Can an XBR960 be used for the upcoming Playstation4? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 09-19-2013, 03:48 AM - Thread Starter
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I see that Playstation4 is 1080p, while the XBR is 1080i. However, Playstation4 uses only HDMI and the XBR960 has a HDMI. So does PS4 work with the XBR960?

Also, if it does work, there will clearly be many disadvantages to using this old CRT to play PS4. Having said that, is there ANY advantages,however slight, to using this CRT to play PS4(and that is if it even works!)?

Thanks guys
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Old 09-19-2013, 06:10 AM
 
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Does it take a 720P signal? If so you can just have the PS4 scale it down and send that (and you TV will scale it back up).

1080i support, unfortunately, is almost dead.
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Old 09-19-2013, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by rookiemember View Post

I see that Playstation4 is 1080p, while the XBR is 1080i. However, Playstation4 uses only HDMI and the XBR960 has a HDMI. So does PS4 work with the XBR960?

Also, if it does work, there will clearly be many disadvantages to using this old CRT to play PS4. Having said that, is there ANY advantages,however slight, to using this CRT to play PS4(and that is if it even works!)?

Thanks guys

Yeah, there's plenty of advantages....that's the best consumer CRT ever made. You won't be getting as sharp a picture as a flat panel, but you should have killer black levels and excellent input lag. I'd rather play on that than any LCD it's size.

I used to have the step down from that, I think it was an XBR320 or something like that....I loved that TV so much, I wish I had kept it around as a spare. Only prob is it was like 300 something pounds and required a team of people to move it.

Worst case you'll need a HDMI to component convertor, but I'm sure you'll be able to get it to work. That's a great TV for gaming, never let it go. smile.gif

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Old 11-17-2013, 07:48 AM
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So most likely 1080p PS4 games will not render at 1080i?
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Old 11-17-2013, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Gage33 View Post

So most likely 1080p PS4 games will not render at 1080i?

 

II'll give it a try later today.


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Old 11-17-2013, 03:42 PM
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II'll give it a try later today.

Awesome thanks
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Old 11-17-2013, 08:39 PM
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Playing in 1080i now - it's def rendering at full 1080i, I'm 100% sure of it.
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Old 11-17-2013, 09:58 PM
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Excellent. Thanks for confirming this.
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Old 11-18-2013, 03:45 AM
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Excellent. Thanks for confirming this.

When you get it, give 720p a try as well though to see which looks better to you. It looked like it was just throwing away half the pixels at 1080i. Setting the PS4 to 720p doesn't render the game natively at 720p, it downscales from 1080p (a good thing.) Direct 1080i will probably be sharper, but 720p upscaled to 1080i may look a little softer but better and more stable overall. Let me know how it goes.

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Old 11-18-2013, 06:53 AM
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Playing in 1080i now - it's def rendering at full 1080i, I'm 100% sure of it.

Are you sure the game is actually being rendered at 1080i and not scaled by the PS4?

If it is actually being rendered by the game, will this be a game by game decision to support rendering at 1080i?

Thanks for looking into this!
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Old 11-18-2013, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Gage33 View Post


Are you sure the game is actually being rendered at 1080i and not scaled by the PS4?

If it is actually being rendered by the game, will this be a game by game decision to support rendering at 1080i?

Thanks for looking into this!

 

The best I can tell, the game is being rendered at 1080p, and then half the lines of each frame are dropped. On a still image I could see that the 1:1 pixel matching was maintained, honestly it looked incredibly close to 1080p. I'm 100% positive it's not upscaling from 720p or anything like that, 1080i was clearly sharper. But I'm testing on a 1080p TV, it's being deinterlaced. I highly suggest you try both 720p and 1080i to see which one looks better to you in game...there's a good case to be made for both on a native 1080i TV. 

 

Based on the fact that I could change the resolution mid-game without the game throwing a fit, the game itself has no idea it's 1080i, so there's no worry about game to game support...the PS4 takes care of it.


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Old 11-18-2013, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

The best I can tell, the game is being rendered at 1080p, and then half the lines of each frame are dropped. On a still image I could see that the 1:1 pixel matching was maintained, honestly it looked incredibly close to 1080p. I'm 100% positive it's not upscaling from 720p or anything like that, 1080i was clearly sharper. But I'm testing on a 1080p TV, it's being deinterlaced. I highly suggest you try both 720p and 1080i to see which one looks better to you in game...there's a good case to be made for both on a native 1080i TV. 

Based on the fact that I could change the resolution mid-game without the game throwing a fit, the game itself has no idea it's 1080i, so there's no worry about game to game support...the PS4 takes care of it.

I'm not an expert in scaling, but I guess what you are saying is down scaling from 1080p is much better than up scaling from 720p, ie no introduced artifacts?

I am assuming the PS4 is doing hardware scaling this go around?

If your TV supports both 720p and 1080i will the PS4 choose 1080i by default?

That's great that you can do it mid game, it makes it easier to do a comparison.

Sorry for all the questions and thanks for the great info! It has been hard to find these answers since 99.9% of people don't care about 1080i.
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Old 11-18-2013, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Gage33 View Post


I'm not an expert in scaling, but I guess what you are saying is down scaling from 1080p is much better than up scaling from 720p, ie no introduced artifacts?

I am assuming the PS4 is doing hardware scaling this go around?

If your TV supports both 720p and 1080i will the PS4 choose 1080i by default?

That's great that you can do it mid game, it makes it easier to do a comparison.

Sorry for all the questions and thanks for the great info! It has been hard to find these answers since 99.9% of people don't care about 1080i.

 

I dunno what it chooses by default, but it's easy to change. The PS4 is definitely hardware scaling. And yes, downscaling is always better for games, since native rendering of game produces artifacts. By downscaling 1080p to 720p, it reduces those artifacts - rendering directly at 720p would have more noticeable artifacts than downscaled 1080p. (google supersampling antialiasing - 1080p to 720p is 2X SSAA)    

 

But here's where it gets tricky for you. 1080p-1080i isn't scaling - it's technically the same resolution, but only every other horizontal line is displayed. So native 1080i is going to have the typical rendering artifacts, plus the artifacts introduced by the interlacing. It will look very sharp, but potentially very jagged as well. By feeding your TV 720p, first it's downscaling and hiding those jagged edges, then your TV will take it from there are upconvert 720p to 1080i - I'm guessing it will look smoother compared to direct 1080i.  Both 720p and 1080i are roughly 1 megapixel per frame, so either way you're feeding your TV roughly the same amount of information.

 

So try both, don't just assume 1080i will look better. And report back, I'm honestly kind of curious. I'm thinking you might like 720p better...but make sure you try it out in game, ignore the fact that the interface will look a little sharper in 1080i. Pay attention to the way everything in the distance shimmers and thin objects seem to break apart as you move around in 1080i. In the end decide for yourself which looks better.     


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Old 11-18-2013, 08:06 AM
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I dunno what it chooses by default, but it's easy to change. The PS4 is definitely hardware scaling. And yes, downscaling is always better for games, since native rendering of game produces artifacts. By downscaling 1080p to 720p, it reduces those artifacts - rendering directly at 720p would have more noticeable artifacts than downscaled 1080p. (google supersampling antialiasing - 1080p to 720p is 2X SSAA)    

But here's where it gets tricky for you. 1080p-1080i isn't scaling - it's technically the same resolution, but only every other horizontal line is displayed. So native 1080i is going to have the typical rendering artifacts, plus the artifacts introduced by the interlacing. It will look very sharp, but potentially very jagged as well. By feeding your TV 720p, first it's downscaling and hiding those jagged edges, then your TV will take it from there are upconvert 720p to 1080i - I'm guessing it will look smoother compared to direct 1080i.  Both 720p and 1080i are roughly 1 megapixel per frame, so either way you're feeding your TV roughly the same amount of information.

So try both, don't just assume 1080i will look better. And report back, I'm honestly kind of curious. I'm thinking you might like 720p better...but make sure you try it out in game, ignore the fact that the interface will look a little sharper in 1080i. Pay attention to the way everything in the distance shimmers and thin objects seem to break apart as you move around in 1080i. In the end decide for yourself which looks better.     

One thing I am not quite getting. Should 1080p interlaced down to 1080i look exactly the same as if it where just rendered directly at 1080i since it is just displaying ever other line? Isn't that what natively rendered 1080i does? Or am I missing something here?

Regarding your question of 720p vs 1080i. Shouldn't we just be able to look at how PS3 games looked 720p vs 1080i for games that supported 1080i? I haven't done enough direct comparisons to say. From my experience, the Sony HD CRTs do really well with 1080i signals without many interlacing artifacts (I have the 34xs955n). I think the more lines of resolution provides more benefit than any potential interlacing problems.
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Old 11-18-2013, 08:53 AM
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One thing I am not quite getting. Should 1080p interlaced down to 1080i look exactly the same as if it where just rendered directly at 1080i since it is just displaying ever other line? Isn't that what natively rendered 1080i does? Or am I missing something here?

They won't necessarily look the same. There are multiple ways to convert 1080p-1080i. They can just drop every other line, drop every other line and use a filter to reduce shimmering, or they could incorporate some of the extra information in 1080p to increase the quality of conversion vs just dropping lines. What is the PS4 doing? Given that a still image looks exactly as sharp in 1080p as 1080i, I believe it's just dropping lines.
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Regarding your question of 720p vs 1080i. Shouldn't we just be able to look at how PS3 games looked 720p vs 1080i for games that supported 1080i? I haven't done enough direct comparisons to say. From my experience, the Sony HD CRTs do really well with 1080i signals without many interlacing artifacts (I have the 34xs955n). I think the more lines of resolution provides more benefit than any potential interlacing problems.

PS3 didn't have a hardware scaler, so it's not comparable. And PS3 games were almost always rendered at 720p and then scaled in software to 1080i in god knows what way...if they were even scaled at all. And then who knows what image processing the TV does with the 1080i. And that wouldn't factor in the potential image quality increase from downscaling 1080p to 720p. Way too many factors to even try and compare.

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Old 11-19-2013, 06:32 PM
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Damn....I would love to see battlefield 4 on a sony xbr960, I think it looks sick on a plasma cant imagine it on the CRT

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