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post #6661 of 18100 Old 10-22-2013, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

honestly, if this 720p thing is for real on XB1, it does Playstation lovers no good. In fact, if it was a scenario in which this isn't just a launch issue, and it prolongs into the coming years, this would be an absolute disaster for everybody involved in gaming, including PS4 owners. The 3rd parties aren't going to code to the PS4 spec, and then work hard to get the game to run somehow on XB1. They are going to code to XB1, and then port up to PS4.

this would be very bad news for PS4 owners.

So, there should be no celebration from any Sony fanboys in this, because we all lose.


Having said all of that, it's my guess that this isn't going to be a long term problem. So, I'm not really concerned about it. (not yet...)

This makes perfect sense in theory,

but you can ask Sega, 3DO, Neo Geo, Atari, perhaps even Nintendo what happens when you don't have leading spec hardware?

I never saw entire games toned down to suit the lower end specs of weaker consoles.

Sure weaker consoles have always had weaker versions and always will, but as I remember, the stronger consoles have always had the stronger versions.

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post #6662 of 18100 Old 10-22-2013, 11:59 PM
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All multiplats are being built on PC now and are just scaled down for consoles. All console versions will be dumbed down, just a matter of how much it will need to be dumbed down to work on the hardware.

No PS4 games will be held back by the PS3, 360, Wii U, or Xbox One. There is no reason to do so, they will simply spend just enough time to get the game running on each console they plan on supporting.

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post #6663 of 18100 Old 10-23-2013, 04:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

honestly, if this 720p thing is for real on XB1, it does Playstation lovers no good. In fact, if it was a scenario in which this isn't just a launch issue, and it prolongs into the coming years, this would be an absolute disaster for everybody involved in gaming, including PS4 owners. The 3rd parties aren't going to code to the PS4 spec, and then work hard to get the game to run somehow on XB1. They are going to code to XB1, and then port up to PS4.

this would be very bad news for PS4 owners.

So, there should be no celebration from any Sony fanboys in this, because we all lose.

Having said all of that, it's my guess that this isn't going to be a long term problem. So, I'm not really concerned about it. (not yet...)

This is only bad for XB1 supporters . You wrongly assume that they are coding for the weaker console first which is already proven false. Of all the Multiplat releases there is a reason that you are seeing the PS4 Versions first each and every time and that is because it is easier to code and faster to complete and the games look better when complete.

Part of the reason that the XB1 is generally lower resolution is the power difference but another part is the additional coding effort that the XB1 requires. So currently Sony coders are getting the benefit of using most all of its power with very little effort .

The good news for XB1 fans is that ports should only get better as the coders get more familiar with the hardware. If COD really is at 720P on XB1 then I think that is purely a coding issue , there is no reason that at least 900p shouldn't be able to be reached on a game like COD

This is part of the reason I am not getting an XB1 at launch, I buy mostly Multiplats and I will get the ones which look and run best which means PS4. MS has a lot of work to do on their system from software to recovering power from the hardware. So the first year+ is going to be a huge effort on their part to squeeze what they can out of what they have available. They will never reach parity with the PS4 but we'll have to see how close they can get . In the meantime I don't plan on getting sucked into purchasing weaker hardware because of paid exclusives (timed or otherwise) .

Many people are not getting PS4 or XB1 at launch and will likely get on next summer or next holiday season so they have some time to try to close the gap as much as possible and if they are unable to do so they will jsut continue to loose more people.
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post #6664 of 18100 Old 10-23-2013, 05:38 AM
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No, the 360 headsets (most) have a dongle that with a mic jack, not a mic plug. So it needs male-to-male cord. Thanks.
I'll look around now that I'm on a computer browser.

I guess you are talking about the stock ones. I have the TB XC1 and the adapter I listed seems like it will work.


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post #6665 of 18100 Old 10-23-2013, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

honestly, if this 720p thing is for real on XB1, it does Playstation lovers no good. In fact, if it was a scenario in which this isn't just a launch issue, and it prolongs into the coming years, this would be an absolute disaster for everybody involved in gaming, including PS4 owners. The 3rd parties aren't going to code to the PS4 spec, and then work hard to get the game to run somehow on XB1. They are going to code to XB1, and then port up to PS4.

this would be very bad news for PS4 owners.

So, there should be no celebration from any Sony fanboys in this, because we all lose.


Having said all of that, it's my guess that this isn't going to be a long term problem. So, I'm not really concerned about it. (not yet...)
If its true and thats a big if, then in this case the PS4 version will not be gimped as COD: Ghost has already been confirmed to be 1080P/60 on the PS4. With the deals that MS and Activision have together securing first release of DLC on the xbox, I am surprised that they didn't gimp the PS4 version of Ghost.

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post #6666 of 18100 Old 10-23-2013, 06:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

honestly, if this 720p thing is for real on XB1, it does Playstation lovers no good. In fact, if it was a scenario in which this isn't just a launch issue, and it prolongs into the coming years, this would be an absolute disaster for everybody involved in gaming, including PS4 owners. The 3rd parties aren't going to code to the PS4 spec, and then work hard to get the game to run somehow on XB1. They are going to code to XB1, and then port up to PS4.

this would be very bad news for PS4 owners. So, there should be no celebration from any Sony fanboys in this, because we all lose.

Having said all of that, it's my guess that this isn't going to be a long term problem. So, I'm not really concerned about it. (not yet...)

Maybe. But if this rumor is true about the res downgrade, it lends credence to the previous rumors that it only took IW a month to get the game base ported and running at 1080P and 90 FPS on PS4, while it took 4 months with severe performance issues on XBone.

It seems to be becoming clearer that for whatever reason, hardware or support, Sony has a significant edge at helping developers getting their code running quickly. That translated into less time and money for ports, and much more time to optimize code and make their games less bug free or efficient. Not everyone will do so, and just pocket the time/cost savings; but competition to sell videogames is fierce in the current golden age of gaming, and not putting out the best product you could can really cost developers and publishers big bucks. Especially if fans find you dogging it.

Cerny wasn’t lying about 1-3 month time to triangle or the deep network of developer support he pushed for apparently. And it’s showing. I’d also point out that the old paradigm might not be the case anymore, since Sony is getting praise for having both the more powerful hardware AND the system easier to developer for. In just about every generation past the more powerful machine also tended to be the harder machine to code for due to powerful new, but convoluted custom architectures. I believe the only exception was the OG Xbox / PS2, but by the time the Xbox launched late to the party Sony already had a dominance of market share and a few years of institutional knowledge across the industry on how to program specifically for their convoluted emotion engine. Quite a few Xbox games still showed better performance and graphics, but since the power bump wasn’t very great being a 0.5 gen increase and they were late to the party, there wasn’t much focus on differentiating games. Basically the same issue the WiiU is seeing now in comparison to current gen.

I do agree though that if the problems are much worse than rumored, it's bad news for gamers as a whole. Competition is good, and if MS fails miserably it will rock the already shaky industry.
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post #6667 of 18100 Old 10-23-2013, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by William Mapstone View Post

If its true and thats a big if, then in this case the PS4 version will not be gimped as COD: Ghost has already been confirmed to be 1080P/60 on the PS4. With the deals that MS and Activision have together securing first release of DLC on the xbox, I am surprised that they didn't gimp the PS4 version of Ghost.

I wouldn't be too quick to say the PS4 was running at 1080P "Native" The word we received was that it was running at 1080P and looking at the jaggies on the corners of the buildings and the overall soft look it may very well be an unscaled 720P or 900P as well. . I'll believe it when I see the word Native along side.
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post #6668 of 18100 Old 10-23-2013, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

The 3rd parties aren't going to code to the PS4 spec, and then work hard to get the game to run somehow on XB1. They are going to code to XB1, and then port up to PS4.

That is based on previous cell architecture of ps3 making ps3 to 360 apples and oranges, so Devs just chose one. In this case, it's just one has V6 instead of V4

...so I completely disagree.

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post #6669 of 18100 Old 10-23-2013, 06:07 AM
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I don't think it'll be bad for ps4 owners at all, the easier development on the ps4 means it will be lead platform. Then everything will be decreased in quality for the xbone. If the install bases are disparent enough, which given preorder numbers they very might well be; we will get something similar to the ps2 generation where games won't even be developed for the Xbox at all. That is actually the best case scenario for gamers overall. MS have demonstrated that they are poisonous to hobby.
Ha, I find it hilarious that you think like this.

Lack of competition will only hurt us and bring us back to conceited/overconfident Sony. Why do you think Apple didn't drop the price on the new iPad Minis (they raised them!)? Because they have 81% of the tablet market. Do you think Madden would be having such iterative releases if they had competitors like the old days?

It will be good if Sony has a healthy lead which results in getting more exclusives and a more diverse table of games, but if they blow the Xbox One out of the water, then we will all suffer.
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post #6670 of 18100 Old 10-23-2013, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by samendolaro View Post

I wouldn't be too quick to say the PS4 was running at 1080P "Native" The word we received was that it was running at 1080P and looking at the jaggies on the corners of the buildings and the overall soft look it may very well be an unscaled 720P or 900P as well. . I'll believe it when I see the word Native along side.
For these purposes, that is exactly what they are talking about. The Xbox One can scale any source to 1080p as well.

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post #6671 of 18100 Old 10-23-2013, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by samendolaro View Post

I wouldn't be too quick to say the PS4 was running at 1080P "Native" The word we received was that it was running at 1080P and looking at the jaggies on the corners of the buildings and the overall soft look it may very well be an unscaled 720P or 900P as well. . I'll believe it when I see the word Native along side.
Well this whole internet fight is dependent on the fact that someone claimed that it was running at 1080P.... so that would be F'ing histarical if they meant upscaled! Personally I doubt they meant upscaled, as that would be clearly misleading.... most displays these days are 1080P and have to upscale any signal that is fed to them.

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post #6672 of 18100 Old 10-23-2013, 06:15 AM
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That's why I laugh at these post that believe outside of forums and Neogaf that if the game is 720p that the game will be affected by sales because of all things resolution. Again if this was the factor the PC version of games should have been the best selling version for all these years., Oh and the current gen versions should just drop in sales because they are 600p rolleyes.gif
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post #6673 of 18100 Old 10-23-2013, 06:29 AM
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Ha, I find it hilarious that you think like this.

Lack of competition will only hurt us and bring us back to conceited/overconfident Sony. Why do you think Apple didn't drop the price on the new iPad Minis (they raised them!)? Because they have 81% of the tablet market. Do you think Madden would be having such iterative releases if they had competitors like the old days?

It will be good if Sony has a healthy lead which results in getting more exclusives and a more diverse table of games, but if they blow the Xbox One out of the water, then we will all suffer.

I disagree. Even if MS was to bow out of the console market there would still be competition, and someone else is likely to step into the arena, be it Valve, Apple or Google or someone else entirely. I'd much rather see Nintendo make a comeback.

You guys realise all these people making claims are insiders and developers right? Cboat, Thuway, FamousMortimer, Ravidrath, Bish. You know people that would know.
And at this stage isn't just COD it's across the board, all multiplatforms and even 1st party games are showing it.
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post #6674 of 18100 Old 10-23-2013, 06:57 AM
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http://www.dualshockers.com/2013/10/23/psn-claims-battlefield-4-is-1080p-on-ps4-requires-1080p-native-display/


Looks like BF4 may now be running in 1080P native as well. Pretty thin but the jump from 900 to 1080 wasn't a huge one
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post #6675 of 18100 Old 10-23-2013, 07:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by samendolaro View Post

I wouldn't be too quick to say the PS4 was running at 1080P "Native" The word we received was that it was running at 1080P and looking at the jaggies on the corners of the buildings and the overall soft look it may very well be an unscaled 720P or 900P as well. . I'll believe it when I see the word Native along side.

That’s the whole point, Xbone is running lower res games across the board and scaling them to 1080P same as current generation. Penello and the Ryse Devs made a deflecting comment as much and got skewered for it. Sure you could always output 720 native and have your TV do it, but it introduces input lag and TV scalers tend not to be as good as the ones in these systems.

Aliasing happens on every and all games due to the nature of computer graphics and display technology. Anti-aliasing helps take care of it, at a cost of IQ or performance. But a lack of AA post processing isn’t an issue of resolution, as it’s always there.

AA shows up more on games with smaller native resolutions because there’s less pixel information to show lines. 1080P is still in the range where aliasing is noticeable, but it’s starting to get to the point where at a good viewing distance it’s diminished. So if PS4 COD is running 1080P with little to no AA, you’re going to see it regardless. But I can promise you it’ll look much worse at 720P.

If we could get 4K games on a 4K TV aliasing would be so small at living room viewing distances, it barely be noticeable besides the artifacts or pixel shimmering. But it’s still there. And you still need post processing, or down sampling to get rid of it.
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post #6676 of 18100 Old 10-23-2013, 07:11 AM
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I disagree. Even if MS was to bow out of the console market there would still be competition, and someone else is likely to step into the arena, be it Valve, Apple or Google or someone else entirely. I'd much rather see Nintendo make a comeback.

History seems to disagree with you on this. Sony made a major blunder with the introduction of the PS3. MS has shown some of this arrogance with the One after claiming success with the 360. Nintendo ruled the market with an iron fist for years as the only really viable platform. They parlayed that confidence into giving the market lead to Sony. Also, Nintendo made their comeback with the Wii and look what they did with it. We got the WiiU. They didn't understand what drove the casual market and made a major misstep. Now they're paying for it. I highly doubt Apple is interested in anything other than maybe a game playing Apple TV. Same for Google. Steambox could possibly shake things up but frankly I see that as a different market to console games. You would hope Sony wouldn't fall back into old ways but come on, this happens over and over and over again. Lack of competition lessens the desire for a market leader to keep innovating. I'm not saying it can't happen but at this point the only thing driving these two companies (Sony and MS) to give us a better product is each other.
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post #6677 of 18100 Old 10-23-2013, 07:26 AM
 
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That's why I laugh at these post that believe outside of forums and Neogaf that if the game is 720p that the game will be affected by sales because of all things resolution. Again if this was the factor the PC version of games should have been the best selling version for all these years., Oh and the current gen versions should just drop in sales because they are 600p rolleyes.gif

Differences this last Gen undoubtedly shifted preferences and sales, and they were much smaller differences than 720P to 1080P.

You can’t have it both ways, especially when products are going head to head.

As for rumors, you laugh but those people have been racking up confirmed facts left and right. CBoat brought us the entire XBOne E3 presentation months beforehand.

Sure, they may be wrong this time, or may be being fed false info to route them out, but they’re passing on info that has been correct so far. That gives them some credibility that the PR heads lack. Just because you don’t like it, doesn’t mean you can write them off.
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post #6678 of 18100 Old 10-23-2013, 07:32 AM
 
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History seems to disagree with you on this. Sony made a major blunder with the introduction of the PS3. MS has shown some of this arrogance with the One after claiming success with the 360. Nintendo ruled the market with an iron fist for years as the only really viable platform. They parlayed that confidence into giving the market lead to Sony. Also, Nintendo made their comeback with the Wii and look what they did with it. We got the WiiU. They didn't understand what drove the casual market and made a major misstep. Now they're paying for it. I highly doubt Apple is interested in anything other than maybe a game playing Apple TV. Same for Google. Steambox could possibly shake things up but frankly I see that as a different market to console games. You would hope Sony wouldn't fall back into old ways but come on, this happens over and over and over again. Lack of competition lessens the desire for a market leader to keep innovating. I'm not saying it can't happen but at this point the only thing driving these two companies (Sony and MS) to give us a better product is each other.

Agree there, MS did do their 180 after all due to pressure from fanboys, fans, and hardcore gamers alike. They saw the storm and changed course. They still have a long way to go to rebuild the brand and win back trust though, so the ball is really in their court. Focusing on brining great games and new IP’s and services to their customers is going to be key. But if they continue the BS and doublespeak, it might not end nicely for them.

I mean when the Xbox PR guys are saying they’ll never use your personal data for general marketing then the guy in charge of the marketing division gives a keynote on how Kinect opens up a world of possibility for data mining; you have a credibility problem on top of all your old problems.

Gamers revolted at the hand and vision MS wanted to force on the console industry. They got a lot of work to do to prove that they’ve really dropped that failed vision, and not just postponed it.
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post #6679 of 18100 Old 10-23-2013, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

honestly, if this 720p thing is for real on XB1, it does Playstation lovers no good. In fact, if it was a scenario in which this isn't just a launch issue, and it prolongs into the coming years, this would be an absolute disaster for everybody involved in gaming, including PS4 owners. The 3rd parties aren't going to code to the PS4 spec, and then work hard to get the game to run somehow on XB1. They are going to code to XB1, and then port up to PS4.

this would be very bad news for PS4 owners.

So, there should be no celebration from any Sony fanboys in this, because we all lose.


Having said all of that, it's my guess that this isn't going to be a long term problem. So, I'm not really concerned about it. (not yet...)

I disagree with this. Last gen they made games for the easier system to code for which was the XB360 and ported to the PS3. With the upcoming gen being that the PS4 is the easier console to code for I don't see why you think games will be made for the XBone and ported to the PS4.

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post #6680 of 18100 Old 10-23-2013, 07:59 AM
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Differences this last Gen undoubtedly shifted preferences and sales, and they were much smaller differences than 720P to 1080P.

You can’t have it both ways, especially when products are going head to head.

As for rumors, you laugh but those people have been racking up confirmed facts left and right. CBoat brought us the entire XBOne E3 presentation months beforehand.

Sure, they may be wrong this time, or may be being fed false info to route them out, but they’re passing on info that has been correct so far. That gives them some credibility that the PR heads lack. Just because you don’t like it, doesn’t mean you can write them off.

Of course when it comes to negative news everyone rides that horse that it is true but if it is something positive like it is complete BS through and through. Resolution won't effect sales of a game and this has been true with the current gen of all 3 systems. To suggest this wil be the case because we have new hardware is getting just as silly as believing hardcore gamers make or break a system. Someone point me to the actual definition of a hardcore gamer and not someone's opinion of what it means.

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post #6682 of 18100 Old 10-23-2013, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by zBuff View Post

That is actually the best case scenario for gamers overall. MS have demonstrated that they are poisonous to hobby.
This right here may be the dumbest thing I have ever read on this board. While hardcore PS gamers may hate MS, you have to know that they pushed some things forward for the industry. They made connecting to the internet a big thing for their console, and pushed the social side of gaming with Xbox Live. They introduced achievements, which translated into trophies for the PS3. And they made the big push to get indies front and center on their consoles, something Sony is going after hard. Say what you want about them, but the gaming world is actually a better place with Sony and Microsoft involved.

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post #6683 of 18100 Old 10-23-2013, 08:23 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mboojigga View Post

Of course when it comes to negative news everyone rides that horse that it is true but if it is something positive like it is complete BS through and through. Resolution won't effect sales of a game and this has been true with the current gen of all 3 systems. To suggest this wil be the case because we have new hardware is getting just as silly as believing hardcore gamers make or break a system. Someone point me to the actual definition of a hardcore gamer and not someone's opinion of what it means.

I don’t think people walked away from game purchases completely, but it did lead to the much higher attach rate for 3rd party games on the 360 that can’t just be attributed to the US/UK lead. That’s money for shareholders and capital investments, and 3rd parties do make marketing and support decisions based on it. Many, many console gamers because dual/all system owners eventually and went for the “best version”.

As for hardcore gamers, sure they’re important. They’re the early adopters and social media marketers. Hardcore Gamers just got MS to completely drop their 1 billion dollar plans for the XBone and change direction, sacrificing many new revenue streams they were planning for due to digital DRM, always online, and kinect connectivity. Sounds pretty influential to me when you realize the dollars and cents at stake.

Hardcore tend to be the year one buyers, and you need them for sales, support, and social marketing to get a new product off the ground and get developers behind it. Ask Nintendo.
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Originally Posted by americangunner View Post

This right here may be the dumbest thing I have ever read on this board. While hardcore PS gamers may hate MS, you have to know that they pushed some things forward for the industry. They made connecting to the internet a big thing for their console, and pushed the social side of gaming with Xbox Live. They introduced achievements, which translated into trophies for the PS3. And they made the big push to get indies front and center on their consoles, something Sony is going after hard. Say what you want about them, but the gaming world is actually a better place with Sony and Microsoft involved.

Yeah, that’s too far. But I do think their original vision for how they wanted to shape the console market going into next gen was deeply troubling and flawed. Gamers revolted at that and rightly so.

Personally I’ve always worried MS would try to pull that knowing their corporate culture. Sure enough once the OG Xbox people were all gone, it’s exactly where they tried to go. Competition is good, and probably saved them from making a mistake, and console gamers from a rather nickel and dimed future. And the old guys at Xbox did really more the market forward in social and online features when Sony was providing a network adaptor as an under-supported accessory, and then stumbling their way forward with PSN.
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post #6684 of 18100 Old 10-23-2013, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by mboojigga View Post

Of course when it comes to negative news everyone rides that horse that it is true but if it is something positive like it is complete BS through and through. Resolution won't effect sales of a game and this has been true with the current gen of all 3 systems. To suggest this wil be the case because we have new hardware is getting just as silly as believing hardcore gamers make or break a system. Someone point me to the actual definition of a hardcore gamer and not someone's opinion of what it means.

If you have already purchased a console and a game that you want comes out at a lower resolution I agree that game sales will not suffer.. Once you have already made that $500 investment your options are limited . The majority of people will buy one console and whatever games become available they will buy based upon game content and not resolution.

On the other-hand this is not your typical situation, no one owns a console yet and no ones options are limited, so news like this is more likely to delay or dissuade someone from purchasing an XB1 to begin with then anything else. If the majority of XB1 games are going to be 720p and 900p and the majority of PS4 games are 1080p then someone needs to make that conscience decision of what console they are about to purchase and what it may mean for all of their future game purchases.
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post #6685 of 18100 Old 10-23-2013, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Smigro View Post

I guess you are talking about the stock ones. I have the TB XC1 and the adapter I listed seems like it will work.


I apologize for assuming. I understand your setup now.
This below is also a popular 360 headset, the best value/quality IMO.

Dongle has a 2.5mm standard mic jack, so a male-to-male cable connects to 360 controller jack.

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post #6686 of 18100 Old 10-23-2013, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Cravit8 View Post

I apologize for assuming. I understand your setup now.
This below is also a popular 360 headset, the best value/quality IMO.

Dongle has a 2.5mm standard mic jack, so a male-to-male cable connects to 360 controller jack.
ok, I see now. I have thought about getting one of those headsets, but I have a hard time justifying it with thousands of dollars worth of AV gear in my room and not worried about it being too loud for the most part.

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post #6687 of 18100 Old 10-23-2013, 09:47 AM
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New add that is very well done. I can't get the embedding to work.

PlayStation: The Best Place #4ThePlayers to Play
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1KFlyzsDdU&feature=youtu.be
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post #6688 of 18100 Old 10-23-2013, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by RemoWilliams84 View Post

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamer#Hardcore_gamer smile.gif

biggrin.gif Thanks for that so as usual we have 20 different definitions depending on who u talk to describing who is "hardcore". Nothing to do with resolution or specs. Bottom line it will be the games and gameplay that trump and 720p 1080p won't matter if the "hardcore" gamer only has a 720p display anyway. Or prefers one controller,network and friends over the other.

The 5.0 is here
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post #6689 of 18100 Old 10-23-2013, 10:32 AM
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It is all trade offs anyways, having 720p instead of 1080p means you can do more in other aspects (texture quality, physics, items on screen). Mandating 1080p would be a bad, I'm glad that hasn't happened.

I know that is different in regards to if COD is 1080p on one console 720p on the other, assuming all other aspects are the same in those rumors.
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post #6690 of 18100 Old 10-23-2013, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

All multiplats are being built on PC now and are just scaled down for consoles. All console versions will be dumbed down, just a matter of how much it will need to be dumbed down to work on the hardware.

No PS4 games will be held back by the PS3, 360, Wii U, or Xbox One. There is no reason to do so, they will simply spend just enough time to get the game running on each console they plan on supporting.

So did this get confirmed or are people still guessing?

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