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post #1261 of 17415 Old 05-29-2013, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by freemeat View Post

Haha, no way. I'd buy two.

So he expects the Xbone to be more with inferior hardwared and on top having to pay for Live to play online. Yeah, that makes a heck of a lot of sense. The 360 is already a far more expensive system if you want to play online .

That kinect won't be cheap to make.

I still don't think the eye will be bundled in the lower SKU. They didnt show a single shred of game or UI functionality that required it at the reveal, its not a tentpole for the PS4 like the kinect is. I bet there will be a higher priced bundle that includes it though, along with a bigger HDD, maybe a move or second controller too.

I can definitely believe there can be a PS4 model that's cheaper than the cheapest x1.

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post #1262 of 17415 Old 05-29-2013, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by freemeat View Post

Haha, no way. I'd buy two.

So he expects the Xbone to be more with inferior hardwared and on top having to pay for Live to play online. Yeah, that makes a heck of a lot of sense. The 360 is already a far more expensive system if you want to play online .
I can't read the article here at work, but I would guess that he expects the XB1 to sell well at launch due to it being the hot commodity in the US. Xbox is way more popular here, and I am sure that they are banking on people just going out and buying the new one. And on the live argument, your account will carry over and lots of people just go out and buy cards when there is a deal on, so it may not be a cost up front for some. It wouldn't be for me, because mine doesn't expire until next year some time.

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post #1263 of 17415 Old 05-29-2013, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by americangunner View Post

I can't read the article here at work, but I would guess that he expects the XB1 to sell well at launch due to it being the hot commodity in the US. Xbox is way more popular here, and I am sure that they are banking on people just going out and buying the new one. And on the live argument, your account will carry over and lots of people just go out and buy cards when there is a deal on, so it may not be a cost up front for some. It wouldn't be for me, because mine doesn't expire until next year some time.

He expects both to sell out. I expect the same. Neither will probably be able to pump out enough boxes to meet demand, that's just how consoles launches go unless you have an incredibly weak launch lineup, which I doubt either will have. The first few months will say more about the efficiency of their supply chain than the popularity of either console. Any sort of comparative sales data to judge that needs to wait until they're just sitting on shelves....that could take many months if they're as affordable as he thinks.

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post #1264 of 17415 Old 05-29-2013, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

He expects both to sell out. I expect the same. Neither will probably be able to pump out enough boxes to meet demand, that's just how consoles launches go unless you have an incredibly weak launch lineup, which I doubt either will have. The first few months will say more about the efficiency of their supply chain than the popularity of either console. Any sort of comparative sales data to judge that needs to wait until they're just sitting on shelves....that could take many months if they're as affordable as he thinks.
Thanks BD. I am sure I will try to jump on and check out a few linked stories on here tonight, like the one on the Xbox thread about MS supporting indie devs. I really do want to keep an open mind when it comes to deciding which of the two consoles to buy first and support for the next couple of years before I buy the other one.

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post #1265 of 17415 Old 05-29-2013, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

That kinect won't be cheap to make.

I still don't think the eye will be bundled in the lower SKU. They didnt show a single shred of game or UI functionality that required it at the reveal, its not a tentpole for the PS4 like the kinect is. I bet there will be a higher priced bundle that includes it though, along with a bigger HDD, maybe a move or second controller too.

I can definitely believe there can be a PS4 model that's cheaper than the cheapest x1.

True, I wasn't really expecting Sony to package it in either. That very well could be why the Xbox One could cost more. Would be a shame since I have zero desire for Kinect 2.0 after having used one on the 360. Same goes for the Sony Eye.
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Originally Posted by americangunner View Post

I can't read the article here at work, but I would guess that he expects the XB1 to sell well at launch due to it being the hot commodity in the US. Xbox is way more popular here, and I am sure that they are banking on people just going out and buying the new one. And on the live argument, your account will carry over and lots of people just go out and buy cards when there is a deal on, so it may not be a cost up front for some. It wouldn't be for me, because mine doesn't expire until next year some time.

Fully agreed on the Live front, that pricing point worked well for MS with the 360. Most people don't look at the big picture; they see PS3 at x dollars and 360 at less and don't factor in what the real costs are associated with each system (which makes the 360 costs more). It worked this gen, so why would MS change.

I'm not sure I'd be so confident in MS outperforming Sony in the U.S. for the next gen if priced above the PS4, especially if the specs are indeed quite a bit less as most people seem to believe. MS had a 1 year head start last gen which gave them quite a bit of room to build a base. Yes bases do carry over but nothing is guaranteed as we see with the Wii U for example and PS2/PS3 (people wanted HD and MS offered it a year ahead as the only choice).

If Xbone does come out $50 more it will be very interesting to see what happens after supply constraints are worked out.
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post #1266 of 17415 Old 05-29-2013, 04:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, the default would be either the two halves of each touch surface in games that don't use the touchpad, or quadrants and tap to click.

Neither sound ideal, so hopefully the mandate forces dev to give a damn and come up with better solutions when vita mode is enabled.

We already have examples with the PS3--->Vita remote play and it works really well. Keep in mind developers have access to the rear AND front touch screen to implement their control schemes.

- In Guacamelee, you use an extra button to change into a chicken on the PS3, but on the Vita you simply swipe up or down anywhere you want on the front touch screen.

- In Gravity Rush (Vita exclusive) they have one cool mechanic where you can have your hero switch from running through the streets to sliding around baseball-style for added speed You activate it and accelerate the turbo slide by holding both lower corners of the front touch screen. Releasing one corner keeeps you sliding forward, but allows for sharper cornering. Steering is done with motion controls of the Vita unit.

I don't anticipate in major issues with this mandate for PS4 games to be supported on the Vita. Hopefully there are a good amount of developers to take things a step further by adding extra functions to the Vita as you play the PS4 itself. Guacamelee lets you use the handheld as your map screen so you don't need to switch back and forth when playing on the HDTV. It's a great feature.

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post #1267 of 17415 Old 05-29-2013, 04:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by metallicaband View Post

That GIF is Sexy!!

http://www.gamezone.com/news/2013/05/29/pachter-both-the-ps4-and-xbox-one-will-sell-out-at-launch

$350 for launch PS4 lol? I can't see it happening to be honest specially if PS Eye is bundled, I still believe $450 is the sweet spot. If the console didn't sell out @ 350 (if the launch lineup was good enough), nothing will make it happen.
Agreed. The PS4 at $450 seems like a far safer bet, with a decent chance to launch at $500 (especially since the latest rumors say PS4 Eye is bundled).

I hope to be wrong though!

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post #1268 of 17415 Old 05-29-2013, 04:43 PM
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Yeah, I'm pretty confident this feature is going to deliver the goods. I think once people see how seamlessly it'll work its going to be a killer app for both PS4 and Vita. There shouldnt be more than 20-30 extra ms of lag, some TVs are way worse than that. On the little screen compression artifacts wont be that obvious, and there should be plenty of bandwidth on a wifi network to push out a really high quality image. The only real limitation I can potentially see is being limited to 30fps, but Sony claims the vita can decode 1080p, so it should have the horsepower to push 60fps at 540p....we'll see about that one. That .gif really captures how awesome this will be though.

Gestures are definitely one way they get around the buttons. For something like call of duty, R1/2 control the nades. A swipe up on the left side can trigger the tac nades, and a swipe on the right, the frags. Then a simple tap anywhere on the back can enable the dash, the a tap anywhere on the front for melee. I think asking people to be precise with that rear touchpad is asking too much, but so much functionality can be replaced by gestures on the front screen. They've just got to be creative.

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post #1269 of 17415 Old 05-29-2013, 04:45 PM
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Agreed. The PS4 at $450 seems like a far safer bet, with a decent chance to launch at $500 (especially since the latest rumors say PS4 Eye is bundled).

I hope to be wrong though!

I'm thinking $399 for the base and $499 for the premium.

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post #1270 of 17415 Old 05-29-2013, 06:05 PM
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The Wii U sends a 480p 60fps image with minimal compression out over a custom wifi with 32ms of lag (two frames) that is the benchmark that Sony will be trying to beat. The only thing they will have issues with is lag, I think 3-4 frames will be the average for the Vita remote play when in range of your PS4. If they allow Gaikai style broadcasting over wifi then other factors will quickly build up lag.

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post #1271 of 17415 Old 05-29-2013, 07:57 PM
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The Wii U sends a 480p 60fps image with minimal compression out over a custom wifi with 32ms of lag (two frames) that is the benchmark that Sony will be trying to beat. The only thing they will have issues with is lag, I think 3-4 frames will be the average for the Vita remote play when in range of your PS4. If they allow Gaikai style broadcasting over wifi then other factors will quickly build up lag.

Yeah, that's my main question right now....whether the vita connects directly to the PS4 over an ad hoc network, or whether it travels through your network infrastructure. Could be an option to go with either. As long as your wifi network is set up well, infrastructure shouldn't really add much lag though, and it'd free you from having to be near the PS4.

Definitely gonna try to get it working over the Internet though....won't be ideal, but still probably playable.

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post #1272 of 17415 Old 05-29-2013, 07:59 PM
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The PS Vita does have an accessory port so who knows if they'd be able to release a hand grip type of peripheral that also gives us extra buttons. I would also hope we'd be able to use the new Dual Shock. The Dual Shock wouldn't even need to communicate with the Vita. It can just communicate with the PS4 as long as your not too far away from the unit.

As for the price, I easily would have seen $400 if the specs were still 4gigs or Ram and not include the eye toy. I'd be surprised to see Sony actually willing to go to $350 for a base unit. That would be crazy but a more realistic price is probably anywhere from $400 to $450. For sure $500 (for a base unit) would be just as insane as $350. We'll see what happens. Personally I'd love to see the $350 price just so it can increase the chances of me getting it day 1.
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post #1273 of 17415 Old 05-29-2013, 08:02 PM
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Maybe it's just me but I have less than zero desire for any cross platform play, remote play, etc.. I'm apathetic towards the Vita for the same reasons I ultimately ended up giving up on my PSP: it's not what I consider a portable system. The Vita is better in this regard since there's no physical media but I think the whole "portable console graphics" approach Sony took is the wrong one. It's one reason I can appreciate what Nintendo has traditionally done with their handhelds. There's been a distinct difference in portable versus console and aside from some random examples of trying to tie the two platforms together (all which eventually fail) their portables have understood the difference and generally stuck to it. Then again maybe I'm just a nostalgic 2d fan and enjoy the fact that these games have excelled on the GBA and DS. The PSP/Vita seem to want to be too much and end up suffering for it.

Saying that, I can see the benefits for those that want to take advantage of the two and if there can be unique gameplay moments between them then all the better. I just don't think it's going to amount to much.
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post #1274 of 17415 Old 05-29-2013, 08:24 PM
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Owning a Wii U and using off TV play shows just how useful the feature is, and if Sony can come close to the ease of play that the Wii U offers then they might sell me on a Vita for that alone.

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post #1275 of 17415 Old 05-29-2013, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Owning a Wii U and using off TV play shows just how useful the feature is, and if Sony can come close to the ease of play that the Wii U offers then they might sell me on a Vita for that alone.

Yeah, in order for this feature to really shine, you have to be able to set it and forget it. My PS4 will be in my basement, my vita in my living room. If I can just pick up the Vita, launch the PS4 app, have that automatically wake the PS4 and get right into the game without ever going near the PS4....then its an epic win. If I have to go downstairs to turn on my PS4 and enable Vita mode on the PS4 itself....basically a total fail.

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post #1276 of 17415 Old 05-29-2013, 08:38 PM
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Yeah, in order for this feature to really shine, you have to be able to set it and forget it. My PS4 will be in my basement, my vita in my living room. If I can just pick up the Vita, launch the PS4 app, have that automatically wake the PS4 and get right into the game without ever going near the PS4....then its an epic win. If I have to go downstairs to turn on my PS4 and enable Vita mode on the PS4 itself....basically a total fail.
If they manage that, then I will buy a Vita. My new home has the Wii U too far away from my bedroom and bathroom for the off TV play to truly shine. (I may relocate the Wii U, but I want to play on my 70inch, not my 40inch when I can) If they manage a sub 6 frame lag for over wifi network play away from the console, then I will be very interested.

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post #1277 of 17415 Old 05-29-2013, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

If they manage that, then I will buy a Vita. My new home has the Wii U too far away from my bedroom and bathroom for the off TV play to truly shine. (I may relocate the Wii U, but I want to play on my 70inch, not my 40inch when I can) If they manage a sub 6 frame lag for over wifi network play away from the console, then I will be very interested.

Its all local network, the wifi hop itself shouldnt add more than 1-2ms lag or so vs direct to the ps4. That's assuming you have a perfectly setup network with little interference, the ps4 is hardwired and the vita is close to a WAP....and that's not a safe assumption at all. But those are all fixable problems that aren't on the Vita's end.....theoretically, it should work quite well.

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post #1278 of 17415 Old 05-29-2013, 10:13 PM
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Day 1 buy no matter the price. Xbone will have to wait.

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post #1279 of 17415 Old 05-29-2013, 10:38 PM
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Well it's already possible to turn the PS3 on while on standby using the PS Vita so it should also be possible with the PS4.
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post #1280 of 17415 Old 05-30-2013, 12:22 AM
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I think MS Xbone bundle of a cheaper price and compulsory Xbox Live Gold subscription is a good idea that Sony should follow. As a lot of people just see the ticket price and don't make total cost calculations, heck team up with a hire purchase company and make it $50 on pickup.
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post #1281 of 17415 Old 05-30-2013, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Yeah, in order for this feature to really shine, you have to be able to set it and forget it. My PS4 will be in my basement, my vita in my living room. If I can just pick up the Vita, launch the PS4 app, have that automatically wake the PS4 and get right into the game without ever going near the PS4....then its an epic win. If I have to go downstairs to turn on my PS4 and enable Vita mode on the PS4 itself....basically a total fail.

I will say that is a more appealing scenario than just offering a second screen, etc. (ala Smartglass). That would be appealing and would make me think about a Vita.
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post #1282 of 17415 Old 05-30-2013, 08:23 AM
 
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I think MS Xbone bundle of a cheaper price and compulsory Xbox Live Gold subscription is a good idea that Sony should follow. As a lot of people just see the ticket price and don't make total cost calculations, heck team up with a hire purchase company and make it $50 on pickup.

Possibly.

Word is MS has dropped the idea of a subsidized model that would have offered a cheaper system while locking people into 2 years of LIVE at full price. I guess they already figured out that most people end up needing LIVE anyways, so why bother to drop the price of the console!

My guess is Sony might start tiering their online services. Or at the least start charging more for it. I totally expect all this social media, sharing, and rumored cross game chat to be locked into PS+; which honestly isn’t a bad thing if they keep up their value added approach to the PSN-Store.
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post #1283 of 17415 Old 05-30-2013, 08:33 AM
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Personally I'd pay a bit more for PS+ if they feature add to it. I really enjoy it as an add-on and wish MS would take a look and offer something similar. Sony's got a good thing going with + they just need to kick it up a notch.
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post #1284 of 17415 Old 05-30-2013, 08:39 AM
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Personally I'd pay a bit more for PS+ if they feature add to it. I really enjoy it as an add-on and wish MS would take a look and offer something similar. Sony's got a good thing going with + they just need to kick it up a notch.

Yep. And since the PS4 is all about games, PS Plus will probably remain that way as well. Whereas the benefits of XBL gold get spread pretty thinly across all the forms of media.

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post #1285 of 17415 Old 05-30-2013, 09:03 AM
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I am pretty sure that you will need plus to get the Gakai game streaming service.

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post #1286 of 17415 Old 05-30-2013, 09:19 AM
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I am pretty sure that you will need plus to get the Gakai game streaming service.

"Pretty sure" based on what?

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post #1287 of 17415 Old 05-30-2013, 09:26 AM - Thread Starter
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My next-gen PS+ guesses...

Free to all PS4 gamers:
+ Online play
+ Access to pay-to-play streaming services like VUDU and Netflix
+ Cross game mic chat
+ Game photo taking/sharing


PS+ members only:
- Cross game video chat
- Game video taking/ sharing
- Gaikai BC for PSOne - PS3 titles
- Universal PS4 remote play gaming on the Vita

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post #1288 of 17415 Old 05-30-2013, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by pcweber111 View Post

Maybe it's just me but I have less than zero desire for any cross platform play, remote play, etc.. I'm apathetic towards the Vita for the same reasons I ultimately ended up giving up on my PSP: it's not what I consider a portable system. The Vita is better in this regard since there's no physical media but I think the whole "portable console graphics" approach Sony took is the wrong one. It's one reason I can appreciate what Nintendo has traditionally done with their handhelds. There's been a distinct difference in portable versus console and aside from some random examples of trying to tie the two platforms together (all which eventually fail) their portables have understood the difference and generally stuck to it. Then again maybe I'm just a nostalgic 2d fan and enjoy the fact that these games have excelled on the GBA and DS. The PSP/Vita seem to want to be too much and end up suffering for it.

Saying that, I can see the benefits for those that want to take advantage of the two and if there can be unique gameplay moments between them then all the better. I just don't think it's going to amount to much.

Not just you. I want to play PS3/4 games on my big screen and that's it. Nice feature to have for those that want it, frankly why sell portable games at all if all your PS4/3 games work on the PSVita. Just build games for the far more powerful hardware then.
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- Gaikai BC for PSOne - PS3 titles

Not sure why that would be a PS+ only option. I can only assume they aren't going to be free games and for sell just like they currently sell on the PSN. I'm not talking about the fact that PS+ gives away tons of games.
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post #1289 of 17415 Old 05-30-2013, 09:44 AM - Thread Starter
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They could sell a la carte access to individual Gaikai games to non-PS+ members. PS+ members would get limited access to, say, five streamed games per month, or even pay more for full "free" access if there are PS+ tiers.

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post #1290 of 17415 Old 05-30-2013, 09:45 AM
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Take Two CEO speaks about used games:
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Speaking today during the Cowen Technology, Media, and Telecom Conference, CEO Strauss Zelnick said if Microsoft receives a cut of used game sales--as is rumored--so should Take-Two.

"There's no question that if Microsoft has figured out a way to tax used games, then we should get paid, too. It's hard to imagine why they should and we shouldn't," Zelnick said.

The next part is more interesting:
Quote:
Take-Two's stance on used games, Zelnick said, is not to "whine" about missing out on revenue, but rather to focus on creating compelling experiences so gamers do not trade their titles in.

"Our view about used games has been, as opposed to whining or figuring out ways to punish the consumer for buying used games, we've figured out we better delight the consumer," Zelnick said.

"Let's push up our quality, which you've seen in our Metacritic scores, and then let's make sure to give people DLC, often free, three or four weeks out; which is the time you're at risk for them trading in their game," he added. "If you can keep the game in consumer's hands for 8 weeks, you almost don't care anymore about used game sales because it's the first 8 weeks that really nail you."

So after the first 2-3 months, new sales taper off so far that the publisher has either made their profit or missed the mark.

"Almost not caring" after such a short time makes me think this whole used game fee/lock down strategy will be one giant waste of time for the companies that implement it. The amount of money is so small that the CEO of Take Two almost doesn't care. That speaks volumes.

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