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post #7561 of 17299 Old 11-04-2013, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAMABLUHD View Post

I don't see how that's true. Once the consoles are released and a company that fixes hardware releases their report, try pricing the individual components yourself. Both consoles look like well appointed computer by todays standards. The costs of parts alone likely top $500. Saying that, yes, the costs will go down over time, but trust me that they are each taking a loss.

Remember to also factor in R&D. I have no idea of the calculation of man hours in designing these machines, but it took at least 4 years and I would imagine a few hundred million each.

I stand by my earlier post on the refresh cycle.

I don't see how it changes anything. 3 years from now the base PS4 will be quite profitable, and with the install base already established, there's no reason to take a loss at all on the PS4.5, they could mark it up a solid $100 or more. The people interested in such a thing wouldn't be price sensitive anyway, it doesn't need to be mass market...that's what the PS4 is for.

The R&D will be relatively minor - same OS, same controller, vast majority of components are the same. They could probably even reuse the same box design if they wanted to.

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post #7562 of 17299 Old 11-04-2013, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samendolaro View Post

I didn't hear that they took a loss though, the PS4's GPU and Memory is where the $ went for sony. Looking at the Xbox architecture they really don't have anything else, My bet is that the XB1 is not selling at a loss.

Not afraid to admit when I'm wrong, first time for everything smile.gif

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2013/09/06/at-500-microsoft-says-the-xbox-one-will-break-even-or-make-a-profit/
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post #7563 of 17299 Old 11-04-2013, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by RemoWilliams84 View Post

Not afraid to admit when I'm wrong, first time for everything smile.gif

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2013/09/06/at-500-microsoft-says-the-xbox-one-will-break-even-or-make-a-profit/

Its really telling that if the PS4 was selling at $499 it would be in the same boat as MS even though MS included the kinect.
Even with all of the Revenue generation aspects of the Xb1 MS wasn't willing to match sony in price.
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post #7564 of 17299 Old 11-04-2013, 12:28 PM
 
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Last I heard Sony is just about breaking even at $399 (small loss), and is actually making a profit in most of the EU due to the price/currency differences.

Cerny was given a hard ceiling of $399, but stuffed as much tech in as possible for the price with the idea of also including the camera back when they were targeting 2-5GB. Then the 8GB bomb pushed it over and Sony decided dropping the camera was a better idea than forcing it and keeping only 4GB of RAM.

Seeing as they can always include in in a SKU later and it gives them more time to figure out why people should need it (and market it), good call I’d say.
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post #7565 of 17299 Old 11-04-2013, 12:55 PM
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Alright guys, need some opinions. I use GameFly and I subscribe to the 2 out plan and need some help deciding which 2 games should be my first rentals. I've already purchased BF4 and Knack from the PSN Store so, those are off the table. Here are my final four that I've narrowed it down to:

Killzone
AC4
Need for Speed Rivals
NBA 2K14

KZ looks pretty but, beyond that, I haven't been a huge fan of the series and since I'm already getting BF4, not sure how mush attention I'd give to another FPS. I usually love adventure/action games but, like KZ, the AC series just has not held my interest much. This one though is about pirates and I'm a sucker for pirates and the sea battles look like fun. I honestly have never played a NFS game and I'm generally not much of a racing fan, especially sim racing games like Forza or GT. I suck at them so I just avoid them but, the trailers look interesting and the graphics look good. Same goes for NBA 2K, not an NBA fan at all but the graphics look good and I'd love to try out a sports game (the EA games all look like current gen games with a little next gen spit shine, don't want to waste my time with that).

If you could rent 2 at a time, which 2 would you get?

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post #7566 of 17299 Old 11-04-2013, 01:01 PM
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I would probably go for KZ and AC:BF since IMO those two games will be the best eye candy for the PS4.
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post #7567 of 17299 Old 11-04-2013, 01:10 PM
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Killzone and 2k14. Killzone for the visuals and 2k14 for the visuals + it's just an awesome game.

2k sports redid the engine for next gen and it shows.

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post #7568 of 17299 Old 11-04-2013, 01:17 PM
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Can just put all four in and get the mystery box. GF just shipped me COD Ghosts. Had my list narrowed down to Ghosts or KZ and I'm surprised I got Ghosts. Would have thought it would be booked a lot further out. Sad thing is I tossed it on my list yesterday in case KZ was not available...so much for getting KZ and ditching GF.
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post #7569 of 17299 Old 11-04-2013, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by lordxar5 View Post

Can just put all four in and get the mystery box. GF just shipped me COD Ghosts. Had my list narrowed down to Ghosts or KZ and I'm surprised I got Ghosts. Would have thought it would be booked a lot further out. Sad thing is I tossed it on my list yesterday in case KZ was not available...so much for getting KZ and ditching GF.

You're already getting ps4 games from gf? I need to ship back Arkham Origins which I never even put in the disk tray (can't get excited about non-next gen) and see if I can get a couple of ps4/xb1 games.

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post #7570 of 17299 Old 11-04-2013, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cravit8 View Post

Mark it, I'm calling it, PS5 in Q4 2016.

There's not a prayer of that three years from now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cravit8 View Post

A game made for PS4/PS5 doesn't mean the PS4 has reduced graphics, that's nonsensical. Several posters have stated that idea.

There is a clearly a general misunderstanding of scalability.

I still think a nice looking Atari 2600 game can qualify as having nice looking graphics.

But if a PS4.5 releases and games appear on both, I won't be satisfied with my PS4 since I know they perform and look better on the PS4.5. So there's no way I'd subscribe to this being a good idea.

Replace the system when it's been pushed close to its limits and is starting to restrain developer creativity and customers are itching for something new. Not when there's lots of room for growth which most assuredly will be the situation in three years time.

A console reboot just for the sake of it doesn't make any sense.
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Well, good luck ignoring the steambox then, assuming it lives up to the hype.

I probably won't have too much of a problem in my case. PC gaming is where I go for experiences I can't get on a console. Online first person shooters with precise keyboard/mouse control, real time strategy games with a mouse and keyboard for shortcut commands, flight simulators with things like my Saitek X-52 and rudder pedals, true racing simulations like iRacing with a nice racing setup, a few classic PC games like Sim City 3000, Half-Life, and Titanic Adventures Out of Time.

So a traditional desktop PC will be what I stick with and a console like PC probably won't be too big of a draw for me. And I'm extremely skeptical of the controller (If the controller wasn't from Valve, I'd have no doubt it stunk but since it is from Valve I'll concede it has a slim chance of being a good idea).

I'll just play those games on full consoles. Especially since I value physical media for console games.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NuSoardGraphite View Post

That "better experience" is subjective though. many of the multiplats released on the ps2 were significantly superior on the xbox and vastly superior on a high-end gaming rig, but i didnt notice because i never saw any of those other versions,

Usually they were better (As were GameCube versions). But not usually by much. Slightly better looking, perhaps a slightly improved frame rate, maybe more online integration, more likely to have progressive scan and/or 16:9, and slight loading decreases thanks to the hard drive. But it was usually an extremely close race.

The PS2 was so dominant that it was typically the lead console version of a particular project which often constrained the GCN and Xbox versions since they were PS2 ports rather than built from the ground up for the more capable hardware.
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post #7571 of 17299 Old 11-04-2013, 01:30 PM
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Yup, they said it shipped today. Now when I receive it...

On a side note, I can buy it for $59.99 or keep it for $44.99??? Half tempted to keep it and trade it off if that price is accurate.
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post #7572 of 17299 Old 11-04-2013, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordxar5 View Post

Yup, they said it shipped today. Now when I receive it...

On a side note, I can buy it for $59.99 or keep it for $44.99??? Half tempted to keep it and trade it off if that price is accurate.

Ha, I've done some gamefly flips when I can buy a game for $30 and have two $5 off coupons saved up. I'll buy it, then sell it to amazon/gamestop if they have a trade in deal going and make a good $20.

I don't even know why. It's not worth the hassle, but I feel like I've really accomplished something. Hell, I don't even bother with ordering XBL/PSN cards for cheap online. I just purchase them for full price through the console.

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post #7573 of 17299 Old 11-04-2013, 01:44 PM
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Its the little victories!
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post #7574 of 17299 Old 11-04-2013, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordxar5 View Post

Get a grip for it, makes all the difference in the world. I still only play mine a little at a time but its a lot more comfortable. I'm impatient so I went to GS and got the Sony one but the Nyko is supposed to be awesome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blastermaster View Post

I bought one for my kids and they love it. Get the Nyko Power Grip - it will add 5 hours of play time and it has a really nice rubbery-ish coating which prevents it from slipping out of your hands. There's a knockoff version that doesn't have a built-in battery - skip that one.

Thanks..Looks like Nyko it is...
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post #7575 of 17299 Old 11-04-2013, 02:42 PM
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post #7576 of 17299 Old 11-04-2013, 05:00 PM
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Sessler's Youtube channel had a Resogun Livestream. Made me really want the game even more. Less than 2 weeks!!!

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post #7577 of 17299 Old 11-04-2013, 06:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samendolaro View Post

So I got my Vita on Friday..

I can say this for sure... I am old, this confirms it..... May need some bifocals and my hands are still getting used to the form factor. (the noticeable arthritic grip after play is over)

Overall a quick learning curve of frustration with PS+ and the menu system but after you get that down it is pretty smooth. PS+ has about 6 free games already but my biggest problem is the memory. even with the included 4gb card You may only get 1 or 2 games on it .

Ended up ordering the 64gb card, that should get me everything I need . Overall a pretty nice unit. Can't wait to link this to the PS4 in a couple weeks. Looks like I'll be picking up a vita-TV as well when they hit the US

Congrats! The Nyko PowerGrip should be your next purchase, if you can find it.

The latest Vita firmware is being released tonight allowing connectivity for PS4 Remote Play as well as PS4 Second Screen options on the handheld. Here's a video detailing all of the improvements:

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post #7578 of 17299 Old 11-04-2013, 06:17 PM
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thanks...

Updating now
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post #7579 of 17299 Old 11-04-2013, 06:41 PM
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The SandyRavage on Ghosts vs Battlefield 4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYI_psjOgvE

He makes a lot of good points for both, worth a watch for anyone on the fence.
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post #7580 of 17299 Old 11-04-2013, 06:57 PM
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http://www.polygon.com/2013/11/4/5066292/killzone-shadow-fall-ps4-footage-1080p-60fps
Quote:
New Killzone PS4 footage is download-only to show off its 1080p, 60 FPS gameplay
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post #7581 of 17299 Old 11-04-2013, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

The SandyRavage on Ghosts vs Battlefield 4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYI_psjOgvE

He makes a lot of good points for both, worth a watch for anyone on the fence.
I liked the video, thanks for sharing. You really are up on the latest news. I look forward to seeing your posts and links. I've decided to pass on COD this year. Not because the game sucks; I usually pick it up to play with friends, but thats the thing, I played on 360 and many of my friends either aren't upgrading consoles yet, or will get the X1. COD is a great online party chat game with my CLAN.

On the other hand, I've got BF4 reserved to grab next week for my system. I usually don't find many guys talking, and really, it just doesn't matter much. The teamwork in the game just happens. I spend most of my time destroying vehicles anyway smile.gif.


My launch titles are Killzone, BF4, and NBA 2K14. Killzone and NBA seem to be optimized for the PS4 as NBA has a new engine. Can't wait!
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post #7582 of 17299 Old 11-04-2013, 07:16 PM
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I get most of my info from Neogaf, stuff usually goes up there within seconds. Easy to keep up on everything important that way.

Been subbed to Sandy since his Booster Justice days, I stayed for the great gameplay and commentary.

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post #7583 of 17299 Old 11-04-2013, 07:30 PM
 
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http://www.gamersyde.com/download_killzone_shadow_fall_multiplayer_footage-31111_en.html

MP4 encode version. Throw it up on yer 1080P HDTV's and be prepared to be blown away.
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post #7584 of 17299 Old 11-04-2013, 07:34 PM
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Samendolaro, this video is insane! Mostly for the size of the file. at a half GB for a little over 1 min of footage. Shows how beefy Killzone is. Glad I purchased it. Really can't wait to complete the campaign and get started on shooting guys online next weekend!
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post #7585 of 17299 Old 11-04-2013, 07:38 PM
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Oh man, if only movies were this lossless... Screw 4k, bring on proper 1080p encodes!*

*still need to watch this footage

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post #7586 of 17299 Old 11-04-2013, 07:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAMABLUHD View Post

Samendolaro, this video is insane! Mostly for the size of the file. at a half GB for a little over 1 min of footage. Shows how beefy Killzone is. Glad I purchased it. Really can't wait to complete the campaign and get started on shooting guys online next weekend!
Code:
General
Complete name                  : \KZSF_HIGHTBITRATE_H264.mov
Format                         : MPEG-4
Format profile                 : QuickTime
Codec ID                       : qt  
File size                      : 544 MiB
Duration                       : 1mn 14s
Overall bit rate               : 61.5 Mbps
Encoded date                   : UTC 2013-11-01 22:02:07
Tagged date                    : UTC 2013-11-01 22:10:06
Writing library                : Apple QuickTime

Video
ID                             : 2
Format                         : AVC
Format/Info                    : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                 : Main@L5.0
Format settings, CABAC         : No
Format settings, ReFrames      : 2 frames
Codec ID                       : avc1
Codec ID/Info                  : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                       : 1mn 14s
Bit rate                       : 59.9 Mbps
Width                          : 1 920 pixels
Height                         : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio           : 16:9
Frame rate mode                : Constant
Frame rate                     : 59.940 fps
Color space                    : YUV
Chroma subsampling             : 4:2:0
Bit depth                      : 8 bits
Scan type                      : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)             : 0.482
Stream size                    : 531 MiB (97%)
Language                       : English
Encoded date                   : UTC 2013-11-01 22:10:04
Tagged date                    : UTC 2013-11-01 22:10:06
Color primaries                : BT.709
Transfer characteristics       : BT.709
Matrix coefficients            : BT.709

Audio
ID                             : 1
Format                         : PCM
Format settings, Endianness    : Little
Format settings, Sign          : Signed
Codec ID                       : sowt
Duration                       : 1mn 14s
Bit rate mode                  : Constant
Bit rate                       : 1 536 Kbps
Channel(s)                     : 2 channels
Channel positions              : Front: L R
Sampling rate                  : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                      : 16 bits
Stream size                    : 13.6 MiB (2%)
Language                       : English
Encoded date                   : UTC 2013-11-01 22:10:04
Tagged date                    : UTC 2013-11-01 22:10:06

1MB per frame, 61.5Mbps
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post #7587 of 17299 Old 11-04-2013, 07:44 PM
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Chroma Subsampling still has a lot of room for improvement...

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post #7588 of 17299 Old 11-04-2013, 08:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Nice new Cerney Q&A session (questions are from gamers). Noting earth shattering is revealed, but as always he has an interesting perspective when he responds to the various topics:


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post #7589 of 17299 Old 11-04-2013, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zBuff View Post

I wonder if they could implement a tick/tock sort of upgrade. Release a new upgrade version of the console half way through the life with a big premium (ie that is sold on pure profit) that would be purely backwards compatible with the original release just able to play at high framerates/resolutions and more effects. I'd imagine it would work fine for games that aren't "coded to the metal". Whether or not it's a smart venture I wouldn't hazard to guess.
It normally takes 3 years before developers come to grips with a new system anyway.

Not gonna happen, one of the big, but frequently unspoken, advantages that consoles have over PC for online gaming is that everyone is on equal footing. Sure, you can't aim as precisely or turn as quickly as you could with a keyboard/mouse, but everyone else is using a controller too. You're not playing against a guy with triple SLI and a 4.4Ghz over clocked, water-cooled i7 with dual-4k monitors, while your frames are chugging everytime you walk into a firefight. The thing is, it's not just about the graphics, it changes the very nature of the competition. It's like racing in a Spec Car series versus racing in an Open Modified class. Suddenly the championship becomes less about skill and more about who's willing to spend more money. Sure a 4.5 would only create two classes of gamers on these consoles, not like an unlimited class, but would the poor schlubs with a 4 want to play at 30fps against the 4.5'ers playing at 60fps? If not that big of a jump then what would the difference be to make it worthwhile? Better particle effects? Better smoke?

The thing is, there is a precedence for failure in these cases. Look at any of a long line of accessories, or even map packs. Fracturing the user base can mean failure not just for the map pack but for the base game itself. I could see an upgrade cycle end up being shorter than it is currently, but definitely not three years, and definitely not a half-way upgrade. The next upgrade, if there is a future gen console at all, will be a full-on 4K console, but there's no reason to release something like that until there's a large enough installed base of 4k TV's for people to buy them. Perhaps it will be five years instead of seven this time.
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post #7590 of 17299 Old 11-04-2013, 09:28 PM
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If common sense wins over, I hope we never have a 4k game console. 1080p seems an ideal resolution for the types of setups a typical person has any hope of owning. And judging by much of what I've skimmed through over the years here, even 1080p is overkill in a good percentage of typical situations.

Seems a shame to waste processing power in a future console generation on something whose value is only a number marketing can use to sell new tv's and such and excite the uninformed console buyer to want to upgrade. I would hope that the generation after this if the PS4 establishes 60fps 1080p as almost a standard that we could then hope for something like games that could actually render a realistic forest and such rather than wasting it on 4K.

Even the best attempts at modeling forests, jungles, and so on leave a lot to be desired and are far too simple. Put that extra power 5+ years down the road on detail that we could actually appreciate instead of wasting it on cramming in extra pixels that our eyes can't even discern the added detail from just to satisfy the marketing department.

Hopefully 1080p will be here to stay and the added power after this new generation of consoles will be put to good use rather than wasted on rendering 4 unique pixels when 1 gets the job done just as well. We're at the point of diminishing returns where resolution for a home television is concerned.

But I suppose we should worry about the Xbox One and the Playstation 4 first. smile.gif
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