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post #1501 of 20152 Old 06-06-2013, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post

Never going to happen. Microsoft will go out of business, before Apple does. Within the next five years, Microsoft will pretty much cease to exist in the manner that they do now, due to losing large market shares all over the board, from consumers not buying their products en-mass as they used to, since there are more choices now.

Wait, what? Yeah, back to PS4 talk...
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post #1502 of 20152 Old 06-06-2013, 08:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Defcon View Post

Sony have said the PS4 never needs to be online. In theory this means it can't block used games since there's no way to authenticate.

Now in the past Sony have gone back on their word, and they may end up doing the same DRM scheme as MS, since publishers no doubt are pushing for it. But if not, the choice is clear and nothing else really matters. Sony need to confirm this one way or the other.

PSN has always been more open than MS's walled off garden. Hell, they let valve run steam on it.

My guess, they will do what they said: They're not changing a thing (probably will still have their 1st party online passes) but will leave 3rd party DRM up to the publishers. Some publishers will shoe in their own DRM and services, like EA forcing origin authentication ala a steam/valve like setup. That means some games force you online to work, but Sony can say "thats not our fault, the publisher did". Some will do this, others won't and I won't be buying a damn thing from the ones that do. At least there's room for smart publishers to undercut the DRM ones in that model.

Hopefully others won't buy into those publishers and these companies will cut this **** off.
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post #1503 of 20152 Old 06-06-2013, 08:48 PM
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Reading up on Sony's current policy with the PS3, it is exactly the same as what they will do for the PS4, leave it up to publishers.

The big difference is Microsoft's new policy, which may encourage several (like EA) to require online and lock out content. (So more online passes) unless the publishers do the same account locks that MS is allowing, then Sony is simply the safer choice.

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post #1504 of 20152 Old 06-06-2013, 08:52 PM
 
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Well to be honest sales won't mean squat if MS greases the palms of the biggest publishers to go with them only should Sony balk (this is assuming Sony doesn't have something similar planned). I know Sony still holds sway but man I have a feeling there's about to be a lot of surprised people come E3. It's like Pandora's box. Once MS has opened it with publisher control over your games I don't see how it can be closed. They'll demand the same of Sony. I see no reason why not. Yes yes, we hold the ultimate power with our wallets but let's be realistic, it's the Xbox brand and people are still going to buy it. CoD on launch will guarantee this. Hardcore gamers might care but come on, casual CoD fans will take it home, plug it in, accept all the privacy stuff MS points out, and play the game on Live with their friends. I'm telling you it's a better than 50/50 chance this goes off without a hitch. Since most people buy so few games anyway and the publishers can make trade deals with retailers this won't stop people from trading in their old CoD game, getting the new one, and the cycle starts all over again. If MS can prove to publishers that this is a success it's game over for Sony unless they follow suit.

edit All this "Sony cares for the true gamers" mantra is pie in the sky thinking and while brilliant by Sony to capitalize on the MS flap it won't mean a thing once both announce something similar. You'll buy the PS4 because you want Uncharted 4. What's the alternative should they go with DRM like MS has?

In the end it's still one big game of chicken. Hopefully Sony comes out at E3 with the peddle pushed to the damn floor while flipping the bird out the window. Publishers would be forced to flinch, bigtime, with the ****ton of console sales Sony would wrack up for being "the next gen gamers machine".

I guess well see if Cerny is sympathetic to the industries whining, or Sony bottom line. 4 days to go.
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post #1505 of 20152 Old 06-06-2013, 09:14 PM
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If Cerney gets to make the call, then I see no issues. Always liked Naughty Dog's style and game development philosophy. (Watch the G4 Icons episode on them) heck, Naughty Dog helped Infinity Ward make CoD4 MW on the PS3 better by sharing some of the stuff they had learned making uncharted. (It was one of the few early ports that didn't look noticeably worse than the 360 version)

Their Policy on the PS3 is leave it up to the Publisher on any drm, used game locks or region locks. Looks like they are sticking to that on the PS4.

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post #1506 of 20152 Old 06-06-2013, 09:17 PM
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All this DRM talk and finally MS has put up a solid procedure. Lots of hoops to jump through, forget ebay to find that out of print title, and if you hate the full price new game you just bought there's little chance of getting anything for it. Speaking of not liking a game, rentals are completely out on Xbone. For the sake of arguement let's say Sony follows a similar route:

My game buying habits on PS3 are good for about 4 new games per year. I bought mine in 2007 and I have 29 games right now, with 2 of those being ebay purchases because I missed the first go round. Add in the 3 games I just gave away to friends (can't do that much longer, or not easily) and I'm over my average. Actually I'm way over, because I've traded in 6 games to Amazon according to my account page. Three of them were awful- Majin And The Forsaken Kingdom, Earth Defense Force: Insect Armageddon, and No More Heroes: Heroes' Paradise. The other three were worth quite a bit and I had done it all already- Killzone 2, Tomb Raider Trilogy, and Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim (I'm gonna re-buy Skyrim on the recommendation of a friend for the DLC). Regardless of my opinion of a game's worth, I've kept the vast majority of my titles and bought all but 2 of them new. Anyway, this paragraph sets up what will happen to my buying habits if Sony follows a similar DRM lockdown route.

I can guarantee that I will only be buying a fraction of what I've spent this cycle. I can see myself with one new game per year after lots of research, phone calls to friends to see if they'll join up, and waiting for the first price drop. No more impulse buys or one-clicks on Amazon- PS4 software will have me reading lots of opinions and watching lots of gameplay before I buy. Will my changed buying habits be typical? I'm grown and have a job with disposable income, but I'm not just going to throw away $60 if I can help it. How will it be for those much younger with less to spend? I think they will end up buying way less as well.

After the first couple years pass and the new wears off, I can see a console crash like Tyrant mentions above. If these companies had let discs and retail dry up on their own, since the push for downloads is only going to increase, then there would be the same result without all the needless hassle. Just like with music on CD, just like with films on DVD. This whole thing is a mess and I hope I can wander through, get to my gaming and not be annoyed at the whole process.

That's the end of my rant. Thanks for paying attention! Fingers crossed that Sony goes their own way but I won't hold my breath.
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post #1507 of 20152 Old 06-06-2013, 09:25 PM
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Wait for a deal on the Skyrim Legendary Edition, it should include all the DLC on disc on the PS3.

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post #1508 of 20152 Old 06-06-2013, 09:41 PM
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http://m.cinemablend.com/games/It-Official-PS4-Feature-Used-Game-DRM-Like-Xbox-One-56264.html
Interesting read. Pretty much stuff I think we know.

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post #1509 of 20152 Old 06-06-2013, 10:31 PM
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The video on the bottom of that article in your link was funny.

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post #1510 of 20152 Old 06-06-2013, 11:29 PM
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So, how happy or sad do you think this thread will be next Tuesday ?


Sony is my only hope right now for the future of console gaming, but it's so hard for me to imagine that collusion hasn't already taken place. Microsoft would be committing product suicide with their requirements if they didn't already know that Sony is going to follow them at least 80 percent of the way there.

Otherwise, Sony would have the victory in the bag. I just can't imagine MS doing all this if they hadn't already worked out some type of agreement with Sony. Nintendo is the only one that doesn't have anything to do with this. Maybe they could get the Feds to look into an anti-trust situation over this.
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post #1511 of 20152 Old 06-07-2013, 01:12 AM
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The Nintendo boards will be happy for sure, Smash, Mario Kart and 3D Mario are confirmed after all.

Sony will come down to the DRM they actually use on the large scale.

Microsoft... I really can't think of a single reason to get excited, every single thing Microsoft has said since the 21st has been one disaster after another.

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post #1512 of 20152 Old 06-07-2013, 01:19 AM
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If Sony offered a DRM free PS4, they'll destroy the Xbone very badly, publishers will make games for the console that has more users, whether they like it or not.

Xbone will fail so much outside of the US it's not even funny.

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post #1513 of 20152 Old 06-07-2013, 03:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

So, how happy or sad do you think this thread will be next Tuesday ?


Sony is my only hope right now for the future of console gaming, but it's so hard for me to imagine that collusion hasn't already taken place. Microsoft would be committing product suicide with their requirements if they didn't already know that Sony is going to follow them at least 80 percent of the way there.

Otherwise, Sony would have the victory in the bag. I just can't imagine MS doing all this if they hadn't already worked out some type of agreement with Sony. Nintendo is the only one that doesn't have anything to do with this. Maybe they could get the Feds to look into an anti-trust situation over this.

Pretty happy, I think. Sony is going to dodge the bullet by not getting in the middle. On the surface, it will sound just like the PS3 days.

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post #1514 of 20152 Old 06-07-2013, 06:41 AM
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I just want E3 to hurry up and get here so I can place my order on Amazon. That way my PS3 will officially be in its last days. The Last of Us is going to be amazing, sure, but after that, it's really time for some better graphics. And I can't wait for them.

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post #1515 of 20152 Old 06-07-2013, 06:48 AM
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I can't help but echo what others are saying across the XBOX and PS boards; I really feel like Microsoft is answering the question nobody asked, and Sony is at the front of the class looking at a 'A'. E3 this year will be one of the most anticipated and discussed in many many years. I have a staff member who is actually taking off just to absorb the whole thing.

As it stands right now, Sony is going to be getting my money.
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post #1516 of 20152 Old 06-07-2013, 06:49 AM
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3 more days. smile.gif

I'm sure I will pre-order with Gamestop. I have an extra PS3 to trade in, plus some giftcards to take care of some of the costs. Looking forward to getting the PS4

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post #1517 of 20152 Old 06-07-2013, 07:02 AM
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Sony as already mentioned that they will be DRM free and they did not require an internet connection but Nothing is going to stop a publisher from embedding their games such that it requires you to access their servers for verification or game play and their restrictions can be as harsh as they wish.

Blizzard has done that with Diablo III for PC , you can't play the game (even the single player ) without a connection. Steam has also done this to some extent but they at least do allow you to play without a connection. But in both of these cases you can't resell your games (in the usual sense) but you can sell your accounts. So in a way the MS DRM policy which allows the 1 time transfer of a game is better then what has been implemented on the PC in that it allows you to sell it once .

Sony could always step in and set a standard which would eliminate the possibility of very restrictive DRM polices, but I think they are just taking the hands off approach. That's fine with me .
You just need to understand what you are purchasing , for me if the game is not MP then it needs to be playable offline.

The X1 lost me with the mandatory internet connection, There were times in the past when I have had to give up my broadband to pay the electric bill and believe it or not there at a bunch of people out there who can't afford a $30-$50 month Broadband bill, ontop of cable, electric , phone, etc.... BB is not a necessity and should not be a requirement.

I have never owned any PS console before, I have gone from my Odyssey (complete with screen covers) to my Bally Astrocad (which I still have) to Nintendo to Xbox so it looks like this will be my first PS( as long as sony doesn't do something stupid) so looking forward to E3
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post #1518 of 20152 Old 06-07-2013, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crash44 View Post

All this DRM talk and finally MS has put up a solid procedure. Lots of hoops to jump through, forget ebay to find that out of print title, and if you hate the full price new game you just bought there's little chance of getting anything for it. Speaking of not liking a game, rentals are completely out on Xbone. For the sake of arguement let's say Sony follows a similar route:

My game buying habits on PS3 are good for about 4 new games per year. I bought mine in 2007 and I have 29 games right now, with 2 of those being ebay purchases because I missed the first go round. Add in the 3 games I just gave away to friends (can't do that much longer, or not easily) and I'm over my average. Actually I'm way over, because I've traded in 6 games to Amazon according to my account page. Three of them were awful- Majin And The Forsaken Kingdom, Earth Defense Force: Insect Armageddon, and No More Heroes: Heroes' Paradise. The other three were worth quite a bit and I had done it all already- Killzone 2, Tomb Raider Trilogy, and Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim (I'm gonna re-buy Skyrim on the recommendation of a friend for the DLC). Regardless of my opinion of a game's worth, I've kept the vast majority of my titles and bought all but 2 of them new. Anyway, this paragraph sets up what will happen to my buying habits if Sony follows a similar DRM lockdown route.

I can guarantee that I will only be buying a fraction of what I've spent this cycle. I can see myself with one new game per year after lots of research, phone calls to friends to see if they'll join up, and waiting for the first price drop. No more impulse buys or one-clicks on Amazon- PS4 software will have me reading lots of opinions and watching lots of gameplay before I buy. Will my changed buying habits be typical? I'm grown and have a job with disposable income, but I'm not just going to throw away $60 if I can help it. How will it be for those much younger with less to spend? I think they will end up buying way less as well.

After the first couple years pass and the new wears off, I can see a console crash like Tyrant mentions above. If these companies had let discs and retail dry up on their own, since the push for downloads is only going to increase, then there would be the same result without all the needless hassle. Just like with music on CD, just like with films on DVD. This whole thing is a mess and I hope I can wander through, get to my gaming and not be annoyed at the whole process.

That's the end of my rant. Thanks for paying attention! Fingers crossed that Sony goes their own way but I won't hold my breath.

Yep. I plan on being VERY picky with my game purchases next gen.

Too many systems and games....not enough time or money!

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post #1519 of 20152 Old 06-07-2013, 07:17 AM
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Sony as already mentioned that they will be DRM free and they did not require an internet connection but Nothing is going to stop a publisher from embedding their games such that it requires you to access their servers for verification or game play and their restrictions can be as harsh as they wish.

And you can already figure on the likely suspects to do this: EA, Activision, Capcom come to mind first. I anticipate, like with PS3, the vast majority of my purchases being PS exclusives, so as long as Sony doesn't embed their own software with this DRM crap, I'm good. I plan on building a decent PC rig for third party titles and PC exclusives anyways. Microsoft thus far has given no reason to buy an xbox one, and based on their current IPs( of course they could introduce some really good ones next gen) I can do without more Halo or Gears. I've over both of those series.

Too many systems and games....not enough time or money!

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post #1520 of 20152 Old 06-07-2013, 07:30 AM
 
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heh, remember when Sony was the bad guy for embeding DRM Rootkits on audio cd's?
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post #1521 of 20152 Old 06-07-2013, 07:32 AM
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Capcom has been getting better lately, Dragon's Dogma shipped with on disc DLC, it was one of the last. The recent Dark Arisen expansion included all the dlc, the full game, and free dlc for people who played the first one.

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post #1522 of 20152 Old 06-07-2013, 07:56 AM
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I really hope Sony comes out good. If not, I will just go PC. At least there I can get games for cheap on steam. It would make up for the initial cost.

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post #1523 of 20152 Old 06-07-2013, 07:59 AM
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If Microsoft has all games in the cloud... why wouldnt you be able to rent from there instead of redbox ?

The days of renting a game on redbox, and burning a copy, are gone.

But renting should can still work on the new model.
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post #1524 of 20152 Old 06-07-2013, 08:02 AM
 
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But renting should can still work on the new model.

Yup. It'll be only be more of a hassle, cost more, and only be offered by MS + the publisher.

But thats great news for you consumer! We can have a direct relationship, rather then you dealing with those shady bussinesses around the corner!

Why do I feel like Fink Enterprises is secretly running MS?
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post #1525 of 20152 Old 06-07-2013, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by defdog99 View Post

If Microsoft has all games in the cloud... why wouldnt you be able to rent from there instead of redbox ?

The days of renting a game on redbox, and burning a copy, are gone.

But renting should can still work on the new model.

This may happen, except if MS is truly in the hands of the devs and pubs. They do not want rentals. I personally think this is more MS than anything. At least with the PS4, I know that I will not have a plastic brick if I do not have an internet connection. Sony games will always work.
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post #1526 of 20152 Old 06-07-2013, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by defdog99 View Post

If Microsoft has all games in the cloud... why wouldnt you be able to rent from there instead of redbox ?

The days of renting a game on redbox, and burning a copy, are gone.

But renting should can still work on the new model.

Because they'd rather have you pay full price.

I could see rentals happening for older games though. No way for new titles.

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post #1527 of 20152 Old 06-07-2013, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

Yup. It'll be only be more of a hassle, cost more, and only be offered by MS + the publisher.

But thats great news for you consumer! We can have a direct relationship, rather then you dealing with those shady bussinesses around the corner!

Why do I feel like Fink Enterprises is secretly running MS?

TyrantII, you are seriously deluded. MS is all about us, the consumer. Every change they make is to make our life, better, easier and cheaper. They are our friends.
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post #1528 of 20152 Old 06-07-2013, 08:09 AM
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The days of renting a game on redbox, and burning a copy, are gone.

Just give 'em a few months -- the hackers always win. But you're right, you won't even need to go to Redbox; you'll be able to download a copy right off the internet.

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post #1529 of 20152 Old 06-07-2013, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

So, how happy or sad do you think this thread will be next Tuesday ?


Sony is my only hope right now for the future of console gaming, but it's so hard for me to imagine that collusion hasn't already taken place. Microsoft would be committing product suicide with their requirements if they didn't already know that Sony is going to follow them at least 80 percent of the way there.

Otherwise, Sony would have the victory in the bag. I just can't imagine MS doing all this if they hadn't already worked out some type of agreement with Sony. Nintendo is the only one that doesn't have anything to do with this. Maybe they could get the Feds to look into an anti-trust situation over this.
GameStop's initial statement on used game was that there would be used game sales for Xbox One and PS4. Do you think it's coincidence that they mentioned that? I don't... I think both companies have already discussed how all of this is going to work with GameStop. Proof of that is how GameStop immediately sent out an e-mail explaining used games on Xbox One the second Microsoft posted it.

We also know that during Sony's conference, the developer interviews mention being able to change games instantly without changing discs. Then you have Cerny telling Gamasutra that the games won't play from the Blu-ray discs but will background install to the HDD as you play, in much the same way as downloadable games will let you start playing after only a fraction has been downloaded. If anyone can think of a non-DRM way that those two things are going to happen on PS4, I have yet to hear it. So I suspect that for now, Sony is just letting Microsoft take the brunt of the nerd rage so they can come in later and say, "Well, we do have some of this system in place, but with slightly less restrictions." Then, even if people are still thrown off by this change to a digital paradigm, they still look like more of a good guy. Hopefully, Sony will clarify this soon. I just don't think Microsoft pulled this out of thin air given the potential blowback. Could be that it's just a necessary evil for a console where you can suspend/resume games instantly and change between them on the fly. Or could be that the publishers are tired of GameStop leeching off their first month sales by pushing used games so aggressively. Either way, change is coming...

"Never believe any quote you read on the internet." - Abraham Lincoln
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post #1530 of 20152 Old 06-07-2013, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeremy Anderson View Post

GameStop's initial statement on used game was that there would be used game sales for Xbox One and PS4. Do you think it's coincidence that they mentioned that? I don't... I think both companies have already discussed how all of this is going to work with GameStop. Proof of that is how GameStop immediately sent out an e-mail explaining used games on Xbox One the second Microsoft posted it.

We also know that during Sony's conference, the developer interviews mention being able to change games instantly without changing discs. Then you have Cerny telling Gamasutra that the games won't play from the Blu-ray discs but will background install to the HDD as you play, in much the same way as downloadable games will let you start playing after only a fraction has been downloaded. If anyone can think of a non-DRM way that those two things are going to happen on PS4, I have yet to hear it. So I suspect that for now, Sony is just letting Microsoft take the brunt of the nerd rage so they can come in later and say, "Well, we do have some of this system in place, but with slightly less restrictions." Then, even if people are still thrown off by this change to a digital paradigm, they still look like more of a good guy. Hopefully, Sony will clarify this soon. I just don't think Microsoft pulled this out of thin air given the potential blowback. Could be that it's just a necessary evil for a console where you can suspend/resume games instantly and change between them on the fly. Or could be that the publishers are tired of GameStop leeching off their first month sales by pushing used games so aggressively. Either way, change is coming...

Sony has said that they will not require an internet connection but publishers can require it. Are you saying that Sony is lying?
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