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post #16801 of 18278 Old 06-14-2014, 07:15 PM
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Wait for a Sunset Overdrive bundle.
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post #16802 of 18278 Old 06-14-2014, 07:18 PM
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I stopped posting in the xbox area when they cried about us calling it an xbone, and cried over people like me complaining about all the xbone's features. The opinions of most of the people during that time, made me realize I don't want to converse with them.

I rarely posted in the PS forums last gen, even though I owned one. Most of my playing was still done on the 360 and PC with a few exclusives for PS3.

I almost buckled and got one of the new kinectless xbones, but I knew I shouldn't. There's no games for me and xbox live isn't worth as much, to me, as it used to be. I'm going to hold out for a while longer. I think I'll give my OG 360 to my nephew.
That was my issue, the constant personal attacks are why I stopped posting. The lack of moderation doing anything about it was the final push. Not to mention the people that were clearly paid to post by Microsoft...
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post #16803 of 18278 Old 06-14-2014, 07:54 PM
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I stopped posting in the xbox area when they cried about us calling it an xbone, and cried over people like me complaining about all the xbone's features. The opinions of most of the people during that time, made me realize I don't want to converse with them.

I rarely posted in the PS forums last gen, even though I owned one. Most of my playing was still done on the 360 and PC with a few exclusives for PS3.

I almost buckled and got one of the new kinectless xbones, but I knew I shouldn't. There's no games for me and xbox live isn't worth as much, to me, as it used to be. I'm going to hold out for a while longer. I think I'll give my OG 360 to my nephew.

I feel their pain though. It sucks when everyone is shitting on something you dig, cause it changes the whole vibe. But the Xbox one was obviously controversial, so that was bound to happen. But if the tables were turned it wouldn't be any different over on "this side."

Either way, this is kinda the wrong place to start a fan club anyway.

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post #16804 of 18278 Old 06-14-2014, 11:13 PM
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But if the tables were turned I'd be on the other side. I can't honestly remember any console gen where I liked them all equally. Back in the day I hated Sega and was all about Nintendo. Had both then too. Spent more time on my PS1 than my N64. I think its just natural to align with the one you prefer. I like being able to discuss the whole thing, good and bad without bound panties but that seems difficult....
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post #16805 of 18278 Old 06-15-2014, 05:27 AM
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I stopped posting in the xbox area when they cried about us calling it an xbone, and cried over people like me complaining about all the xbone's features. The opinions of most of the people during that time, made me realize I don't want to converse with them.

I rarely posted in the PS forums last gen, even though I owned one. Most of my playing was still done on the 360 and PC with a few exclusives for PS3.

I almost buckled and got one of the new kinectless xbones, but I knew I shouldn't. There's no games for me and xbox live isn't worth as much, to me, as it used to be. I'm going to hold out for a while longer. I think I'll give my OG 360 to my nephew.
Yeah, I don't even go there any longer. I have no intention of turning on my xbox and/or picking up a XBone. I was really turned off to that area during the last E3 as I was really disappointed in what the XBone was.

Think about about to pull the trigger on trading in a 360 and PS3 and picking up a Wii U. My kids are getting to game playing age and I'd like to play something with them than Battlefield.

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post #16806 of 18278 Old 06-15-2014, 06:36 AM
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But if the tables were turned I'd be on the other side. I can't honestly remember any console gen where I liked them all equally. Back in the day I hated Sega and was all about Nintendo. Had both then too. Spent more time on my PS1 than my N64. I think its just natural to align with the one you prefer. I like being able to discuss the whole thing, good and bad without bound panties but that seems difficult....
I prefer the XBOne to my PS4 but I don't see the issue with posting in both forums. I've been calling it an XBOne for a long time only because it's easier to type. For me the PS4 is a huge difference over the PS3. I tried several games with the PS3 and hated them all because of the controller. WIth the PS4 they finally have a controller that rivals the XBOne controller. I still like the XBOne controller better, but I can use the PS4 controller for hours and not have to worry about hand issues. My only compliant is the battery life. It is just too short. I get around 3x the battery life from my XBOne controller with the Nyko batteries than I do with the PS4 controller. I was playing the Destiny Alpha yesterday and my controller died in the middle, right when I was in a battle.

Overall I will still get most of my games on the XBOne since to me, my experience has been better on that system than the PS4. But the PS4 has some good games coming out too. I will probably get Destiny on the PS4 because one, I will be more used to the PS4 controller with the game, and two, the PS4 is supposed to have more or early access to content. Although if I like Destiny extremely well, I might pick it up on both consoles. But with all the games coming out later this year I want to pick up on both systems, I don't think I will have the time to play the same game on both systems.

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post #16807 of 18278 Old 06-15-2014, 06:42 AM
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Now after setting up an SSD with both of my XBOnes, I need to think about swapping out the platter drive in my PS4. Things are just too slow with a platter drive. The speed difference with the SSD on the XBOne is really nice. And after playing Destiny Alpha yesterday, on the PS4, load times are too slow with a platter drive. So does anything special need to be done with an SSD? Is a specific size needed? Is there a thread on how to add a drive to the PS4?

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post #16808 of 18278 Old 06-15-2014, 06:56 AM
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Now after setting up an SSD with both of my XBOnes, I need to think about swapping out the platter drive in my PS4. Things are just too slow with a platter drive. The speed difference with the SSD on the XBOne is really nice. And after playing Destiny Alpha yesterday, on the PS4, load times are too slow with a platter drive. So does anything special need to be done with an SSD? Is a specific size needed? Is there a thread on how to add a drive to the PS4?
Just make sure it is a bigger drive, I think 160GB is the smallest drive a PS4 will accept. May as well go 500GB or more if making the jump.
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post #16809 of 18278 Old 06-15-2014, 07:10 AM
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Now after setting up an SSD with both of my XBOnes, I need to think about swapping out the platter drive in my PS4. Things are just too slow with a platter drive. The speed difference with the SSD on the XBOne is really nice. And after playing Destiny Alpha yesterday, on the PS4, load times are too slow with a platter drive. So does anything special need to be done with an SSD? Is a specific size needed? Is there a thread on how to add a drive to the PS4?
Just make sure it is a bigger drive, I think 160GB is the smallest drive a PS4 will accept. May as well go 500GB or more if making the jump.
Do you just need to put in a blank drive and the PS4 does the rest? I would like to put in a 1TB drive but the prices are still high. When the crucial MX100 is $200 again for the 512GB version, I think I will pick up one of those for my PS4. I figure I could always swap it out down the road when 1TB SSD prices are much lower.

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post #16810 of 18278 Old 06-15-2014, 07:41 AM
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Now after setting up an SSD with both of my XBOnes, I need to think about swapping out the platter drive in my PS4. Things are just too slow with a platter drive. The speed difference with the SSD on the XBOne is really nice. And after playing Destiny Alpha yesterday, on the PS4, load times are too slow with a platter drive. So does anything special need to be done with an SSD? Is a specific size needed? Is there a thread on how to add a drive to the PS4?

PS4: How to update FW via USB / Install a new HDD

The files you need on the USB I am assuming are updated but either way I think the PS4 will update the system after you install.

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post #16811 of 18278 Old 06-15-2014, 07:43 AM
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Do you just need to put in a blank drive and the PS4 does the rest? I would like to put in a 1TB drive but the prices are still high. When the crucial MX100 is $200 again for the 512GB version, I think I will pick up one of those for my PS4. I figure I could always swap it out down the road when 1TB SSD prices are much lower.
I think the drive can't be taller than 9.5mm, if I remember correctly.

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post #16812 of 18278 Old 06-15-2014, 07:48 AM
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Also if you want to compare some load times between drives here is the gaf thread.


http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=716288

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post #16813 of 18278 Old 06-15-2014, 08:08 AM
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Also if you want to compare some load times between drives here is the gaf thread.


http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=716288
Thanks!!

It sounds like I might just need to get an SSHD instead of an SSD. It sounds like an SSD with the PS4 might not see as big an improvement as it does with the XBOne.

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post #16814 of 18278 Old 06-15-2014, 08:10 AM
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Also if you want to compare some load times between drives here is the gaf thread.


http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=716288
Thanks!!

It sounds like I might just need to get an SSHD instead of an SSD. It sounds like an SSD with the PS4 might not see as big an improvement as it does with the XBOne.
I thought about upgrading to an SSD a month ago but googling up speed comparisons changed my mind. I'll just wait for a 2TB SSHD.

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post #16815 of 18278 Old 06-15-2014, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by emartins View Post
Also if you want to compare some load times between drives here is the gaf thread.





http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=716288


Thanks!!



It sounds like I might just need to get an SSHD instead of an SSD. It sounds like an SSD with the PS4 might not see as big an improvement as it does with the XBOne.

I don't see why it would be any different.

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post #16816 of 18278 Old 06-15-2014, 10:59 AM
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Alright then. I'm officially an xboner...got the Kinectless box with a used copy of TF and 4 months Live for about $130 with my trades. It really was a 50/50 toss up between WiiU and xbone but in the end the 50% trade pushed me I guess. Would have cost roughly the same either way. All told the bone itself ran me $50...

First thoughts, this controller sucks. The DS4 is much better. This cheap pos headset is better than the PS4 ear bud, and thats not a compliment. Text entry is awfully sluggish, how is this worse than the 360? About to fire off TF but so far I'm dam glad I picked PS4 as my main console. Will be nice for the handful of exclusives I care about.

Edit: Holy crap TF just doesn't look or play that great. Seemed like I had odd hiccups but not lag I don't think. It sure isn't the hype. Definitely not impressed. Lazy Im getting PvZ on the PS4 if I get it.
Sounds like you should have did what I did. Hold off on the second console purchase. Gamestop is getting aggressive at getting people in these new consoles and I am/was tempted to get a PS4 this way. Trade in my PS3 (sans dust, lol) and some other odds and ends and hopefully get a PS4 for around sub 200 but there isn't anything there for me yet as far as games go. The way I see it if I have to convince myself to take the deal then obviously I should get the message.

Other parts of your posts are your opinions so no need to go into that but to say I disagree with about just every point. One point though is texting with the controller is sluggish. Hence I use the smartglass app on my cellphone to text which I find much better that using a controller. I'd use the PS4's phone app to do the same should I get it.

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post #16817 of 18278 Old 06-15-2014, 12:21 PM
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post #16818 of 18278 Old 06-15-2014, 03:26 PM
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Is there a high res downloadable link for the dead island 2 trailer? I want to hold on to that one.

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post #16819 of 18278 Old 06-15-2014, 05:34 PM
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Alright then. I'm officially an xboner...got the Kinectless box with a used copy of TF and 4 months Live for about $130 with my trades. It really was a 50/50 toss up between WiiU and xbone but in the end the 50% trade pushed me I guess. Would have cost roughly the same either way. All told the bone itself ran me $50...

First thoughts, this controller sucks. The DS4 is much better. This cheap pos headset is better than the PS4 ear bud, and thats not a compliment. Text entry is awfully sluggish, how is this worse than the 360? About to fire off TF but so far I'm dam glad I picked PS4 as my main console. Will be nice for the handful of exclusives I care about.

Edit: Holy crap TF just doesn't look or play that great. Seemed like I had odd hiccups but not lag I don't think. It sure isn't the hype. Definitely not impressed. Lazy Im getting PvZ on the PS4 if I get it.
Sounds like you should have did what I did. Hold off on the second console purchase. Gamestop is getting aggressive at getting people in these new consoles and I am/was tempted to get a PS4 this way. Trade in my PS3 (sans dust, lol) and some other odds and ends and hopefully get a PS4 for around sub 200 but there isn't anything there for me yet as far as games go. The way I see it if I have to convince myself to take the deal then obviously I should get the message.

Other parts of your posts are your opinions so no need to go into that but to say I disagree with about just every point. One point though is texting with the controller is sluggish. Hence I use the smartglass app on my cellphone to text which I find much better that using a controller. I'd use the PS4's phone app to do the same should I get it.
Everything I post is my opinion. I definitely don't expect agreement and I'm not always right. Its why I post said opinion. Not complaining just saying. This is why we have a choice in consoles. There just can't be a one size fits all.
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post #16820 of 18278 Old 06-15-2014, 06:32 PM
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Also if you want to compare some load times between drives here is the gaf thread.





http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=716288


Thanks!!



It sounds like I might just need to get an SSHD instead of an SSD. It sounds like an SSD with the PS4 might not see as big an improvement as it does with the XBOne.

I don't see why it would be any different.
All the reviews I read on the PS4 upgrades did not show much speed difference between the SSHD and the SSD. Not sure what they show for load times on the XBOne from SSDs, but in my use it was a huge difference. With the PS4, even using an SSD was not a huge difference from the stock drive. Apparently the PS4 was tuned well to use the platter 5400rpm drive that was included with it. Or at least that's what a couple of reviews I read mentioned.

I just know because of what I read, I will not get an SSD for my PS4. I will either get a 1TB SSHD 5400rpm or a 750GB 7200 rpm drive. It depends on what goes on sale. I might as well wait over the next couple of weeks to see if the drives go on sale. I know the 1TB Seagate SSHD was on sale for around $75 recently instead of the current $95. So I might just wait to get that one for my PS4. Plus it looks very easy and quick to replace the PS4 hard drive based on the two video I watched. So it's a process that shouldn't take very much time. What will take time is re-downloading all my content.

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post #16821 of 18278 Old 06-15-2014, 07:29 PM
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Anybody else spend most of their time posting in the Playstation area now, just because PS4 seems to have the "juice" at the moment ?

Hey, it's not my fault Sony is bringing the heat this time... I simply go wherever somebodies bringing the heat. No Loyalty from me.
The PS4 thread was the only thread for both objective and subjective talk before the consoles launched and it's still bizarro world on the other side.
IMO, some guys over there didn't even relent until bammo-wammo a kinectless-SKU.
That certainly has led to the xbone thread staying xbone related, unlike this thread, but I'd take off-topic talk over flagging opposing opinions.
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post #16822 of 18278 Old 06-15-2014, 09:47 PM
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Also if you want to compare some load times between drives here is the gaf thread.





http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=716288


Thanks!!



It sounds like I might just need to get an SSHD instead of an SSD. It sounds like an SSD with the PS4 might not see as big an improvement as it does with the XBOne.

I don't see why it would be any different.
All the reviews I read on the PS4 upgrades did not show much speed difference between the SSHD and the SSD. Not sure what they show for load times on the XBOne from SSDs, but in my use it was a huge difference. With the PS4, even using an SSD was not a huge difference from the stock drive. Apparently the PS4 was tuned well to use the platter 5400rpm drive that was included with it. Or at least that's what a couple of reviews I read mentioned.

I just know because of what I read, I will not get an SSD for my PS4. I will either get a 1TB SSHD 5400rpm or a 750GB 7200 rpm drive. It depends on what goes on sale. I might as well wait over the next couple of weeks to see if the drives go on sale. I know the 1TB Seagate SSHD was on sale for around $75 recently instead of the current $95. So I might just wait to get that one for my PS4. Plus it looks very easy and quick to replace the PS4 hard drive based on the two video I watched. So it's a process that shouldn't take very much time. What will take time is re-downloading all my content.
I would take most of what you read online about it with a grain of salt. I doubt the average guy posting their load times used rigorous testing methodology. The same reasons why the X1 is sped up by an SSD hold true for the PS4...there's no magical algorithm that can turn a platter drive into something competitive with an SSD. I'd also take the SSHD numbers with a grain of salt as well - they're not always repeatable, since you only get the speed gains on data that's already cached...which isn't going to help you the first time you load a level. So those performance figures you see people posting for their SSHDs won't be your real world experience the first time you play through a game.

I can tell you're willing to spend the money for the performance, so you might as well get the SSD, you'll see a similar boost like you did with the X1.

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post #16823 of 18278 Old 06-15-2014, 10:15 PM
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Also if you want to compare some load times between drives here is the gaf thread.





http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=716288


Thanks!!



It sounds like I might just need to get an SSHD instead of an SSD. It sounds like an SSD with the PS4 might not see as big an improvement as it does with the XBOne.

I don't see why it would be any different.
All the reviews I read on the PS4 upgrades did not show much speed difference between the SSHD and the SSD. Not sure what they show for load times on the XBOne from SSDs, but in my use it was a huge difference. With the PS4, even using an SSD was not a huge difference from the stock drive. Apparently the PS4 was tuned well to use the platter 5400rpm drive that was included with it. Or at least that's what a couple of reviews I read mentioned.

I just know because of what I read, I will not get an SSD for my PS4. I will either get a 1TB SSHD 5400rpm or a 750GB 7200 rpm drive. It depends on what goes on sale. I might as well wait over the next couple of weeks to see if the drives go on sale. I know the 1TB Seagate SSHD was on sale for around $75 recently instead of the current $95. So I might just wait to get that one for my PS4. Plus it looks very easy and quick to replace the PS4 hard drive based on the two video I watched. So it's a process that shouldn't take very much time. What will take time is re-downloading all my content.
I would take most of what you read online about it with a grain of salt. I doubt the average guy posting their load times used rigorous testing methodology. The same reasons why the X1 is sped up by an SSD hold true for the PS4...there's no magical algorithm that can turn a platter drive into something competitive with an SSD. I'd also take the SSHD numbers with a grain of salt as well - they're not always repeatable, since you only get the speed gains on data that's already cached...which isn't going to help you the first time you load a level. So those performance figures you see people posting for their SSHDs won't be your real world experience the first time you play through a game.

I can tell you're willing to spend the money for the performance, so you might as well get the SSD, you'll see a similar boost like you did with the X1.
I've been doing some more reading and checking more reviews on the drives. I've almost decided to get a 7200 rpm platter drive(with a Seagate 1TB SSHD 5400rpm still in the running). But i also need to decide whether I get the 1TB Hitachi or the 750GB WD Black. They are both below $70 but the Hitachi seems to have the best bang for the buck. The Seagate is $95 and more expensive. But all three drives have similar speeds. Each one beating the other in certain tests. I'm leaning toward the Hitachi though because it costs the least amount($66). And the 1TB of storage should last me a long time. But the 750GB WD Black also has a 5 year warranty instead of three so that could be a possibility too.

Of course though I'll check prices tomorrow and everything will have probably changed. At least that's how it usually works.

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post #16824 of 18278 Old 06-16-2014, 04:43 AM
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That 7200 RPM drive will introduce more heat to the system . Its not an overall hardware concern but the fan may run noticeably louder.because of it. So as long as that's not an issue the platter drive will be fine.
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That 7200 RPM drive will introduce more heat to the system . Its not an overall hardware concern but the fan may run noticeably louder.because of it. So as long as that's not an issue the platter drive will be fine.
The HGST Travelstar 7200rpm is supposed to run rather cool for a 7200rpm drive. I've read about good results with it in the PS4. The WD Black drive apparently runs a little hotter. I decided to go with HGST Travelstar one at 1TB. It was $68 from Amazon. I had prices switched earlier. The 750GB WD BLack was the one that was $66.

http://www.amazon.com/HGST-Travelsta...=IH6KA57UG335S

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post #16826 of 18278 Old 06-16-2014, 05:39 AM
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Also if you want to compare some load times between drives here is the gaf thread.





http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=716288


Thanks!!



It sounds like I might just need to get an SSHD instead of an SSD. It sounds like an SSD with the PS4 might not see as big an improvement as it does with the XBOne.

I don't see why it would be any different.
All the reviews I read on the PS4 upgrades did not show much speed difference between the SSHD and the SSD. Not sure what they show for load times on the XBOne from SSDs, but in my use it was a huge difference. With the PS4, even using an SSD was not a huge difference from the stock drive. Apparently the PS4 was tuned well to use the platter 5400rpm drive that was included with it. Or at least that's what a couple of reviews I read mentioned.

I just know because of what I read, I will not get an SSD for my PS4. I will either get a 1TB SSHD 5400rpm or a 750GB 7200 rpm drive. It depends on what goes on sale. I might as well wait over the next couple of weeks to see if the drives go on sale. I know the 1TB Seagate SSHD was on sale for around $75 recently instead of the current $95. So I might just wait to get that one for my PS4. Plus it looks very easy and quick to replace the PS4 hard drive based on the two video I watched. So it's a process that shouldn't take very much time. What will take time is re-downloading all my content.
I would take most of what you read online about it with a grain of salt. I doubt the average guy posting their load times used rigorous testing methodology. The same reasons why the X1 is sped up by an SSD hold true for the PS4...there's no magical algorithm that can turn a platter drive into something competitive with an SSD. I'd also take the SSHD numbers with a grain of salt as well - they're not always repeatable, since you only get the speed gains on data that's already cached...which isn't going to help you the first time you load a level. So those performance figures you see people posting for their SSHDs won't be your real world experience the first time you play through a game.

I can tell you're willing to spend the money for the performance, so you might as well get the SSD, you'll see a similar boost like you did with the X1.
I've been doing some more reading and checking more reviews on the drives. I've almost decided to get a 7200 rpm platter drive(with a Seagate 1TB SSHD 5400rpm still in the running). But i also need to decide whether I get the 1TB Hitachi or the 750GB WD Black. They are both below $70 but the Hitachi seems to have the best bang for the buck. The Seagate is $95 and more expensive. But all three drives have similar speeds. Each one beating the other in certain tests. I'm leaning toward the Hitachi though because it costs the least amount($66). And the 1TB of storage should last me a long time. But the 750GB WD Black also has a 5 year warranty instead of three so that could be a possibility too.

Of course though I'll check prices tomorrow and everything will have probably changed. At least that's how it usually works.

At least buy the SSHD. No point buying another platter drive unless you've filled up the stock one.

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I've already purchased the HGST 7200 rpm platter drive. The Hybrid drive doesn't really give me anything over the 7200rpm drive unless I play a bunch of smaller games consistently. Which is usually not the case. Well not the same game consistently. Plus the 1TB Seagate Hybrid drive was $27 more. And I don't do cold boots with my PS4. I use standby mode. Those are where the Hybrid drive really shines in the PS4 from what I've read.

Either way I've already purchased it from Amazon. Unless something changes drastically in the next few days I will use that for now. I could always switch to a 1TB SSD(or larger) in the future. Once those prices get cut in half again down to around $220. I plan to switch my XBOnes to those at some point, so once that price is met I might as well get one for the PS4 too.

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post #16828 of 18278 Old 06-16-2014, 05:57 AM
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I've actually decided against upgrading my drive anytime soon. The 500 seems plenty large enough for me. Many games I don't play I'll just remove (when space becomes an issue)
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I don't know how the MMO games work, but could Destiny be like 100GB or more?
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post #16830 of 18278 Old 06-16-2014, 06:34 AM
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Also if you want to compare some load times between drives here is the gaf thread.





http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=716288


Thanks!!



It sounds like I might just need to get an SSHD instead of an SSD. It sounds like an SSD with the PS4 might not see as big an improvement as it does with the XBOne.

I don't see why it would be any different.
All the reviews I read on the PS4 upgrades did not show much speed difference between the SSHD and the SSD. Not sure what they show for load times on the XBOne from SSDs, but in my use it was a huge difference. With the PS4, even using an SSD was not a huge difference from the stock drive. Apparently the PS4 was tuned well to use the platter 5400rpm drive that was included with it. Or at least that's what a couple of reviews I read mentioned.

I just know because of what I read, I will not get an SSD for my PS4. I will either get a 1TB SSHD 5400rpm or a 750GB 7200 rpm drive. It depends on what goes on sale. I might as well wait over the next couple of weeks to see if the drives go on sale. I know the 1TB Seagate SSHD was on sale for around $75 recently instead of the current $95. So I might just wait to get that one for my PS4. Plus it looks very easy and quick to replace the PS4 hard drive based on the two video I watched. So it's a process that shouldn't take very much time. What will take time is re-downloading all my content.
I would take most of what you read online about it with a grain of salt. I doubt the average guy posting their load times used rigorous testing methodology. The same reasons why the X1 is sped up by an SSD hold true for the PS4...there's no magical algorithm that can turn a platter drive into something competitive with an SSD. I'd also take the SSHD numbers with a grain of salt as well - they're not always repeatable, since you only get the speed gains on data that's already cached...which isn't going to help you the first time you load a level. So those performance figures you see people posting for their SSHDs won't be your real world experience the first time you play through a game.

I can tell you're willing to spend the money for the performance, so you might as well get the SSD, you'll see a similar boost like you did with the X1.
The information comes not from opinions but from actual speed tests. I believe members here did the same thing. For whatever reason going to an SSD in the PS4 did not perform better than an SSHD to make it worth the cost. The difference was very marginal. Aaron's research is correct. I guess that means that for PS4, the bottleneck is elsewhere. From what I recall the improvement from the OEM harddrive to SSHD wasn't as big as you'd expect either. It doesn't make sense to me either, but actual results suggest otherwise.

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