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post #2791 of 18081 Old 06-19-2013, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by rolltide1017 View Post

Here are some numbers that don't quite add up and why I don't understand this direction MS is trying to force down everyone's throat.

There have been around 80 million 360s sold but, there are only around 46 million XBL members (reported in February). Not sure how many are Gold members because MS hasn't released that number, as far as I can tell. That means that almost 43% of 360 owners are not even members of the basic free XBL service. Who knows why, some may not have internet, some may not believe in creating online accounts and countless other reasons. A small percentage of those are duplicate sells, people buying newer versions and replacements so, just for fun let's subtract 10% to account for those (I think that is probably a little high but, whatever). MS could potentially be telling 33% of the 360 install base that even though, for whatever reason, they have refused to sign up for XBL, it will be required on the Xbox One. Why would you take the chance of pushing 33% (or 26 million) of your customers to the other side?

Let's pretend a little more; let's say the numbers play out exactly the same next gen but 26 million flip to the PS4. That would mean that the PS4 would a outsell the Xbone by 2 to 1; 106 million to 54.

I know there is a lot of number speculation in this post but, honestly, 106 to 54 isn't that far fetched IMO. The PS2 and PSOne both outsold there competition by even wider margins. I just don't understand why MS thinks this is a smart move?

Now, back to our regularly scheduled PS4 coverage...

Lets remove all the RROD replacements. 46 Million is probably close to what the footprint actually is. I know I went through 3 Xbox systems myself; and I have only 1 Live account. Technically they DID sell me 3 consoles, but that doesn't mean it reflects the footprint.
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post #2792 of 18081 Old 06-19-2013, 07:01 AM
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As for military personnel playing consoles: the defense given is that PS3/PS4 won’t be allowed on DoD networks. So the whole issue of military members switching to the PlayStation while on deployment is a non-issue.
Read more at http://gamingbolt.com/major-nelson-addresses-drm-concerns-silencing-don-mattrick-and-how-ps4-isnt-a-threat#KgCfW8csQv5Zwpgb.99

Did the Major actually say something like that to Angry Joe (I didn't watch the whole interview, can't stand Major Nelson and his smug attitude)?

If he did say something similar then what an idtot, MS needs to silent him as well. That's the whole point Major Butthole, PS4 has no internet requirements meaning military members can play the thing even if they are not online... it means buying an Xbone is not an option.

MS has been doing a great job of pushing customers to there competition lately. I'm switching to Mac because of Windows 8; I'm switching to the PS4 because of Xbone. Microsoft, we love to drive you away!
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post #2793 of 18081 Old 06-19-2013, 07:03 AM
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Isn't it allowed to create an Xbone vs PS4 thread in the general gaming forums so everyone can go crazy there? Most of the posts here will be deleted again by a mod for being off topic

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post #2794 of 18081 Old 06-19-2013, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by rolltide1017 View Post

Here are some numbers that don't quite add up and why I don't understand this direction MS is trying to force down everyone's throat.

There have been around 80 million 360s sold but, there are only around 46 million XBL members (reported in February). Not sure how many are Gold members because MS hasn't released that number, as far as I can tell. That means that almost 43% of 360 owners are not even members of the basic free XBL service. Who knows why, some may not have internet, some may not believe in creating online accounts and countless other reasons. A small percentage of those are duplicate sells, people buying newer versions and replacements so, just for fun let's subtract 10% to account for those (I think that is probably a little high but, whatever). MS could potentially be telling 33% of the 360 install base that even though, for whatever reason, they have refused to sign up for XBL, it will be required on the Xbox One. Why would you take the chance of pushing 33% (or 26 million) of your customers to the other side?

Let's pretend a little more; let's say the numbers play out exactly the same next gen but 26 million flip to the PS4. That would mean that the PS4 would a outsell the Xbone by 2 to 1; 106 million to 54.

I know there is a lot of number speculation in this post but, honestly, 106 to 54 isn't that far fetched IMO. The PS2 and PSOne both outsold there competition by even wider margins. I just don't understand why MS thinks this is a smart move?

Now, back to our regularly scheduled PS4 coverage...

The PS4 isn't gonna outsell the One 2:1, you can forget that. I'd be curious why you think that's reasonable. There's nothing to back that assertion up other than optimism based on a good E3 showing. The PS4 will outsell the One in Europe same as usual, it will own Asia same as usual so that leaves the US as the contended market and the MS brand won't suddenly tank. For them to double what MS is doing either MS is going to have to severely under perform (possible but not probable) or the PS4 is going to have to handily out perform the One (again possible but doubtful). If Sony "wins" this round I could see it being in the 70-80 million range for the PS4 and 60-70 million range for the One. That's a potential 20 million unit swing which is impressive but more than likely you'll see 75-80 to 68-70 going to the PS4 for the bulk of the useful shelf life of the two. Then again maybe the WiiU will suddenly go all Wii like and the other two will be in chase mode again for a few years. lol


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post #2795 of 18081 Old 06-19-2013, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by pcweber111 View Post

The PS4 isn't gonna outsell the One 2:1, you can forget that. I'd be curious why you think that's reasonable. There's nothing to back that assertion up other than optimism based on a good E3 showing.

Both the PSOne and PS2 sold over 100 million units so, with the negative reaction the Xbone is currently getting from all corners of the world, I don't think it is that far fetched to see a future were the PS4 could potentially sell that many. That future is no more crazier then the future of DRM loving people that MS sees.

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post #2796 of 18081 Old 06-19-2013, 07:35 AM
 
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Originally Posted by rolltide1017 View Post

That's the whole point Major Butthole, PS4 has no internet requirements meaning military members can play the thing even if they are not online... it means buying an Xbone is not an option.

Not quite. I'm pretty sure I read the PS3 was never certified for purchase, possibly due to it being a Japanese machine? Doesn’t make much sense to me (Wasn't like 360's were built in Redmond!), but maybe someone else has the low down on what is/isn’t allowed and why.

Has anyone read the Digital Foundry performance rundown of Sonys E3 launch lineup? Can’t link to it as I’m at work, but it’s a bit disappointing to say the least. Something tells me that while we’ll have a pretty good launch in terms of choice, they’ll be a little bit of growing pains for both consoles as they make the generational and technological jump.
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post #2797 of 18081 Old 06-19-2013, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by rolltide1017 View Post

Both the PSOne and PS2 sold over 100 million units so, with the negative reaction the Xbone is currently getting from all corners of the world, I don't think it is that far fetched to see a future were the PS4 could potentially sell that many. That future is no more crazier then the future of DRM loving people that MS sees.

also i think people are heavily underestimating overseas sales... the xbone will sell well in the US regradless but i think they are going to struggle even more now overseas then they did with last gen..
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post #2798 of 18081 Old 06-19-2013, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by rolltide1017 View Post

Both the PSOne and PS2 sold over 100 million units so, with the negative reaction the Xbone is currently getting from all corners of the world, I don't think it is that far fetched to see a future were the PS4 could potentially sell that many. That future is no more crazier then the future of DRM loving people that MS sees.

You're correct it's always possible but I think the DRM and used game issue won't be as big a deal as most are making it out to be. We're the more passionate group of gamers and as a result this stuff resonates more with us than it does dude-bros and moms and dads who just want to buy a system to play Halo or CoD for themselves or for family members. It's easy to speculate since the product isn't out yet. I don't see a scenario where the PS4 just so totally dominates. I think those days are over. The PSX and PS2 were products of a time where the competition wasn't nearly as capable as it is now. Nintendo and Sega aren't MS and the Xbox was a new product with no history. You can see what happened once MS got established. You think that's just going to disappear? Doubtful. I hope the PS4 does lay some smack down on MS because while I don't care really about the DRM and used game policies a lot of people do and they need to be more consumer friendly. Maybe it'll light a fire under their asses so we get two consoles that provide us with kick ass experiences that aren't user unfriendly, same as the PS3 and 360.


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post #2799 of 18081 Old 06-19-2013, 07:58 AM
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You're correct it's always possible but I think the DRM and used game issue won't be as big a deal as most are making it out to be. We're the more passionate group of gamers and as a result this stuff resonates more with us than it does dude-bros and moms and dads who just want to buy a system to play Halo or CoD for themselves or for family members. It's easy to speculate since the product isn't out yet. I don't see a scenario where the PS4 just so totally dominates. I think those days are over. The PSX and PS2 were products of a time where the competition wasn't nearly as capable as it is now. Nintendo and Sega aren't MS and the Xbox was a new product with no history. You can see what happened once MS got established. You think that's just going to disappear? Doubtful. I hope the PS4 does lay some smack down on MS because while I don't care really about the DRM and used game policies a lot of people do and they need to be more consumer friendly. Maybe it'll light a fire under their asses so we get two consoles that provide us with kick ass experiences that aren't user unfriendly, same as the PS3 and 360.

good point, although i don't think it will be 2 to 1, i do think it might be pretty significant for these reasons
1. sony had a very (how shall we describe it) subpar console life with the ps3 and yet the ps3, at this point, has sold more consoles than 360. Now don't get me wrong, i am not saying the ps3 "won", but what i am saying is that if they sell more consoles while not doing a great job (yes i understand the blu ray factor), then what will happen when they actually do a good job?
2. retail is pushing PS4 and will continue to, also we talk a lot about the "uniformed mass" but marketing shows that mass is still dictated by the "experts". For example, my wife is 1 of 7 kids and most of her siblings have kids, guessed who they asked about what console to buy, me. that is not an isolated incident. So all it takes is a parent asking a relative or even someone at gamestop what to buy and hears they have to be connected to the internet and that kinect might be watching their kid (whether true or not), they are going to buy a ps4.
3. overseas -well i already covered that.

lastly i am going to buy all 3 systems (eventually) so i am not a MS hater (all my posts have basically been on the 360 side until lately). Just my opinion of what i will think will happen
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post #2800 of 18081 Old 06-19-2013, 08:16 AM
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There are degrees of "winning" (or losing) each console generation. Basically, I don't care about financial results or ship quantities or marketshare. I just want two things:
1. Social critical mass. I want most of my friends to have a PS4 so people aren't stuck buying both consoles, or friend groups are split.
2. Lead platform. I would like the PS4 to be the lead platform that most third parties develop for, because those games tend to deliver a better experience than other platforms (as many PS3 owners today know all too well). However, I think this is going to be hard, because it's the higher-performing platform, and devs might target the least common denominator, the Xbone, as a way to reduce total work.

I really doubt the Xbone will really lose the generation to a degree that the division becomes financially insolvent, or MS exits the business or anything like that. But I do think that they stand a serious chance of losing overall at this point. Especially when you consider the global market -- not just the US.

I think the social effects around point 1 above -- people talking to each other to figure out which console to buy -- this is what will really push the PS4 and cause it to win, out of E3. Most of the people that care the most right now are leaning toward the PS4, which will push social circles there... which is what will drive first year sales.

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post #2801 of 18081 Old 06-19-2013, 08:29 AM
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There are degrees of "winning" (or losing) each console generation. Basically, I don't care about financial results or ship quantities or marketshare. I just want two things:
1. Social critical mass. I want most of my friends to have a PS4 so people aren't stuck buying both consoles, or friend groups are split.
2. Lead platform. I would like the PS4 to be the lead platform that most third parties develop for, because those games tend to deliver a better experience than other platforms (as many PS3 owners today know all too well). However, I think this is going to be hard, because it's the higher-performing platform, and devs might target the least common denominator, the Xbone, as a way to reduce total work.

I really doubt the Xbone will really lose the generation to a degree that the division becomes financially insolvent, or MS exits the business or anything like that. But I do think that they stand a serious chance of losing overall at this point. Especially when you consider the global market -- not just the US.

I think the social effects around point 1 above -- people talking to each other to figure out which console to buy -- this is what will really push the PS4 and cause it to win, out of E3. Most of the people that care the most right now are leaning toward the PS4, which will push social circles there... which is what will drive first year sales.
I would not be surprised to see them come in last in sales again, for the third straight generation. I doubt it will be enough for them to drop out of consoles all the way, but you never know what a company will do.

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post #2802 of 18081 Old 06-19-2013, 08:43 AM
 
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I would not be surprised to see them come in last in sales again, for the third straight generation. I doubt it will be enough for them to drop out of consoles all the way, but you never know what a company will do.

Well, one thing to remember is Microsoft was NEVER in the game business for gamers. They only saw what Sony was doing and were worried that as computing devices grew and got smaller, they wouldn’t have a foothold in the living room. That’s somewhat justified when you look at how Sony basically worked with IBM to create a new PPC architecture (Cell) that was supposed to grow and drive across all their CE product lines.

Anyway the original Xbox was a fun device for gamers, but it had huge problems on the business side and was up against the PS2. MS needed to do better, but they still needed that market share first before they could make a move. So the 360 catered to the gamer, even though time was ticking on the real reason MS got into the biz. Google, Apple, Amazon, Netflix meanwhile have passed them buy, and to MS and shareholders the 360 now looks like just another diversion.

They can’t wait any longer, and it seems to me they decided to make the move on their original plan. Their hope is that brand loyalty, fanboyism and outright ignorance will carry them through until they can drastically drop the price of their new do everything machine to compete. They’re not competing with Sony anymore, but all those other companies.

Meanwhile Sony seems to have raised the white flag on living room dominance from within their SCEE division. They’ve decided to allow their other divisions find tailored approaches within their areas to attack the different segments instead of an all in one approach. For Playstation, that means it’s back to a focus on gaming and the gamer; since all the other stuff can be done through other CE divisions or even through software/apps on their devices.
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post #2803 of 18081 Old 06-19-2013, 08:58 AM
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Not quite. I'm pretty sure I read the PS3 was never certified for purchase, possibly due to it being a Japanese machine? Doesn’t make much sense to me (Wasn't like 360's were built in Redmond!), but maybe someone else has the low down on what is/isn’t allowed and why.

Has anyone read the Digital Foundry performance rundown of Sonys E3 launch lineup? Can’t link to it as I’m at work, but it’s a bit disappointing to say the least. Something tells me that while we’ll have a pretty good launch in terms of choice, they’ll be a little bit of growing pains for both consoles as they make the generational and technological jump.

LOL what? Can you please explain more on what you said. I'm honestly confused.
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post #2804 of 18081 Old 06-19-2013, 09:01 AM
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Well, one thing to remember is Microsoft was NEVER in the game business for gamers. They only saw what Sony was doing and were worried that as computing devices grew and got smaller, they wouldn’t have a foothold in the living room. That’s somewhat justified when you look at how Sony basically worked with IBM to create a new PPC architecture (Cell) that was supposed to grow and drive across all their CE product lines.

Anyway the original Xbox was a fun device for gamers, but it had huge problems on the business side and was up against the PS2. MS needed to do better, but they still needed that market share first before they could make a move. So the 360 catered to the gamer, even though time was ticking on the real reason MS got into the biz. Google, Apple, Amazon, Netflix meanwhile have passed them buy, and to MS and shareholders the 360 now looks like just another diversion.

They can’t wait any longer, and it seems to me they decided to make the move on their original plan. Their hope is that brand loyalty, fanboyism and outright ignorance will carry them through until they can drastically drop the price of their new do everything machine to compete. They’re not competing with Sony anymore, but all those other companies.

Meanwhile Sony seems to have raised the white flag on living room dominance from within their SCEE division. They’ve decided to allow their other divisions find tailored approaches within their areas to attack the different segments instead of an all in one approach. For Playstation, that means it’s back to a focus on gaming and the gamer; since all the other stuff can be done through other CE divisions or even through software/apps on their devices.

This.


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post #2805 of 18081 Old 06-19-2013, 09:11 AM
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I would not be surprised to see them come in last in sales again, for the third straight generation. I doubt it will be enough for them to drop out of consoles all the way, but you never know what a company will do.

Well to be honest the sales of the PS3 and the 360 are so close I wouldn't call either a winner or loser. Hell the differences can be almost attributed to a rounding error. They're essentially the same console as sales in the US mean the 360 is the definite winner but sales in Europe and Asia mean the PS3 is the definite winner. Globally though these are almost mirror twins of each other. I doubt MS looks at this and thinks they are in last place by any means (as they focus on the US market) while Sony has to be proud that they maintained control of Asia and Europe, two typically very friendly markets to Sony. Personally I kinda like that it ended up this way because I don't really like one company just so totally dominating the competition. That's how we got E3 2005 from Sony, same as how MS approached this E3. Strong healthy competition is good as it keeps both companies in check.
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Well, one thing to remember is Microsoft was NEVER in the game business for gamers. They only saw what Sony was doing and were worried that as computing devices grew and got smaller, they wouldn’t have a foothold in the living room. That’s somewhat justified when you look at how Sony basically worked with IBM to create a new PPC architecture (Cell) that was supposed to grow and drive across all their CE product lines.

Anyway the original Xbox was a fun device for gamers, but it had huge problems on the business side and was up against the PS2. MS needed to do better, but they still needed that market share first before they could make a move. So the 360 catered to the gamer, even though time was ticking on the real reason MS got into the biz. Google, Apple, Amazon, Netflix meanwhile have passed them buy, and to MS and shareholders the 360 now looks like just another diversion.

They can’t wait any longer, and it seems to me they decided to make the move on their original plan. Their hope is that brand loyalty, fanboyism and outright ignorance will carry them through until they can drastically drop the price of their new do everything machine to compete. They’re not competing with Sony anymore, but all those other companies.

Meanwhile Sony seems to have raised the white flag on living room dominance from within their SCEE division. They’ve decided to allow their other divisions find tailored approaches within their areas to attack the different segments instead of an all in one approach. For Playstation, that means it’s back to a focus on gaming and the gamer; since all the other stuff can be done through other CE divisions or even through software/apps on their devices.

Yeah it's pretty easy to see now that the Xbox was a trojan horse. Then again MS never made any qualms about their desire to control the living room so anyone surprised by this fact needs to reread their history books. I don't quite agree with you that Google, Apple, Amazon, and Netflix has passed them by because well Google tv sucks, Apple TV isn't any real competition yet, Amazon instant video is still way too young and relies on companies like MS to even exist, and same with Netflix. How successful do you think Netflix in the home would be had the 360 (and later the PS3) not been there to push it? Roku? Nah. BD players? TVs? Eh, possible but I doubt it.

MS knew exactly what it was doing with the 360 from the beginning and you can see that with their slow introduction of media apps. Any shareholder resentment is based off the fact that they want MS to be the old Windows/Office powerhouse where steady share increases mean better profitability. Gaming and media are too volatile and were never going deliver like that so it's not surprising to see some be vocal about it. That's the problem with being a public company and having so many divisions trying to do their own thing. It leads to uncertainty and a push for what's worked in the past. Hopefully this re-org by Balmer fixes a lot of this. We'll see.

As for Sony well with the One now having Bluray that bullet point is no longer really that relevant for Sony so they need to focus on the games because that's what will differentiate the PS4 from the One. You're correct they seem to be waving the living room white flag which is a bit disappointing but if we get a more focused gaming machine as a result maybe that's not such a bad thing.


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post #2806 of 18081 Old 06-19-2013, 10:06 AM
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Has anyone read the Digital Foundry performance rundown of Sonys E3 launch lineup? Can’t link to it as I’m at work, but it’s a bit disappointing to say the least. Something tells me that while we’ll have a pretty good launch in terms of choice, they’ll be a little bit of growing pains for both consoles as they make the generational and technological jump.

Here's the link:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-hands-on-with-playstation-4

Here's their conclusion:
Quote:
When it comes to the state of software development on PS4, the situation as it stands is surprising. On the one hand, freely playable first-party titles such as Knack and DriveClub suffer from noticeable frame-rate stutters down from 30fps, while on the other, "hands off" demos for the new Infamous and Assassin's Creed games appear to run without a perceptible hitch. This is in stark contrast to the playable software confirmed to be running direct from Xbox One hardware, such as Forza Motorsport 5 and Killer Instinct, which benefit to no end for targeting the 1080p60 gold standard, and largely succeed in doing so.

Such a disparity in performance is far from the outcome we had expected going in to E3, but Sony's agenda with this initial wave of games is clearly hinging on visual fireworks rather than maximising frame-rates to the full 60Hz refresh. In the case of Guerrilla Games' and Sucker Punch's sterling work, the pay-off speaks volumes through the screens, and we're left itching to jump into both come their European releases. Christmas can't come soon enough.
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LOL what? Can you please explain more on what you said. I'm honestly confused.

I thought I read somewhere that the PS3 was never certified by the use by military members in active combat zones but the 360 was, or some such thing. Maybe I read it wrong?

Like I said, I'm confused too.
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post #2808 of 18081 Old 06-19-2013, 10:24 AM
 
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Originally Posted by TedSeattle View Post

Here's the link:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-hands-on-with-playstation-4

Here's their conclusion:

Yup, that’s pretty disappointing. It also makes me even more suspect of what we saw coming from the other side.

I’m wondering if they’re still running on PS3 developer suites and ported PS3 engines, as QD confirmed they used for their Sorcerer tech demo? Seems to me there going to be some growing pains getting their PPC engines transitioned into X86 for the first time; and that means launch titles might not be as impressive as what could be had 6-12 months down the line.

Sonys first party studios have shown they can do some amazing stuff this generation, so the talent is there. But the investment is 6 years into PPC cell engines. Now with the change to X86, it’s back to the drawing board and a lot of tinkering to get them back up to that efficiency level.
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post #2809 of 18081 Old 06-19-2013, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

Yup, that’s pretty disappointing. It also makes me even more suspect of what we saw coming from the other side.

I’m wondering if they’re still running on PS3 developer suites and ported PS3 engines, as QD confirmed they used for their Sorcerer tech demo? Seems to me there going to be some growing pains getting their PPC engines transitioned into X86 for the first time; and that means launch titles might not be as impressive as what could be had 6-12 months down the line.

Sonys first party studios have shown they can do some amazing stuff this generation, so the talent is there. But the investment is 6 years into PPC cell engines. Now with the change to X86, it’s back to the drawing board and a lot of tinkering to get them back up to that efficiency level.

I'm not nearly as familiar with the hardware on these things, but my impression was that the PS4 is much more like a PC than the PS3. Shouldn't that make it much easier to develop for in the long run? Wouldn't that make the learning curve much shorter?

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post #2810 of 18081 Old 06-19-2013, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by rolltide1017 View Post

Both the PSOne and PS2 sold over 100 million units so, with the negative reaction the Xbone is currently getting from all corners of the world, I don't think it is that far fetched to see a future were the PS4 could potentially sell that many. That future is no more crazier then the future of DRM loving people that MS sees.

I am not sure either console will hit 100 million. Console sales are flattening and have declined from PS2 levels. I think both Consoles for this gen sold about 150-160 million.
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post #2811 of 18081 Old 06-19-2013, 11:20 AM
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Here are some numbers that don't quite add up and why I don't understand this direction MS is trying to force down everyone's throat.

There have been around 80 million 360s sold but, there are only around 46 million XBL members (reported in February). Not sure how many are Gold members because MS hasn't released that number, as far as I can tell. That means that almost 43% of 360 owners are not even members of the basic free XBL service. Who knows why, some may not have internet, some may not believe in creating online accounts and countless other reasons. A small percentage of those are duplicate sells, people buying newer versions and replacements so, just for fun let's subtract 10% to account for those (I think that is probably a little high but, whatever). MS could potentially be telling 33% of the 360 install base that even though, for whatever reason, they have refused to sign up for XBL, it will be required on the Xbox One. Why would you take the chance of pushing 33% (or 26 million) of your customers to the other side?

Let's pretend a little more; let's say the numbers play out exactly the same next gen but 26 million flip to the PS4. That would mean that the PS4 would a outsell the Xbone by 2 to 1; 106 million to 54.

I know there is a lot of number speculation in this post but, honestly, 106 to 54 isn't that far fetched IMO. The PS2 and PSOne both outsold there competition by even wider margins. I just don't understand why MS thinks this is a smart move?

Now, back to our regularly scheduled PS4 coverage...

I can tell you how this worked with me. I had two 360s from 2005. When a lower power version came out I sold those two and ended up with four of the newer one. Then when the 360 Slim came out I sold those four 360s and got three of the Slims. So I had at least nine 360's over the years. While I only had one gold account I did have a few silver accounts including my GF. But still not enough accounts to equal the number of 360's I've owned.
I only have one account on my PS3 and I've owed two PS3 consoles. One fat and I still have a Slim.

I do plan to get a PS4 but there is no way I can afford to get both systems plus games this year. So I'll pick up a PS4 sometime in 2014.

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post #2812 of 18081 Old 06-19-2013, 11:27 AM
 
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Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post

I'm not nearly as familiar with the hardware on these things, but my impression was that the PS4 is much more like a PC than the PS3. Shouldn't that make it much easier to develop for in the long run? Wouldn't that make the learning curve much shorter?

Sure will, especially for those who were developing in X86 from the start.

PC is based on X86. PS360 and Nintendo was IBM Power PC (PPC).

All of Sonys legacy first party engines are based on PCC, so need some work if they're to be used. We know for example Naughty Dog isn't planning on building anything new from the ground up, but will transition their engine and optimize it for X86.
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post #2813 of 18081 Old 06-19-2013, 11:36 AM
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Those reports of 30FPS games and even struggling to achieve that is very disappointing, I truly hope the CPU isn't a bottleneck to the GPU, it's probably just launch titles not nearly being as optimized as the games we'll see in the future.

Was there any confirmation how many CPU cores will be dedicated to the OS stuff?

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post #2814 of 18081 Old 06-19-2013, 11:55 AM
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Those reports of 30FPS games and even struggling to achieve that is very disappointing, I truly hope the CPU isn't a bottleneck to the GPU, it's probably just launch titles not nearly being as optimized as the games we'll see in the future.

Was there any confirmation how many CPU cores will be dedicated to the OS stuff?


Hard to know at this stage but according to Digital Foundry's articles the new consoles are at this point almost a step backward. Kind of hard to believe.
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post #2815 of 18081 Old 06-19-2013, 12:41 PM
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I thought I read somewhere that the PS3 was never certified by the use by military members in active combat zones but the 360 was, or some such thing. Maybe I read it wrong?

Like I said, I'm confused too.

It just sounds absurd because we are allies with the Japanese. Being a service member I know first hand we bring consoles on deployments. Yeah can't hook them up to forward deployed base or ships Internet but we do use a LAN sometimes. Either way it wouldn't be able to "check in" if it had to. Sooo I know which console will probably be the only one in someone's pack out.
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post #2816 of 18081 Old 06-19-2013, 12:46 PM
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It just sounds absurd because we are allies with the Japanese. Being a service member I know first hand we bring consoles on deployments. Yeah can't hook them up to forward deployed base or ships Internet but we do use a LAN sometimes. Either way it wouldn't be able to "check in" if it had to. Sooo I know which console will probably be the only one in someone's pack out.

But wait, according to Mboojigga, everyone in the services has access to the internet. He has said it many times so you must be wrong. Sorry. rolleyes.gif
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post #2817 of 18081 Old 06-19-2013, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ThumperII View Post

But wait, according to Mboojigga, everyone in the services has access to the internet. He has said it many times so you must be wrong. Sorry. rolleyes.gif

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post #2818 of 18081 Old 06-19-2013, 12:52 PM
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But wait, according to Mboojigga, everyone in the services has access to the internet. He has said it many times so you must be wrong. Sorry. rolleyes.gif

Taking away the ability to rent, taking away the ability play games if not connected, taking away the ability to sell your games or buy used games is "evolution" and "progress" for a few of the usuals over the there. Frankly MS could require you to eat a pile of dog **** to activate your game and you would still hear some people praise them for it.
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post #2819 of 18081 Old 06-19-2013, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by redshift1 View Post

Hard to know at this stage but according to Digital Foundry's articles the new consoles are at this point almost a step backward. Kind of hard to believe.

DF is a little schitzo about their opinions. One paragraph will say a title is jaw dropping (InFamous SS), then will be worried that only the dev was allowed to play it. They loved the fidelity of KZSF and how it looks like it's already 1080p, then complain when the framerate dips a little. DF also forgets to mention that everything they saw and played was pre-alpha, which means they still need optimization and lots will change between now and launch.

I know it's the job of Digital Foundry to nit pick the performance of games but they should have, and give, a little perspective when looking at unfinished software. I like DF but they should wait until the title is out before declaring a problem. That goes for any platform they talk about.

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post #2820 of 18081 Old 06-19-2013, 12:55 PM
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Looks like MS is reversing DRM choices.


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