as western devs do, or maybe its just cultural differences have become more pronounced over time. It always seems like the games are a few years behind in terms of design. Everything coming from the east either seems like a throwback, ancient design or just plain bizarre....and it wasnt too long ago that it seemed like the entire industry was dominated by them.

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post #557 of 17889 Old 03-19-2013, 11:48 AM
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I've never seen an actual game level with the amount of detail (and polygons) they show in these tech demos, and that's not going to change with the PS4 either.

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post #558 of 17889 Old 03-19-2013, 12:00 PM - Thread Starter
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The next-gen console version of Battlefield 4 will officially be 720P @60fps and launches in November 2013.

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post #559 of 17889 Old 03-19-2013, 12:03 PM
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Well, that´s you opinion, you almost say that all asians look the same.

I bought my PS3 for GT5, but found this jewel called MGS4, still play it from time to time, I´ve never bought another MGS game, I´m interested on what Kojima would offer in PS4
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post #560 of 17889 Old 03-19-2013, 12:28 PM
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The next-gen console version of Battlefield 4 will officially be 720P @60fps and launches in November 2013.
60fps will be a big deal, and it's intersting that they will be coming out the same month as the next COD. I am looking forward to some info, but I didn't enjoy BF3 as much as I thought I would.

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post #561 of 17889 Old 03-19-2013, 12:38 PM
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Well, that´s you opinion, you almost say that all asians look the same.

I bought my PS3 for GT5, but found this jewel called MGS4, still play it from time to time, I´ve never bought another MGS game, I´m interested on what Kojima would offer in PS4

Man you're missing out on so much, please do yourself a favor and get the MGS HD collection and if you don't mind playing older games get MGS1 from PSN store too, they're all amazing games, my personal favorite is MGS3. I'd suggest even playing the older MG games, but usually people look at me funny when they see how old they are lol (1987 and 1990).

As for West vs Japanese games, even though I like western games, I can't help but notice that most of my favorite games are made in Japan, so I guess I prefer 'em by a long shot.

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post #562 of 17889 Old 03-19-2013, 12:39 PM
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The next-gen console version of Battlefield 4 will officially be 720P @60fps and launches in November 2013.
Well that sucks. Why only 720?
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post #563 of 17889 Old 03-19-2013, 12:44 PM
 
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60fps will be a big deal, and it's intersting that they will be coming out the same month as the next COD. I am looking forward to some info, but I didn't enjoy BF3 as much as I thought I would.
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However, the next generation consoles including the PC would get 64 players while the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 would stick to the default 24 player setup which is currently seen on Battlefield 4.

Read more: http://wccftech.com/battlefield-4-sticks-720p60-fps-nextgen-consoles-frostbite-25-game-details-leaked-arriving-november-2013/#ixzz2O15Ef1FO

If thats true, it's a major disappointment. The biggest flaw with BF3 on consoles wasn't the frame-rate or the hit in graphics, but the change in gameplay the reduced player count caused.

Is DICE concerned about the MSONY networks ability to handle those types of player loads? And their refusal to deal with players with horrible connections? Possibly. As I've said lag problems are notorious for me on both networks, and as far as I know it isn't be and me 20-50ms ping causing it. (although I'm still looking for info if Comcast is packet filtering PSN data). PC gaming is fine for me, but you can control who you play with with 90% of PC gaming.
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post #564 of 17889 Old 03-19-2013, 12:46 PM
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That actually makes plenty if sense. BF3 on ps3 and 360 were just a waste. If anything they only put it on console to get more sales. I don't think they should have ever brought it into the console world for the pure fact it looks and works like crap compared to even a low end PC.
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post #565 of 17889 Old 03-19-2013, 12:51 PM
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So BF4 will be a launch title? That's pretty solid if it won't be available on the PS3 or Xbox 360!

I can't comment much on the game since I barely played it, but even though it's disappointing that they won't do 1080p/60fps from the get go, I at least like the fact that they're doing 720p @ 60fps instead of 1080p @ 30fps.

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post #566 of 17889 Old 03-19-2013, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by metallicaband View Post

So BF4 will be a launch title? That's pretty solid if it won't be available on the PS3 or Xbox 360!

I can't comment much on the game since I barely played it, but even though it's disappointing that they won't do 1080p/60fps from the get go, I at least like the fact that they're doing 720p @ 60fps instead of 1080p @ 30fps.

Yeah, I agree 100%. I want to high five whenever made the call to go for 60@720 over 30@1080. Frame rate is always better than resolution for shooters.

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post #567 of 17889 Old 03-19-2013, 01:08 PM
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That rumor was busted. Just a guy on a Chinese forum joking around.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=524565&page=12

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post #568 of 17889 Old 03-19-2013, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by metallicaband View Post

Man you're missing out on so much, please do yourself a favor and get the MGS HD collection and if you don't mind playing older games get MGS1 from PSN store too, they're all amazing games, my personal favorite is MGS3. I'd suggest even playing the older MG games, but usually people look at me funny when they see how old they are lol (1987 and 1990).

As for West vs Japanese games, even though I like western games, I can't help but notice that most of my favorite games are made in Japan, so I guess I prefer 'em by a long shot.

I've played MGS2 and 4. Those were enough for a lifetime. I think during MGS4 there was literally a point where I hadn't touched the controller for a full hour while I sat through cutscene after cutscene of the most absurd story.

Don't get me wrong, there's some stuff coming out of Japan that I still dig, I really liked child of Eden and vanquish, and the big Nintendo games still hit the spot. But JRPGs died for me when they became 50 hour plus endeavors.

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post #569 of 17889 Old 03-19-2013, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

That rumor was busted. Just a guy on a Chinese forum joking around.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=524565&page=12

Well boo. But still, if it isn't 60fps at whatever resolution, someone should get slapped in the mouth.

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post #570 of 17889 Old 03-19-2013, 01:34 PM
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I've played MGS2 and 4. Those were enough for a lifetime. I think during MGS4 there was literally a point where I hadn't touched the controller for a full hour while I sat through cutscene after cutscene of the most absurd story.
lol I can't imagine playing MGS4 and try to understand what's going on without playing the rest of the entire series, MGS3 and MGS1 are crucial to appreciate it, I literally had a file filled with papers containing notes of the story and timeline to make sure I understood all the bits and pieces before playing MGS4 lol. As much as I love playing the game, those long cut scenes are IMO what bring characters to life so I didn't really mind 'em much, but as I already said, I AM bias when it comes to MGS lol

I still enjoy JRPGs a lot, really enjoyed FFXIII and XIII-2 even though a lot of people think Square didn't create any good JRPG since they merged with Enix. Can't wait to see them unveil a new FF @ E3 as promised in the PS4 conference.

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