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post #12601 of 17709 Old 01-22-2014, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by americangunner View Post

I would also love to see a link to this. I am guessing he doesn't have anything to back it up, because he says stuff like this a lot over here.

@PENDRAG0ON Yeah PEN! you gotta provide links to the 7 months of articles, blogs, youtube montages, and forum threads you viewed online following the Microsoft reveal or you're gonna get BANNED.
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post #12602 of 17709 Old 01-22-2014, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by tsaville View Post

Although I didn't entirely agree with Microsoft's original vision, I think a couple of good things got axed in the process:

"Xbox One will also allow you to give up to 10 family members access to "log in and play from your shared games library on any Xbox One." Similar to Xbox 360, "a family member can play your copy of Forza Motorsport at a friend’s house. Only now, they will see not just Forza, but all of your shared games. You can always play your games, and any one of your family members can be playing from your shared library at a given time."

"Players will be able to access their library from other consoles. "After signing in and installing, you can play any of your games from any Xbox One because a digital copy of your game is stored on your console and in the cloud. So, for example, while you are logged in at your friend’s house, you can play your games."

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/06/microsoft-details-xbox-one-used-games-always-online

The second one, in particular, I believe applied to both disc-based installs and DD games, meaning that you wouldn't have to have the disc in the system to play it. That would have been a great feature, and the family sharing thing would have been nice as well. I think if they had come up with a better solution for selling/trading games, their original vision might have worked out okay.

 

They can still do that if they want to wtih DD games. Steam is doing it right now. There's no reason that needed to be tied to their always online DRM.

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post #12603 of 17709 Old 01-22-2014, 03:22 PM
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If any company wants to promote a digital future they have got to get trading or reselling software down first and foremost, period. I'm feeling a burning sensation from BF still, its a lot better than it was but had I bought the disc I could have easily traded it off and came back when things actually did work but I had to buy it digitally thinking it would be my most played game. Lesson learned I guess. I've got my money worth and it will get better but its the principle.
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post #12604 of 17709 Old 01-22-2014, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d_m1010 View Post

Hey guys, question for you. How do you all define hardcore gamers versus casual gamers. I suppose I consider myself hardcore since I have played solid since 1985 with my first Nintendo and I play roughly 3 hours a day now with my Ps4 or 360. I love video games and they are part of my daily existence hence the hardcore moniker.

This video is old -- but I didn't want to fuel the console wars when it first came out, so I didn't post it earlier. I think it's OK to now, since both consoles are selling well. The guy says a lot of negative things about the XB1, that people may or may not agree with, but I think his way of categorizing gamers is spot on.

I'm not as hardcore as I used to be (many hours spent online every day on Bad Company 1 & 2, played through Mass Effect 1 & 2 on every class etc), but I'm still hardcore compared to the average person. I don't play online anymore (just too big of a time sink if you want to do well) and it's usually only one play-through for single player campaigns these days too. If I really love a game, I will have a sleepless week finishing it, and then it's back to my routine (yes, I am getting old too). I have over 80 PS3 (disc) games, a couple dozen 360 games, around 7-8 Wii U games, and many digital games for my portables (Vita, 3DS, iOS). Before, I always felt like I was missing out when I skipped highly regarded games (even though I didn't enjoy their predecessors or the developers' other games) and would eventually cave. This time around though (PS4), I'm going to be much more selective.

Judging by the comments so far it's fueling the Warz anyway.

I've never suffered from console envy, I just enjoyed what I could get. Until recently I could never afford more than one console at a time so I didn't really have a choice. I was Atari, Sega, then PS2, 3, and 4. I did finally get a second console, a 360 S in fall 2010, and found I had too much to play if that's possible! While I enjoyed a few games on it, by 2012 I sold the 360 and was back to one console. I figure that there's enough good games for each system that I'm not missing out on anything at all.
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post #12605 of 17709 Old 01-22-2014, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Penello has a big mouth, which is why we haven't heard from him since launch.

http://www.joystiq.com/2013/11/08/penello-people-just-werent-ready-for-all-digital-xbox-one/
That doesn't come close to saying the blame their fans and that they still want to go the drm route.

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post #12606 of 17709 Old 01-22-2014, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Crash44 View Post

Judging by the comments so far it's fueling the Warz anyway.

I've never suffered from console envy, I just enjoyed what I could get. Until recently I could never afford more than one console at a time so I didn't really have a choice. I was Atari, Sega, then PS2, 3, and 4. I did finally get a second console, a 360 S in fall 2010, and found I had too much to play if that's possible! While I enjoyed a few games on it, by 2012 I sold the 360 and was back to one console. I figure that there's enough good games for each system that I'm not missing out on anything at all.

I'm not a loyalist to either system. I bought my 360 first and it wasn't until last year that I added a PS3 to the mix. I went with the PS4 this time but I'm sure down the road I'll add a One. By then I'm sure they'll have some game I must have and possibly a small price drop.
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post #12607 of 17709 Old 01-22-2014, 03:55 PM
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So far I don't see anything on the other side as a must have. Count Wii and PC in there too I guess. Most of the greats are multiplat anyway and Sony did an excellent job convincing me their exclusives are enough. Gears of War is about the only series I really liked on Xbox but its done for the most part. Diablo finally has a decent console release so PC no longer needed there. PC has a ton of cool stuff but I'm chained to one all day and would much rather just have a console. Bluray isn't a factor now since all the new ones have it. Last gen was a different story altogether.

All in all I think I've experienced everything Microsoft has to offer but Sony keeps adding new and most importantly fun experiences. When I fully switched over at the end of last gen I thought I was done and could just ride it out but found out I was wrong. There are still a lot of PS3 titles I wouldn't mind playing or seeing moved to PS4. Puppeteer being a great example. Want to buy it but don't need it and not willing to go back.
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post #12608 of 17709 Old 01-22-2014, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Penello has a big mouth, which is why we haven't heard from him since launch.

http://www.joystiq.com/2013/11/08/penello-people-just-werent-ready-for-all-digital-xbox-one/

"Sometimes the customer just says, 'No. I look at it this way, I'm done, I've made up my mind,'"

"We just think that's the way the future's gonna go,"

"We may have been right. What we were wrong about was that it's just too soon. People just weren't ready to make that leap right away."

Cool, thanks. I had not read that. Last comment I remember reading was some nonsense comment he made prior to launch about not giving up 30% power or something (then the multiplat games came out biggrin.gif ).

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@PENDRAG0ON Yeah PEN! you gotta provide links to the 7 months of articles, blogs, youtube montages, and forum threads you viewed online following the Microsoft reveal or you're gonna get BANNED.

LOL, so true. Damn you loyalist scum!
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post #12609 of 17709 Old 01-22-2014, 04:30 PM
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They can still do that if they want to wtih DD games. Steam is doing it right now. There's no reason that needed to be tied to their always online DRM.

Concur with you. Simply giving people a choice in the matter would've been enough.

Keep the 24hr/Online to share requirement and simply state "If you want people to access your library, you must be online. If you aren't, they can't access it."

I think that is fairly simple; same principles as a file server. If it's on, you can access, if its off, kick your admin in the shins for turning it off.

What Microsoft wanted to do was feasible, but they did a piss poor job of delivering that message and opted to not give consumers a choice. As a result they lost face and now we have a better XB1.

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post #12610 of 17709 Old 01-22-2014, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Epyon415 View Post

Concur with you. Simply giving people a choice in the matter would've been enough.


Keep the 24hr/Online to share requirement and simply state "If you want people to access your library, you must be online. If you aren't, they can't access it."


I think that is fairly simple; same principles as a file server. If it's on, you can access, if its off, kick your admin in the shins for turning it off.


What Microsoft wanted to do was feasible, but they did a piss poor job of delivering that message and opted to not give consumers a choice. As a result they lost face and now we have a better XB1.

They just overplayed their hand. They were crystal clear about what they were going to take away from you, and very vague on what they were going to do to make it worth your while.  We never got enough details to know how their sharing plan compared to what steam is doing.  Valve just did it out of the blue, and there were no tradeoffs - nothing changed, you didn't need a 24 hour check in or anything like that.

If they want to promote a digital future, they need to do it by making digital better, not making physical worse. People lamenting the loss of the sharing plan shouldn't be pointing their finger at the complainers, they should be pointing them at MS. They made you believe those two things were somehow tied together when they're not.    
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post #12611 of 17709 Old 01-22-2014, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

They just overplayed their hand. They were crystal clear about what they were going to take away from you, and very vague on what they were going to do to make it worth your while.  We never got enough details to know how their sharing plan compared to what steam is doing.  Valve just did it out of the blue, and there were no tradeoffs - nothing changed, you didn't need a 24 hour check in or anything like that.

If they want to promote a digital future, they need to do it by making digital better, not making physical worse. People lamenting the loss of the sharing plan shouldn't be pointing their finger at the complainers, they should be pointing them at MS. They made you believe those two things were somehow tied together when they're not.    

People seemed to freak out for some reason about the 24 check in. I got a launch 360 in 2005 and in December 2006 a PS3. Those systems were always connected to the internet, always. The entire times I owned them Even when my FiOS service was down for almost a week from a botched upgrade I still had my systems connected to the internet. I used a T-Mobile hotspot and was still able to play games like CoD without issue.

I guess my point is that most people will have their console connected to the internet, like their other devices, all the time anyway. I still don't understand why people freaked out over it when it would not have made any difference to the majority of people that complained about it.. I personally I would have preferred it since I was looking forward to still being able to buy discs at a discount and getting the benefit of digital downloads. But since it didn't get implement I have no choice but to pay more and get digital downloads. Otherwise I would have to be stuck using discs like some legacy system, which completely changes the experience of both the XBOne and PS4.

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post #12612 of 17709 Old 01-22-2014, 05:37 PM
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Right now I have no internet at home, and trying to find a solid service isn't going well. All from moving 3 miles away. If any of my consoles required online in any way, it would be a brick thanks to this. I would have to pay an additional $20-30 to add a tether option to my phone if I needed online.

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post #12613 of 17709 Old 01-22-2014, 05:52 PM
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What Pen said. It's fine if you have the choice to unplug or plug, because for those off-times/instances when you have no internet you lose all of its functionality. If a feature or two were to be lost, like sharing games with my friends, that is one thing. But the whole system not being able to do anything at all is just unacceptable, whether it is Microsoft or Sony. And no Steam doesn't count frown.gif
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post #12614 of 17709 Old 01-22-2014, 05:58 PM
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People seemed to freak out for some reason about the 24 check in. I got a launch 360 in 2005 and in December 2006 a PS3. Those systems were always connected to the internet, always. The entire times I owned them Even when my FiOS service was down for almost a week from a botched upgrade I still had my systems connected to the internet. I used a T-Mobile hotspot and was still able to play games like CoD without issue.

I guess my point is that most people will have their console connected to the internet, like their other devices, all the time anyway. I still don't understand why people freaked out over it when it would not have made any difference to the majority of people that complained about it.. I personally I would have preferred it since I was looking forward to still being able to buy discs at a discount and getting the benefit of digital downloads. But since it didn't get implement I have no choice but to pay more and get digital downloads. Otherwise I would have to be stuck using discs like some legacy system, which completely changes the experience of both the XBOne and PS4.

I think if they had just gone total digital without physical disks there would have been far less blow back. The selling of physical disks (which would actually be treated as digital) is what caused most all of their problems .
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post #12615 of 17709 Old 01-22-2014, 06:10 PM
 
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Even worse than that, down the road when XB1 support is turned off, say goodby to your digital library even if you have it safe on a HDD, with backups ready to go. GFWL leaving couldn't have happened at a better time, showing the issue for digital content when the powers that be no longer feel the profit in maintaining authentication servers.

We've been through this all before. MS's problem is they were trying to capture even more stuff that gamers historically have take for granted to monetize it (following the XBL pay to play MP formal). As a division of MS they desperately need to produce more revenue streams, and they saw a lot of value that game consumers already have that could be redirected to profits. They wrapped their plan up in freedom towels and added value flags, thinking a messaging campaign and a legion of diehards would be able to weather the storm. Gamers simply had other ideas.

Luckily they wised up and 180's before it was too late. But they damaged the brand and a decade of good will with those shenanigans.

Way forward for success? They need to focus on a kinect less Sku, they need to focus on providing gamers with as mcuh value as possible, and they need to start investing again in world caliber 1st party studios that will pump out new, interesting IP's.
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I think if they had just gone total digital without physical disks there would have been far less blow back. The selling of physical disks (which would actually be treated as digital) is what caused most all of their problems .

I'm not so sure. DR3 is getting hit up with a 13GB patch, and there's a lot of groaning over it. XB1 doesn't have a let's play system yet either, and longish installs are somewhat annoying.

Discs are still there because the infrastructure simply isn't up to the task yet, especially in rural areas and outside the US market. Plus I also feel that console gamers just don;t want a totally discless option, yet. Once you go that route and you stop used games, you're going to lose a lot of people to the other system that allows it just because of physical vs digital. They couldn't not include it.
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post #12616 of 17709 Old 01-22-2014, 06:22 PM
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I'm not so sure. DR3 is getting hit up with a 13GB patch, and there's a lot of groaning over it. XB1 doesn't have a let's play system yet either, and longish installs are somewhat annoying.

Discs are still there because the infrastructure simply isn't up to the task yet, especially in rural areas and outside the US market. Plus I also feel that console gamers just don;t want a totally discless option, yet. Once you go that route and you stop used games, you're going to lose a lot of people to the other system that allows it just because of physical vs digital. They couldn't not include it.

They could have had Kiosks in the B&M stores where people could have transferred the install files for any game to external drives so there were ways to ease people into it and qwell the BW issues in the rural areas.

its probably something both companies should begin now and also start selling digital codes in store.
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post #12617 of 17709 Old 01-22-2014, 06:35 PM
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What's the rush towards digital anyway? It's not like you see record companies trying to make the CD or vinyl extinct.

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post #12618 of 17709 Old 01-22-2014, 06:45 PM
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No rush... But if you want people to accept digital you need to sell them on it.

Sell the physical copies alongside digital in store, price the digital $5-$10 less and let the people decide . Putting digital in store also allows it to be part of sales and bundles.
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post #12619 of 17709 Old 01-22-2014, 06:46 PM
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Way forward for success? They need to focus on a kinect less Sku, they need to focus on providing gamers with as mcuh value as possible, and they need to start investing again in world caliber 1st party studios that will pump out new, interesting IP's.
I'm not so sure. DR3 is getting hit up with a 13GB patch, and there's a lot of groaning over it. XB1 doesn't have a let's play system yet either, and longish installs are somewhat annoying.

Releasing a Kinect-less sku would be throwing in the towel. It's akin to Sony ripping out the BD drive from the PS3 after it had a sub-par launch. Instead, Sony (wisely) chose to cut costs in other ways, such as eliminating backwards compatibility, SACD support, USB ports, etc. I expect MS to follow a similar path. Off the top of my head, they could replace the dual-band wifi adapter with a less expensive option, reduce the number of USB ports, etc.

You can't simply get rid of the primary differentiating feature of your product and expect that will turn things around. Going back to the PS3 comparison, BD playback was the primary reason I bought the PS3 (I didn't even buy a game for it for months). Similarly, the integrated media experience (of which Kinect is a significant part) is the defining feature of the Xbox One.
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post #12620 of 17709 Old 01-22-2014, 06:47 PM
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Wow, unbelievable, I guess it just never ends does it. rolleyes.gif

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I realize this is difficult for you to understand, but every single post above you that I know you're considering "loyalist" is either well thought out in its explanation of "why I went with this console and not that one" or has been dripping with sarcasm. People are having a discussion. There's been no name calling or rudeness, no bashing or immaturity. Grow up. Adults are talking about their hobby in here.
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post #12621 of 17709 Old 01-22-2014, 07:00 PM
 
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Releasing a Kinect-less sku would be throwing in the towel. It's akin to Sony ripping out the BD drive from the PS3 after it had a sub-par launch. Instead, Sony (wisely) chose to cut costs in other ways, such as eliminating backwards compatibility, SACD support, USB ports, etc. I expect MS to follow a similar path. Off the top of my head, they could replace the dual-band wifi adapter with a less expensive option, reduce the number of USB ports, etc.

Throwing in the towel was not talking about it since May, and not having any killer apps to show off why they're asking $100 more for $150 peripheral that serves the same function on their UI as a $5 mic and earpiece. If they have a reason for including it, they need to ofter it quickly. Otherwise the $100 premium is just going to be a drag on a console that went a little lighter on hardware to make room for it. Maybe thats the real reason not to, but thats just ego and spite at that point. A $400 XB1 is going to be more successful than a $500 box.

And no, just including hardware doesn't mean a wave of new innovation will fall out of the sky. We have a long history in gaming that proves that, and Kinect 1 itself has had plenty of time to bake in developers minds... with little to show.

Incentives need to happen first, especially in a industry like gaming where costs and development time are huge, growing issues. Incentive = cash money or MS putting out game changer software themselves.

IMHO of course.
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You can't simply get rid of the primary differentiating feature of your product and expect that will turn things around. Going back to the PS3 comparison, BD playback was the primary reason I bought the PS3 (I didn't even buy a game for it for months). Similarly, the integrated media experience (of which Kinect is a significant part) is the defining feature of the Xbox One.

Like it or not, more and more the differentiating thing between consoles (or game platforms for that matter) is coming down to services (new) and exclusive IP's (old). Add in which system your friends play on, which I believe is the most important factor.

The DS4 lightbar, touch pad, and speaker are neat little gimmicks, but gimmicks they are. They might be more widely adopted if devs slowly use them more, but I highly doubt these are game changing additions. You might be right that they give differentiating points in the console wars and console marketing. But I don't really believe anyone but the most loyal of troopers thinks the DS4 or Kinect gimmicks are revolutionary and game changing differentiators to what is ultimately a game console.
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post #12622 of 17709 Old 01-22-2014, 07:09 PM
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I agree that launching without compelling software for kinect 2.0 was a big mistake, but I'm hoping they rectify that in the coming months.
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

What's the rush towards digital anyway? It's not like you see record companies trying to make the CD or vinyl extinct.

Vinyl is actually going through a mini-resurgence with Hipsters and Yuppies. It's even popping back up in movies.

I agree, why not keep all options open and a much larger variety of pricing andlicensing terms (share/own/trade/rent)?

With net neutrality in peril, and ISP's salivating at the idea of offering data plans like their cellphone cousins; people might not really want an all digital future anyways once the realize the costs.
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post #12624 of 17709 Old 01-22-2014, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by " 
I realize this is difficult for you to understand, but every single post above you that I know you're considering "loyalist" is either well thought out in its explanation of "why I went with this console and not that one" or has been dripping with sarcasm. People are having a discussion. There's been no name calling or rudeness, no bashing or immaturity. Grow up. Adults are talking about their hobby in here.

* frankthetoad, please allow me to apologize as I originally thought you were freemeat when I responded, I guess I misread it, very sorry.


Actually what many of you are doing is bashing the competition and derailing the thread totally off topic. Why? confused.gif

I thought this was a Playstation thread but some of you seem hell bent on turning it into an anti MS / Xone thread (I think you are the ones that have some growing up to do).

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post #12625 of 17709 Old 01-22-2014, 07:25 PM
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post #12626 of 17709 Old 01-22-2014, 07:33 PM
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My God, man. I must have struck a nerve. I've never played the One and I've played the 360 for less than an hour. I am a Sony man because it's the first console I learned anything about as an adult interested in rekindliing his childhood interest in gaming. I quickly realized as a working man with a wife and kids, I wouldn't be able to justify the purchase of two consoles. I don't have a bad word to say about Microsoft's product, and if memory serves, I don't believe I've made a single disparaging remark about any of their consoles in this forum. If you can find one- I'll apologize.

And I, for one, am happy that they're doing so well with their current product. It's good for any gamer. Honestly, it seems as if we're in a Console Golden age.

The reason that I'm flirting with this thread derail is to, once again, show you that you're the one causing the problems here. Why in the world can the adults in this thread not discuss these things? Why is it that you continue to be offended? Have I missed the post where someone has belittled someone for purchasing a One? Did I miss the insensitive post that resorted to name calling? Do you believe we should not mention the merits of BOTH consoles and a comparison of the two? Might these comparisons help a potential console buyer who's on the fence decide which console is perfect for his needs? Are we not allowed to discuss public corporations being held accountable for what legion gamers have claimed is bad for gamers as a collective? Did those discussions not lead to a reversal of a corporation's original business model, arguably leading to a better product launch?

As the kids say, seriously?
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post #12627 of 17709 Old 01-22-2014, 07:44 PM
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post #12628 of 17709 Old 01-22-2014, 07:52 PM
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For those who might have been passing on Tomb Raider and aren't following the official thread, 1080p 60fps was just confirmed for the PS4 version. I made the joke that I would pay $1 per frame when it was supposed to be 30fps... I may regret that one once Digital Foundry confirms it.

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=756518
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post #12629 of 17709 Old 01-22-2014, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by tsaville View Post

I agree that launching without compelling software for kinect 2.0 was a big mistake, but I'm hoping they rectify that in the coming months.

I critiqued the Playstation Eye on a different site for not being a robust enough camera for the Move. People didn't get what I was saying.
The Kinect 2 optics is what Sony should have used for the Eye. Honestly, it's really surprising as Sony actually engineers and produces glass and sensors to make cameras.
I barely touched the Kinect and Eye camera, maybe because so few games? Maybe there were so few games because the Kinect and Eye were low-class webcams? chicken and the egg issue there.

Still waiting for a light-saber game using the Move.
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post #12630 of 17709 Old 01-22-2014, 07:59 PM
 
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Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

For those who might have been passing on Tomb Raider and aren't following the official thread, 1080p 60fps was just confirmed for the PS4 version. I made the joke that I would pay $1 per frame when it was supposed to be 30fps... I may regret that one once Digital Foundry confirms it.

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=756518

Just go to Walmart and you can pay the average FPS
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