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post #1171 of 17307 Old 05-26-2013, 01:36 PM
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Anthony, on my post right above yours I already brought up the online stuff.

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post #1172 of 17307 Old 05-26-2013, 05:11 PM - Thread Starter
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It's encouraging to see that not only are they fully aware of the advantages that can be had using the compute abilities of the graphics hardware, they will also make use of it in their first gen game. Great tech article.

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post #1173 of 17307 Old 05-27-2013, 10:38 AM
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I'm very impressed with Sony this year, I just hope they will work out better then the PS3. The real question is there going be another model of the PS4 like they did PS3?[/COLOR]
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post #1174 of 17307 Old 05-27-2013, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Mounta1n View Post

It's funny. I sort of feel the same way. I've had a hard time getting excited about many new games. A lot of times when I want to play I end up just playing something simple, like pinball. I don't think I remember hearing any news about Sony charging $50-60 for used game licenses though, where did you find that info?


I am in this camp as well I think. SSX was the only game I played last year that I can think of and my interest in games has just plummeted as I have gotten older for some reason. I actually got VERY addicted to SSX and the experience looking back is a bit depressing. I don't ever want to get addicted to a game like that again since the time spent could have gone to something where I would have had something to show after all the time involved (like progressing further with music for example). The only games I have played this year have been SSX a few times, Tomb Raider and Pinball. Not sure if I will even buy a PS4 as nice as it sounds. Oh well. Interests come and go and maybe I will get back into it at some point.

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post #1175 of 17307 Old 05-27-2013, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post

I am in this camp as well I think. SSX was the only game I played last year that I can think of and my interest in games has just plummeted as I have gotten older for some reason. I actually got VERY addicted to SSX and the experience looking back is a bit depressing. I don't ever want to get addicted to a game like that again since the time spent could have gone to something where I would have had something to show after all the time involved (like progressing further with music for example). The only games I have played this year have been SSX a few times, Tomb Raider and Pinball. Not sure if I will even buy a PS4 as nice as it sounds. Oh well. Interests come and go and maybe I will get back into it at some point.

Sounds just like you're not interested in gaming anymore, you don't have to get rewarded and have something "to show" when playing a game, it's about enjoying your time while playing it. I play music for example too but they're just two very different passions for me.

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post #1176 of 17307 Old 05-27-2013, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

I am in this camp as well I think. SSX was the only game I played last year that I can think of and my interest in games has just plummeted as I have gotten older for some reason. I actually got VERY addicted to SSX and the experience looking back is a bit depressing. I don't ever want to get addicted to a game like that again since the time spent could have gone to something where I would have had something to show after all the time involved (like progressing further with music for example). The only games I have played this year have been SSX a few times, Tomb Raider and Pinball. Not sure if I will even buy a PS4 as nice as it sounds. Oh well. Interests come and go and maybe I will get back into it at some point.

I have a couple of core hobbies that I enjoy, but my level of interest in them comes and goes. I've went 6 months to a year without playing a single video game multiple times during the last 6 years. Eventually I find my way back.

I've never been addicted to a game so I can't relate there. I will say though that I'd love to re-experience playing Mario 64 for the first time. Man was that amazing.
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post #1177 of 17307 Old 05-27-2013, 02:01 PM
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A Q to those who understand how GPUs work, PS4's GPU is supposed to be 50% faster according to the reported specs so far, is that only related to the GPUs alone with the PS4 having more GPU cores/shaders than the Xbox one version? Or is the GDDR5 ram included in the overall comparison? Because from my experience Memory bandwidth is a pretty big deal when it comes to PC GPUs, which is why any GPU that's worthy of anything uses GDDR5 these days.

If it's 50% faster without considering the RAM, would like to know the impact of GDDR5 RAM when it comes to VRAM usage (not system memory) compared DDR3. Some explanation would be great.

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post #1178 of 17307 Old 05-27-2013, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by metallicaband View Post

A Q to those who understand how GPUs work, PS4's GPU is supposed to be 50% faster according to the reported specs so far, is that only related to the GPUs alone with the PS4 having more GPU cores/shaders than the Xbox one version? Or is the GDDR5 ram included in the overall comparison? Because from my experience Memory bandwidth is a pretty big deal when it comes to PC GPUs, which is why any GPU that's worthy of anything uses GDDR5 these days. If it's 50% faster without considering the RAM, would like to know the impact of GDDR5 RAM when it comes to VRAM usage (not system memory) compared DDR3. Some explanation would be great.

The PS4 GPU is faster on multiple levels.

There are 18CUs (compute units) vs 12CUs on the x1. This is where the real computation is handled, it can be thought of essentially as hundreds of miniature CPU cores. This is the main reason the PS4 is said to be 50% faster. It handles the shaders, vertexes - and soon physics and a whole host of other processes. The further they push compute tasks onto the GPU and away from the CPUs, the difference will matter more and more.

Second, the PS4 has 32 ROPs (render output units) vs 16 on the x1. This is the part of the GPU that pushes pixels to the screen and handles basic texturing and blending, its the final output stage. Its basically what graphics cards were solely made of 10 years ago. This gives the potential for pushing more overall pixels - that means higher resolution, frame rates, or 3D. Nowadays shaders run on virtually every pixel, so CUs are the main bottleneck, but having this many ROPs ensures that there's one less bottleneck.

And finally memory bandwidth is a measure of the overall rate of the flow of data between the APU and the memory. The faster data moves, the less time the APU spends waiting, the more time it spends actually computing something. Memory latency also matters, this is a direct measure of the time it takes for a single message to get to and from memory...and this is the sole area the x1 has an advantage. In the context of graphics, it means very little - creating graphics is millions of jobs spread across hundreds of cores, none of which are dependent on the results of the other - the overall rate of flow is really what counts. Latency only matters for serial operations, the kind the CPUs are typically used for - but again, with 8 CPU cores, programs will need to be effectively split up into little jobs that can run independently of each other....so bandwidth takes precedence again. Both systems have L1 and L2 caches to handle the stuff that requires super low latency, if the PS4 engineers really thought the latency would be an issue, they'd have built in a GB or two of DDR3 alongside the GDDR5.

So the 50% number probably stems from the CU count, but there's really no meaningful area where the X1 GPU comes out on top. PS4 has 50% more raw computational power, 100% more basic pixel pushing power, and much more bandwidth, although its hard to put a number on that, because the x1's setup is so complex.....it depends on how hard devs work to squeeze the max out of the x1. Devs just won't have to work as hard to get around bandwidth bottlenecks on the PS4.

On paper the PS4 has a significant advantage - basically the difference in performance you'd get from going from a $150 video card to a $300 one. Not every game or dev will take advantage of it, and the $150 card still plays most games quite well, but the PS4 will have the premium experience.
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post #1179 of 17307 Old 05-27-2013, 04:26 PM
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Thanks a lot for the detailed reply, I specially didn't know much about the CUs and ROPs, that was very helpful man !!

I didn't know the PS4's GPU is that much better, it's quite significant (unless MS will change something about it, but that's very doubtful at this point)! Of course not all devs will take advantage of it, but I'm sure a good bunch will, specially first party titles and dedicated 3rd party ones such as Kojima productions.

One more thing, can Sony use Gaikai somehow to counter MS's cloud gaming/computing or whatever it is that they're trying to hype these days?

I'm not a believer of cloud gaming at all btw and will only be convinced when it's out and proven, I just see far too many obstacles and cons in it, such as:

- Publishers having to pay to use those servers
- Latency!! Cloud gaming might be amazing in a place such as Japan where the local latency is within the 5-8 ms range which is awesome, but most people in the world don't have that luxury at all, any kind of latency in a video game that requires to be very responsive makes it unplayable in my head, for serious gamers at least. This will be a huge problem for people who don't have a server close to them.
- Servers problems will mess up the games that rely on them very badly
- Poor internet connection = poor single player experiences

..etc

Maybe it could handle some tasks in the background or stuff like that where latency isn't an issue? I just feel like this technology will have an impact when PS5 and Xbox two lol? will be here along with more reliable world wide internet, don't think it'll be ready for the upcoming gen.

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post #1180 of 17307 Old 05-27-2013, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by metallicaband View Post

Thanks a lot for the detailed reply, I specially didn't know much about the CUs and ROPs, that was very helpful man !!

I didn't know the PS4's GPU is that much better, it's quite significant (unless MS will change something about it, but that's very doubtful at this point)! Of course not all devs will take advantage of it, but I'm sure a good bunch will, specially first party titles and dedicated 3rd party ones such as Kojima productions.

One more thing, can Sony use Gaikai somehow to counter MS's cloud gaming/computing or whatever it is that they're trying to hype these days?

I'm not a believer of cloud gaming at all btw and will only be convinced when it's out and proven, I just see far too many obstacles and cons in it, such as:

- Publishers having to pay to use those servers
- Latency!! Cloud gaming might be amazing in a place such as Japan where the local latency is within the 5-8 ms range which is awesome, but most people in the world don't have that luxury at all, any kind of latency in a video game that requires to be very responsive makes it unplayable in my head, for serious gamers at least. This will be a huge problem for people who don't have a server close to them.
- Servers problems will mess up the games that rely on them very badly
- Poor internet connection = poor single player experiences

..etc

Maybe it could handle some tasks in the background or stuff like that where latency isn't an issue? I just feel like this technology will have an impact when PS5 and Xbox two lol? will be here along with more reliable world wide internet, don't think it'll be ready for the upcoming gen.

Yeah, I have no idea what Microsoft's plan for cloud computing is. It sure sounds amazing though.
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Forza Motorsport 5 from Turn 10 Studios is the latest edition of the highest-rated racing franchise of the past 10 years. Built from the ground up to take advantage of Xbox One and the infinite power of the cloud, no game better delivers the sensation of being behind the wheel. “Forza Motorsport 5” sets a new bar for racing games and will be available exclusively for Xbox One at launch.
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post #1181 of 17307 Old 05-27-2013, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by metallicaband View Post

Thanks a lot for the detailed reply, I specially didn't know much about the CUs and ROPs, that was very helpful man !!

I didn't know the PS4's GPU is that much better, it's quite significant (unless MS will change something about it, but that's very doubtful at this point)! Of course not all devs will take advantage of it, but I'm sure a good bunch will, specially first party titles and dedicated 3rd party ones such as Kojima productions.

Its significant, but don't get me wrong...the x1 will still be very powerful. There's really not anything the PS4 can do that the X1 cant...but the PS4 has the potential to do it better. I doubt you will ever see a cross platform game that runs or looks better on the x1.
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One more thing, can Sony use Gaikai somehow to counter MS's cloud gaming/computing or whatever it is that they're trying to hype these days?

I'm not a believer of cloud gaming at all btw and will only be convinced when it's out and proven, I just see far too many obstacles and cons in it, such as:

- Publishers having to pay to use those servers
- Latency!! Cloud gaming might be amazing in a place such as Japan where the local latency is within the 5-8 ms range which is awesome, but most people in the world don't have that luxury at all, any kind of latency in a video game that requires to be very responsive makes it unplayable in my head, for serious gamers at least. This will be a huge problem for people who don't have a server close to them.
- Servers problems will mess up the games that rely on them very badly
- Poor internet connection = poor single player experiences

..etc

Maybe it could handle some tasks in the background or stuff like that where latency isn't an issue? I just feel like this technology will have an impact when PS5 and Xbox two lol? will be here along with more reliable world wide internet, don't think it'll be ready for the upcoming gen.

They're claiming two entirely separate things.

Gaikai is meant to run full games in the cloud. I don't think it will ever replace the locally rendered console experience either, but for those times when you dont have a choice...it'll be better than nothing. For some games, latency really isnt a big deal, and being able to just jump right into a demo with zero download time....that's pretty neat. If it proves to be a killer feature that gamers demand, I'm sure MS can pull something comparable together to compete pretty quickly.

What MS is claiming, is that parts of the actual game code will run in the cloud. This isnt as crazy as it sounds....not everything you see on screen is latency sensitive. The parts that are, will have to run locally, but a lot of stuff is non-interactive and predictable, and can be squeezed into a small amount of data to send back and forth, like certain physics or lighting scenarios. It's not BS, the theory is sound, and it really could work. There is a lot of potential here....I listed out a bunch of example in the x1 thread. I really like the idea and want to see what they can do with it, but as of right now, it is 100% hype. It could potentially be game changing, or it could be one of those neat ideas, that had so many caveats and drawbacks, that it never gets used. Certainly the fact that its not cross platform is a HUGE roadblock to ever seeing it implemented widespread. Just like Gaikai for MS, it is something Sony can pull together a competitive solution relatively quickly, if developers demand it. And contrary to popular belief, it has absolutely zero to do with dedicated servers for MP. What they're claiming is incredibly ambitious, I'm looking forward to seeing it in action.

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post #1182 of 17307 Old 05-27-2013, 05:17 PM
 
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Clouds been a big buzz word in business the last 5-10 years. Honestly, I think it has more to do with marketing their Azure services and proof of concept than anything. MS has decided they absolutely have to compete with Amazon Web Services, Rackspace, and Google Compute Engine, and I agree.

There will be some benefits, but they're going to come as additional costs to developers, unless they plan to raise prices on LIVE or not charge for it. I'm wondering if AI and non essential physics can be offloaded, but I guess will have to see. Latency is already a problem in MP games as is, so what happens when you stop offloading much more data intensive tasks? It sounds like MS is excited about the possibilities, but not to sure just what Devs will and can use it for.
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post #1183 of 17307 Old 05-27-2013, 05:31 PM
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Its significant, but don't get me wrong...the x1 will still be very powerful. There's really not anything the PS4 can do that the X1 cant...but the PS4 has the potential to do it better. I doubt you will ever see a cross platform game that runs or looks better on the x1.
They're claiming two entirely separate things.

Gaikai is meant to run full games in the cloud. I don't think it will ever replace the locally rendered console experience either, but for those times when you dont have a choice...it'll be better than nothing. For some games, latency really isnt a big deal, and being able to just jump right into a demo with zero download time....that's pretty neat. If it proves to be a killer feature that gamers demand, I'm sure MS can pull something comparable together to compete pretty quickly.

What MS is claiming, is that parts of the actual game code will run in the cloud. This isnt as crazy as it sounds....not everything you see on screen is latency sensitive. The parts that are, will have to run locally, but a lot of stuff is non-interactive and predictable, and can be squeezed into a small amount of data to send back and forth, like certain physics or lighting scenarios. It's not BS, the theory is sound, and it really could work. There is a lot of potential here....I listed out a bunch of example in the x1 thread. I really like the idea and want to see what they can do with it, but as of right now, it is 100% hype. It could potentially be game changing, or it could be one of those neat ideas, that had so many caveats and drawbacks, that it never gets used. Certainly the fact that its not cross platform is a HUGE roadblock to ever seeing it implemented widespread. Just like Gaikai for MS, it is something Sony can pull together a competitive solution relatively quickly, if developers demand it. And contrary to popular belief, it has absolutely zero to do with dedicated servers for MP. What they're claiming is incredibly ambitious, I'm looking forward to seeing it in action.

I have little hope of seeing the cloud being used in game. These servers will cost money to implement and run, thus increasing costs to the publisher/developer. The functionality will not be used by all gamers because not all will be online and so it does not add as much value for the publisher but with the increased costs. Graphics are not really the selling point that they once were.
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post #1184 of 17307 Old 05-27-2013, 05:40 PM
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Clouds been a big buzz word in business the last 5-10 years. Honestly, I think it has more to do with marketing their Azure services and proof of concept than anything. MS has decided they absolutely have to compete with Amazon Web Services, Rackspace, and Google Compute Engine, and I agree.

There will be some benefits, but they're going to come as additional costs to developers, unless they plan to raise prices on LIVE or not charge for it. I'm wondering if AI and non essential physics can be offloaded, but I guess will have to see. Latency is already a problem in MP games as is, so what happens when you stop offloading much more data intensive tasks? It sounds like MS is excited about the possibilities, but not to sure just what Devs will and can use it for.

Yeah, AI is one of the most obvious areas it could be put to good use, non-essential physics as well, as long as its not directly interactive. A building crumbling realistically after taking an RPG hit....that won't work, it needs to happen instantly. But from a timed charge....absolutely. Anything where computing the results is intensive, but displaying them isn't. As long as they can allow for a 100ms or so window of time before it's ready.

At best, its completely game changing, a paradigm shift as significant as the CDROM or GPUs. At worst, its an idea way ahead of its time.

I think that if its going to make a real difference, it'll be towards the tail end of the generation, and by then it won't be so unique. The cost per unit of computation will have come way down, user bandwidth will be higher on average, and always online will be generally accepted. It'll be one of the ways they squeeze every last drop out of these platforms, like the phase of the cycle we're in now. But it's still incredibly forward thinking, even if right now its just a way for them to give azure some prestige.

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post #1185 of 17307 Old 05-27-2013, 06:39 PM
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The idea itself sounds amazing and if for example someday the world had an insane network infrastructure that the latency between entire continents would be in the single digit ms (can you imagine how amazing that would be for MP lol?), I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work very well. Everything has got to start at some point though I guess for it to be ready later on.

I knew about the Gaikai service being different since it's intended to stream games, I was just wondering if Sony was able to somehow use it like MS are planning to do, but like you said Sony will probably have an answer for it if the developers demanded the tech. I'm very interested it to see how this turns out, but for the time being I'll be skeptical until proven wrong when people start using the tech.

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post #1186 of 17307 Old 05-27-2013, 07:11 PM
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I was thinking about some scenarios that might be run on this cloud joint.

Replay of a race with a lot more detail added.
In engine cut scenes with a lot more going on than could be handled on your box alone.
Anything really that is not within the actual gameplay. Or it's an option for that first one. You go to replay your race and you have a choice to replay what you saw or throw the extra bells and whistles in.

I just can't see it working for real time scenarios. Besides the latency that would be involved, how would they know how many people would need to access the server. If it's a huge Halo release and it's some kind of physics shenanigans they have to off put on to servers, what happens when they don't have enough servers to run the code. Game crashes? Game locks up for 30 seconds waiting to get the code back? Game just doesn't render whatever it was supposed to or it makes it look like minecraft graphics?

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post #1187 of 17307 Old 05-27-2013, 07:15 PM
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The idea itself sounds amazing and if for example someday the world had an insane network infrastructure that the latency between entire continents would be in the single digit ms (can you imagine how amazing that would be for MP lol?), I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work very well. Everything has got to start at some point though I guess for it to be ready later on.

Will never happen, the speed of light is actually a fundamental physical limit here, and we're already pretty close to it with modern fiber optics. You'll never ping from new york to london and back at faster than 37ms, at least not in this universe. tongue.gif
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I knew about the Gaikai service being different since it's intended to stream games, I was just wondering if Sony was able to somehow use it like MS are planning to do, but like you said Sony will probably have an answer for it if the developers demanded the tech. I'm very interested it to see how this turns out, but for the time being I'll be skeptical until proven wrong when people start using the tech.

Yeah, stay skeptical for now. Don't let anyone sell you a bill of goods, that somehow the cloud is going to bridge the gap between the two consoles, at least for now. I'll be interested to see if they show anything actually running with the tech at e3.

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post #1188 of 17307 Old 05-27-2013, 07:25 PM
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I was thinking about some scenarios that might be run on this cloud joint.

Replay of a race with a lot more detail added.
In engine cut scenes with a lot more going on than could be handled on your box alone.
Anything really that is not within the actual gameplay. Or it's an option for that first one. You go to replay your race and you have a choice to replay what you saw or throw the extra bells and whistles in.

I just can't see it working for real time scenarios. Besides the latency that would be involved, how would they know how many people would need to access the server. If it's a huge Halo release and it's some kind of physics shenanigans they have to off put on to servers, what happens when they don't have enough servers to run the code. Game crashes? Game locks up for 30 seconds waiting to get the code back? Game just doesn't render whatever it was supposed to or it makes it look like minecraft graphics?

Yeah, that's the biggest issue I can see here. They have to have a fallback. One of the scenarios one of the MS guys threw out there in an interview was calculating the ambient occlusion lighting for static objects. That's a solid use case for the tech - really high up front computational cost, but can be transferred down and rendered out as simple lightmaps. He basically proposed that until the process was done, the lighting of the scene would basically run at a lower precision, and devs will have to get clever about hiding the jump between low and high quality. They already have to deal with this now with texture streaming, so its not too far fetched. If the servers were down or clogged, it would just stay stuck in the lower quality mode.

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post #1189 of 17307 Old 05-27-2013, 07:29 PM
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Will never happen, the speed of light is actually a fundamental physical limit here, and we're already pretty close to it with modern fiber optics. You'll never ping from new york to london and back at faster than 37ms, at least not in this universe. tongue.gif
Damn it, I was hoping if I lived enough and be in my 60s maybe such thing was possible and I'd look back laughing at our time with hundreds of ms and lag between continents =(

<50ms would still be bad ass though lol

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post #1190 of 17307 Old 05-27-2013, 09:19 PM
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post #1191 of 17307 Old 05-27-2013, 09:23 PM
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Interesting list of what is known about both new consoles.

http://mashable.com/2013/05/26/xbox-one-playstation-4/
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post #1192 of 17307 Old 05-27-2013, 09:31 PM
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MS might demonstrate a footage with / without cloud processing @ E3 to create some needed hype for themselves and "steal" the show, where you'd see super amazing graphics with cloud power that's clearly much better than the the "normal" version of the game. I still won't buy a thing they say though, doing the demonstration with absolute optimal setup where the server is in the same room of the conference and no bandwidth/latency issues whatsoever, it absolutely won't mean sh*t IMO, gotta see the thing used by people through the internet to see the real world performance of the tech.

BTW, does anyone know if Sony said anything about giving us the option to fully install a game on the console and just use the disc for verification purposes? I'd really like to have that option so the game would run as fast as possible, an option to upgrade the HDD again like the PS3 sure would be great in-case PS4 also offers a 500GB HDD instead of something larger.

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post #1193 of 17307 Old 05-27-2013, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by metallicaband View Post

MS might demonstrate a footage with / without cloud processing @ E3 to create some needed hype for themselves and "steal" the show, where you'd see super amazing graphics with cloud power that's clearly much better than the the "normal" version of the game. I still won't buy a thing they say though, doing the demonstration with absolute optimal setup where the server is in the same room of the conference and no bandwidth/latency issues whatsoever, it absolutely won't mean sh*t IMO, gotta see the thing used by people through the internet to see the real world performance of the tech.

That's exactly what I expect as well. The only way I'll start to believe they're serious about it is if they have demos running on the floor show in real time, and they get a bunch of developers to give interviews about specifically how they're using the tech to enhance their games.
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BTW, does anyone know if Sony said anything about giving us the option to fully install a game on the console and just use the disc for verification purposes? I'd really like to have that option so the game would run as fast as possible, an option to upgrade the HDD again like the PS3 sure would be great in-case PS4 also offers a 500GB HDD instead of something larger.

Sony said they expect all games to install to the HDD (in the background), BD drives just arent fast enough anymore to fill up 8GB of RAM. No word yet on whether you'll need the disc anymore, what size the HDD is, or whether you'll be able to upgrade the internal one. But with USB 3.0, external drives have the potential to be just as fast or faster than the internal, so it shouldnt matter that much anymore if you can upgrade the internal one. If you can though, I'm definitely going to throw something fast in there like a hybrid or SSD.

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post #1194 of 17307 Old 05-27-2013, 09:45 PM
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Someone thinks the MS cloud will not pan out.

http://www.inquisitr.com/677557/xbox-one-microsoft-may-be-lying-about-its-cloud/
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“Also, someone please ask if these fabled 300,000 servers are real hardware, or just the total size of Windows Azure (which then implies XBL would only ever get a portion of that). To put it more concretely: a journalist could compute the installation and yearly maintenance cost for 300,000 servers, and then ask Microsoft where that VERY LARGE chunk of money is coming from (And how it could possibly make business sense for a game console). … I can spin up 10,000 virtual servers per host. They would just all suck. Saying 300k when they are virtual is a lie. You can’t make 300k servers available without kicking all other customers off the service.”
Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/677557/xbox-one-microsoft-may-be-lying-about-its-cloud/#5fqAdch93MIUYZAw.99

Yeah, my ******** detector went on full blast when they mentioned 300,000 servers. It's a completely meaningless number without any context. My guess is he's absolutely right - 300,000 servers is the total number of "servers" in their worldwide azure server farm, and thats the number of a virtual servers....the amount of actual rack hardware servers is prob a small fraction of that.

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post #1195 of 17307 Old 05-27-2013, 09:52 PM
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They need all those extra servers for all the new ads they're going to have for Gold subscribers. New generation equals more ads. Woo hoo!
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post #1196 of 17307 Old 05-28-2013, 05:31 AM
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Here's eurogamer's take on the cloud. Interesting and well written as usual, they know their stuff when it comes to the tech.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-in-theory-can-xbox-one-cloud-transform-gaming

Their final thoughts, if you don't want to be bothered reading it all:
Quote:
What's obvious at this point is that the concept of cloud computing looks uncertain and unlikely, and Microsoft needs to prove its claims with actual software. Yet based on what we've been told, the firm itself isn't sure of what uses to put it to, while the limitations of latency and bandwidth severely impede the benefits of all that computing power. Frequent references to Live and multiplayer gaming suggest a less exciting, though certainly valuable, use for Microsoft's new servers in providing better, conventional, multiplayer experiences. More players, adaptive achievements and intelligent worlds all sound great in theory, but we're certainly not seeing the notional results of a four-fold increase in Xbox One's processing power.

Microsoft needs to prove its position with strong ideas and practical demonstrations. Until then, it's perhaps best not to get too carried away with the idea of a super-powered console, and there's very little evidence that Sony needs to be worried about its PS4 specs advantage being comprehensively wiped out by "the power of the cloud".

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post #1197 of 17307 Old 05-28-2013, 06:54 AM
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I'd take caution with what Blow says though; he has a definite bone to pick with MS and isn't afraid to let it be known. It could be clouding his judgement. I guess we'll find out at E3.
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post #1198 of 17307 Old 05-28-2013, 12:36 PM
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I'd take caution with what Blow says though; he has a definite bone to pick with MS and isn't afraid to let it be known. It could be clouding his judgement. I guess we'll find out at E3.
Yeah, you get that with everything he says and does. I wonder if there really will be a mass exodus of indie developers from XBL arcade. I love the smaller games, since you can get them for a good price and they can give you a few hours of entertainment.

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post #1199 of 17307 Old 05-28-2013, 12:56 PM
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Yeah, you get that with everything he says and does. I wonder if there really will be a mass exodus of indie developers from XBL arcade. I love the smaller games, since you can get them for a good price and they can give you a few hours of entertainment.

I think if there is Sony can stand to gain some headway in mindshare. If smaller devs are wanting to flock to the PS4 what's stopping the bigger devs? MS has money to spare of course and if they're smart they'll change their our way or the highway attitude but I can definitely see this as a positive for the PS4 should you start to see games like Castle Crashers, etc. come out for the PS4 but not the One. I won't care regardless as I'll have both but I do appreciate that Sony has placed a focus on trying to get these popular XBLA devs on board from the beginning.
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post #1200 of 17307 Old 05-28-2013, 01:19 PM
 
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Gaming journalist Geoff Keighley seems to think Sony can’t refuse publishers want of blocking used games, so gamers flood twitter in a campaign to hold Sonys feet to the fire:

http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/playstation-fans-flock-twitter-protest-drm-6C10094985
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But the company's brief respite from angry and anxious gamers screeched to a halt this weekend after prominent video game journalist Geoff Keighley reported that Sony was planning to use some form of DRM to control or limit access to used games.

"Right now we're not hearing a lot from the game publishers about what their view is on" used game sales and DRM, Keighley said, adding that "console companies are becoming the bad guys" in the eyes of many consumers.

"And, you know, Microsoft is getting beaten up a lot on it," Keighley said. "Sony, I think, has been seen as this kind of white knight so far that's not going to restrict used games. Based on some of the things I'm hearing, I don't think that's entirely true, because I can't see publishers allowing one system to do one thing and one do another."

That may not seem like much information to take a company to task for, let alone start a de-facto social media campaign to demand an explanation or assurance that the PlayStation 4 would allow its players unfettered access to used games. But that's exactly when PlayStation fans did, quickly taking to Twitter with the hashtags #PS4NoDRM and #PS4USEDGAMES to express their outrage over the console developer's prospective policy.

PS4 will be playable offline, no internet connection needed:
http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/sony-didnt-consider-always-online-requirement-playstation-4-1C9849762
Quote:
Shuhei Yoshida, president of Sony's Worldwide Studios, told Game Informer Magazine that an always-online requirement didn't even come to mind when Sony was developing its next-generation console, the PlayStation 4.

“Did we consider it? No, we didn’t consider it," Yoshida told Game Informer.

The reason? Many of the same factors that were brought against former Microsoft executive Adam Orth when he told critics of "always-online" to just "deal with it."

"The main reason being that many countries don’t have robust Internet connections," Yoshida said. "It makes sense for people to have Internet connections to play online games, but for offline games there are many countries that we saw do not really have robust Internet.”
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