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post #17251 of 18080 Old 07-24-2014, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Abaddon View Post
So? That's their problem.

Competition is the reason we have a great console in the PS4. Without the Xbox 360 curb-stomping the PS3 to start last gen I can't imagine Sony would have handed over the keys to design the PS4 to Cerny.
Competition is the reason Microsoft is working their asses off to improve the Xbox One. Without Sony kicking their ass to start this gen we'd be getting the usual smug comments and consumer-unfriendly decisions they were entitled to make after winning the last-gen battle against Sony.

In this specific case, I don't think competition with Microsoft had much to do with PS4 getting this feature, although it is definitely possible that they accelerated their plans when Microsoft announced it (and if so, there's another win). You don't just snap your fingers and throw in a feature on the fly like that, it's obviously been in the works for some time.
I agree with you on the competition. Its needed. This has been brought up before and it seemed some people don't think its needed. In my business I know without it I can do as I please.


I also think Sony had this ability to add it. Maybe not at 100% but close enough where it could of been released earlier than this. The PS3 has it so it couldn't be to hard for them.

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post #17252 of 18080 Old 07-24-2014, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by icelt View Post
It's probably the "best" movie overall start to finish on the list and even though it was a 3D conversion it sure as hell doesn't look like it. Pixar spent some serious cash in the conversion process that's for certain.
This is picking nits, but surely they re-rendered it in 3D, rather than converting it? That's not to say that re-rendering a movie with modern technology when it was originally rendered a decade ago is easy...
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post #17253 of 18080 Old 07-24-2014, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by emartins View Post
I also think Sony had this ability to add it. Maybe not at 100% but close enough where it could of been released earlier than this. The PS3 has it so it couldn't be to hard for them.
Of course they had the ability to add it. I am sure they have the ability to add CD playback, suspend/resume, and every other feature we as consumers want (there is a long list!). However, I would challenge the idea that they have the ability to add all of these features at the same time. People complain about updates that "don't provide new features" but the fact of the matter is these updates are likely fixing serious issues encountered by games that are already shipped. Should we get 3D playback before these issues get fixed? Should we get suspend/resume before 3D playback? Ask a different person and they will give you different answers to all of these questions.

Was Microsoft announcing releasing 3D capability a motivating factor? I would not be surprised if it was, although if it was I strongly suspect it simply moved up the release date. The idea that Sony is sitting on features like these to dole them out as Microsoft adds things is unsupported by any evidence. I personally give them the benefit of the doubt after the PS3, I thought they did an amazing job of growing the feature set of the console over time.
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post #17254 of 18080 Old 07-24-2014, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abaddon View Post
This is picking nits, but surely they re-rendered it in 3D, rather than converting it? That's not to say that re-rendering a movie with modern technology when it was originally rendered a decade ago is easy...
Fair point. So I did some searching and found this:
http://thedisneyblog.com/2012/08/28/...w-they-did-it/

Quote in part:
Quote:
The 3D team begins the effort by pulling the original assets, which according to Hollander, must be converted to today’s technology and copied to preserve the original film. Then they do what’s called triage, in which each shot is evaluated and made to look like the original. Like opening an old word processing document with new software, today’s technology—while superior—can’t translate every aspect of the original. “Many problems can occur as a result of changes in software or systems infrastructure, location of files or missing files, and that sort of thing. Not everything matches the original or even renders correctly. A big part of our job is to sweep through the film and fix these sorts of issues,” says Hollander.


That’s when the shots are rendered, assembling the components of the animation. “We’ve re-rendered the entire film at a higher resolution,” says Whitehill. “And because in 3D, you see a slightly different view for your left eye than your right eye, you get a brand new, bigger and clearer image to each eye.”


Whitehill, who evaluates every shot and determines where each object and character should exist in 3D space, says that while the process might be arduous—it took about nine months to complete—there is a distinct advantage in creating a 3D version of “Finding Nemo” versus a live-action film. “Imagine if you were recreating a movie ten years after it was filmed—getting all the actors back, putting them in the exact same position in an identical set and having them deliver their lines exactly as they did before with the cameras positioned just so—it’d be impossible. But we can do that here because our films are computer generated. It’s really not a conversion—we initially filmed ‘Finding Nemo’ in 2D. This time, we filmed the exact same movie in 3D.


The result? Spectacular—though filmmakers are hard-pressed to pick just one scene that best illustrates the power of 3D. Says Whitehill, “During a sequence we call ‘First Day of School’ when Marlin brings Nemo out to the reef, you travel along with Mr. Ray and it almost feels like you’re scuba diving—you feel like you can reach out and touch the fish swimming by. Seeing it in 3D just heightens that connection to the environment and makes it more powerful.”

I think the FN wikipedia page claimed this "re-rendering/conversion" cost Pixar ~$5 million. That's alot of human hours at even $200 an hour (like 25,000 hours worth!).
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post #17255 of 18080 Old 07-24-2014, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icelt View Post
Fair point. So I did some searching and found this:
http://thedisneyblog.com/2012/08/28/...w-they-did-it/

Quote in part:



I think the FN wikipedia page claimed this "re-rendering/conversion" cost Pixar ~$5 million. That's alot of human hours at even $200 an hour (like 25,000 hours worth!).
Prob wasn't all human hours though. Some rendering farm raked them over the coals I bet I'm interested in seeing this now for some odd reason. Time to start looking at 3d TV's.
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post #17256 of 18080 Old 07-24-2014, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by lordxar5 View Post
Prob wasn't all human hours though. Some rendering farm raked them over the coals I bet I'm interested in seeing this now for some odd reason. Time to start looking at 3d TV's.
Lol another fair point!

In all honestly I was very surprised at how good FN 3D looked when I first booted it up. I mean it is very friggin' gorgeous. Very.

Personally I have a Sammy PN60F8500 and couldn't be happier. Since it is sooo bright for a plasma, and still has the great blacks the tech is known for, 3D on it really pops. However that being said there are still many good LCD 3D TV's out there.

JIC you were not aware a good resource for gamers looking to upgrade their TV's is www.displaylag.com.
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post #17257 of 18080 Old 07-24-2014, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Abaddon View Post
Of course they had the ability to add it. I am sure they have the ability to add CD playback, suspend/resume, and every other feature we as consumers want (there is a long list!). However, I would challenge the idea that they have the ability to add all of these features at the same time. People complain about updates that "don't provide new features" but the fact of the matter is these updates are likely fixing serious issues encountered by games that are already shipped. Should we get 3D playback before these issues get fixed? Should we get suspend/resume before 3D playback? Ask a different person and they will give you different answers to all of these questions.

Which is why I think that Xbox feedback site is great - the battery notification and 3D bluray were near the top of the list, so they actually had some data on how many people were asking that question. They were able to effectively prioritize based on direct user feedback, while Sony is still in the dark.

All I'm saying is that a very clear pattern is emerging here. If this continues into the future at this rate the Xbox is going to be feature packed, and the ps4 is going to have all of the features the ps3 offered sometime in 2018.

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post #17258 of 18080 Old 07-24-2014, 10:53 AM
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PlayStation does have a feedback site although it is kind of hidden.

http://share.blog.us.playstation.com/
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post #17259 of 18080 Old 07-24-2014, 01:59 PM
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My 2 cents

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordxar5 View Post
I'm interested in seeing this now for some odd reason. Time to start looking at 3d TV's.
A cheap 3D tv is one thing, or perhaps a large passive 4K, but don't waste a lot of money on any large 1080p (or 4K active) 3D LCD displays. Even the ones people say have no crosstalk are usually complete garbage when you use a 3D crosstalk torture test - such as many found on Youtube and on some Disney (Brave 3D) bluray discs

Crosstalk is pretty much inherent in LCD technology. Even from the expensive $3000 models to the least expensive 3D LCD's I've seen they look good in practice but can't stand up to a crosstalk test. So it will produce more eye fatigue & eye strain than neccessary even if you don't notice it much in practice

I'm not bias towards any technology, I just hope I can help someone who is just getting into 3D get the best experience for the best price. That option currently is the Benq 1070 or the 1080ST projectors. Then 1070 is less than 800 dollars, and if you want the convenience of being able to set one up on a coffee table and then take it down the short throw of the 1080ST is less than 900 dollars. Both are 1080p, and very high quality

Benq projectors use DLP 3D which is widely known to be crosstalk free 3D, which is huge for me. A good pull down screen can be had for 100 or less or you have the convenience of just shooting onto a wall. Projectors have made leaps and bounds over the years in brightness and can be as sharp and clear as the best tv's on the market

3D movies are literally immersive on a 100" screen. And my Benq projector is bright enough to game during the day, even without being on the brightest mode. I've got a top of the line 55" Samsung, but I don't like gaming on that puny thing when I've got a lag free 100" gaming experience whenever I want


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post #17260 of 18080 Old 07-24-2014, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by icelt View Post
I think the FN wikipedia page claimed this "re-rendering/conversion" cost Pixar ~$5 million. That's alot of human hours at even $200 an hour (like 25,000 hours worth!).
Oh yeah, I can imagine the work involved to end up rendering the same movie must have been laborious.

Man, after you quoted that article, I think I have to buy it now. I already own it on Blu-ray but it sounds like a worthwhile 3D experience.
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post #17261 of 18080 Old 07-24-2014, 02:02 PM
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All I'm saying is that a very clear pattern is emerging here.
I think you're seeing what you want to see. I guess you could call that a pattern...
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post #17262 of 18080 Old 07-24-2014, 02:21 PM
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I'm glad Sony has a site for user preferences, but I'm not sure it works very well to include downvoting. Pretty much every entry has more downvotes than upvotes...
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post #17263 of 18080 Old 07-24-2014, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by gamermwm View Post
A cheap 3D tv is one thing, or perhaps a large passive 4K, but don't waste a lot of money on any large 1080p (or 4K active) 3D LCD displays. Even the ones people say have no crosstalk are usually complete garbage when you use a 3D crosstalk torture test - such as many found on Youtube and on some Disney (Brave 3D) bluray discs

Crosstalk is pretty much inherent in LCD technology. Even from the expensive $3000 models to the least expensive 3D LCD's I've seen they look good in practice but can't stand up to a crosstalk test. So it will produce more eye fatigue & eye strain than neccessary even if you don't notice it much in practice

I'm not bias towards any technology, I just hope I can help someone who is just getting into 3D get the best experience for the best price. That option currently is the Benq 1070 or the 1080ST projectors. Then 1070 is less than 800 dollars, and if you want the convenience of being able to set one up on a coffee table and then take it down the short throw of the 1080ST is less than 900 dollars. Both are 1080p, and very high quality

Benq projectors use DLP 3D which is widely known to be crosstalk free 3D, which is huge for me. A good pull down screen can be had for 100 or less or you have the convenience of just shooting onto a wall. Projectors have made leaps and bounds over the years in brightness and can be as sharp and clear as the best tv's on the market

3D movies are literally immersive on a 100" screen. And my Benq projector is bright enough to game during the day, even without being on the brightest mode. I've got a top of the line 55" Samsung, but I don't like gaming on that puny thing when I've got a lag free 100" gaming experience whenever I want

I would have agreed with you until recently, because crosstalk really bothers me too...but my lightboost LCD monitor has so little crosstalk it's not a bother at all. I don't know if the latest LCDs have a similarly impressive tech, but all hope isn't lost for LCD panels and active 3D.

For a PJ, there really is no comparison, dlp all the way.

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post #17264 of 18080 Old 07-24-2014, 03:57 PM
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I would have agreed with you until recently, because crosstalk really bothers me too...but my lightboost LCD monitor has so little crosstalk it's not a bother at all. I don't know if the latest LCDs have a similarly impressive tech, but all hope isn't lost for LCD panels and active 3D.

For a PJ, there really is no comparison, dlp all the way.
Exactly. I was an active 3D fan all the way until I saw the light and realized what crosstalk really was. I hope they find a way to lower the amount of crosstalk but the big brands don't seem to care too much when you check for it on the newest displays. Most consumers never notice, but if you walked into Best Buy with a test on a flash drive (I've heard results from some who have done this) I'd wager that every high end LCD will have it to some extent - some worse than others

I used to think my tv was crosstalk free - and then I ran some real tests on it and saw that it had a lot unfortunately. Thank God I paid a thousand less for my projector

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post #17265 of 18080 Old 07-24-2014, 04:04 PM
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How does everyone feel about the system?

Regret it? Love it ? wish you had an XBOXONE? wish you had never upgraded?

Lack of game?

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post #17266 of 18080 Old 07-24-2014, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by eclipz View Post
PlayStation does have a feedback site although it is kind of hidden.

http://share.blog.us.playstation.com/
The down votes are really puzzling. Nearly every feature request has more down votes than up votes. I suspect Sony is in control of the down button

Seriously, who would down vote more features? As much as I may not use or care for a particular feature, there's a large group of users that will feel the opposite, and I would be content knowing they are getting what they want.
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post #17267 of 18080 Old 07-24-2014, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by RicFlair View Post
How does everyone feel about the system?

Regret it? Love it ? wish you had an XBOXONE? wish you had never upgraded?

Lack of game?
feel great about it, i am not one of those people that get worked up because a system that i will have for the next 8 years (roughly) goes a few months without games.. still enjoying BF4 and with evolve and destiny coming out and 2015 will have more games i can play i am very happy...
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post #17268 of 18080 Old 07-24-2014, 04:53 PM
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The down votes are really puzzling. Nearly every feature request has more down votes than up votes. I suspect Sony is in control of the down button

Seriously, who would down vote more features?
Are you sure you're not reading that wrong? I read the following as:

+3,844
Score
4,318
Votes

4,318 people TOTAL voted and 3,844 were FOR 3D (leaving 474 ppl voting against)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's how I read it. I can see it being confusing as it does at first glance look as though the *Total* votes is next to the down arrow - which would make it look like more features got downvoted than upvoted

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post #17269 of 18080 Old 07-24-2014, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by RicFlair View Post
How does everyone feel about the system?

Regret it? Love it ? wish you had an XBOXONE? wish you had never upgraded?

Lack of game?
Kind of regretting my Xbone purchase that sits collecting dust unplugged but my PS4 runs daily. Actually kind of regret trading TF for filler on it but its made me play Ghosts more.
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post #17270 of 18080 Old 07-24-2014, 06:20 PM
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Tangled, Avatar, Gravity, Madagascar 3, Despicable Me are great. There are a bunch more...3D can be amazing. Make sure to play Trine 2 in 3D also.
I see the PS4 version is $20 from Amazon so maybe I'll just get it...could download it tonight a 2.6 GB download I can manage in a few hours . I'd like to try a 3d game most definitely. It's on sale for $5 on Steam but the PC version makes no mention of 3d so I guess it hasn't been updated...too bad.

I notice a lot of mention of Gravity, the reviews I've seen are mixed but I seem to remember that it is generally liked in 3d and not so much in 2d so I think I'll try it first.

Thanks everyone for the recommendations, I'll try some of the others too once I'm sure I'm compatible with 3d (I don't expect problems, more I can only get about 6' back from my 58" set so I'm hoping that isn't too close...but wow do I love 4K gaming, and actually 1080p stuff looks great too especially compared to the old 40" set). I'll hook up my PS4 tomorrow in anticipation of the new upgrade. May order Tomb Raider too while I'm at it I hear pretty good things about it. Now if I could just get better at the controller so I don't end up stuck like I did in Second Son .
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post #17271 of 18080 Old 07-24-2014, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by eclipz View Post
PlayStation does have a feedback site although it is kind of hidden.

http://share.blog.us.playstation.com/
Cool, never saw that mentioned here or anywhere else before. Did this come before or after the xbox one?

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post #17272 of 18080 Old 07-24-2014, 06:59 PM
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This kind of says it all though:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...178986&thumb=1
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post #17273 of 18080 Old 07-24-2014, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by lordxar5 View Post
Kind of regretting my Xbone purchase that sits collecting dust unplugged but my PS4 runs daily. Actually kind of regret trading TF for filler on it but its made me play Ghosts more.
You should have gotten the Wii U; great system with unique gameplay. I like my PS4 purchase since the Wi-Fi is so much better than the PS3 and everything loads quickly. Nice to own both at the moment.
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post #17274 of 18080 Old 07-24-2014, 07:12 PM
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Cool, never saw that mentioned here or anywhere else before. Did this come before or after the xbox one?
Yeah the feedback site is a few years old.

I know I laughed at the ideas in action part too but there are some things they added if you look through the list (i.e. 3-D support). Sony probably already has a blueprint of what they're going to add over the next few years so I doubt any feedback from that site is going to affect anything.
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post #17275 of 18080 Old 07-24-2014, 07:37 PM
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You should have gotten the Wii U; great system with unique gameplay. I like my PS4 purchase since the Wi-Fi is so much better than the PS3 and everything loads quickly. Nice to own both at the moment.
I did consider it but the only game I could find interest in was Mario. At least the Xbox has Killer Instinct, TF, PvZ, and the Halo stuff coming. Oh yea Guacamelee too. I couldn't find even two games, well Starfox whenever it comes but that's it. Also couldn't figure out if Wii games worked and just in general a lack of info.
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post #17276 of 18080 Old 07-25-2014, 01:19 PM
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How does the PS4's controller (accurately) act as a pointer with out a camera connected?

I think I can, I think I can

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post #17277 of 18080 Old 07-25-2014, 01:26 PM
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Wow does the PS4's controller (accurately) act as a pointer with out a camera connected?
referring to the keyboard? Yes you can use the motion w/o the camera.

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post #17278 of 18080 Old 07-25-2014, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by brwsaw View Post
Wow does the PS4's controller (accurately) act as a pointer with out a camera connected?
Try the demo of Blue Estate. It uses the motion controller but NOT the camera. I kinda wish it did use the camera it would be even better.
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post #17279 of 18080 Old 07-25-2014, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by gamermwm View Post

I'm not bias towards any technology, I just hope I can help someone who is just getting into 3D get the best experience for the best price. That option currently is the Benq 1070 or the 1080ST projectors. Then 1070 is less than 800 dollars, and if you want the convenience of being able to set one up on a coffee table and then take it down the short throw of the 1080ST is less than 900 dollars. Both are 1080p, and very high quality

Benq projectors use DLP 3D which is widely known to be crosstalk free 3D, which is huge for me. A good pull down screen can be had for 100 or less or you have the convenience of just shooting onto a wall. Projectors have made leaps and bounds over the years in brightness and can be as sharp and clear as the best tv's on the market

3D movies are literally immersive on a 100" screen. And my Benq projector is bright enough to game during the day, even without being on the brightest mode. I've got a top of the line 55" Samsung, but I don't like gaming on that puny thing when I've got a lag free 100" gaming experience whenever I want
Bought an Optoma Hd25e projector recently... another solid DLP 3D projector for under 800. Wasn't a big fan of 3D until now.
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post #17280 of 18080 Old 07-25-2014, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Arcadia88 View Post
Try the demo of Blue Estate. It uses the motion controller but NOT the camera. I kinda wish it did use the camera it would be even better.
I liked the demo but a big fat meh on controls which I assumed did use the camera. When I fired the game up the targeting reticule was to the right so my controller had to be held to the left to make it work right and I was unable to find any way to sync it so the demo was deleted and game passed on.
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