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MaxDam77's Avatar MaxDam77
10:59 AM Liked: 41
post #1081 of 18669
05-22-2013 | Posts: 1,875
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonyeuw View Post

It did occur to me last night that maybe this is all part of a ploy, to attach so much DRM crap to the physical games you 'own'( I say that more and more lightly), that people will see DD games as a more attractive option and slowly abandon physical formats, which the industry wants to happen anyway.

Yeah I know, sounds like a conspiracy theory.

I was already getting DD games for the PS3 (walking dead, fifa 13, Bioshock infinite, tomb raider, Batman Arkham City,...to name a few). I was letting my PS3 download overnight. I don't have a high speed internet connection (6mbs), that's why I was downloading while sleeping. Being a PS Plus member had me started with some freebies and great discounts.
But PS4 /Xbox One game size will be a different story. But we will all get higher speed internet connection some day.

So the question is, ok, let's say I log in with my account on your xbox one. I will still have to download it from the cloud, which will take time, and let's say you have a slower internet connection speed...
If I log out, the game and game saves will be installed in "your" xbox one, but you won't be able to play it unless you buy the fee.

I that case, I will let all my friends buy the games and have them installed on mine with their accounts and just pay the fees. Did they think about that?
freemeat's Avatar freemeat
11:00 AM Liked: 591
post #1082 of 18669
05-22-2013 | Posts: 2,902
Joined: Apr 2010
If Sony follow suit to this quote below, that would suck big time.
Quote:
Kotaku: If I’m playing a single player game, do I have to be online at least once per hour or something like that? Or can I go weeks and weeks?

Harrison: I believe it’s 24 hours.

Kotaku: I’d have to connect online once every day.

Harrison: Correct.

PENDRAG0ON's Avatar PENDRAG0ON
11:06 AM Liked: 560
post #1083 of 18669
05-22-2013 | Posts: 9,484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freemeat View Post

If Sony follow suit to this quote below, that would suck big time.

Yes it would, and the sad part is they have yet to confirm if the system will work if it is left offline from day one or if it will require a persistant connection like Microsoft. (All they said is that it is not always online, which Microsoft can claim as well.
americangunner's Avatar americangunner
11:08 AM Liked: 287
post #1084 of 18669
05-22-2013 | Posts: 1,890
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A lot of restrictions on the MS side right now. You have to pay for the multiplayer side of games (gold), you might have to pay to unlock the single player in games if it is used, you have to be connected once a day, and you have to have kinect plugged in for the console to work. If Sony is smart, and that may be a big if, they could come out and really steal the show.
freemeat's Avatar freemeat
11:14 AM Liked: 591
post #1085 of 18669
05-22-2013 | Posts: 2,902
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Yes it would, and the sad part is they have yet to confirm if the system will work if it is left offline from day one or if it will require a persistant connection like Microsoft. (All they said is that it is not always online, which Microsoft can claim as well.

Indeed, I am a bit nervous but all we can do is wait and see. Wii U gives me hope that Sony isn't going the same route, though PS4 and Xbone are closer in technology.

I'm also very curious about the final specs and how PS4 to Xbone games will compare.
PENDRAG0ON's Avatar PENDRAG0ON
11:15 AM Liked: 560
post #1086 of 18669
05-22-2013 | Posts: 9,484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by americangunner View Post

A lot of restrictions on the MS side right now. You have to pay for the multiplayer side of games (gold), you might have to pay to unlock the single player in games if it is used, you have to be connected once a day, and you have to have kinect plugged in for the console to work. If Sony is smart, and that may be a big if, they could come out and really steal the show.
Sony left it open to do the same, but with how Microsoft is being roasted alive for this, they are probably scrambling to get rid of it all and match Nintendo's current position on everything.
americangunner's Avatar americangunner
11:18 AM Liked: 287
post #1087 of 18669
05-22-2013 | Posts: 1,890
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Sony left it open to do the same, but with how Microsoft is being roasted alive for this, they are probably scrambling to get rid of it all and match Nintendo's current position on everything.
And if they do, then they will make the decision a lot easier for a lot of people. I think the tv stuff is cool on the xbox, but it isn't something that I need from my game console. I would never skype with someone, I do all my fantasy football on my phone, and I am not retarded and know how to use a tv remote and don't need to tell my tv to change channels with my voice.
bd2003's Avatar bd2003
11:29 AM Liked: 1468
post #1088 of 18669
05-22-2013 | Posts: 10,859
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Sony left it open to do the same, but with how Microsoft is being roasted alive for this, they are probably scrambling to get rid of it all and match Nintendo's current position on everything.

I doubt that. Every thing everyone is griping about now, packed in, always on kinect, used game restrictions, always online Internet - none of those came out of the blue. They've all been rumored and they've had the opportunity to see the negative reactions to the rumors. They're going all in - if they backtrack on anything, it'll be well after launch, if they're trailing in sales.
TyrantII's Avatar TyrantII
12:01 PM Liked: 832
post #1089 of 18669
05-22-2013 | Posts: 10,114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by americangunner View Post

What makes you think Sony won't be doing this? They never said they weren't and were pretty vague about their used games plan. You might want to wait to get the whole picture before you jump on anything.

Sony has said they themselves are not looking to block used games; however, this does not mean the capabilities aren't there for the publishers to do so.

If they renegade on that, they’re going to get a beating like MS currently is.
TyrantII's Avatar TyrantII
12:08 PM Liked: 832
post #1090 of 18669
05-22-2013 | Posts: 10,114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonyeuw View Post

It did occur to me last night that maybe this is all part of a ploy, to attach so much DRM crap to the physical games you 'own'( I say that more and more lightly), that people will see DD games as a more attractive option and slowly abandon physical formats, which the industry wants to happen anyway.

Yeah I know, sounds like a conspiracy theory.

I wouldn’t say that’s a conspiracy, but I’d say this convolution is probably to appease retail a bit more. It’s obviously not for consumers, right?

From what I’ve read every disc based game on the Xbone will download to the HDD and play off the install with or without the disc. Basically the disc is just a transfer medium now and a quicker way to download the “bits” as MS was fond of calling their games in interviews yesterday.

I just keep thinking how bad Nintendo balked with all this coming to light. If they just waited 18-24 months and release a non DRM-loaded GAMING machine with a tiny bit more power than Sony’s, well that’s the ballgame. (assuming Sony has a DRM ace up their sleeve too)
dragonyeuw's Avatar dragonyeuw
12:53 PM Liked: 50
post #1091 of 18669
05-22-2013 | Posts: 3,132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxDam77 View Post

I was already getting DD games for the PS3 (walking dead, fifa 13, Bioshock infinite, tomb raider, Batman Arkham City,...to name a few). I was letting my PS3 download overnight. I don't have a high speed internet connection (6mbs), that's why I was downloading while sleeping. Being a PS Plus member had me started with some freebies and great discounts.
But PS4 /Xbox One game size will be a different story. But we will all get higher speed internet connection some day.

So the question is, ok, let's say I log in with my account on your xbox one. I will still have to download it from the cloud, which will take time, and let's say you have a slower internet connection speed...
If I log out, the game and game saves will be installed in "your" xbox one, but you won't be able to play it unless you buy the fee.

I that case, I will let all my friends buy the games and have them installed on mine with their accounts and just pay the fees. Did they think about that?

Honestly, I have no idea what the thought process is right now. It did dawn on me briefly that perhaps we're overreacting and that the system will look slightly more attractive over the coming months as more info surfaces, but really? Not a good first impression at all. With e3 around the corner, yesterday's reveal should have whetted our appetites for more, but I've turned my attention squarely on what Sony has up their sleeves.
dragonyeuw's Avatar dragonyeuw
01:01 PM Liked: 50
post #1092 of 18669
05-22-2013 | Posts: 3,132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post


I just keep thinking how bad Nintendo balked with all this coming to light. If they just waited 18-24 months and release a non DRM-loaded GAMING machine with a tiny bit more power than Sony’s, well that’s the ballgame. (assuming Sony has a DRM ace up their sleeve too)

Interestingly enough, for all the flak Nintendo has been taking on various gaming forums lately, there's a growing wave of pro-Wii U sentiment in direct response to the Xbox one's reveal. I'll be interested to see if Nintendo capitalizes on this 'anti-xbox' sentiment with some big announcements at E3 or the next 'Nintendo Direct'.
PENDRAG0ON's Avatar PENDRAG0ON
01:42 PM Liked: 560
post #1093 of 18669
05-22-2013 | Posts: 9,484
Joined: Mar 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonyeuw View Post

Interestingly enough, for all the flak Nintendo has been taking on various gaming forums lately, there's a growing wave of pro-Wii U sentiment in direct response to the Xbox one's reveal. I'll be interested to see if Nintendo capitalizes on this 'anti-xbox' sentiment with some big announcements at E3 or the next 'Nintendo Direct'.

Just look at this gamefaqs poll.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/691088-xbox-one/66246911
americangunner's Avatar americangunner
01:49 PM Liked: 287
post #1094 of 18669
05-22-2013 | Posts: 1,890
Joined: Jul 2008
I still have no interest in a Wii-U. I just don't think it will be what I want it to be. The graphics won't be anywhere near what the new systems will be doing, and I am not that interested in the big Nintendo exclusives anymore.
Yrd's Avatar Yrd
04:35 PM Liked: 192
post #1095 of 18669
05-22-2013 | Posts: 3,008
Joined: Mar 2008
I have a sneaking feeling that sony has the same plans for games to be tied to accounts.

Gamefly's days are numbered I think. Lot less games are going to be bought, nobody will be able to test games.

I'm wondering if there's a plan to rent out games digitally. Download the game and play it for a week or whatever time frame they come up with, then lock the game out unless you pay full price, like their "fee" they keep talking about.
Mounta1n's Avatar Mounta1n
04:48 PM Liked: 21
post #1096 of 18669
05-22-2013 | Posts: 675
Joined: Dec 2008
I think it's pretty clear the Wii U is near-dead at this point. Some Nintendo exclusives will keep it on life support for a while for the Nintendo faithful, but the lack of big-name third party titles will limit it's appeal with the mainstream. The Wii made its money by appealing to the fickle, casual (not really a gamer) gamer crowd, that always chase the latest and greatest, and they've since moved on to mobile gaming, and who knows what else. I'm not saying the Wii didn't also provide a great game experience for Nintendo fans, they did, but their financial success came from the big popularity surge they had with the type of crowd that usually watches American Idol instead of gaming.

Back on-topic: I think Sony has a good chance of success this time around with the PS4. Since the One announcement, I've seen a lot of talk that even though the PS4 will be quite a bit more powerful than the One, that since the architectures of the two systems are so similar (x86 8-core Jaguar, 8GB RAM, etc.) the games will likely look the same as they don't think developers will spend the extra time to make the PS4 version look better. The thing they're missing is, even if the games do look the same graphically, the PS4's extra power means the games should run smoother, more fluidly, more responsively, on the PS4, and THAT means a lot to the real gamers. If you can have COD or BF4 or whatever at 60fps on PS4 and only 30fps on XOne, which would you choose? Even if Xone gets COD's Ghost DLC first, it seems like an easy choice to me.
Mounta1n's Avatar Mounta1n
04:49 PM Liked: 21
post #1097 of 18669
05-22-2013 | Posts: 675
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yrd View Post

I have a sneaking feeling that sony has the same plans for games to be tied to accounts.

Gamefly's days are numbered I think. Lot less games are going to be bought, nobody will be able to test games.

I'm wondering if there's a plan to rent out games digitally. Download the game and play it for a week or whatever time frame they come up with, then lock the game out unless you pay full price, like their "fee" they keep talking about.

They essentially have that with PS Plus already. The full-hour demos, that let's you play the full game and get as far as you can in one hour.
ThumperII's Avatar ThumperII
04:56 PM Liked: 178
post #1098 of 18669
05-22-2013 | Posts: 1,577
Joined: Mar 2005
Do not underestimate the SO influence on this generation. What mother wants this with their kids running around in supposed privacy. Who wants this in a bedroom? The machine will not function unless the Kinect is on and the mic is on 24/7. If you use it for tv, the camera will be on too. Use the BD player, wave and say hi to MS....

"At Microsoft’s launch event in Seattle, demonstrators described the peripheral as the “eyes and ears of the living room”."

http://www.welivesecurity.com/2013/05/22/xbox-one-kinect-microphone/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+eset%2Fblog+(ESET+Blog%3A+We+Live+Security)
TyrantII's Avatar TyrantII
05:24 PM Liked: 832
post #1099 of 18669
05-22-2013 | Posts: 10,114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mounta1n View Post

The games will likely look the same as they don't think developers will spend the extra time to make the PS4 version look better. The thing they're missing is, even if the games do look the same graphically, the PS4's extra power means the games should run smoother, more fluidly, more responsively, on the PS4, and THAT means a lot to the real gamers. If you can have COD or BF4 or whatever at 60fps on PS4 and only 30fps on XOne, which would you choose? Even if Xone gets COD's Ghost DLC first, it seems like an easy choice to me.

Honestly, because of the similarities it also means it's easier to just bump up resources on one. Use slightly better textures, more particle, better resolutions, ect. It's a weird dynamic where the same argument for just not doing anything also applies because very little effort needs to go into it for a slight improvement. IE the extra effort is very cost effective if a Dev has time to do so, whereas in the past it was a major time sink just to get games up and running.

I doubt we'll see major differences, especially at launch. But the PS4 power advantage, along with their API/code to the metal philosophy is probably going to show later in the Gen.

But it's nothing too different than now, Last of Us is kinda the same thing. And in the end were getting to levels of diminishing returns with GFX IMO. It's going to be about the gameplay and new ideas in AI, physics, gameplay, ect that drives this generation.
bd2003's Avatar bd2003
05:29 PM Liked: 1468
post #1100 of 18669
05-22-2013 | Posts: 10,859
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mounta1n View Post

I think it's pretty clear the Wii U is near-dead at this point. Some Nintendo exclusives will keep it on life support for a while for the Nintendo faithful, but the lack of big-name third party titles will limit it's appeal with the mainstream. The Wii made its money by appealing to the fickle, casual (not really a gamer) gamer crowd, that always chase the latest and greatest, and they've since moved on to mobile gaming, and who knows what else. I'm not saying the Wii didn't also provide a great game experience for Nintendo fans, they did, but their financial success came from the big popularity surge they had with the type of crowd that usually watches American Idol instead of gaming.

Back on-topic: I think Sony has a good chance of success this time around with the PS4. Since the One announcement, I've seen a lot of talk that even though the PS4 will be quite a bit more powerful than the One, that since the architectures of the two systems are so similar (x86 8-core Jaguar, 8GB RAM, etc.) the games will likely look the same as they don't think developers will spend the extra time to make the PS4 version look better. The thing they're missing is, even if the games do look the same graphically, the PS4's extra power means the games should run smoother, more fluidly, more responsively, on the PS4, and THAT means a lot to the real gamers. If you can have COD or BF4 or whatever at 60fps on PS4 and only 30fps on XOne, which would you choose? Even if Xone gets COD's Ghost DLC first, it seems like an easy choice to me.

Theoretically they could do that, I just cant envision many devs throwing one of their ports under the bus like that. 30fps to 60fps is too huge a difference to ignore, what might end up happening is people with only the xbox completely skipping the game, because they heard it was a bad port. That being said, I really want this to happen, I've said as much for a while. But thinking about it now, even knowing the PS4 could probably handle that in many cases....I have my doubts it'll happen. There will be differences in quality for sure, the devs dont need to spend much time to make the PS4 look better, multiplatform devs are almost always making PC ports as well - they'll turn up the precision on a few effects until the frame rate slips, just like PC gamers. I guess we'll see soon enough...I'd love more games to be 60fps on console.
Mikazaru's Avatar Mikazaru
05:53 PM Liked: 43
post #1101 of 18669
05-22-2013 | Posts: 1,764
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FWIW. Mind you, Blow has said some disparaging things about getting games onto XBL lately, and might be biased.
bd2003's Avatar bd2003
06:46 PM Liked: 1468
post #1102 of 18669
05-22-2013 | Posts: 10,859
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikazaru View Post



FWIW. Mind you, Blow has said some disparaging things about getting games onto XBL lately, and might be biased.

It will probably depend on which platform is the lead platform, which will depend on which platform sells the most games, which will depend on which platform sells more consoles.....

Assuming the CPU isn't the bottleneck, and its unlikely to be once devs get the hang of compute in a few years, all other things being equal:

A game targeted for 30 on the Xbox probably can't run at 60 on a PS4 at the same settings. I say probably, because a lot of games that lock to 30 usually run at 40ish or more a lot of times. But unless you're running at a multiple of the refresh rate, you'll get judder or tearing, so they hard lock it to 30 and leave some headroom. If a game runs at 40 most of the time, it could probably swing 60 most of the time on the PS4, with a few drops to 45 or so...judder/tearing is less noticeable at higher frame rates, so that might be acceptable...depends on the dev. I don't think we'll see it that often if this is the approach they take.

OTOH, a game targeting 60 on the PS4.....that's not running at 60 on the Xbox. Not without sacrifices. If they're going to just drop the FPS to compensate, its going down to a locked 30 .If gamers really start to demand 60fps, and the PS4 outsells Xbox games by a wide margin....this could be the new normal.

He's not wrong about the performance gap - but it still depends on which system is considered the more important one.
americangunner's Avatar americangunner
07:16 PM Liked: 287
post #1103 of 18669
05-22-2013 | Posts: 1,890
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mounta1n View Post

They essentially have that with PS Plus already. The full-hour demos, that let's you play the full game and get as far as you can in one hour.
Plus don't forget that they said you can basically try any game on psn.
SmokenAshes's Avatar SmokenAshes
10:30 PM Liked: 53
post #1104 of 18669
05-22-2013 | Posts: 776
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Geeze, you CANNOT watch a youtube video without watching a Xbox One add.
Paulo Teixeira's Avatar Paulo Teixeira
12:39 AM Liked: 33
post #1105 of 18669
05-23-2013 | Posts: 2,728
Joined: May 2007
To be fair, Sony spent a ton on YouTube advertising as well with PS4 adds popping up everywhere.

Anyway, now this was a funny thread bump.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=430463
metallicaband's Avatar metallicaband
05:57 AM Liked: 99
post #1106 of 18669
05-23-2013 | Posts: 996
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What are the odds of Sony implementing a similar RETARDED strategy against used games? With EA cancelling their online pass thing, chances are pretty high that a deal have already been dealt with Sony/Microsoft to still be protected, Microsoft already confirmed that they're doing it while Sony hasn't been 100% clear about the situation.

I mean this is a GOLDEN opportunity for Sony to completely DESTROY Xbox in the upcoming gen, they will truly be the Knight in shining armor for all gamers in the world and I see Microsoft having absolutely NO CHANCE to compete with Sony if they didn't have any restrictions over used games, if anything I predict Microsoft to respond back and Cancel this whole retarded move after realizing what a huge mistake it was, unless they're THAT arrogant and stupid.

I hope there won't be a mandatory online check every 24 hours too. I swear words can't describe how retarded such things are.
dragonyeuw's Avatar dragonyeuw
06:28 AM Liked: 50
post #1107 of 18669
05-23-2013 | Posts: 3,132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metallicaband View Post

What are the odds of Sony implementing a similar RETARDED strategy against used games? With EA cancelling their online pass thing, chances are pretty high that a deal have already been dealt with Sony/Microsoft to still be protected, Microsoft already confirmed that they're doing it while Sony hasn't been 100% clear about the situation.

I mean this is a GOLDEN opportunity for Sony to completely DESTROY Xbox in the upcoming gen, they will truly be the Knight in shining armor for all gamers in the world and I see Microsoft having absolutely NO CHANCE to compete with Sony if they didn't have any restrictions over used games, if anything I predict Microsoft to respond back and Cancel this whole retarded move after realizing what a huge mistake it was, unless they're THAT arrogant and stupid.

I hope there won't be a mandatory online check every 24 hours too. I swear words can't describe how retarded such things are.

Microsoft had to have implemented these 'features' with full backing from the publishers, with said publishers limiting support for any console without those 'features' (Wii U?). With that said, I'm fairly certain PS4 will adopt some of these strategies as well( again at the publishers' request), but I believe Sony is deliberating being ambiguous about exactly 'how' it will work on their system, while sitting back and letting Microsoft take the heat( boy are they ever right now!).

I think the publishers are letting Sony/MS decide exactly how they're going to incorporate them into their systems, just as long as they do in some way where the publishers get a cut from all used game sales. My guess is that Sony will leave it up to the developers to determine whether they charge a fee for used games, but they won't adopt this strategy for their own games. More of a 'Hey our hands are tied as far the publishers go, but we won't do that to you!' ploy to come out looking like the innocents in all this.
Dagg21's Avatar Dagg21
06:31 AM Liked: 10
post #1108 of 18669
05-23-2013 | Posts: 381
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Round 1 to Sony, its not over by any stretch but way to stumble out of the gate xbox. I think sony has 2 choices mirror M$ and that way users arent deciding on a console for that factor alone, and to them its a bigger money issue on game re-use/resale than taking the opposing stance and driving to drive potential xbox conumers over to them. Sony hasnt definitavley said so it should be interesting to see how this plays out.
SmokenAshes's Avatar SmokenAshes
06:35 AM Liked: 53
post #1109 of 18669
05-23-2013 | Posts: 776
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Customer service is dead. It's all about "how can we make more money" these days and not customer satisfaction.
ThumperII's Avatar ThumperII
07:39 AM Liked: 178
post #1110 of 18669
05-23-2013 | Posts: 1,577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokenAshes View Post

Customer service is dead. It's all about "how can we make more money" these days and not customer satisfaction.
That is because customer service is hard and so many are willing to live without it. Consumers are at fault for everything we are not getting. I for one, will skip the Xbone and am waiting to see what happens with the PS4.
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