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post #1 of 279 Old 05-01-2013, 12:43 PM - Thread Starter
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post #2 of 279 Old 05-01-2013, 04:36 PM
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post #3 of 279 Old 05-01-2013, 05:15 PM
 
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post #4 of 279 Old 05-01-2013, 05:40 PM
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Wow! Another FPS Game! Stunning!

Wow! Another CoD Game! Stunning!


/end sarcasm from one who despises FPS games and the cancer they seem to have placed on gaming. (Forcing MP into every game series out there, breeding immature punks who think they can say whatever they want online, enticing developers to release loads of DLC that really should have been in the game in the first place, etc.) tongue.gif
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post #5 of 279 Old 05-01-2013, 06:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jdurg View Post

Wow! Another FPS Game! Stunning!

Wow! Another CoD Game! Stunning!


/end sarcasm from one who despises FPS games and the cancer they seem to have placed on gaming. (Forcing MP into every game series out there, breeding immature punks who think they can say whatever they want online, enticing developers to release loads of DLC that really should have been in the game in the first place, etc.) tongue.gif

Trash talking/insults/racism (not racism, but) started on Starcraft 1 for me.
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post #6 of 279 Old 05-01-2013, 06:29 PM
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You might as well blame the internet for all that instead of FPSs. Non of that is relevant when I play my games off line...
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post #7 of 279 Old 05-01-2013, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Jdurg View Post

Wow! Another FPS Game! Stunning!

Wow! Another CoD Game! Stunning!


/end sarcasm from one who despises FPS games and the cancer they seem to have placed on gaming. (Forcing MP into every game series out there, breeding immature punks who think they can say whatever they want online, enticing developers to release loads of DLC that really should have been in the game in the first place, etc.) tongue.gif

Damn, that's quite a lot to lay at the feet of a single genre. I'll honestly never understand this line of thought.

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post #8 of 279 Old 05-01-2013, 09:53 PM
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Damn, that's quite a lot to lay at the feet of a single genre. I'll honestly never understand this line of thought.

I guess I just miss the days, back around the time of the PS1/PS2, where if you were playing multi-player it meant that you had a friend in the room with you and you were having a blast with your friends in person. There were also PLENTY of single-player games out there if you wanted to play on your own, and the developers would be spending their entire time focusing on the single-player game and not diverting resources to online multi-player. If there was multi-player, it was a co-op type thing or a split-screen where you both would be playing together on the same TV.

I can't recall how much fun I had playing games like Goldeneye or WCW/NWO Revenge with my buddies in college on the N64. Yes, Goldeneye was a FPS, but it was still playing in the same room with your buddies. Grab a few beers, do some trash talking, but in the end have fun.

Once MS got into the mix with their console and the XBOX Live service, everything in the industry seemed to change. Now, on the console, people could get behind their veil of anonymity and behave like miscreants. Trash talking is perfectly fine. But in MP games these days there always seems to be people who go too far and become horrifically offensive and tasteless. Yet, as a community of gamers, nobody seemed to step up and say "Hey, this isn't cool." As a result, this became accepted behavior on console gaming we soon saw an increase in the number of people who just wanted to pick up a shooter and be able to spout off everything on their minds without any fear of consequences whatsoever.

The developers quickly realized that if they just rushed and spat out a new version of a shooter each year with different maps, they'd be able to get boatloads of sales from all the people who buy anything if it says "FPS" and "MP Enabled". Developing games has always been about making money first, then everything else second. It's just that it seems like so many devs today are focusing less and less on the quality of the game experience and more on the rush to get the next thing out and sell DLC for it.

Even worse is the fact that due to the massive amount of money that these FPS games create via their MP play, upper management at the development studios are starting to force the developers to include MP in EVERY SINGLE GAME THEY RELEASE. This is what irks me the most about all of this. With MP being mandated with virtually all games, the resources that have been devoted to developing said game are now split across the MP and SP experience. Even games that in no way, shape, or form should be MP are getting it shoved into there. I LOVE the God of War games. My most favorite game franchise of all time. It provides me a great deal of playtime, great story, great visuals, great audio, etc. For the latest iteration of the franchise, the director (Todd Papy) stated that MP is a mandate for the game. While there were all the promises in the world that the SP would still be great, it isn't. The SP is full of so many shortcomings, needless changes in order to integrate the MP, and countless bugs (many of which are completely random and require you to replay a good portion of the game hoping it doesn't happen again) that are without a doubt caused by the inclusion of MP. Throughout the development of the game, any questions to Papy about SP were brushed aside and MP was gloated over. The end result was one of the worst games in the franchise that countless numbers of people have issues with.

While that was a bit off-topic just whining about MP (tongue.gif), it all comes back to the widespread explosion of FPS games on the consoles which people seem to soak up no matter what. This has caused the studios to put too much focus on how much money they can get from the consumer and not enough focus on giving the consumer something good. If this model works perfectly in the FPS genre, why not do this for all genres of games? Sadly, to me at least, it seems like this attitude has resulted in games being rushed out the door in order to get in on the latest "fad", or having every game that comes out be some sort of FPS like game. Perhaps my previous paragraph wasn't off-topic and my hatred of the FPS genre is really due to the MP? To be honest, I don't mind playing FPS games if there is a good SP mode to it with plenty of replay value. The thing is, I haven't seen one of those in a long, long time.

What's worse is that with so many iterations of these games coming out every year, support for older versions of the games drops off quickly. If you are a fan of MP it means that the casual gaming crowd will have moved on from that title in order to get the newest one. The studios won't bother supporting the older versions, so the servers slowly trickle offline and any type of moderation or "policing" of those servers becomes absent. People who use modifications and/or hack into the servers to cheat then go on to ruin the experience for others. If you have a complaint, they'll just say "buy the newest version".

I truly miss the days where I could count on a good number of SP only games to come out without some type of MP mode being forced into it. I miss being able to play games alongside my friends in the same room with some pizza and beer at arms length. I miss having a SP game that wasn't shortened or given less development time in order for more time being made available for MP modes. (While it's not console related, I remember playing Half-Life and Half-Life 2 on my PC. That was a FPS with a VERY extensive and involving SP mode, but which also had a good MP mode. As time went on and new FPS games came out, the SP modes got shorter and shorter with less "wow factor" in it until we get to games like the CoD franchise where there isn't even really a SP anymore).

Just imagine what we could possibly get as games if studios weren't pushing out yet another FPS game each year. What if they only released them every other year and spent the inbetween years devoting resources to new IPs in other genres? Yeah, what I posted may have been a bit strong, but I truly do feel that way. I just hate that there are so few games for me to even try and enjoy each year because so much of the same comes out as studios just want to go with what makes them a ton of money for very little work; FPS games.
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post #9 of 279 Old 05-01-2013, 11:39 PM
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Too bad there's not a like function here since while I do appreciate the FPS genre and think that online gaming has its place, I'm largely in agreement with you.
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post #10 of 279 Old 05-02-2013, 03:37 AM
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I just think you're blaming the symptoms instead of the disease. And the disease really isn't that bad....if you didnt notice the tons of unique and original stuff last year, especially coming from the smaller devs, you weren't looking hard enough.

Studios are slowly realizing tacked on MP is no longer necessary - it wasnt in dead space 3 or bioshock infinite. I thought it was out of place too in GoW:A as well. I thought it was crazy to put it in ME3....but tons of people seem to love it. I personally didnt dig it at all, but why should I poop on their fun? There's about 20-30 times more games coming out than anyone has time to play....I can't think of any genre that isn't well represented nowadays, even if the FPSes get a lot of attention and the big budgets. Everyone hopping onto the same genre bandwagon is hardly a new thing....in the 90s it was character based platformers and fighting games. RTSes had their time in the sun, music/rhythm games seem to be fading? nowadays we have a ton of FPS, open world and Actions RPGs.

The root problem is that if studios even want to make it onto the top shelf and charge $60, they've got to have a total package that can last gamers 100 hours. That's just the standard they need to meet in order to make their money back....cause if they can't make any money, its not going to happen, no matter how great the idea. We saw an explosion of original stuff at the low end, once the digital marketplaces like XBLA started hitting. I think you'll be quite pleased with where we're headed next gen - they can make games at a smaller scope, sell them for less, and stay on the digital shelves indefinitely. A $60 10 hour single player game is a tough sell, but not at $30. They'd make up for the lower price by not having to spend a ton on the ancillary MP and padding the game length with filler.

But back to cod...I hope they bring the big dumb fun back to the SP with this one. I really didnt care for the campaign in blops 2 at all, the constant cutscenes really dragged on the game, and there were so few great setpiece moments.

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post #11 of 279 Old 05-02-2013, 04:30 AM
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I think there are plenty of fine games still being made.

But I also think that the growth in popularity of online console gaming and the explosion in popularity of a single genre (Often at the exclusion or close to it of a fully featured single player mode or local multiplayer options) has taken away from videogaming in some ways.
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post #12 of 279 Old 05-02-2013, 05:06 AM
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I think part of it is also the inevitable shift in taste of a younger generation. Genres of music I don't really care for get all the attention, the rock bands of my day are sad shadows of their former selves nowadays. All the kids going to hip hop and dubstep concerts nowadays will never know what it's like to jump into a moshpit or get kicked in the head by crowd surfers. I dont think its fair to lay the blame for that at dubstep itself or even modern musicians, tastes inevitably change. I wasnt born in time to experience rolling around in the mud with naked chicks while on LSD either.....and as undeniable a charm as that concept has, I don't think its coming back. tongue.gif

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post #13 of 279 Old 05-02-2013, 08:36 AM
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Please for the love of all things holy eliminate:

Quick Scoping
Noob Tubing
C4 Grenading

How many COD iterations must we suffer w/ this type of garbage? Its complete crap ... and kills the whole flow of the game. I can't tell you how many times I watch my killcams in order to try and improve only to see I was taken down by cheap ass tactics. I know COD is a video game, but c'mon already does every sniper out there have catlike ninja reflexes with unlimited stamina and enough arm strength to do the iron cross ad-nauseum? And on top of it hit me with a one shot kill when not 5 seconds later I'll get gunned down AGAIN after spraying another snipers midsection with my SMG and STILL get punked w/ the quick scope kill?

Give me a break already ...
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post #14 of 279 Old 05-02-2013, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

I think part of it is also the inevitable shift in taste of a younger generation. Genres of music I don't really care for get all the attention, the rock bands of my day are sad shadows of their former selves nowadays. All the kids going to hip hop and dubstep concerts nowadays will never know what it's like to jump into a moshpit or get kicked in the head by crowd surfers. I dont think its fair to lay the blame for that at dubstep itself or even modern musicians, tastes inevitably change. I wasnt born in time to experience rolling around in the mud with naked chicks while on LSD either.....and as undeniable a charm as that concept has, I don't think its coming back. tongue.gif

Certainly

And gaming has been through similar things before. Space Invaders clones and 2D platformers are the two most famous examples of genres that dominated much like today's FPS genre does. But that doesn't mean that something hasn't been unfortunately lost to a certain extent by the mainstream tastes of console gamers.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. But when it affects things you personally do enjoy, particularly if you're not a huge fan of what is dominant (If I'm going to play an online FPS I'm going to play on my PC and while I love a nice campaign on a console FPS, I'm not getting much there these days), you're going to get people that lament those declines.

And in some unfortunate situations, complete extinctions. When was the last space shooter, the last true rally racer (Dirt was the closest we've seen in North America this generation and that was a long ways away from a pure rally racer and the sequels have just moved away even further), and so on. They make these decisions for business reasons and that's fine and the way it should be.

But if you like that stuff, it doesn't stink any less.
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post #15 of 279 Old 05-02-2013, 10:32 AM
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You DO know you're still allowed to do this, right?
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I guess I just miss the days, back around the time of the PS1/PS2, where if you were playing multi-player it meant that you had a friend in the room with you and you were having a blast with your friends in person.

I can't recall how much fun I had playing games like Goldeneye or WCW/NWO Revenge with my buddies in college on the N64. Yes, Goldeneye was a FPS, but it was still playing in the same room with your buddies. Grab a few beers, do some trash talking, but in the end have fun.

"Where's the Imp???" "SHUTUP!!"

 

 

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post #16 of 279 Old 05-02-2013, 11:09 AM
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Good point Chairman!

I would agree that the MP community can be REALLY obnoxious. The trash talking is one thing, but that's why you can mute other players. Cheap tactics? Well...I agree that it's completely frustrating. I don't play the game that way; however, one night while I was yelling all kinds of "f-words" because I kept getting killed by campers and quickscopers, my wife wanted to know why I was so mad. When I tried to explain it she just said "well isn't the point to win? They found a way to win." While that certainly didn't do much to calm me down...she has a point. Anymore, when I get in those lobbies, I just suck it up, get through the match, and then back out afterward. Then (on XBL) I submit a player review to avoid that player. Sometimes it helps and sometimes it doesn't. I've just accepted it as part of the deal with online MP.

Goldeneye on N64 was a BLAST in college! However, I don't really have the time or the drive for that anymore, so that's why I appreciate what COD has been able to do. I can party up with friends if I want to, but most times I just head out as a lone wolf because my time may be limited, or flat out because I just want to relax and not really talk. Video games aren't a social thing for me...at least not primarily. If I make some friends and play with some cool people, then that's awesome. Most times, I start playing after getting home from work, walking the dogs, working out/running, making dinner, cleaning up, getting my daughter to bed, then finally getting a shower and getting downstairs to pour a drink and drop on the couch for a bit. Having a good night of Domination in Nuketown helps. Getting contstantly destroyed by VTOL warships does not. That's when I make the switch to a single-player game.
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post #17 of 279 Old 05-02-2013, 11:37 AM
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So a thread about the latest COD game turns into the bitching and complaining about COD or personal gaming in general of dislikes of FPS.

How about someone open up an actual thread that all the bitching and complaining can happen instead of turning the thread into this.
None of what you all are discussing has anything to do with a reveal of the new engine and game yet you make the time to come and complain because it is COD.

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post #18 of 279 Old 05-02-2013, 12:46 PM
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Ummm okay.

BOY I'm PSYCHED there is ANOTHER COD being CHURNED out just in time for the holidays !!!! Fancy that? I bet it will be amazing !!! I'll be sure not to put in a wishlist or critique of other games in the genre lest it be contrived as not adding to the conversation.

YAH COD !!! WOO HOO GIVE ME MORE OF WHAT I'M USED TO !!!! All hail all things COD !!!!
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post #19 of 279 Old 05-02-2013, 12:55 PM
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Ummm okay.

BOY I'm PSYCHED there is ANOTHER COD being CHURNED out just in time for the holidays !!!! Fancy that? I bet it will be amazing !!! I'll be sure not to put in a wishlist or critique of other games in the genre lest it be contrived as not adding to the conversation.

YAH COD !!! WOO HOO GIVE ME MORE OF WHAT I'M USED TO !!!! All hail all things COD !!!!

I didn't say anything about acting fake. Or overhype or Fluffer about it being another COD game. I just suggested leave the BS out. Form a thread that is dedicated to bitching. Not unreasonable.

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post #20 of 279 Old 05-03-2013, 12:28 AM
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Fair enough I guess.

I'm not sure what you want to discuss though. The series follows a formula so closely these days that I don't think anyone expects any surprises. Just a new set of levels, a few tweaks, etc. And with what little there is known about this at the moment, there's essentially no facts to discuss in any amount of detail.

Beyond perhaps discussing how you want the series to evolve if it ever does again (Or devolve if one of the minor tweaks of recent entries negatively affected the series), we're probably stuck until at least E3 until there is some actual detail here that a discussion can be formed around.

If you want a wish list here about Call of Duty, I hope the single player campaign is significantly beefed up for a change. When you have to play something like the entire Modern Warfare series to get a campaign length resembling something like Half-Life 2 a decade ago and that's the component of the game you enjoy, it's disappointing no matter how many times it happens.

I also would like a step back into time. It doesn't even need to be a WWII shooter. Why not set it in about 1960 with a fictional conflict that didn't really happen? There's an excellent blend of technology there from the WWII era along with advancements that were coming to age that would reshape conflicts in the future.

It doesn't have to be WWII, contemporary, or futuristic. I want something different. World War I for instance is something far too ignored in gaming where as I think it would make for an excellent Call of Duty game while offering a breath of fresh air.
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post #21 of 279 Old 05-03-2013, 06:04 AM
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I didn't say anything about acting fake. Or overhype or Fluffer about it being another COD game. I just suggested leave the BS out. Form a thread that is dedicated to bitching. Not unreasonable.

I hear you, but if discussing what you would like changed in the new game is off limits, what else are we going to talk about? That's almost like saying this post should really be dedicated to the new game engine, in which case the example response would be 'So dedicate a thread based on the new game engine and not the launch of a new title in the series'.

At any rate, there are easy things that can be tweaked that to me, would make the game so much better.

RE: game engine - I like me some eye candy and I can't wait to see it on a next gen console.
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post #22 of 279 Old 05-03-2013, 07:20 PM
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I moved to the PS3 to get away from mindless repetitive nature, in general, of shooters. Give me a Journey anyday. Even a holy regarded game like Tomb Raider suffers from the same basic flaws.

And COD, after the first 2 games, is about as formulaic as you can get. I enjoyed the early ones because it was a way to experience a great event like the world war in some realism. this is why SP will always be greater than MP.
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Fair enough I guess.

I'm not sure what you want to discuss though. The series follows a formula so closely these days that I don't think anyone expects any surprises. Just a new set of levels, a few tweaks, etc. And with what little there is known about this at the moment, there's essentially no facts to discuss in any amount of detail.

Beyond perhaps discussing how you want the series to evolve if it ever does again (Or devolve if one of the minor tweaks of recent entries negatively affected the series), we're probably stuck until at least E3 until there is some actual detail here that a discussion can be formed around.

If you want a wish list here about Call of Duty, I hope the single player campaign is significantly beefed up for a change. When you have to play something like the entire Modern Warfare series to get a campaign length resembling something like Half-Life 2 a decade ago and that's the component of the game you enjoy, it's disappointing no matter how many times it happens.

I think the biggest question is if they're still going to be using ID3 Tech, or if they'll finally put that out to pasture. Then the question becomes, how is that going to effect the feel and look of the game that so many people are stuck on.

If you told me in 2006 that the engine that powered Quake III Arena (99') was going to spawn a $3 billion dollar franchise through 2013 (with a few tweaks) and be considered "Next Gen", I would have laughed at you. But here we are.
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post #24 of 279 Old 05-03-2013, 09:54 PM
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I think the biggest question is if they're still going to be using ID3 Tech, or if they'll finally put that out to pasture. Then the question becomes, how is that going to effect the feel and look of the game that so many people are stuck on.

If you told me in 2006 that the engine that powered Quake III Arena (99') was going to spawn a $3 billion dollar franchise through 2013 (with a few tweaks) and be considered "Next Gen", I would have laughed at you. But here we are.

There's no way they abandon their engine. The game is coming to PS3 and 360, the next gen versions will be 1080p/60 with a candy coating.

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post #25 of 279 Old 05-04-2013, 07:58 AM
 
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You're not going to get much more eye candy out of that engine. They've already had to make huge sacrifices to make the level design work.
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You're not going to get much more eye candy out of that engine. They've already had to make huge sacrifices to make the level design work.

Not on the 360 and PS3 at least. There's plenty they can do with the next gen consoles though.

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post #27 of 279 Old 05-04-2013, 12:45 PM
 
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Not really. It's a 14 year old engine piecemealed together. It's not terribly efficient, and while you can throw some shaders over it, the underlying tech is very, very old. You could see it very well with the lack of real physics, and very boxy levels.
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post #28 of 279 Old 05-04-2013, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

Not really. It's a 14 year old engine piecemealed together. It's not terribly efficient, and while you can throw some shaders over it, the underlying tech is very, very old. You could see it very well with the lack of real physics, and very boxy levels.

I guess by the same line of thought, source is 17 years old then?

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post #29 of 279 Old 05-04-2013, 02:07 PM
 
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Source is a engine built from scratch by Valve for HL2 (HL1 wasn't it's own engine, but a modified engine based on Quake 1), but it's long been showing it's age as well. Valve's going to need a new engine sooner or later as well, which is why they confirmed they're already deep into development on Source 2 engine. Source itself was built to be modular, and allow easy updates that wouldn't break past functionality.

COD's engine is worse off and much more patch worked than Source. We're already up to ID Tech 5 among other propitiatory engines. COD is wasting a lot of rendering resources just trying to keep that old code running at 60FPS.
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post #30 of 279 Old 05-04-2013, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

Source is a engine built from scratch by Valve for HL2 (HL1 wasn't it's own engine, but a modified engine based on Quake 1), but it's long been showing it's age as well. Valve's going to need a new engine sooner or later as well, which is why they confirmed they're already deep into development on Source 2 engine. Source itself was built to be modular, and allow easy updates that wouldn't break past functionality.

COD's engine is worse off and much more patch worked than Source. We're already up to ID Tech 5 among other propitiatory engines. COD is wasting a lot of rendering resources just trying to keep that old code running at 60FPS.

Yet it has worked out for them and gamers. Why change something that isn't broke?

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