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Old 08-07-2014, 12:37 PM
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this just seems appropriate..

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Old 08-07-2014, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benjamin-benjami View Post
dude the whole 1080P argument is taken to a whole different level!!
http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/08/...ne-shadow-fall
Five million dollars😱😱?
What a jackass
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Old 08-07-2014, 03:30 PM
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Five million dollars😱😱?
What a jackass
/Bangs head on desk

I lose a little more faith in humanity every day. What a jerk!
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You know you're getting old when the candles on your birthday cake cost more than the cake itself. Crap I say
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Old 08-07-2014, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post
Yeah it is different, which is exactly what this lawsuit is getting at. 1080i does not equal 1080p. 900p is not 1080p even when upscaled. 600p is not 720p or 1080p.

The lawsuit has a point, it is false advertising and it needs a kick in the rear to stop it. Native resolution needs to be listed on the box.
I agree that native should be listed but ironically Killzone's unusual method isn't the greatest to make an example out of. There were 1920x1080 pixels painted, they just weren't redrawn every frame. That's very different than saying it was a lower resolution. It wasn't.
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Old 08-07-2014, 09:44 PM
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Five million dollars😱😱?
Reminds me of Austin Powers....

He should have asked for more.
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Old 08-07-2014, 11:01 PM
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They should have just called it 2160p.
You mean 4k?
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Old 08-08-2014, 01:13 AM
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I agree that native should be listed but ironically Killzone's unusual method isn't the greatest to make an example out of. There were 1920x1080 pixels painted, they just weren't redrawn every frame. That's very different than saying it was a lower resolution. It wasn't.
Killzone was the worst example to pick for this lawsuit, without a doubt. It is too easy to muddy the water to the point that the judge just gives up and throws it out. This guy just wants a quick payoff to get shut up.
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Old 08-08-2014, 08:29 AM
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I wonder if that guy realizes that his 1080p LCD or Plasma TV isn't 1080p in motion?
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Old 08-08-2014, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by scubasteve2365 View Post
I agree that native should be listed but ironically Killzone's unusual method isn't the greatest to make an example out of. There were 1920x1080 pixels painted, they just weren't redrawn every frame. That's very different than saying it was a lower resolution. It wasn't.

Upscaling 720p to 1080p redraws every pixel every frame though....better not to get on that slippery slope in the first place, else they can justify anything as 1080p.

I think the killzone technique was a really clever use of limited resources. It's not too far off from vertical interlacing though, and I don't think too many people will come out and defend 1080i as being the same as 1080p.

I dunno what to make of the lawsuit though. I don't think Sony/GG was trying to deceive, but if they claimed it was native 1080p, that's a stretch and they should be called on it. But what are they supposed to do, include a 10 page booklet with every game describing in excruciating how every pixel is created?

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Old 08-08-2014, 09:53 AM
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Here's a snap of a retail box.

Dunno to me I don't see anywhere the claimed statement that it's "native 1080P" just the usual somewhat vague language that it supports it and that 1080P output requires a "1080P native display." However that's talking about the device the PS4 is connected to obviously.

Whatever, that's why we have the judicial process in the US, so an "impartial" body can review the claim and determine, within reason and established precedent, if any real damage occurred to the claimant.

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Old 08-08-2014, 10:24 AM
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Here's a snap of a retail box.

Dunno to me I don't see anywhere the claimed statement that it's "native 1080P" just the usual somewhat vague language that it supports it and that 1080P output requires a "1080P native display." However that's talking about the device the PS4 is connected to obviously.

Whatever, that's why we have the judicial process in the US, so an "impartial" body can review the claim and determine, within reason and established precedent, if any real damage occurred to the claimant.


Even if damage did occur to him. It certainly wasn't $5 million in damages for a video game. That is just crazy.

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Old 08-08-2014, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
Even if damage did occur to him. It certainly wasn't $5 million in damages for a video game. That is just crazy.
no doubt, if we could sue for pain and damages from a product, i should sue AVS for 200 million dollars citing the pain and suffering this cite has caused me.

Exhibit A: Plasma vs. LCD - "which is better"
Exhibit B: PS3 vs. 360 vs. wii -best console
Exhibit C: XB1 DRM and Kinect - "is it good for gaming"
Exhibit D: HD-DVD vs. Blu ray - "the war with many causalities"

your honor, i could bring up many more examples but i think the evidence i have presented to you to today shows that without a shadow of a doubt that i have been subjected to numerous painful experiences, been called numerous horrible things and have had to read unintelligible, horrible rants, but it is obvious to everyone in the courtroom today that 200 million is, if anything, a low estimate for what i have experienced. Your honor i rest my case.
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Old 08-08-2014, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benjamin-benjami View Post
no doubt, if we could sue for pain and damages from a product, i should sue AVS for 200 million dollars citing the pain and suffering this cite has caused me.

Exhibit A: Plasma vs. LCD - "which is better"
Exhibit B: PS3 vs. 360 vs. wii -best console
Exhibit C: XB1 DRM and Kinect - "is it good for gaming"
Exhibit D: HD-DVD vs. Blu ray - "the war with many causalities"

your honor, i could bring up many more examples but i think the evidence i have presented to you to today shows that without a shadow of a doubt that i have been subjected to numerous painful experiences, been called numerous horrible things and have had to read unintelligible, horrible rants, but it is obvious to everyone in the courtroom today that 200 million is, if anything, a low estimate for what i have experienced. Your honor i rest my case.

You forgot vBulletin --> Huddler --> vBulletin
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Old 08-08-2014, 01:57 PM
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I think there's little doubt the dude is a douche bag, especially in lieu of the background details that have subsequently been released, however he still could be legally in the right. Could mind you, looks ridiculous on first inspection to me as well.

Basically all I am saying is that there is a well developed process in place and I personally like to respect that process as much as possible. Declaration of Independence, Constitution, 'murica and all that.

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Old 08-08-2014, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by icelt View Post
Here's a snap of a retail box.

Dunno to me I don't see anywhere the claimed statement that it's "native 1080P" just the usual somewhat vague language that it supports it and that 1080P output requires a "1080P native display." However that's talking about the device the PS4 is connected to obviously.

Whatever, that's why we have the judicial process in the US, so an "impartial" body can review the claim and determine, within reason and established precedent, if any real damage occurred to the claimant.


I think it goes beyond what's printed on the box. I don't have any quotes, but I do remembering hearing over and over how it was 1080p, and that turned out to not be the case.

The article is really misleading though - it's not some guy suing Sony for 5 million bucks, it's some guy being the poster boy for a class action lawsuit. Unless there's a lawyer up here that can correct me, I'm pretty sure that means that $5 million dollars will go towards restitution for everyone who bought the game. I'm sure the lawyers will extract some healthy legal fees, but some random guy isn't going to run away with $5 million dollars over this.

In light of that, I pretty much completely approve of this - this kind of thing is needed from time to time to keep these corporations honest. Hopefully just the threat of another lawsuit like this will lead to a little more truth in advertising/marketing...and who's got a problem with that?
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Old 08-08-2014, 04:25 PM
 
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Agreed 100% bd2003 but the real crime is that this is still up for debate in 2013/2014.


We've been at the current HD standard since the late 90's. Its really sad that current gen consoles and broadcast TV still can't achieve the now painfully outdated "high end" of it.

I say this as I watch yet another vomit inducing "HD" live sports broadcast from Fox Sports. Bad timing internet.
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Old 08-08-2014, 04:52 PM
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Agreed 100% bd2003 but the real crime is that this is still up for debate in 2013/2014.


We've been at the current HD standard since the late 90's. Its really sad that current gen consoles and broadcast TV still can't achieve the now painfully outdated "high end" of it.

I say this as I watch yet another vomit inducing "HD" live sports broadcast from Fox Sports. Bad timing internet.

The consoles can achieve it just fine, they just often choose to emphasize other things, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. There's nothing necessarily wrong with that, everything is a tradeoff with a fixed platform...but they should at least be honest about it.

If anything they should be proudly showing off how they were able to achieve an overall better look for the game with this technique than without it. Don't play word games and tell me 1080i is the same as 1080p, just demonstrate how interlacing + good processing is the superior choice vs 720p. It's true in almost all cases, they shouldn't have to lie about it.

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Old 08-08-2014, 05:14 PM
 
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Disagree 100%. 1080P resolution should not be up for debate.

The X1 and PS4 should be held to a higher standard.

If any game can't live up to very old standards, they deserve to be called out on it. Plus, it doesn't mean that we still can't buy and enjoy the game. It means that last gen tricks are not acceptable and they need to try harder. Otherwise, we won't buy it - if we actually know the truth.

Who would have actually purchased a PS4 at launch if Knack was even "perceived" as the only true "next-gen" launch game?

Last edited by tampabuc; 08-08-2014 at 05:23 PM.
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Old 08-08-2014, 05:26 PM
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I would have still picked one up. Although I don't even have Knack.

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Old 08-08-2014, 05:29 PM
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1080p, 900p, 720p....
...first world problems.

Didn't Sony implement verbiage not that long ago preventing class action suits against PlayStation (or PSN?) or was that another corp?

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Old 08-08-2014, 05:40 PM
 
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I would have still picked one up. Although I don't even have Knack.

Aaron, I always trust your opinions so all is good! I cant resist a shiny new console either.

I'm in full summer blockbuster mode with IMAX, 4k, Atmos, 3D, etc. Knowing we're stuck with the current gen consoles and their content creator's abilities or lack thereof, for so long, is quite frustrating for an old dude like me. Life is short.

Edit: Guardians of the Galaxy in IMAX+3D, now one of my all time favorites thanks to its comedy and immersive experience, totally ruined me for years to come. Coming home to a console and certain games, on both systems, that can't "simply" due 1080p is pretty lame. Much worse if you base an entire console launch around it.
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Old 08-08-2014, 07:24 PM
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The boxes don't say native resolution. For Xbox 360 boxes as pretty much most of them do say HDTV 720p/1080i/1080p. The systems output up to 1080p which isn't any different then CBS broadcasting in 1080i upconverted on a 1080p display. Either way stupid ass lawsuit.
Sony was advertising this game as 1080p native and that was very deceptive on their part. Car companies and other companies are instantly sued for false advertisement and it shouldn't be any different for consoles. And Sony knew this all along but kept it going because it benefited their resolution arguments.

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Yeah it is different, which is exactly what this lawsuit is getting at. 1080i does not equal 1080p. 900p is not 1080p even when upscaled. 600p is not 720p or 1080p.



The lawsuit has a point, it is false advertising and it needs a kick in the rear to stop it. Native resolution needs to be listed on the box.

I agree.. This lawsuit does have a point.
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Old 08-08-2014, 07:31 PM
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Disagree 100%. 1080P resolution should not be up for debate.

The X1 and PS4 should be held to a higher standard.

If any game can't live up to very old standards, they deserve to be called out on it. Plus, it doesn't mean that we still can't buy and enjoy the game. It means that last gen tricks are not acceptable and they need to try harder. Otherwise, we won't buy it - if we actually know the truth.

Who would have actually purchased a PS4 at launch if Knack was even "perceived" as the only true "next-gen" launch game?

I'm with you on not wanting to play anything sub-1080p, but it's not a matter of devs not trying hard enough. It's not like you can pop a new video card in whenever you feel like it, so everything is a tradeoff. You don't want to settle for less than 1080p, some don't want less than 60fps, some just want it to look pretty, etc....they're never going to be able to please everyone.
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Old 08-08-2014, 07:54 PM
 
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I won't pretend to understand what it takes to make a real 1080p vs. 1080i game but I hope the hardware can handle it if done right - both consoles. The X2 and PS5 might be a couple years off
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Old 08-08-2014, 08:38 PM
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Tort law is a necessary evil, but this is just another ridiculous lawsuit
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Old 08-08-2014, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by tampabuc View Post
I won't pretend to understand what it takes to make a real 1080p vs. 1080i game but I hope the hardware can handle it if done right - both consoles. The X2 and PS5 might be a couple years off

It's almost entirely a matter of devs restraining themselves with the high end effects. The 360/PS3 could handle 1080p/60 just fine if devs made the graphics simple enough. I know super stardust HD was 1080p/60 on the ps3, there were probably a few others.

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Old 08-09-2014, 12:22 AM
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The package clearly says "video output in Full HD 1080p".

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Old 08-09-2014, 01:21 AM
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Sony was advertising this game as 1080p native and that was very deceptive on their part. Car companies and other companies are instantly sued for false advertisement and it shouldn't be any different for consoles. And Sony knew this all along but kept it going because it benefited their resolution arguments.




I agree.. This lawsuit does have a point.
Yeah but where do you stop? What about Blurays that are scope or wider? They're not 1920x1080p. In fact any BD not 1.78/1 isn't 1080p. Should they be required to state on the box that their effective resolution is lower than what is being advertised? I guess it wouldn't be a bad idea but I just think there comes a point where it's picking nits and it gets confusing for the customer more so than being told something is 1080p when technically it's not quite. The game is 1080p. I don't see why they should have to change anything.
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Old 08-09-2014, 06:52 AM
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Yeah but where do you stop? What about Blurays that are scope or wider? They're not 1920x1080p. In fact any BD not 1.78/1 isn't 1080p. Should they be required to state on the box that their effective resolution is lower than what is being advertised? I guess it wouldn't be a bad idea but I just think there comes a point where it's picking nits and it gets confusing for the customer more so than being told something is 1080p when technically it's not quite. The game is 1080p. I don't see why they should have to change anything.
That's just it, you can't stop once the bottle is uncorked. If this lawsuit gets a win it would set a very bad precedence...well otoh the manufacturers would just extend their right hand, make a fist, change the terminology and raise their middle finger.

**why in TF aren't we suing the dog#$%& out of some cable manufacturer that charges $120 for a 3 foot cable that is "1080p" rated?? But suing a video game is ok....don't understand.
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Old 08-09-2014, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benjamin-benjami View Post
no doubt, if we could sue for pain and damages from a product, i should sue AVS for 200 million dollars citing the pain and suffering this cite has caused me.

Exhibit A: Plasma vs. LCD - "which is better"
Exhibit B: PS3 vs. 360 vs. wii -best console
Exhibit C: XB1 DRM and Kinect - "is it good for gaming"
Exhibit D: HD-DVD vs. Blu ray - "the war with many causalities"

your honor, i could bring up many more examples but i think the evidence i have presented to you to today shows that without a shadow of a doubt that i have been subjected to numerous painful experiences, been called numerous horrible things and have had to read unintelligible, horrible rants, but it is obvious to everyone in the courtroom today that 200 million is, if anything, a low estimate for what i have experienced. Your honor i rest my case.
Ahh but the website is merely the delivery mechanism and you surely wouldn't shoot the messenger?

Besides, to answer your quiz:
A LCD
B 360
C maybe
D HDDVD
This like one of those Facebook IQ tests where I'm going to win a million bucks that gets presented to me in time to loan to a deposed Liberian prince who will repay in gold bars?
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