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post #17131 of 18214 Old 07-15-2014, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by scubasteve2365 View Post
I know you're all in on digital and that it's worth the cost and risk to you, but you don't have to rationalize it this far. It's cool if you just prefer the convenience but man, suggesting it's appropriate simply because of the disc spools for authenticating before playing the game off the harddrive is pretty damn extreme. It sounds like you're having to constantly justify it to yourself, as if you need to clear your own conscious or something.
??????

I've played one game disc in my PS4. The difference is very noticeable from playing a Digital Download game. I am not justifying anything. I am only stating my obersvations. I don't need to justify my digital purchases to myself. I made the decision to go digital only before the systems were even released. If someone needs to constantly justify a decision then they obviously made a wrong choice. There is no question that going all digital was the right choice for me.

Renting the XBOne and PS4 game discs recently solidified my position even more. There is no way in hell I would consider purchasing any game discs after experiencing the rentals. Even if you were to pay me, I would not use discs for my game purchases. Just by not having the discs taking up space in a cabinet, makes it worth it. I've still got a bunch of 360 games discs(that I didn't trade in) taking up space in a cabinet. I will eventually throw them away. Any game I might still play on my 360 now, like Forza Horizon, will be from a previous digital download.

Just like with BD titles. I have been streaming BD ISOs from my servers since back in 2009. It's much easier than messing with discs all the time. So using digital purchases for the games makes sense to me since my disdain for discs goes back many years.

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post #17132 of 18214 Old 07-15-2014, 06:11 AM
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??????

I've played one game disc in my PS4. The difference is very noticeable from playing a Digital Download game. I am not justifying anything. I am only stating my obersvations. I don't need to justify my digital purchases. i made the decision to go digital only before the systems were even released. If someone needs to justify a decision then they obviosuly made a worng choice. There is no question that going all digital was the right choice for me. Even if you were to pay me, i would not go back to using discs for my game purchases. Just by not having the discs taking up space in a cabinet makes it worth it.
That's cool and I respect it, I just can't buy that "the difference is very noticeable from playing a Digital Download" when it only spins to check the disk. It doesn't spin while playing. It doesn't spin the whole time. Just for a short period when you stick the disc in or launch the game. It's sort of absurd for that to even be on your list of bullet points.
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post #17133 of 18214 Old 07-15-2014, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by scubasteve2365 View Post
That's cool and I respect it, I just can't buy that "the difference is very noticeable from playing a Digital Download" when it only spins to check the disk. It doesn't spin while playing. It doesn't spin the whole time. Just for a short period when you stick the disc in or launch the game. It's sort of absurd for that to even be on your list of bullet points.
Well part of it(or I guess all of it) is the PS4 BD transport. It is very loud when compared with other BD devices I own. It is easily much louder than my XBOne drives, my BD rom drives and BD burners, as well as louder than any of my BD players. It is loud enough that I would not want to use it on a regular basis to play a BD title. Since during quiet passages the noise it makes is too noticeable. But the noise is normal. The other PS4 consoles I have seen sound the same as mine. I'm not sure why Sony used the type of BD transport they did. I guess because space was so limited. it's just no comparsion between my four Sony BD players transport and the PS4. It's like they didn't even bother trying to shield any of the noise coming from the BD drive. Hopefully it is something they correct with their next iteration of the PS4.

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post #17134 of 18214 Old 07-15-2014, 06:31 AM
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Well part of it is the PS4 BD transport. It is very loud when compared with other BD devices I own. It is easily much louder than my XBOne drives, my BD rom drives and BD burners and well as louder than any of my BD players. It is loud enough that I would not want to use it on a regular basis to play a BD title. Since during quiet passages the noise it makes is too noticeable. But the noise is normal. The other PS4 consoles I have seen sound the same as mine. I'm not sure why Sony used the type of BD transport they did. I guess because space was so limited. it's just no comparsion between my four Sony BD players transport and the PS4. It's like they didn't even bother trying to shield any of the noise coming from the BD drive. Hopefully it is something they correct with their next iteration of the PS4.
But you do realize that it only spins (or makes noise) for a very brief period of time. It's probably done before you even get out of the game menu and into a multiplayer match or before a level loads in a campaign?

It's not like last gen, particularly the X360, where the discs just kept spinning. The games run off of the internal harddrives. Disc is just for an authentication check. Once the game is loaded it is 100% no different than a digital download.

You have valid reasons for going all digital, this isn't one of them.

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post #17135 of 18214 Old 07-15-2014, 06:50 AM
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A thread on GAF recently regarding someone who has chosen the all digital route and then had their PSN account banned has made me second guess digital purchases.

My main hang up with digital is that they're not offered at a discount. Why? It doesn't even have to be a large discount, but the fact that I can't turn around and sell it should mean it costs less than a physical disc. And while I understand that pressing discs and packaging is very likely a very small portion of the price of a game, it still must carry a price tag.
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post #17136 of 18214 Old 07-15-2014, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by frankthetoad View Post
A thread on GAF recently regarding someone who has chosen the all digital route and then had their PSN account banned has made me second guess digital purchases.

My main hang up with digital is that they're not offered at a discount. Why? It doesn't even have to be a large discount, but the fact that I can't turn around and sell it should mean it costs less than a physical disc. And while I understand that pressing discs and packaging is very likely a very small portion of the price of a game, it still must carry a price tag.

The no discounts(or small discounts) with Digital downloads is the one thing that sucks about them. But for me the benefits outweigh the extra cost.

Someone brought up that GAF thread earlier. i figure the odds of getting erroneously banned are pretty slim. Especially since I only use gift cards to fund my PSN Wallet. That person used Paypal to fund their account which caused issues.

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post #17137 of 18214 Old 07-15-2014, 07:03 AM
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Still pissed you can't save full games to the hard drive and swap at will from the mlp.
Not sure what "mlp" means but, you can do this right now if you go all digital. Doing it using the disc as a delivery method would kill the rental and trade-in markets, which is what everyone was against with the XBO. I'm against anything that ends the rental market as it is the way I play most games (via GF). I might support digital one day if Sony and MS follow the Steam model more closely by offering better discounts and lowering prices on new games faster. If I buy a game, I will not pay $60 for the digital version that often because, I can buy the disc version and trade it in later. Digital prices should reflect the loss of trade-in value, at least $10 cheaper IMO.

I don't understand why this is so hard for Sony and MS to understand, the digital music store revolution (and Steam also) happen because it offered consumers a better value then the CD version of albums. Digital games offer less value right now, the only plus they have is not having to change disc but that doesn't make up for the loss of freedom when it comes to trade-ins or lending to friends IMO. If Sony and MS make digital games the better value, they'll have a revolution similar to what the iTunes Store did for music. Until then, most people will still buy the disc versions.
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post #17138 of 18214 Old 07-15-2014, 07:53 AM
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The disc drive shuts off after it installs the game. It will spin up for a few seconds at boot to make sure the disc is present but then shuts off. Drive noise with disc games on the PS4 is a non issue.
Yes, but that's exactly the problem, the user is "constantly switching discs all the time". So as soon as the disc is done he's ejecting it and putting another disc in .

I honestly can't fathom how this is such a big deal, but hey, opinions are opinions and there really isn't any point in debating them...
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post #17139 of 18214 Old 07-15-2014, 08:14 AM
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What is "mlp"?
My room is set up for audio (1st) and I have a few good seats, one in particular would be considered my Main Listening Position.
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post #17140 of 18214 Old 07-15-2014, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by frankthetoad View Post
A thread on GAF recently regarding someone who has chosen the all digital route and then had their PSN account banned has made me second guess digital purchases.



My main hang up with digital is that they're not offered at a discount. Why? It doesn't even have to be a large discount, but the fact that I can't turn around and sell it should mean it costs less than a physical disc. And while I understand that pressing discs and packaging is very likely a very small portion of the price of a game, it still must carry a price tag.

That user has had his/hers account re-activated. They dealt with Sony and it was taken care of. They believe PayPal was the culprit. PayPal thought the charge was fraud and reversed the transaction. In turn Sony banned the account.

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post #17141 of 18214 Old 07-15-2014, 08:16 AM
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I will always buy my games the way I get the most value for my money. Mostof the time, it's the physical game disc. I almost bought Destiny as a digitaldownload just because I know I will be playing it a lot and always want it onmy PS4. But, I have the gamers club thing at BestBuy where I can save 20%.Saving money beats digital every time for me. Plus, if I get something I don'tlike or finish quickly, I can always trade them in saving me even more money.
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post #17142 of 18214 Old 07-15-2014, 08:18 AM
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MS and Sony are scared of pissing off the retailers like Gamestop and Walmart. Otherwise, there WOULD be a $10-15 discount on new digital games. Hell, first party Vita games are generally 35.99 digitally and 39.99 physically.
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post #17143 of 18214 Old 07-15-2014, 08:23 AM
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I will always buy my games the way I get the most value for my money. Mostof the time, it's the physical game disc. I almost bought Destiny as a digitaldownload just because I know I will be playing it a lot and always want it onmy PS4. But, I have the gamers club thing at BestBuy where I can save 20%.Saving money beats digital every time for me. Plus, if I get something I don'tlike or finish quickly, I can always trade them in saving me even more money.
I have that Gamers Club thing too. I got it for something like $20 for two years and then decided to go all digital after the fact. So it kind of sucks that I can't take advantage of it.

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post #17144 of 18214 Old 07-15-2014, 08:36 AM
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That user has had his/hers account re-activated. They dealt with Sony and it was taken care of. They believe PayPal was the culprit. PayPal thought the charge was fraud and reversed the transaction. In turn Sony banned the account.
I don't think that's the take away. The salient point is who owns your digital download? It would appear it's a license subject to termination. That is drastically different than owning a disc that I can operate offline.

It's these digital ownership issues that need to he carefully considered as our consoles move closer to a digital only scenario.
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post #17145 of 18214 Old 07-15-2014, 09:28 AM
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I don't think that's the take away. The salient point is who owns your digital download? It would appear it's a license subject to termination. That is drastically different than owning a disc that I can operate offline.

It's these digital ownership issues that need to he carefully considered as our consoles move closer to a digital only scenario.
This was the case with last generation digital purchases. This is nothing new.

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post #17146 of 18214 Old 07-15-2014, 10:24 AM
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Just because it is "nothing new" doesn't mean it shouldn't be addressed. At least with digital music, you own the files; if the iTunes/Amazon store shutdown today I'd still be able to play all the music I've purchased.
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post #17147 of 18214 Old 07-15-2014, 10:36 AM
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I don't see it changing in the near future, or the less near future.

PC games can be had from GOG.com, the same company that makes the Witcher games, without DRM. You can download the game files and store them on your hard drive like it's a CD. No need to log into anything.

I don't see the same functionality ever happening with consoles.
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post #17148 of 18214 Old 07-15-2014, 10:40 AM
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Just because it is "nothing new" doesn't mean it shouldn't be addressed. At least with digital music, you own the files; if the iTunes/Amazon store shutdown today I'd still be able to play all the music I've purchased.
It's the same risk with digital streaming movie purchases. If the company goes under all your digital purchases are toast.

For me once the next gen gaming systems are launched I won't have much to do with the previous generation. Of course plenty of people want to make sure they can play the old games and for those people I would think they would stick with the old disc format so there is no chance of losing their purchases. For me the benefits of going all digital with games outweigh any risks.
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post #17149 of 18214 Old 07-15-2014, 11:19 AM
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Not sure what "mlp" means but, you can do this right now if you go all digital. Doing it using the disc as a delivery method would kill the rental and trade-in markets, which is what everyone was against with the XBO. I'm against anything that ends the rental market as it is the way I play most games (via GF). I might support digital one day if Sony and MS follow the Steam model more closely by offering better discounts and lowering prices on new games faster. If I buy a game, I will not pay $60 for the digital version that often because, I can buy the disc version and trade it in later. Digital prices should reflect the loss of trade-in value, at least $10 cheaper IMO.

I don't understand why this is so hard for Sony and MS to understand, the digital music store revolution (and Steam also) happen because it offered consumers a better value then the CD version of albums. Digital games offer less value right now, the only plus they have is not having to change disc but that doesn't make up for the loss of freedom when it comes to trade-ins or lending to friends IMO. If Sony and MS make digital games the better value, they'll have a revolution similar to what the iTunes Store did for music. Until then, most people will still buy the disc versions.
The music industry used to make way more money off of CDs than they ever have from digital.

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post #17150 of 18214 Old 07-15-2014, 11:57 AM
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It's the same risk with digital streaming movie purchases. If the company goes under all your digital purchases are toast.
Which is the exact reason why I don't buy digital movies, unless it is a digital copy that comes with my Blu-Ray.

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The music industry used to make way more money off of CDs than they ever have from digital.
I don't care, that's not my problem. That my sound harsh but, I'm not about to sit around and worry about the bottom line of the companies from which I have bought products. I'm only worried about getting the best bang for my buck. The music industry survived and so would the gaming industry. This idea that we as consumers can't demand better prices or deals because it is not in the best interest of the "company" is carzy IMO.

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post #17151 of 18214 Old 07-15-2014, 12:27 PM
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Which is the exact reason why I don't buy digital movies, unless it is a digital copy that comes with my Blu-Ray.



I don't care, that's not my problem. That my sound harsh but, I'm not about to sit around and worry about the bottom line of the companies from which I have bought products. I'm only worried about getting the best bang for my buck. The music industry survived and so would the gaming industry. This idea that we as consumers can't demand better prices or deals because it is not in the best interest of the "company" is carzy IMO.

Totally. Just saying that might explain their reluctance. Right now it's much easier for them to sell you a $60 bundle at retail, digital tends to bring the average price down.

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post #17152 of 18214 Old 07-15-2014, 01:02 PM
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When we've been buying $60 games for so long, why would they want to change? Old crusty men in charge that can't let go of the past and sell things a different way.

Steam purchases always jump during their sales. I'm sure the same would happen for sony/ms. They just have to be willing to let it happen.

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post #17153 of 18214 Old 07-15-2014, 01:14 PM
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60 bucks for most games. 89-99 for limited edition. 150 for a plastic ghost, etc. Crusty old men plan all to well but I am amazed at the difference in content between The Last of Us @ 59.99(original release) versus 60 dollar games from the last two decades. We are lucky that inflation hasn't hit retail game prices much
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post #17154 of 18214 Old 07-15-2014, 01:26 PM
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somewhat off topic, but i was listening to this weird al song and i think he was reading this thread (jump to 1:07 if you don't want to listen to the whole song.. but you should listen to the whole thing..)

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post #17155 of 18214 Old 07-15-2014, 01:28 PM
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As far as digital music don't forget that it was mostly Apples 800 lb gorilla that got us unencumbered mp3s. Microsoft and their $%&tty Zune service was the poster child for lockout of purchases. That's not to point fingers but just to show what it takes to make that stuff happen. Sony is doing a pretty good job with flash sales and discounts so far. Not perfect but not bad. It would take an Apple type gorilla to come along and digitize games so to speak. Steam looks to be the best at that right now. If we could only get Microsoft and Sony to include Steam clients we'd be good but that cuts into revenue streams and won't happen but tgat would be a good way to realize BD's one purchase many device plan.
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post #17156 of 18214 Old 07-15-2014, 01:28 PM
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60 bucks for most games. 89-99 for limited edition. 150 for a plastic ghost, etc. Crusty old men plan all to well but I am amazed at the difference in content between The Last of Us @ 59.99(original release) versus 60 dollar games from the last two decades. We are lucky that inflation hasn't hit retail game prices much

That's a separate little nuance to gaming business. I don't support that kind of thing either.

So many games now come with little tchotchkes that it's out of hand IMO. I'm sure the companies are making major money, or they wouldn't be doing it.

Pre-order exclusives are another thing I wish would go away.

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post #17157 of 18214 Old 07-15-2014, 01:35 PM
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That's a separate little nuance to gaming business. I don't support that kind of thing either.

So many games now come with little tchotchkes that it's out of hand IMO. I'm sure the companies are making major money, or they wouldn't be doing it.

Pre-order exclusives are another thing I wish would go away.
I agree. I don't need some little doll or 'fancy' case. But as long as people will pay for these 'exclusives' they will keep putting them out.

I'm a 'hooker' and a knitter. I guess that makes me bi-stitchual :). Crap I say
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post #17158 of 18214 Old 07-15-2014, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by benjamin-benjami View Post
somewhat off topic, but i was listening to this weird al song and i think he was reading this thread (jump to 1:07 if you don't want to listen to the whole song.. but you should listen to the whole thing..)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gv0H-vPoDc

Love it, I haven't heard a weird al album in a long time.


I never know when to use whom. "To whom" according to that video, maybe I can remember that.

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post #17159 of 18214 Old 07-15-2014, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by lordxar5 View Post
As far as digital music don't forget that it was mostly Apples 800 lb gorilla that got us unencumbered mp3s. Microsoft and their $%&tty Zune service was the poster child for lockout of purchases. That's not to point fingers but just to show what it takes to make that stuff happen. Sony is doing a pretty good job with flash sales and discounts so far. Not perfect but not bad. It would take an Apple type gorilla to come along and digitize games so to speak. Steam looks to be the best at that right now. If we could only get Microsoft and Sony to include Steam clients we'd be good but that cuts into revenue streams and won't happen but tgat would be a good way to realize BD's one purchase many device plan.

If everyone just stopped buying console games until our purchases and multiplayer are cross platform, things would change pretty quickly. They're not going to do it without a little encouragement, so to speak.

Who's with me?

Steam/PSN/Xbox Live: Darius510
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post #17160 of 18214 Old 07-15-2014, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Johnny Mnemonic View Post
60 bucks for most games. 89-99 for limited edition. 150 for a plastic ghost, etc. Crusty old men plan all to well but I am amazed at the difference in content between The Last of Us @ 59.99(original release) versus 60 dollar games from the last two decades. We are lucky that inflation hasn't hit retail game prices much
Yes you get a lot for your money. I remember paying $25 to $35 for Atari 2600 games in the late 70's and early 80's. That was extremely expensive back then compared to now when you factor in inflation.
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