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post #901 of 17848 Old 04-26-2013, 07:59 PM
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Nintendo is pretty conservitive about power draw. The Gamecube and Wii were very low power systems, very efficient. The Wii U dev kits were underclocked up until just before launch because Nintendo wasn't sure what the final production unit could do. I fully expect an update to increase what the system can do.

Sony will probably do the same, dial it back at launch and once the mass production units prove stable, up it to what they achieved during their testing. If Microsoft had done this the RRoD wouldn't have hit them as hard as it did.

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post #902 of 17848 Old 04-26-2013, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Nintendo is pretty conservitive about power draw. The Gamecube and Wii were very low power systems, very efficient. The Wii U dev kits were underclocked up until just before launch because Nintendo wasn't sure what the final production unit could do. I fully expect an update to increase what the system can do.

Sony will probably do the same, dial it back at launch and once the mass production units prove stable, up it to what they achieved during their testing. If Microsoft had done this the RRoD wouldn't have hit them as hard as it did.

I guess if there ever was a console that was rushed out the door too soon, its the Wii U, but I'll believe it when I see it. It's still basically unprecedented for anyone to do this...I thought the 3DS had a stealth hardware revision. Can you link me to where you heard its an overclock?

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post #903 of 17848 Old 04-26-2013, 09:16 PM
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I guess if there ever was a console that was rushed out the door too soon, its the Wii U, but I'll believe it when I see it. It's still basically unprecedented for anyone to do this...I thought the 3DS had a stealth hardware revision. Can you link me to where you heard its an overclock?

After a recent firmware update games have noticably less slowdown, load faster and the system runs warmer. There was no official confirmation, but everything points to an overclock.

The PSP had the 333mhz unlocked via firmware for games, so it isn't unheard of. Usually these updates only free up more RAM and make the OS more efficient allowing for more power to be used for games, but flat out overclocks have happened. (the Genesis had a way for games to overclock the hardware as well)

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post #904 of 17848 Old 04-26-2013, 09:55 PM
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The clock speed of the PS Vita could be 2.0 but it's a bit lower because their was a concern for battery life and overheating. It's like companies try to play it safe at first and then decide how far they're willing to go at a later time possibly by setting aside some units that are clocked higher for testing purposes. Who knows, maybe for games such as Kill Zone Mercenary, we could see Sony increasing the clock speed. I wouldn't be surprised if Sony were to increase the clock speed of the PS4 a little in a few years depending on rather or not they think it'll really help some of their future games.
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post #905 of 17848 Old 04-27-2013, 04:16 AM
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Those are all portables though. They're deliberately underclocked to begin with. I know the vita has a mode where it can power off the wifi and dedicate more juice to the APU, but that's a deliberate tradeoff built in from day one, not a freebie.

Any time a new PC chip comes out, the OC community figures out its general limits within days. And there is huge chip to chip variability, sometimes you just get a dud....anyone can figure out the limits of their own chip within hours. It's definitely not a process that takes months.

There no reason to deliberately underclock a console that's always plugged in. There's certainly a good chance that the chip can vary its speed based on thermal or power conditions, but that's useless to devs unless every chip is 100% guaranteed to be capable of it from day one. A retroactive overclock on a console (not portable) is still unprecedented. With the amount of work they've done to reduce bottlenecks, there's no way they're just going to leave a few hundred MHz on the table.

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post #906 of 17848 Old 05-01-2013, 01:05 PM
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Shuhei Yoshida on the making of PlayStation 4
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We speak to Shuhei Yoshida on a Friday evening as he sits in his office on the 16th floor of Sony’s corporate headquarters in Shinagawa, Tokyo. The office working environment changed dramatically when the company relocated from Aoyama, Tokyo, to this building a couple of years ago. The 1,000 or so employees of SCEI, which has led PS4’s development, were spread across 17 floors in the old building, but are now crammed into just two, with roughly 500 to a floor. Each room feels as big as a football field, with no high partitions, and you can see from end to end.

Yoshida doesn’t mind the layout feeling crammed. He found it a chore to take the stairs and elevators between all those floors in the old building anyway. The new setup is more efficient – he can walk the floor and have quick chats with numerous different people. The new office also gives SCEI better access to other parts of the company. “We are very popular here,” says Yoshida proudly. “Many different Sony groups and people want to work with us, so that’s great. It helps with collaboration.” And nothing pleases Shuhei Yoshida more than collaboration. For him, it’s at the heart of the whole PS4 project.

Can you take us back to the beginnings of PS4 – was there a specific decision made that started that process, or a person who decided it was time to start that process?

As soon as we launch a platform we have small number of tech people move on to planning for the next. So I’m sure it was the same for PS3. You know PS3 is now [on sale since] 2006 so as soon as it launched I’m sure some parts of the company, especially those hardware people who work in R&D and the semi-conductor [area] must have started the R&D effort. And 2008, as Mark mentioned in the New York event, was the time when the initial project was formed, not by just the R&D people but including different parts of the larger, more cross-sectional team.

Up to PS3, the development was pretty much done by the hardware group in Tokyo. And the keys had been given [to us, after that project], so to speak. So it was Kaz who succeeded Kutaragi-san in 2006, who decided the process had to change. And he trusted the hardware team here to start involving the software team of Worldwide Studios. That was about the time we started another project, PS Vita, as well. So PS Vita was a shorter project compared to PS4 but Mark [Cerny], both Mark and Worldwide Studios were involved in both projects and we worked on both projects simultaneously.

Can you tell us how Mark came to be involved and how he was selected?

That’s an excellent question. As you know Mark and our studio have worked for a long time, our history goes back to the PS One days when Mark was running Universal Interactive and producing Crash Bandicoot. And we were the publisher, the licensee of the IP, and published both Crash Bandicoot and Spyro The Dragon franchises and after PS One the relationship evolved. He set up his own consulting company, Cerny Games, and became the contributor, contracted with us and Naughty Dog to help create Jak And Daxter and with Insomnia to help create Ratchet And Clank.

That continued on until the next-generation, for example with Resistance: Fall Of Man, but he was pretty much working on many projects with Worldwide Studios. But the significant work he did on the technical side was to help to develop the graphics engine, the common firstparty game engine, that we developed between the US and European teams. Mark was leading that effort, as well as Richard Lee, and Richard Lee is the CTO of our studio now. Mark was based in the States and Richard is now based in London. And I was running the studio in the States and Phil Harrison was running the studios in Europe, so we decided to collaborate and create a common engine for PS3. Mark shifted some of his time from helping on game projects to more technical work for the launch of PS3. Following that, Worldwide Studios provided the engine to thirdparty development communities in the early stages of PS3. Many thirdparty developers struggled to work with the new Cell architecture. So that’s how SCEI discovered the resource which is Worldwide Studios and we have a lot of technical people that may now source parts, like drivers or engines or toolsets, that they visit us and we package it and distribute it to thirdparties.

So we were talking following Kaz’s instructions that Worldwide Studios should be involved [in PS4], and I kind of suggested ‘What about Mark?’

So myself, Hirai-san and Mark started this idea of Mark directly working for SCEI Tokyo in addition to working on projects for Worldwide Studios. He’s more dedicated to technical work for PS Vita and PS4 than on game projects, but he never stopped work on game projects, helping out teams like Santa Monica studios, and now he’s a game director on Knack, with Japan Studio. He believes, and I agree, that he wants to continue to be hands-on making games at the same time as making hardware and platforms. So he understands the latest in game development and some pain points that the PlayStation developers may go through.

Nintendo ended up becoming more profitable last generation by focusing on the user experience – has Sony has taken onboard some of that same wisdom?

It’s not easy to make a system that “just works”. We’ve been criticised all the time for people having to wait to download patches, or for firmware updates, and we are gamers as well so we know exactly what people have to go through on PS3. So we wanted to really make it a focus so that our developers in Tokyo and the US who work on system software and such features were really thinking about some of these experiences.

People who watched PS4’s reveal event might assume that Japan played a less pivotal role in the development of PS4. Can you talk about the Japanese contribution?

In terms of the number of people who worked on developing PS4, both hardware and system software were predominantly Japanese. When we presented, we looked at people who best represent the [points] that we wanted to make, we chose Mark and David Perry in the network services side. It could actually have looked like the PS4 was developed from a US standpoint and that was not the case, it was a collaboration between [Japan] and our people based in the US. You know we have a larger pool of engineering resources in the US, and also some in Europe, in addition to the large technical resources that we always have had in Tokyo. The final additions [to the PS4 hardware] were made in Tokyo as well by Andy [House, CEO of SCE] and [Masayasu] Ito, head of the Playstation console. As the the lead system architect, Mark reported to those two.

Are there specific examples of how your studios influenced the hardware that you could pluck out?

Yes so for example, when discussions began on what should be the core processors – that was the very first issue of the PS4 project when we started in 2008 because the it takes the longest. So I introduced our CTO and our tech director and there were people from different studios from Worldwide Studios to get their view. The biggest question we had, of course, was if we should continue to evolve Cell architecture or move on to PC-style development.

When we designed PS4 Eye, we involved people who’d been involved in camera based games – the people from London studio and people from the US who worked on the Sports Champions games. So, depending on the issue at hand, we made sure that the right experience and background people are involved in the discussion.

And for the discussion on the controller, of course everybody has an opinion, so it was quite a large group of people involved from our studios. That was probably the largest group of people involved, including the testing of prototypes. There were lots and lots of prototypes that were made and thrown away.

If you had to guess how many prototypes that controller went through, what kind of number are we talking about?

Well, it’s hard. In the earlier stages it could be just a device, like a naked PC board connected to a PC, to just try out new sensors, for example. Or just devices put together by hand by the R&D team. You know SCE have very unique, interesting hardware prototyping people who put together some new devices to create interesting input devices. So these are handmade and given to a small number of people, to teams who are interested to try them out. It was more than a couple of years we continued iterating. After trying out many different options and devices available, we came back [to the decision] that this is a form that works.

The DualShock 4 controller seems like a considerable shift beyond its predecessors. Why such a drastic update?


This is as a result of the new process we developed with SCEI. Basically, the PS Vita went through the same process before the actual PS4. So because PS Vita was targeted to launch in 2011, and because portable is like designing a controller itself, we went through many, many iterations of PS Vita. So we just continued on the same process. When we started designing the PS4 the people at SCEI already were very familiar with the vocal creative people in our different [firstparty] studios. So the process for designing PS4, the discussions with SCEI hardware engineers and the Worldwide Studios game designers and some of the tech people were pretty much similar to [those that happened in Vita development].

So there were suggestions for improvement for DualShock 3 and some completely new ideas came from different groups, such as adding touch, as all saw the advancement of gaming on smart devices. So that was more game design side idea. And the adding of the light bar, I think, came from Rich Marks’ group, who helped develop PS Move.

Does the light bar on the DualShock 4 encroach on Move’s featureset?


The light-bar doesn’t require the camera to function. It’s just a different way of identifying the player. In terms of using the LED [as in the Dualshock 3, with] numbers like 1, 2, 3 and 4, it looked a bit odd. The SCEI people wanted some smarter way of doing it, and the use of a full-colour LED came up. And of course, as Rich’s teams pointed out, other than the depth that required the use of PS Move, identifying the precise 2D location of the player can be [done] by camera, if we put the LED bar on the controller.

So it has a dual – or it could be a triple – role because game designers could use it for some effect. Like when [players are] losing HP, the colour could change from green to red. Like in the Killzone demo, if you were watching Steven playing, [that game] has that function already.

People were watching the main screen, but Steven was facing the audience, showing how the light bar colour changes as he was hit by the enemy; as he lost hit points the colour was changing from green to red. And when he used the health replenishment, it went back to green.

At the reveal event, PS4 was positioned as being all about games. Does this mean other services – photos, music, and so on – will be less prominent on the console’s dashboard?

We know that people like these functions, such as Netflix, and use them a lot. And especially for those people who are not the person who purchased these consoles – like family members – they tend to use these non-game functions. So it’s not like we are no longer going to do these functions, but especially for the announcement event, we wanted to show how the game experiences will change with PS4, because that’s the biggest focus for us. Once that communication [to the public] is achieved, then probably later this year we’ll talk more about what these non-game functions [are] that we are trying to bring to PS4 as well.

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post #907 of 17848 Old 05-01-2013, 01:57 PM
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Good read, they truly seem like they're trying to avoid mistakes they've done in the past.

About the LED on the controller showing in-game stats, does anyone EVER take a look at their controller while playing lol? I know I sure don't and if the LED is powerful enough for me to actually notice it even though I'm looking at the screen, this sounds more annoying than helpful.

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post #908 of 17848 Old 05-01-2013, 02:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Peripheral vision amigo. wink.gif
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He believes, and I agree, that he wants to continue to be hands-on making games at the same time as making hardware and platforms. So he understands the latest in game development and some pain points that the PlayStation developers may go through.

^^^ That's a great quote about Cerny. It's encouraging that the lead hardware designer is also still involved in directing his own game to keep a fresh perspective on both sides of the fence.

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post #909 of 17848 Old 05-01-2013, 02:39 PM
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Good read, they truly seem like they're trying to avoid mistakes they've done in the past.

About the LED on the controller showing in-game stats, does anyone EVER take a look at their controller while playing lol? I know I sure don't and if the LED is powerful enough for me to actually notice it even though I'm looking at the screen, this sounds more annoying than helpful.

In a dark room it'd prob be really hard not to notice it. I just hope its not too bright....the Wii remote's blue LEDs were so distracting to me I had to cover them up to dim them.

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post #910 of 17848 Old 05-01-2013, 02:52 PM
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Yeah I just feel they'll be annoyingly noticeable if the LED is too bright, I'll definitely turn them off (if the feature is there) or cover 'em with something if that's the case. Of course won't make any final judgements before trying out the thing.

Also, around only a month away till E3, can't wait!!!

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post #911 of 17848 Old 05-01-2013, 05:42 PM
 
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Cross posting this from the GTA5 thread:

[On GTA5] With that draw distance? The lighting and shadows aren't anything to write home about in 2013, but they're much better than RDR or MP3 has done on a console. Then there's quite a bit more being rendered onscreen it seems. The textures are exponentially better than RDR or GTA4, especially inside. Rockstar has a history of rendering their wares on super dev computers for their PR media, then putting out what the consoles will handle. So, is it Next Gen, or just wishful thinking and what we'll see on PC/Next Gen (but nurfed first for current gen)?

Honestly, it could be Next Gen. Wasn't there a rumor Sony was looking to sell an unreasonable number of consoles in Q4/2013? Now, if they release in Nov thats pretty unreasonable, but start at the beginning of Q4 in Sept? Launching with GTA5? Suddenly, maybe it's not so unreasonable?


I remembered reading this weeks back:
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Having high hopes on its Playstation 4 (PS4) game console, Sony internally expects the machine's annual shipments to reach 16 million units in 2013 with the supply chain expected to start mass shipments in August, according to sources from PS4 component makers.

The sources pointed out that the PS4 will be manufactured by Foxconn Electronics (Hon Hai Precision Industry) and Pegatron Technology, and the player have just begun the processes of request for quotation (RFQ) for the related components. Therefore, the component shipments are unlikely to start until August, but should allow the machine to show up before the year-end holidays in 2013.

PS3 only sold 2 million WW through January after it's Nov 17th launch, but it was pricey and they had supply line issues. If they target a Sept release, and have much better luck with Foxconn, and it's priced competitively.... 4mil WW doesn't seem unreasonable. Did Rockstar tip their hat towards the PS4 release window?
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post #912 of 17848 Old 05-01-2013, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

Cross posting this from the GTA5 thread:

[On GTA5] With that draw distance? The lighting and shadows aren't anything to write home about in 2013, but they're much better than RDR or MP3 has done on a console. Then there's quite a bit more being rendered onscreen it seems. The textures are exponentially better than RDR or GTA4, especially inside. Rockstar has a history of rendering their wares on super dev computers for their PR media, then putting out what the consoles will handle. So, is it Next Gen, or just wishful thinking and what we'll see on PC/Next Gen (but nurfed first for current gen)?

Honestly, it could be Next Gen. Wasn't there a rumor Sony was looking to sell an unreasonable number of consoles in Q4/2013? Now, if they release in Nov thats pretty unreasonable, but start at the beginning of Q4 in Sept? Launching with GTA5? Suddenly, maybe it's not so unreasonable?


I remembered reading this weeks back:
PS3 only sold 2 million WW through January after it's Nov 17th launch, but it was pricey and they had supply line issues. If they target a Sept release, and have much better luck with Foxconn, and it's priced competitively.... 4mil WW doesn't seem unreasonable. Did Rockstar tip their hat towards the PS4 release window?

Sony has been relentless with their all out media blitz on PS4 since the launch...it's def starting to make me wonder if it's coming sooner than later. But don't forget that Tretton mentioned they were "9 months out from launch" back in February.

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post #913 of 17848 Old 05-01-2013, 06:16 PM
 
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Well, that be December, now wouldn't it. They're not going to sell 16 million in a month! smile.gif
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post #914 of 17848 Old 05-01-2013, 06:18 PM
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The beginning of Q4 is October. If they shipped in September then they would hit a full Q4 and maybe get the sales.
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post #915 of 17848 Old 05-01-2013, 07:15 PM - Thread Starter
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That was referring to Q4 for the fiscal year, not calendar year. Sony's FY ends March 31, 2014.

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post #916 of 17848 Old 05-01-2013, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

I remembered reading this weeks back:
PS3 only sold 2 million WW through January after it's Nov 17th launch, but it was pricey and they had supply line issues. If they target a Sept release, and have much better luck with Foxconn, and it's priced competitively.... 4mil WW doesn't seem unreasonable. Did Rockstar tip their hat towards the PS4 release window?

Those PS3 numbers were shipped, not sold. Sony didn't report PS3 sales numbers for years due to how poor they were. (their financial reports lumped them together with PS2 sales iirc) the PS3 was readily available in stores less than two weeks after launch. That price tag killed their sales. By February they made the joke that they would pay $1200 for every PS3 on shelves, which blew up in their faces.

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post #917 of 17848 Old 05-01-2013, 08:59 PM
 
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That's a bit revisionist. I waited 4 weeks for my "reserved" "launch unit" and supplies were still very short going into February.

Sorry man, but nothing is going to beat the WiiU as a modern failure.

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post #918 of 17848 Old 05-01-2013, 09:19 PM
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That's a bit revisionist. I waited 4 weeks for my "reserved" "launch unit" and supplies were still very short going into February.

Sorry man, but nothing is going to beat the WiiU as a modern failure.

smile.gif

Nothing revisionist about it. I was quite active online trying to defend the trainwreck of a launch that the PS3 had. It was even harder because I had zero issues finding them on shelves once the second shipments went out. Just because your reservation took weeks to be fulfilled doesn't mean they were hard to find.

The PS3 has been the very definition of failure, selling for a loss for 5 years, costing Sony billions and giving up their position as market leader. The PS4 is proof that they learned from those mistakes, so long as they don't overprice it.

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post #919 of 17848 Old 05-02-2013, 02:11 AM
 
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February 2012. The "supplies be tight!!1" claim was so ridiculous that the joke wrote itself. I actually worked retail at the time. We saw far more Wiis come in shipments than PS3s. Those Wiis were gone in a matter of hours through the next Christmas, while the PS3s sat on the shelf untouched. There was no supply issue. It was very simply a desire issue. Nobody wanted a PS3 for the first year. Well, unless they were looking for the cheapest Bluray player...

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post #920 of 17848 Old 05-02-2013, 02:45 AM
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I think it just depended where you lived. I had a difficult time finding a PS3 for quite some time, but I also remember reading on this forum, how some people saw stacks of them in their locales. The PS4 will probably be the first new console I pre-order.
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post #921 of 17848 Old 05-02-2013, 03:00 AM
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Considering how the Xbox is mainly huge in NA for the most part, I think that's where the PS3 suffered the most, it doesn't help that it's a huge market over there too.

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Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Nothing revisionist about it. I was quite active online trying to defend the trainwreck of a launch that the PS3 had. It was even harder because I had zero issues finding them on shelves once the second shipments went out. Just because your reservation took weeks to be fulfilled doesn't mean they were hard to find.

The PS3 has been the very definition of failure, selling for a loss for 5 years, costing Sony billions and giving up their position as market leader. The PS4 is proof that they learned from those mistakes, so long as they don't overprice it.

Penny Arcade aside (pretty easy crowdsourcing a few stores nation/worldwide and then making it into a joke), at least in my area getting a PS3 before summer was incredibly difficult. Maybe some out of the way stores in places where people didn’t have the disposable income had stock, but MA was bare through Q1 until shipments ramped up. And yes, with the pitiful launch software, most of that was demand for it as a multiuse BD player.

As for a failure, they passes Xbox world-wide in sales over the fall. They’ll never catch the Wii, but the Wii is a very interesting “console” in that it became a super-casual gamer device, and moreover, a Christmas must have toy. There’s millions of Wii that are defacto entertainment center knickknacks collecting dust, not touched in years. It was a big break and brilliant by Nintendo, but we’re now seeing how hard it is to strike beanie baby gold for a second time. Must have toys burn hot, then are forgotten as something new becomes the fad.

Sonys PS3/gaming division was folded into their consumer electronics area of the company, because it was pretty much their only profitable division. They might have not met their shareholder expectations, but a flat out failure? Hardly. That’s like claims that Nintendo is doomed because of their early WiiU missteps.
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post #923 of 17848 Old 05-02-2013, 10:27 AM
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You are seriously misguided. This is not Europe, this is the Big Bad US of A where you are either a raging success or a miserable failure of epic proportion. 2nd place is the first loser not worthy of anything other than pity and ridicule. Therefore, PS3 was an epic failure that ruined Sony and led to their complete collapse of the company. I expect Sony to be bought by Gamestop any day now.
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post #924 of 17848 Old 05-02-2013, 11:33 AM
 
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"Maybe some out of the way stores in places where people didn’t have the disposable income had stock"

No. My store was a couple miles south of Seattle, in the city of Tukwilla that has no real residential area but is instead just a massive commercial area. Seriously, 19,000 people live there, but many, many more work there. So, serving a 3.5 million person chunk of land, in one of the richest areas in the nation, PS3s sat on the shelf.

Again, that PA cartoon was made in the same area, but different commercial district 15 miles away. It also was not crowd sourced in any way, as you claimed. They seriously read the news that morning, then went to the first six stores they could think of and found plenty of PS3s available.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/2007/02/12

I then made it a personal game of "spot the PS3" and giggled every time I saw one sitting on the shelf for the next year. It was a fun game, with plenty of sightings.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darklordjames View Post

"Maybe some out of the way stores in places where people didn’t have the disposable income had stock"

No. My store was a couple miles south of Seattle, in the city of Tukwilla that has no real residential area but is instead just a massive commercial area. Seriously, 19,000 people live there, but many, many more work there. So, serving a 3.5 million person chunk of land, in one of the richest areas in the nation, PS3s sat on the shelf.

Again, that PA cartoon was made in the same area, but different commercial district 15 miles away.

Well as said, I can only go by what I saw on this side of the country. Maybe the west coast had less logistic problems, shipments coming from asia and all?

You jerks get FRYs too. And they won't ship instore deals to MA frown.gif
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post #926 of 17848 Old 05-02-2013, 01:16 PM
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I live in México City, in early january of 2008 I was looking to buy a console, at that time didn´t had much of an idea of the console I was going to buy, but one thing was shure, I DIDN´T WANT A PS3, too expensive, looked in some places and I only could find PS3 (almost every store had them), and very few XBOX 360, it was impossible to get a Wii at that time, I ended up buying a Nintendo DS, asked the salespersons for a date to the arrival of the wii consoles and told me that they wouldn´t be available before february, so, at that time at least in México the Wii was THE KING of consoles by miles of distance, eventually in 2009 bought a PS3 Slim because it was a lot cheaper than in early 2008.cool.gif
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post #927 of 17848 Old 05-02-2013, 01:42 PM
 
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"You jerks get FRYs too. "

You aren't missing anything. Their return policies are so terrible that it isn't worth the effort to buy from them. Newegg and Amazon, yo. smile.gif
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post #928 of 17848 Old 05-02-2013, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThumperII View Post

You are seriously misguided. This is not Europe, this is the Big Bad US of A where you are either a raging success or a miserable failure of epic proportion. 2nd place is the first loser not worthy of anything other than pity and ridicule. Therefore, PS3 was an epic failure that ruined Sony and led to their complete collapse of the company. I expect Sony to be bought by Gamestop any day now.

The PS3 burned through every penny that Sony made on the PS1 and PS2, it has sold well but it is a failure for Sony because it cost them so much money and they lost marketshare barely making second place in a three horse race. It was a win for gamers, but Sony has already shown they are not looking to repeat that performance on their end.

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post #929 of 17848 Old 05-02-2013, 02:32 PM
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That is odd...

http://www.itworld.com/personal-tech/335129/idc-total-ps3-sales-top-xbox-360

IDC: Total PS3 sales top Xbox 360
The research firm said Sony passed Microsoft in December, despite the the Xbox launching a year earlier

By Jay Alabaster, IDG News Service | Personal Tech 12
January 10, 2013, 12:31 AM — Sony's PlayStation 3 game console passed Microsoft's Xbox 360 in total sales in December, according to a report from research firm IDC.

The Japanese company has now sold about 77 million PS3 consoles worldwide, versus 76 million Xbox 360 consoles sold by Microsoft. The PS3 has pulled ahead despite being on the market for a shorter time - it went on sale in late 2006, about a year after the Xbox 360.

Both consoles are nearing the end of their lives as flagship products, with speculation growing as to when their predecessors will be released. Nintendo, which began selling the Wii in 2006, launched the next-generation Wii U late last year.

IDC said the next line of consoles, known as "eight-generation" in the industry, will provide a boost for game developers.

"With the advent of eighth-generation consoles, starting with the Wii U, historical norms strongly imply that game disc revenue will stop bleeding in 2013 and rise substantively in 2014," the research company said in a release.

Profits from the consoles themselves will take far longer to materialize. Sony famously went through years of losses before the PS3 became profitable, and both it and Microsoft have suffered through hardware and software issues as their consoles matured.

Sony has long been rumored to have its next-generation console in development, but executives have repeatedly said they are pleased with the performance of the PS3. At the International CES electronics show currently underway in Las Vegas, Sony CEO Kazuho Hirai declined to say anything specific when asked about a possible new console.

IDC said the growing wave of alternatives to traditional game consoles, which includes games on smart TVs and Android-based gaming devices, is unlikely to affect the market anytime soon. At CES, Nvidia announced its Project Shield, a handheld gaming device, and mini-PC maker Xi3 has showed a small game system that works with Steam, the game distribution platform from U.S. software firm Valve.

The estimations by IDC are in line with recent sales figures released by the companies. Microsoft has said that as of September 2012 it sold 70 million units of its gaming device, while Sony has announced it sold 70.2 million. Nintendo sold over 97 million Wii units through the same month.

One factor in Sony's favor is Microsoft's failure to achieve strong sales of its gaming device in Japan. The PS3 has sold 8.7 million consoles in the country, compared to 1.6 million for the Xbox 360, according to Famitsu, a respected local publisher.
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"Microsoft has said that as of September 2012 it sold 70 million units of its gaming device, while Sony has announced it sold 70.2 million. Nintendo sold over 97 million Wii units through the same month."
"The Japanese company has now sold about 77 million PS3 consoles worldwide, versus 76 million Xbox 360 consoles sold by Microsoft."

Every one of those Wiis was sold at a profit. Both the 360/PS3 were sold at a loss for quite a bit, and the PS3 was sold at a greater loss for a much longer time. In addition, the 360 destroys both the PS3 and Wii in attach rate, where money is actually made. In the end, the 360 and Wii were very profitable, one in software terms and one in hardware terms. At the same time, the PS3 suffered on both halves of the equation. It sold at a loss in hardware, and had mediocre attach rates in software that did not make up for the initial hardware loss.

Pointing at "77 milians versus 76 millians!!1" is missing the forest for the trees.
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