How is Sony going to sell 4K TV's without 4K video games ? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 46 Old 09-05-2013, 07:45 PM
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Are you saying this is the wrong place for the Sony's 4K movie streaming announcement? If so, I disagree. All of our PSN accounts on the console were converted into SEN accounts, which allows us to access almost all of Sony's available digital content on many devices which includes game machines.

Since the 4K streaming movie service is on the SEN, it will no doubt be available for PS4 owners and is relevant to the PlayStation forum:
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Sony Entertainment Network's Video Unlimited 4K download service is now live, offering feature films, movies, short-form videos and TV shows in native 4K Ultra HD resolution for download to consumers with a Sony Ultra HD Media Player and Sony 4K Ultra HD TV. Feature films and TV episodes have been prepared with the ultimate picture and surround sound quality in mind, carefully optimized for the best viewing experience. Over 70 feature films and TV shows are now available through the service, with a library of more than 100 expected to become available in 4K Ultra HD before the end of the year.

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post #32 of 46 Old 09-05-2013, 07:57 PM
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post #33 of 46 Old 09-05-2013, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

I was at best buy the other day, and the 4K TV playing the 4K demo reel really wasn't impressive at all. It only seemed marginally sharper, although it might just be the material they were playing. It didnt give me that gotta have it feeling.

The OLED on the other hand, blew me away despite the freakish curve. I've never seen blacks like that, even on a CRT...it helped a lot that the panel wasn't all that reflective. If I had $9000 burning a hole in my pocket I'd definitely pick one up.  
I came away with the opposite impression when I was looking at the OLED and 4K sets at the Magnolia store. The 4K sets really blew me away. there was so much extra resolution even when you got very close. The OLED set did look nice, but for the price you can pick up a much larger 4K set.

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post #34 of 46 Old 09-05-2013, 10:49 PM
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Today's tvs should be able to downscale the 4k signal down to 1080p etc.

Should look pretty darn good too. Downscaling > upscaling.
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post #35 of 46 Old 09-05-2013, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by defdog99 View Post

Today's tvs should be able to downscale the 4k signal down to 1080p etc.

Should look pretty darn good too. Downscaling > upscaling.

Before we can say "4K" resolution games, I still like to see TRUE 1080p 60fps games. I don't want to see mixed some lower than 1080p textures mixed in the gameplay or random drop from 60fps to lower fps during heavy and very complex graphics on the screen. With PS4, upscaled graphics is no longer an excuse. But so many game developers are still unable to do it.

Next is using non-realtime or pre-recorded cutscenes. Just look at many of the PS4 game trailers. Still using non-realtime cutscenes. What bugs me is I still read some gamers are so impressived just looking at non-realtime cutscenes thinking that is how PS4 graphics supposed to be. The fact is if PS4 hardware is that powerful, first do all the cutscenes in realtime. Keep all the graphics at 60fps at all time. Every scene must be rendered in true 1080p. Until I see PS4 games can do all of the above, it's just "PS3.5" since you get some improvement only.

Next are more of a wish that I don't see any developers will do.

How about Pixar level of details? Like hair, real looking hair with thousands of individual hair that are all animated? Hollywood movie level details for CGI.

With 16X more RAM on PS4 and very powerful processors, I like to see the background objects more active when they far away on the camera. Right now, most graphics effects only occur at objects in the same area of your camera. All the objects far away from your camera feel like static images. If there are enemies very far away from your camera, they don't appear or fully animated. There is no more excuse for that now on PS4. But I don't think game developers will do it since there are just too much programming involved. Just see games like Beyond: Two Souls with level of details possible on PS3. Do you even think many PS4 games even going to reach that level of PS3? Only the marketing thinks so since they will say anything.

I just don't see the last two wishes happen on PS4 generation of games. It has nothing to do with if PS4 is hardware is capable but no developer can afford to spend that more work in doing them.
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post #36 of 46 Old 09-06-2013, 03:06 AM
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I obviously should have been more specific. I had 2 threads opened and posted something in this one by accident when it was supposed to have been in the other thread. When I realized my mistake, I deleted what I said and decided to post "wrong place" instead.
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post #37 of 46 Old 09-06-2013, 11:01 AM
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I've thought about this some more. And enlarged my view on it somewhat. IMO Sony is very committed to 4K HDTV displays...UHDTV...PS (all platforms)...Movies/Film...Photography...Blu-Ray...and Gaming...in no particular order. I now have no doubt that they foresee 4k games becoming relevant by the end of this generation of consoles. And certainly in the next PC gaming cycle of GPUs, APUs and CPUs. I even think Sony may believe Mobile device gaming may sneak past consoles in the race for relevance in that regard. So they are positioned very nicely with future resolution tech with a modest exposure with PS4. One that will grow IMO as they ramp up 4K in their displays (UHDTV, PC Monitors, Projectors). PS VIta will become very critical in their long range position IMO...as they evolve into this type of gaming, and fully exploit new experiences like VR and AR. I can even envision a scenario where Sony starts to gobble up Game making capacity like they did in film to enlarge their position. IMO, first on their radar screen should be Nintendo in its current weakened state re: the new consoles. They should gobble up Nintendo for no other reason than to capture their immensely popular library. Then muscle it up with Acquired IP from other studios under the Sony/Nintendo umbrella. 4K would be a major differentiator in such a context. One could envision Sony using such a Launchpad to launch Nintendo phones in 4K as part of an expanded DS line. And etc. I think a lot of unexpected wild scenarios like that will take place before the next generation ends. And in retrospect...I think Sony has positioned themselves quite well to grow in it with 4k gaming. They could lead the charge if they bought Nintendo and took all those kiddie franchises in that direction. It would make Sony and PS Brand generationally relevant for decades to come.
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post #38 of 46 Old 09-06-2013, 12:47 PM
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Sony isn't gonna buy Nintendo. They can't afford them. Might as well end that dream. I could see Nintendo eventually doing a Sega but that's as far as I think it'd go.
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post #39 of 46 Old 09-06-2013, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by pcweber111 View Post

Sony isn't gonna buy Nintendo. They can't afford them. Might as well end that dream. I could see Nintendo eventually doing a Sega but that's as far as I think it'd go.

You're probably right. But they are big enough to do it if they wanted too. They could certainly attract Venture capital to pull it off. And there are many examples of smaller corporations buying bigger ones. Deals like that happen more than people think. And it is really as simple as can they attract VC to back their play...while maintaining a clean balance sheet. Sony has a storehouse of residual income and very impressive assets to pledge against pretty much anything it wants to do. They are not hurting as much as the public thinks. Sooner or later they are going on a buying spree to rebuild their scale IMO. It may not be buying Nintendo...but I believe they will make a lot of noise in the next generation. Their non to subtle interest in VR and AR integration with PS4 are mentioned in the attached article. I really like where Sony seems to be headed in Gaming. They seem to know how all of the new hardware tech like 4K...3D...OLED/Crystal LED...VR mesh together for authentic new gaming experiences better than the other big players. I just wish I didn't dislike their controller so much. That is the only thing I am really "dreaming" for from Sony.

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post #40 of 46 Old 09-15-2013, 01:00 PM
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All marketing. TV manufactures need to keep coming up with new technologies to keep us buying TVs. Right now the push is OLED and 4K...
...But the 2014 Christmas season will be Ultra/Super OLED and 8K.

These greedy bastards don't even have the content for any of that.
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post #41 of 46 Old 09-15-2013, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyNurse View Post

All marketing. TV manufactures need to keep coming up with new technologies to keep us buying TVs. Right now the push is OLED and 4K...
...But the 2014 Christmas season will be Ultra/Super OLED and 8K.

These greedy bastards don't even have the content for any of that.

Don't you think it is interesting that CRT TV was around for many decades with only some improvements. The picture "resolution" was the same in the CRT through the entire lifetime. With digital, the manufacturers need to move the resolutions much quicker because they can only keep each tech, ie. 720/1080p for only a few years before they need a new tech to make more it more profitable. At least with 720p/1080p, there were many reasons to move from CRT, ie. LCD, thinner screen, much higher quality on either 720p or 1080p. There are still many casual users who went to digital mostly for the thinner screen, not if the screen can display more pixels than eyes can see. At least with Blu-ray, it takes full advantage of 1080p. Now, there is simply no good source to display 4K screen to the max. Even film has 4K resolution, it doesn't mean the picture quality is really 4K quality. Next problem is to get very good Blu-ray 1080p picture quality, it takes a lot of remastering to get it. Now try that with 4K. You are going to end up with most movies only getting 2K picture quality. Remastering the films to high picture quality at 4K resolution will also take serious amount of remastering which the movie studios will not want to do with exception of a few movies. My opinion is "4K" is a much easier to market as most casual consumers will get the marketing name "4K" even they have no idea what the possible picture quality can be. It's just basic math, 4K is "four times" higher than 1080 or 1K. But if you try to market 1080p OLED, most casual consumers will not understand the technology behind it since they can't visualize what OLED really is. Kind of like 3D. But now many casual consumers even understand that there are active and passive 3D? Now how many even know the 3D used on the theater is passive 3D? And now how many can even understand the differences between active and passive 3D? With other 3D tech that doesn't need 3D glasses, good luck trying to explain why there is sweet spot to watch it.

All I'm saying is "4K" resolution UHDTV is the only easiest excuse to sell the next TV tech at high price so that it's profitable for the manufacturers. All other TV techs are simply too complicated for casual consumers to understand it.
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post #42 of 46 Old 09-16-2013, 03:40 PM
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To demonstrate that resolution is not nearly as important as it seems.

Didn't we all learn this with projectors like the SP4805? Priority should be on contrast, then color accuracy THEN resolution.

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post #43 of 46 Old 09-17-2013, 10:40 AM
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I understand OLED and 4K, the image is SUPERB, but I don´t need it.
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post #44 of 46 Old 09-17-2013, 10:55 AM
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Is it easier to justify 4k by saying it has a 20 year life ?

Give the current regular HDTV platform 5 more years, its suddenly 20 year old tech (first HDTV was 1998).

Starting ramping up the world for 4k tvs by 2018, it will be the next standard till 2038.

We'll be old and grey in 2040.
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post #45 of 46 Old 09-18-2013, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by defdog99 View Post

Is it easier to justify 4k by saying it has a 20 year life ?

Give the current regular HDTV platform 5 more years, its suddenly 20 year old tech (first HDTV was 1998).

Starting ramping up the world for 4k tvs by 2018, it will be the next standard till 2038.

We'll be old and grey in 2040.

How do you estimate a 20 year life? Manufacturers are already testing 8K technology.

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post #46 of 46 Old 09-18-2013, 08:34 AM
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The movie industry needs to always be 1 step ahead to give people reason to go to theaters.
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