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Old 06-18-2013, 07:46 AM - Thread Starter
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The spoiler tags in the main thread are already getting out of hand....so welcome to the official spoiler zone. You've been warned...




So lets get right to it. I loved the ending. For maybe the first minute or so, I was like....that's it? I swore the ending was going to be Ellie waking up and telling Joel to stop trying to save her, and she would have voluntarily gone through with the surgery, and then you'd get the grand payoff that you saved the world, like every other game. Sure, that would have been really touching, probably a real tear jerker, I'm sure ND could have pulled it off. But....this isn't every other game. It was never about saving the world, it was always about the two of them coming together.

Neither of them would have survived without the other, and that's one of the things I loved about Ellie....she didn't need rescuing, she was as strong as he was, maybe even more so. I was expecting a half dead Joel to stumble into the burning lodge to rescue her just in time, but she had already dealt with the psycho before he got there. Not to say that he wasn't protective of her, but it was more about shielding her from losing her humanity and from having the weight of the world on her shoulders. He saw his own daughter in her, and just wanted her to be the little girl that she was when you were just walking around and everything was quiet.

So I guess that's how I saw the ending, why he lied to her face multiple times at the end. Surely some part of it was selfish, but he did what any father would do....protect his little girl. If I was in his shoes and that was my daughter, I'd have done the exact same thing. I'd never even consider for a second to even allow her to make that choice, nor would I burden her with the truth. She wasn't responsible for the apocalypse, so it's not her responsibility to sacrifice herself to *potentially* stop it. If she was immune, there will surely be others as well. Maybe she'll figure it out eventually and feel guilty, who knows....but she can make that decision for herself when she's old enough and has time to think about it.

Overall the whole game really delivered. A genuinely mature game, a rare beast. Kind of a watershed moment for gaming IMO. The walking dead was emotional, sure....but it was also kind of hokey. Those characters still felt like comic book characters to some degree, but Ellie and Joel felt like genuine human beings. And ND earned that by paying attention to the little things, like the way she'd sigh and do that thing with her lips, etc. Those moments that weren't about advancing some overly complex plot or beating you over the head with some dramatic choice. They could have gotten away with so much less and still have been the game of the generation. I simply can't think of any game like this, that never took the easy way out.
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Old 06-18-2013, 03:06 PM
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This is a good idea, but as someone who plans to play this down the road and hates spoilers, I'll remind everyone that the first sentence or so of the most recent post for each thread appears for everyone to see in the thread list. So please don't announce major plot points in the first few words of your post so people like me don't inadvertently read it as we scan down the list of new thread posts.
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Old 06-18-2013, 03:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Zookster View Post

This is a good idea, but as someone who plans to play this down the road and hates spoilers, I'll remind everyone that the first sentence or so of the most recent post for each thread appears for everyone to see in the thread list. So please don't announce major plot points in the first few words of your post so people like me don't inadvertently read it as we scan down the list of new thread posts.

Good to know, didn't realize that.

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Old 06-19-2013, 08:22 AM
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New post buffer...



I finished the game last night and loved every minute of it. I thought the ending fit the overall spirit of the game perfectly and although abrupt, was a good finish to a very solid game. I was particularly happy that there was no final boss battle with Marlene at the end - it would have felt forced and out of place. I'm still going back over the game in my head and collecting my thoughts, but it was an incredible experience and I think anyone who rated this game less than 9/10 is lacking something in their life. As someone in the main thread posted, MGS3 is the only other video game I've played that really struck me emotionally, and The Last of Us succeeded in doing the same. Well done, Naughty Dog.

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Old 06-20-2013, 08:58 AM
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i finished it last night and i as well felt the ending was perfect and spectacular. Overall the best game ive played in years. Story, graphics, gameplay, the enviroments characters. everything worked together as a package better than anything i can really remember

part of me was expecting something after the credits showing them getting to the town and it being full of infected and the final ending being them running for it
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Old 07-08-2013, 09:47 PM
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I finally finished this tonight. Amazing game to say the least. The story for this game played out better than most books I've read, and I can't think of the last time I was so involved with the characters in a game. When Ellie and Joel are crossing the bus and its pretty clear she's going to fall in, I caught myself leaning forward and telling Joel to "Hurry up!" I'd get a little antsy every time Ellie had to to be hoisted up over a wall or Ellie and Joel were split up. Just amazingly well told.

Now for the downers. I did think the gameplay got a little monotonous a couple times. Scrounging around for supplies and ammo got old, and there were times when I was a little tired of sneaking around.

All in all 10/10 for me! This is one of the few games that I would pay well more than $60 for.

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Old 07-09-2013, 09:50 AM
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The more I think about this game, the more it strikes me that the character's flaws are what makes it so intense. Joel is not your typical game hero. It's made quite clear he's done some despicable things to survive, and yet he does everything he can to protect Ellie. Ellie on the other hand is a teenage girl that could be humanities salvation, and yet she's capable of vicious acts on them, all with a vocabulary suitable for veteran sailor. These flaws make the game more interesting. You're not dealing with superman who gets to make the "good" decision at every turn. These characters are believable because they've had to make decisions where there was no clearly "good" choice, and even when there is, they've sometimes made the "bad" one to survive.

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Old 07-09-2013, 10:19 AM
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The buffer and spaces isn't working. I believe you have to put something in each line. Like this...
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Old 07-09-2013, 10:20 AM
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Like that?

Nope nvm that doesn't work either.
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Old 07-09-2013, 10:26 AM
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What about an empty spoiler tag like this?

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What about an empty spoiler tag like the above?

I don't think that works either......

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Old 07-09-2013, 11:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Buffer......



I thought it was really interesting how yin and yang they were. They were opposites, but so alike.

She's a girl that has abandonment issues, he's a guy with attachment issues...yet they're both incredibly loyal to one another. Towards the beginning of the game she sticks to him like glue and freaks out every time he leaves her side. Towards the end she's no longer afraid he's going to leave her...she'll run away from him, hang way behind and sometimes he's shouting at her to come back.

She's a little girl who lost her mother, he's a father who lost his daughter, but they both share a really intense survivor's guilt over those losses. They're both on this quest to save the world to ease their guilt. For her its over those few close people dying that weren't her fault. For him to make up for all the unknown innocent people he intentionally hunted and killed.

In the end, he decides to save one person over the entirety of humanity, where she would have sacrificed herself for the cause. But she was too blinded by guilt and trust for people who betrayed her (Marlene) to be in a place make that call for herself.

The final scene was just magic - theyre just aboit to reach Tommy's camp, where he once tried to abandon her. She finally lays all her guilt out on the table cause she thinks it might be her last chance, and his response is basically the exact same thing her mom said to her in the note in her backpack. She then puts him on the spot about what happened with the fireflies, and he straight up lies to her face....she's not a dumb girl, she knows there's more to the story. For the next few seconds you can see on her face how shes processing so many mixed emotions, but she finally realizes that the only reason he would continue to lie to her is because he was never going to abandon her again. She's finally got the parent she never had, and he's got a second chance to protect a new daughter, and both get to start fresh in the only place theyve been that had any humanity remaining.

Really amazing stuff, even more so little of it was explicitly said, you really needed to read between the lines and pick up on some really subtle cues. I've heard some really shallow interpretations of the ending, like that Joel is the "bad guy"....there's so much more to it than that.

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Old 07-09-2013, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

The spoiler tags in the main thread are already getting out of hand....so welcome to the official spoiler zone. You've been warned...




So lets get right to it. I loved the ending. For maybe the first minute or so, I was like....that's it? I swore the ending was going to be Ellie waking up and telling Joel to stop trying to save her, and she would have voluntarily gone through with the surgery, and then you'd get the grand payoff that you saved the world, like every other game. Sure, that would have been really touching, probably a real tear jerker, I'm sure ND could have pulled it off. But....this isn't every other game. It was never about saving the world, it was always about the two of them coming together.

Neither of them would have survived without the other, and that's one of the things I loved about Ellie....she didn't need rescuing, she was as strong as he was, maybe even more so. I was expecting a half dead Joel to stumble into the burning lodge to rescue her just in time, but she had already dealt with the psycho before he got there. Not to say that he wasn't protective of her, but it was more about shielding her from losing her humanity and from having the weight of the world on her shoulders. He saw his own daughter in her, and just wanted her to be the little girl that she was when you were just walking around and everything was quiet.

So I guess that's how I saw the ending, why he lied to her face multiple times at the end. Surely some part of it was selfish, but he did what any father would do....protect his little girl. If I was in his shoes and that was my daughter, I'd have done the exact same thing. I'd never even consider for a second to even allow her to make that choice, nor would I burden her with the truth. She wasn't responsible for the apocalypse, so it's not her responsibility to sacrifice herself to *potentially* stop it. If she was immune, there will surely be others as well. Maybe she'll figure it out eventually and feel guilty, who knows....but she can make that decision for herself when she's old enough and has time to think about it.

Overall the whole game really delivered. A genuinely mature game, a rare beast. Kind of a watershed moment for gaming IMO. The walking dead was emotional, sure....but it was also kind of hokey. Those characters still felt like comic book characters to some degree, but Ellie and Joel felt like genuine human beings. And ND earned that by paying attention to the little things, like the way she'd sigh and do that thing with her lips, etc. Those moments that weren't about advancing some overly complex plot or beating you over the head with some dramatic choice. They could have gotten away with so much less and still have been the game of the generation. I simply can't think of any game like this, that never took the easy way out.

Nicely put.

I also loved the ending, selfish it is. But that's how I also wanted to end. To hell with the vaccine, I want Ellie to go on and live.
Being a father of a little 9 year old girl, I would have made the same decision Joel did.
He already lost his daughter, he would have probably go nuts and end it up like Henry when he lost Sam.

I played the game 4 times already, finished on Survivor Plus. And I played the game 4 times in a row.
And I just can't skip the cinematics. It's so well done.
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Old 07-09-2013, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Nicely put.

I also loved the ending, selfish it is. But that's how I also wanted to end. To hell with the vaccine, I want Ellie to go on and live.
Being a father of a little 9 year old girl, I would have made the same decision Joel did.
He already lost his daughter, he would have probably go nuts and end it up like Henry when he lost Sam.

I played the game 4 times already, finished on Survivor Plus. And I played the game 4 times in a row.
And I just can't skip the cinematics. It's so well done.

Was it really selfish though? The fireflies proved to be nothing more than a bunch of thugs. They see a guy doing CPR on a girl, and they point guns at him and smash him in the face. Then kidnap the girl and attempt to sacrifice her against her will for the potential of a *vaccine* - not a cure. This would basically make them the most powerful group in the world. I'm not convinced they had the best intentions. If they were supposed to be the good guys, they certainly weren't acting like it. They treated Joel the same way the military did. Marlene promised her mom that she'd protect her, and she wasted no time in sacrificing her. All that talk on the voice recorder was just marlene trying to rationalize to herself that she was doing it for the right reasons...her motivations were just as selfish. Maybe they started out as the good guys, but they've clearly lost their way.

He did the right thing by taking her away from them and bringing back to the camp. Maybe they can attract a researcher. They could try to find a non-lethal way to make a cure, or dissect her when she dies naturally. Maybe all her children are immune. Maybe she's not that special and kids just start developing immunity through random mutations and natural selection. Maybe the giraffes should just take the world back, cause most of what's left of the human race isn't worth saving.

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Old 07-09-2013, 12:43 PM
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buffer..........
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Maybe that will cover it smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Was it really selfish though? The fireflies proved to be nothing more than a bunch of thugs. They see a guy doing CPR on a girl, and they point guns at him and smash him in the face. Then kidnap the girl and attempt to sacrifice her against her will for the potential of a *vaccine* - not a cure. This would basically make them the most powerful group in the world. I'm not convinced they had the best intentions. If they were supposed to be the good guys, they certainly weren't acting like it. They treated Joel the same way the military did. Marlene promised her mom that she'd protect her, and she wasted no time in sacrificing her. All that talk on the voice recorder was just marlene trying to rationalize to herself that she was doing it for the right reasons...her motivations were just as selfish. Maybe they started out as the good guys, but they've clearly lost their way.

He did the right thing by taking her away from them and bringing back to the camp. Maybe they can attract a researcher. They could try to find a non-lethal way to make a cure, or dissect her when she dies naturally. Maybe all her children are immune. Maybe she's not that special and kids just start developing immunity through random mutations and natural selection. Maybe the giraffes should just take the world back, cause most of what's left of the human race isn't worth saving.

I agree even though the ending implied that it was her choice (or at least would have been had she been conscious) to sacrifice herself for humanity. None the less, I think Joel did the right thing, and choosing to keep that secret from Ellie may be his single most redeeming choice.

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Old 07-09-2013, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post

buffer..........
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Maybe that will cover it smile.gif
I agree even though the ending implied that it was her choice (or at least would have been had she been conscious) to sacrifice herself for humanity. None the less, I think Joel did the right thing, and choosing to keep that secret from Ellie may be his single most redeeming choice.

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It definitely would have been her choice. But she'd be doing it for the wrong reasons. She blames herself for what happened to Riley, maybe even her mom.

And speaking of her mom - I think if anything holds the answer to the cure, that note in her backpack was it. It seems that her mom got bitten just before she gave birth, and that's how she ended up the way she did. If the world is right side up, parents would make sacrifices to protect their children - NOT sacrifice their children to protect themselves.

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Old 07-09-2013, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by MaxDam77 View Post

Nicely put.

I also loved the ending, selfish it is. But that's how I also wanted to end. To hell with the vaccine, I want Ellie to go on and live.
Being a father of a little 9 year old girl, I would have made the same decision Joel did.
He already lost his daughter, he would have probably go nuts and end it up like Henry when he lost Sam.

I played the game 4 times already, finished on Survivor Plus. And I played the game 4 times in a row.
And I just can't skip the cinematics. It's so well done.

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I did the same thing and put my rug rats and me in their shoes and there is no ****ing way you can have my kid for your cure.

I think in addition to what bd was saying is that through Ellie, Joel learned that you can't go back. Having a cure in that world doesn't magically turn the world back into what it was and there will still be the monsters and the craziness all around. The cure wouldn't bring the world back to what it was and it seemed that the fireflies were searching for something that wasn't lost, but gone...

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Old 07-11-2013, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post

buffer..........
words
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Maybe that will cover it smile.gif
I agree even though the ending implied that it was her choice (or at least would have been had she been conscious) to sacrifice herself for humanity. None the less, I think Joel did the right thing, and choosing to keep that secret from Ellie may be his single most redeeming choice.

by the end of the game, I was so attached to ellie that I was willing to gun down ANYONE standing in my way. During the last level, all I kept thinking about was Eliie, I'm coming for you!!!!

The thing that gets me, is the part with the giraffes. When Joel asked her if she wanted to turn around, she said something like we can't turn back now or it will all be for nothing. Right after that, she says to joel, "after this is all over we can go anywhere you want". That kinda shows me that Ellie didn't think she would have to die.
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Old 07-11-2013, 05:55 PM
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There were some intense moments in the game for me. To be honest I probably need to dust my room, because there was for some reason a lot of dust flying into my eyes making them water.

I don't know why, but the section when joel gets impailed, he was in a way pushing her away every time she wanted to help carry him. Then she ask joel, "can you walk? well then ****ing walk" that part man, holy crap I was seriously about to cry.

Then there was a part at the end of the winter section, after the ellie and david scene in the restaurant. Joel finally finds her, and holds her and says "it's ok baby girl", I really felt that. It reminded me of the beginning of the game when joel kept calling his daughter "baby". That was the moment it really hit me that Joel started to see her as a daughter like figure.

Another part was during the section when they meet up with tommy. Ellie finds out that joel wanted to hand her off and let tommy take her on the rest of the journey, and she gets upset and runs off. After that, Joel tells ellie to get off the horse, and says to tommy, "you're wife scares me" (even though that wasn;t the real reason), that moment really hit me too.

Never in my life have I been so attached to characters in a game before. I never thought that a video game could be so emotional.
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Old 07-11-2013, 06:08 PM - Thread Starter
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by the end of the game, I was so attached to ellie that I was willing to gun down ANYONE standing in my way. During the last level, all I kept thinking about was Eliie, I'm coming for you!!!!

Yeah, that's why I missed so much stuff. From winter forward, I pretty much stopped scavenging around for stuff, because I was way more interested in the narrative and playing the part than "playing the game." I didnt even try to stealth past the last few guys, I just gunned them down like they deserved.
Quote:
The thing that gets me, is the part with the giraffes. When Joel asked her if she wanted to turn around, she said something like we can't turn back now or it will all be for nothing. Right after that, she says to joel, "after this is all over we can go anywhere you want". That kinda shows me that Ellie didn't think she would have to die.

I believe this is in the concept art section, not sure if it's in the game though, just saw it posted online.



Also, at the very beginning in Sarah's room at the end of her dresser, there is a large giraffe stuffed animal sitting on the floor. Later, when Tess and Joel are passing through the market area looking for Robert, there is a little girl sitting on the ground playing with a little stuffed giraffe. When you get close to her, she pulls it in tight to her to protect it.

Very clever.....crazy attention to detail.

It definitely needs a second playthrough, because you'll see everything in an entirely different perspective.

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Old 07-11-2013, 06:45 PM - Thread Starter
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There were some intense moments in the game for me. To be honest I probably need to dust my room, because there was for some reason a lot of dust flying into my eyes making them water.

I don't know why, but the section when joel gets impailed, he was in a way pushing her away every time she wanted to help carry him. Then she ask joel, "can you walk? well then ****ing walk" that part man, holy crap I was seriously about to cry.

Then there was a part at the end of the winter section, after the ellie and david scene in the restaurant. Joel finally finds her, and holds her and says "it's ok baby girl", I really felt that. It reminded me of the beginning of the game when joel kept calling his daughter "baby". That was the moment it really hit me that Joel started to see her as a daughter like figure.

That's so much of why I liked her....she was a tough girl on the outside, but had a really tender heart and was super loyal. She didn't need you to physically save her, she just needed emotional support. If anything she probably ended up saving Joel's ass more often than not. Any time Joel was in trouble she didn't even think about herself before jumping in after him. Some of my favorite parts was when she was in jail and she breaks the guy's finger, or when bill handcuffs her. Any time she feels trapped she lashes out and lets them know she's not to be trifled with.
Quote:
Another part was during the section when they meet up with tommy. Ellie finds out that joel wanted to hand her off and let tommy take her on the rest of the journey, and she gets upset and runs off. After that, Joel tells ellie to get off the horse, and says to tommy, "you're wife scares me" (even though that wasn;t the real reason), that moment really hit me too.

Never in my life have I been so attached to characters in a game before. I never thought that a video game could be so emotional.

Yeah...it was such a teenage thing to do. Like, "you're gonna abandon me, huh? I'll show you what it's like to get abandoned!"

What was amazing about it is that they didn't need to spell out the emotions and their inner thoughts. It was all subtext...I can't think of any other game that respected the gamer's intelligence enough to do that. In order to get attached like that, they need to feel like real people....real people rarely say exactly what they're feeling, or even understand why they're doing what they're doing.

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Old 07-11-2013, 06:54 PM
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I thought the little girl was holding a teddy bear.

Another attention to detail is the first time Ellie looks at the view of the Capitol building, Joel looks at his watch his daughter gave him at his birthday, that was the first.
The movie Dawn of the wolf poster, was also in Sarah's room which we deduct he saw it we her.
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Old 07-12-2013, 08:18 AM
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buffer..........
words
words
words
words
words
words
words
words
words



I had no problems with the ending. Its exactly the decision I would have made under those conditions. The majority of the world and people depicted in the story were not worth saving....surely not worth sacrificing Ellie to do so.

For me the sequence at the winter lodge was the most emotional. The back and forth between what was happening to Ellie and Joel was in my opinion master storytelling. I would do the Ellie part......get REALLY pissed at what she was going thru........be back at controlling Joel and be REALLY pissed and anxious to get to her. Going all Jack Bauer on those 2 guys to get the location of Ellie was satisfying to say the least. That whole ACT or whatever they call it was my favorite.

And like someone else mentioned........from the winter lodge part to the end I really did not care much about the "gameplay".......just the narrative. At the hospital......I didn't give a **** about anything besides saving/finding Ellie. Just killed everyone and anything I could.........no time for stealth.......no mercy for the doctors.


Just a brilliant game. I really hope the industry takes a lesson here and we get more quality like this.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:33 AM
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And like someone else mentioned........from the winter lodge part to the end I really did not care much about the "gameplay".......just the narrative. At the hospital......I didn't give a **** about anything besides saving/finding Ellie. Just killed everyone and anything I could.........no time for stealth.......no mercy for the doctors.
Just a brilliant game. I really hope the industry takes a lesson here and we get more quality like this.

Oh yeah me too, well the 1st play. I just shot the 3 surgeons/doctors, I didn't even blink or think.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Oh yeah me too, well the 1st play. I just shot the 3 surgeons/doctors, I didn't even blink or think.

The first time I just shot the surgeon in the leg (which instantly killed him) and let the surgical assistants go...I have a similar a job to them, I guess I was sympathetic. The second play through I handled the issue manually....way more brutal than shooting them.

Honestly though I would have let them go if I could have.

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Old 07-12-2013, 10:01 AM
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The first time I just shot the surgeon in the leg (which instantly killed him) and let the surgical assistants go...I have a similar a job to them, I guess I was sympathetic. The second play through I handled the issue manually....way more brutal than shooting them.

Honestly though I would have let them go if I could have.

I axed the guy with the needle and shot the other two biggrin.gif Did make me wonder if I could have talked to them first or let them run away.
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Old 07-12-2013, 10:08 AM
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..I have a similar a job to them, I guess I was sympathetic.

Honestly though I would have let them go if I could have.

Yeah but the way I saw things was that these doctors/assistants were about to dissect a teenage girl because some gang leader said so. . I think if I were really in Joel's shoes under those condition there would be little sympathy for anyone taking part.

Just more proof of how good this game is.........I have never thought this much about how I would behave if really put into a situation depicted in a video game.
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Old 07-12-2013, 10:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah but the way I saw things was that these doctors/assistants were about to dissect a teenage girl because some gang leader said so. . I think if I were really in Joel's shoes under those condition there would be little sympathy for anyone taking part.

Just more proof of how good this game is.........I have never thought this much about how I would behave if really put into a situation depicted in a video game.

Yeah, but they're also surrounded by a group of armed thugs....no way to know if they were really doing this voluntarily. I don't know any medical professional that would consider even for a moment sacrificing one person to save another person, even another million people.

The surgeon puts a scalpel up to you though, so I'd say he was a willing participant and deserved what he got. Otherwise he would have just backed down. The other two...they just cowered in a corner. Couldn't bring myself to kill them. Just grabbed Ellie and walked out.

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Old 07-12-2013, 11:40 AM
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Yeah, but they're also surrounded by a group of armed thugs....no way to know if they were really doing this voluntarily. I don't know any medical professional that would consider even for a moment sacrificing one person to save another person, even another million people.

The surgeon puts a scalpel up to you though, so I'd say he was a willing participant and deserved what he got. Otherwise he would have just backed down. The other two...they just cowered in a corner. Couldn't bring myself to kill them. Just grabbed Ellie and walked out.

On my next play thru I might see how I feel when I get to that point and might leave the two others live.
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Old 07-16-2013, 10:17 PM
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i played this game twice through the whole story mode and i love it. it really makes other games look cheap :P except uncharted series. i wish they make a prequel to this game. go into details about what happened right after the outbreak. what happened between joel and tommy. how he met tess and why they hate robert. more fireflies details and maybe some info on where they got ellie from. they can actually do that from a completely different characters story line that slowly, as you play the game, interacts and join up with characters from the first game and answer some of those questions. maybe play as tommy. they can create another masterpiece for the PS4 i think. i hope. smile.gif
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Old 07-16-2013, 11:56 PM
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Just. So. Good.


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