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post #631 of 18100 Old 03-22-2013, 03:39 AM
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Originally Posted by JukeBox360 View Post

Yeah. I didn't think of that. But then again I can't imagine why they'd need all those stores if they had the ability to push them out directly to the customers. Seems selling the console itself would be the only factor. But I don't see why that'd be to hard.

By offering retail copies they can sell the hardware at a lesser loss and count on their retail partners to push the software and hardware. Thanks to Plus the Vita physical software sales tanked hard and Sony had to give retailers better margins to keep them happy (over 50% markup on their wholesale now)

Without retail game sales, game hardware is hard to justify supporting. (as the markup is usually only 20% on average)

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post #632 of 18100 Old 03-22-2013, 03:52 AM
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Originally Posted by JukeBox360 View Post

Yeah. I didn't think of that. But then again I can't imagine why they'd need all those stores if they had the ability to push them out directly to the customers. Seems selling the console itself would be the only factor. But I don't see why that'd be to hard.

Don't underestimate the power of moms buying consoles for their kids. And I don't suppose too many kids get steam games for Xmas, because you can't wrap a download. And lots of people really like having something physical to collect (myself included). Retail is still pretty important, I'm not sure they'd ever want to go without a drive, even once they kill off used games and go always online.

What I could eventually see happen is that the boxed "standard edition" of games go away, and the only thing you can get retail are the collectors editions - which just happen to be the most expensive, collectable and giftable. Digital will be the commodity edition, and at $20 cheaper, it'll eventually feel like a deal. But that's at least 5-10 years out.

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post #633 of 18100 Old 03-22-2013, 05:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Monger View Post

Entitled Gamers, Corrupt Press, and Greedy Publishers. A great article over at gamesindustry.biz. It touches on what I ranted about earlier.

A few quotes:


I read that article earlier....I thought it was really interesting, level headed and right on the mark for the most part. The solutions proposed are pretty quaint and silly though (everyone be nice and give us more money), but even the author seems to recognize how intractable it is. I think everyone should continue to hold everyone else accountable for their screwups, despite all the noise things do change generally in a positive direction, even if its two steps forward and one step back. Some elements within the dev, press and gamer communities will need to be dragged kicking and screaming into the future, but when the dust clears it'll still be awesome.

As a counterpoint to the constant dire warnings about the state of the industry, check this out, a really deep analysis of where layoffs are really happening:

http://penny-arcade.com/report/article/na

Looks like the layoffs are mainly happening in sectors that are bloated and losing player interest (social, MMO), and in poorly received games (metacritic under 80). Console devs making great games are doing just fine.

It's just the thinning of the herd, standards are getting raised, and while I feel bad for anyone losing their job, gamers have nothing to worry about. The takeaway is clear: make better games. That doesn't sound too dire to me.

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post #634 of 18100 Old 03-22-2013, 09:03 AM
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That sounds like just about every industry in these hard times...
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post #635 of 18100 Old 03-22-2013, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Don't underestimate the power of moms buying consoles for their kids. And I don't suppose too many kids get steam games for Xmas, because you can't wrap a download. And lots of people really like having something physical to collect (myself included). Retail is still pretty important, I'm not sure they'd ever want to go without a drive, even once they kill off used games and go always online.

What I could eventually see happen is that the boxed "standard edition" of games go away, and the only thing you can get retail are the collectors editions - which just happen to be the most expensive, collectable and giftable. Digital will be the commodity edition, and at $20 cheaper, it'll eventually feel like a deal. But that's at least 5-10 years out.

lol. Didn't think of that either. But you make a very valid point.
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post #636 of 18100 Old 03-22-2013, 09:26 AM
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I think something else people forget is that the retail channel is also needed for marketing to pull in the less hardcore gamers. Not many casual gamers log in here to check out the latest games, they often find out from the display at Target or other retail outlet. They are then hit with a bevy of marketing material and the actual game they can pick up on the spot. This is called multichannel selling and is still done for CDs even though downloads are prevalent, because it adds profit.
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post #637 of 18100 Old 03-22-2013, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by ThumperII View Post

I think something else people forget is that the retail channel is also needed for marketing to pull in the less hardcore gamers. Not many casual gamers log in here to check out the latest games, they often find out from the display at Target or other retail outlet. They are then hit with a bevy of marketing material and the actual game they can pick up on the spot. This is called multichannel selling and is still done for CDs even though downloads are prevalent, because it adds profit.

Yep. I can potentially see GameStop in big trouble, just like record and movie stores are non-existent nowadays. But target will always dedicate a few aisles.

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post #638 of 18100 Old 03-22-2013, 07:58 PM
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I hope it kills Gamestop. Those bastards are the ones primarily responsible for preorder bonuses, so their demise will not be mourned by me.
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post #639 of 18100 Old 03-22-2013, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Monger View Post

You would buy the console for the right to lease games that you can only play under the right circumstances..

Yep. That's PC gaming. I look at PC gaming as a relatively long-term lease, with the caveat that at any time my ownership rights can possibly vanish.

Only reason I put up with that crap on PC, is because I wait for the games to be $5 each. At $5, it's like a rental, so I can live with all my rights being taken away. If the console world goes down that path, I don't think I'd be interested, considering the chances of their pricing model being as aggressive with the discounts is highly unlikely.

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Not if they want GameStop, target or Walmart to push and sell the PS4. The all digital future is here if you want it (and Sony wants it too), but they're still beholden to retail if they want wide exposure.

It's funny how Apple get's their cake, and they eat it too. Apple is the poster child for the all digital future, and their hardware is sold at Target and Wal-Mart and Best Buy. How does Apple get a free pass ?
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post #640 of 18100 Old 03-23-2013, 04:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

Yep. That's PC gaming. I look at PC gaming as a relatively long-term lease, with the caveat that at any time my ownership rights can possibly vanish.

Only reason I put up with that crap on PC, is because I wait for the games to be $5 each. At $5, it's like a rental, so I can live with all my rights being taken away. If the console world goes down that path, I don't think I'd be interested, considering the chances of their pricing model being as aggressive with the discounts is highly unlikely.
It's funny how Apple get's their cake, and they eat it too. Apple is the poster child for the all digital future, and their hardware is sold at Target and Wal-Mart and Best Buy. How does Apple get a free pass ?

Apple prob has a decent markup on the hardware, the consoles have almost nothing. Even if there's no software to sell, there's WAY more accessories for apple stuff, iTunes cards, headphones, docks etc. And they're apple, they have that much clout, and they have their own damn stores.

I read an interview the other day, where a Microsoft executive was asked why it takes so long for games to be released digitally, where the PS3-4 is day one. The answer was simple and direct: retail partnerships. Sony thinks they have the upper hand, MS still wants to play nice. I'm sure this Xmas, GameStop will be pushing the nextbox a lot harder.

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post #641 of 18100 Old 03-23-2013, 06:08 AM
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I will buy it once they have a decent JRPG or a similar niche title.

I bought PS3 to play Folklore (and loved it, BTW smile.gif )
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post #642 of 18100 Old 03-23-2013, 08:59 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

Yep. That's PC gaming. I look at PC gaming as a relatively long-term lease, with the caveat that at any time my ownership rights can possibly vanish.

Only reason I put up with that crap on PC, is because I wait for the games to be $5 each. At $5, it's like a rental, so I can live with all my rights being taken away. If the console world goes down that path, I don't think I'd be interested, considering the chances of their pricing model being as aggressive with the discounts is highly unlikely.
It's funny how Apple get's their cake, and they eat it too. Apple is the poster child for the all digital future, and their hardware is sold at Target and Wal-Mart and Best Buy. How does Apple get a free pass ?

Margins on Apples products are huge. They're selling a brand, not really technology, and can give their partners good enough margins that it makes sense. Plus Apple accessories are even more market up and a cash cow for retailers.

Apple gets a pass for the same reason Nintendo has the biggest section closest to the customer; they keep their partners happy and get them a cut. Sony/MS use a different model with much tighter margins and even losses on hardware. Not that they couldn't change, but it appears they're going into next gen with the same basic structure. So they have to offer their retail partners something...
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post #643 of 18100 Old 03-23-2013, 01:16 PM
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That might true on apple products like iPad or Mac books. But iPhones are sold relatively cheap for their build cost.
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post #644 of 18100 Old 03-23-2013, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JukeBox360 View Post

That might true on apple products like iPad or Mac books. But iPhones are sold relatively cheap for their build cost.

Really? I read in some place that the iPhone 4´s cost of production is lower than the iPad, but is sold to public more expensive, here in México the "cheapest" iPhone 5 (16 g) costs like $850 and the "cheapest" iPad 4 (32g) costs $650, the words Iphone and cheap are never used in the same sentence.cool.gif
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post #645 of 18100 Old 03-23-2013, 02:59 PM
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I'm talking prices with new contract.
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post #646 of 18100 Old 03-23-2013, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by JukeBox360 View Post

That might true on apple products like iPad or Mac books. But iPhones are sold relatively cheap for their build cost.

According to this analysis, a 16GB iPhone 5 costs $199 to build, while it's sold for $649 (without a contract).
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post #647 of 18100 Old 03-23-2013, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by JukeBox360 View Post

I'm talking prices with new contract.

^^^
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Originally Posted by TedSeattle View Post

According to this analysis, a 16GB iPhone 5 costs $199 to build, while it's sold for $649 (without a contract).
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post #648 of 18100 Old 03-23-2013, 08:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by JukeBox360 View Post

I'm talking prices with new contract.

Which makes carrier more money by locking them into $1500-$2000 worth of service charges, or a large fee to break the contract and buy back your discount?

Yeah, they make out both ways.

You don't really get a discount with a contract, you get locked into a service and end up paying more over time. It why a lot of people are looking at the numerous pay as you go services popping up, because they're finding it cheaper to pay full price for their phone up front and pay for the services they really use which ends up being cheaper over the same time. They end up saving over 2 years, and aren't locked down.
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post #649 of 18100 Old 03-23-2013, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

Which makes carrier more money by locking them into $1500-$2000 worth of service charges, or a large fee to break the contract and buy back your discount?

Yeah, they make out both ways.

You don't really get a discount with a contract, you get locked into a service and end up paying more over time. It why a lot of people are looking at the numerous pay as you go services popping up, because they're finding it cheaper to pay full price for their phone up front and pay for the services they really use which ends up being cheaper over the same time. They end up saving over 2 years, and aren't locked down.
I'm paying for a service regardless of the phone. Might as well get a phone while I'm at it.
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post #650 of 18100 Old 03-24-2013, 09:38 AM
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I'll be switching to a pay as you go phone as my bill doubled after the first year of my contract, and new contracts are almost as high as my current inflated rate. Never again will I go with a contract phone.

$300 per phone plus $45 a month ($70 total) is a lot better than $150 a month for two phones for two years.

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post #651 of 18100 Old 03-24-2013, 10:43 AM
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PS4
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post #652 of 18100 Old 03-24-2013, 03:20 PM
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I'll be switching to a pay as you go phone as my bill doubled after the first year of my contract, and new contracts are almost as high as my current inflated rate. Never again will I go with a contract phone.

$300 per phone plus $45 a month ($70 total) is a lot better than $150 a month for two phones for two years.
What? 4 phones for $180 is what I'm paying. $150 for two is nuts.
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post #653 of 18100 Old 03-24-2013, 04:26 PM
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What? 4 phones for $180 is what I'm paying. $150 for two is nuts.

At&t sucks for pricing once that first year is up. I don't even have texting on one of them since I barely text. ($20 to add unlimited texting) Going prepaid is a no brainer and it is also why I will never do a contract plan for anything, consoles included.

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post #654 of 18100 Old 03-24-2013, 04:28 PM
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Sounds like they are trying to pull a fast one on you. My bill hasn't gone up since day 1. It's actually gotten lower from when I 1st joined em.
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post #655 of 18100 Old 03-24-2013, 04:52 PM
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PS4
yeah
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post #656 of 18100 Old 03-24-2013, 05:39 PM
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How did the PS4 thread turn into an iPhone thread? Turkey bacon. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

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post #657 of 18100 Old 03-24-2013, 05:44 PM
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PS4

what about the PS4? wink.gif
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post #658 of 18100 Old 03-24-2013, 09:04 PM
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Back on topic; maybe an October or before launch for PS4?

http://www.techradar.com/us/news/gaming/consoles/ps4-release-date-news-and-rumours-937822
Quote:
However, in an interview with editor of Outside Xbox and TechRadar contributor, Mike Channell, Assassin's Creed 4 boss Gene Guesdon hinted in March that his game would launch on all platforms simultaneously... at the end of October this year.
Now, obviously for a game to launch on a next-gen console, that next-gen console is going to have to be on sale. So the natural assumption is that the PS4 release date will be October.
When discussing the PS4 and the next Xbox, Guesdon said: "We have a strong engine and we are always pushing the limits so this year again we are ready to support such new capacities, new abilities so the game will be ready for that but also you know we make it for current gen obviously from a starting point," said Guesdon.
At that, Channell asked, "Is there going to be any delay in the versions or are they all going to release at the same time?"
"Same ship" was the definitive response.
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post #659 of 18100 Old 03-24-2013, 10:18 PM
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E3 may hold a surprise launch announcement for this fall... It would help explain why they expect to sell 16 million by March 31st 2014...

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post #660 of 18100 Old 03-24-2013, 11:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Nothing is stopping Ubisoft from shipping next-gen AC4 before PS4's launch. But I do hope the console releases sooner than later.

Los Angeles Lakers - 16 NBA Championships!

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