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post #91 of 113 Old 05-01-2014, 11:00 PM
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So just to rule everything out, I took my receiver out of the loop. And now the ps4 passes BTB/WTW in full. Put the receiver back on....and it's clipped. Strange thing though, is my PC passes BTB/WTW just fine in full whether or not it's connected through the receiver. Even under the same port, with the same settings. So there's still something funny going on with the ps4 in full. Limited is fine in either case, so it's still the safest bet. It's possible that some displays may or may not react similarly...who knows. PS4 is weird, nothing makes sense on this damn thing.
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post #92 of 113 Old 05-02-2014, 02:06 AM
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To be safe I keep my setting on automatic, along with my display. Seems to pass everything just fine, but I had read a while back that automatic, as an RGB setting on the PS4, is actually the same as the limited setting as far as what's being passed. Again, this will not affect content such as Blu Rays but will for any apps or programs using RGB, which is the XMB menu, apps like NetFlix, and games.

But I think as long as the display is set to take the content from the PS4 without any conflicts (auto/auto, Full/nonstandard, etc) then this isn't an issue, but how some displays behave with the PS4 and how setups can vary may affect this. Or it could be an issue with receivers (or the PS4) not doing a proper 'pass through' or even 'upscale' to send the signal through the HDMI chain without some sort of processing or lack thereof.

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post #93 of 113 Old 05-02-2014, 05:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadwarrior980 View Post

To be safe I keep my setting on automatic, along with my display. Seems to pass everything just fine, but I had read a while back that automatic, as an RGB setting on the PS4, is actually the same as the limited setting as far as what's being passed. Again, this will not affect content such as Blu Rays but will for any apps or programs using RGB, which is the XMB menu, apps like NetFlix, and games.

But I think as long as the display is set to take the content from the PS4 without any conflicts (auto/auto, Full/nonstandard, etc) then this isn't an issue, but how some displays behave with the PS4 and how setups can vary may affect this. Or it could be an issue with receivers (or the PS4) not doing a proper 'pass through' or even 'upscale' to send the signal through the HDMI chain without some sort of processing or lack thereof.

Yeah, in my experience automatic will always send limited. Even if I force the display to full range it's not like the ps4 detects that and switches accordingly.

As far as the clipping in full goes, it's not a problem per se....it only clips what's BTB/WTW anyway. It's technically trying to do the right thing. My display is calibrated so I wouldn't see below 16 anyway....but I'd rather not lose the top 10% of the signal. With the receiver out of the picture I couldn't see any difference either...but even if full range doesn't always harm the image, I still can't see a situation where it would help either.

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post #94 of 113 Old 05-02-2014, 07:10 AM - Thread Starter
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What's the make of your receiver? Denon is known to not pass RGB full that's why I bought a Sony receiver. I have my PS4 RGB set to Full. You can see the picture I posted last night of Outlast looked perfect. I'll played some Infamous as well and with deep color on it looks spectacular.


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post #95 of 113 Old 05-02-2014, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post

What's the make of your receiver? Denon is known to not pass RGB full that's why I bought a Sony receiver. I have my PS4 RGB set to Full. You can see the picture I posted last night of Outlast looked perfect. I'll played some Infamous as well and with deep color on it looks spectacular.


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Anthem MRX300.

It passes 0-16 and 235-255 in 16-235/limited mode, so it's not just clipping everything outright.

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post #96 of 113 Old 05-02-2014, 12:49 PM
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You know with the option to switch HDCP 'off' or 'on' on PS4. I hooked it up to an analog port on my display via VGA with HDCP 'off' and to my surprise it sets by itself automatically RGB & YCbCr to 'Full', Deep color auto, resolution Auto. This leads me to believe my settings are correct when gaming on a CPU monitor.

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post #97 of 113 Old 05-02-2014, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Gamerphile1 View Post

You know with the option to switch HDCP 'off' or 'on' on PS4. I hooked it up to an analog port on my display via VGA with HDCP 'off' and to my surprise it sets by itself automatically RGB & YCbCr to 'Full', Deep color auto, resolution Auto. This leads me to believe my settings are correct when gaming on a CPU monitor.

Or they're just assuming that anyone who wants to turn HDCP off is using a PC capture card and needs to work in 0-255.

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post #98 of 113 Old 05-02-2014, 01:11 PM
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I have a Sony STR DN840. I would hope that a sony receiver would pass such signals to the PS3 and PS4 without fault and I believe this is the case.

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post #99 of 113 Old 05-02-2014, 01:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadwarrior980 View Post

I have a Sony STR DN840. I would hope that a sony receiver would pass such signals to the PS3 and PS4 without fault and I believe this is the case.

I own the 1040 receiver and your 840 will work with Sonys new Triloumious TVs.
The receivers also support xvYCC color. Sony receivers usually have awesome video
capability.
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post #100 of 113 Old 05-02-2014, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Alright, here's some in game proof of what I'm talking about. I'm using outlast, a game most PS4 people should have gotten for free.

Here's the calibration screen, with the slider pushed all the way up and brightness jacked up on the PJ (exactly at the same level on both), to raise the black floor and bring out any clipping.

Limited on both PJ and PS4
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
:

Notice how you can still see the logo?


Now here's full on both.


Even with the brightness jacked up on the PJ, and the in-game slider all the way....the logo is clipped.  This is basically incontrovertible proof that they're converting from limited to full by just clipping data.  Notice how you can't see anything behind the figure on the right? Also clipped. In limited, you can clearly see the brick wall behind him, and the shadow he casts on it. In full....nothing.

Now here's default settings in game, with the PJ restored to proper calibration.

First, limited - notice how you can still see the guy?





Now full...he's gone.




So using full completely changes what you're going to see in game for the worse, even if you calibrate it properly in full. A lot of shadow detail is simply thrown away in full, to the point where nothing you can do in game or on your PJ can bring it back.

So basically....use limited, because you'll get the full range.  If you use full, your range will be limited. I know that sounds backwards, but that's the deal. And it's not a bug.

This is weird. When I was messing with this when I first got my PS4 I had the same issue with crushing the blacks when I set the PS4 to full...but then I found out that my TV (Panny TC-P50G25) was still limited. Once I set my TV from standard to non standard I got my shadow detail back. This is why I think a lot of this dependent upon what gear people have in their chain. For me it its PS4 ----> Onkyo TX-NR1008 ----> Panny TC-P50G25 (I have my Onk set to pass through for my PS4).

edit: just read your post where you took your AVR out of the chain...weird I must say.
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post #101 of 113 Old 05-02-2014, 01:54 PM
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The only thing in absolutely certain of at this point is that it's ridiculous that we still need to deal with this on diigital displays.
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post #102 of 113 Old 05-02-2014, 02:17 PM
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After reading this whole damn thread, I am still confused as ever. I have a Sony W900A and PS4. I think I'll just leave everything as automatic when playing games and watching movies on the PS4.
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post #103 of 113 Old 05-02-2014, 02:25 PM
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Well here's the part I'm stumped on right now. If limited passes BTB and WTW in-game, it's using all 256 steps. Full obviously is as well. Both are being fed by the same 8bit frame buffer....that means one of them has to be a conversion of the other.

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post #104 of 113 Old 05-02-2014, 09:07 PM
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Curious, could each specific game title call for a specific RGB range?

I just wonder if some are designed for limited and others for full. Or if some are better designed in this regard than others.
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post #105 of 113 Old 05-02-2014, 10:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newtophoto View Post

After reading this whole damn thread, I am still confused as ever. I have a Sony W900A and PS4. I think I'll just leave everything as automatic when playing games and watching movies on the PS4.

I have the same setup and your fine with that selection. Both are new Sony products and talk to each other through Bravia sync.
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post #106 of 113 Old 05-03-2014, 04:05 AM
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I get no video signal on my Onkyo 828 when Deep Color is enabled after the v1.70 update. Also, if I connect the PS4 to one of the '4K' labelled HDMI ports on the receiver the picture is flickery and unstable, Deep Color off on both the console and the amp. It's perfect on the other ports. PS4 HDMI implementation seems really buggy to me, loads of threads on the official boards with HDMI related issues.

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post #107 of 113 Old 05-07-2014, 08:00 PM
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Hello. I picked up a Samsung 2233 monitor today, which has 1080p and HDCP. No HDMI port. Only VGA and DVI.

Should I have no problems with a HDMI to DVI cord?
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post #108 of 113 Old 05-08-2014, 07:44 PM
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Nope, just update to the newest PS4 firmware update, and use the DVI connection with HDMI connector and you're good to go.

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post #109 of 113 Old 06-06-2014, 04:06 PM
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What is the difference between ycbcr limited and full? Is it the same as the rgb settings? Where limited is 16-235, full is 0-255?
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post #110 of 113 Old 06-07-2014, 12:15 PM
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post #111 of 113 Old 07-18-2014, 04:13 PM
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So what's the verdict on Deep Color? I get setting RGB And Y Pb... to Limited. Does it even matter what I choose for Deep Color?

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post #112 of 113 Old 07-19-2014, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post
Well here's the part I'm stumped on right now. If limited passes BTB and WTW in-game, it's using all 256 steps. Full obviously is as well. Both are being fed by the same 8bit frame buffer....that means one of them has to be a conversion of the other.
Has anyone tried to test banding on one verses the other? If limited has more banding than it is being rendered at 0-255 if full has an uneven progression of banding that it is being rendered at 16-235 and converted to 0-255. Since the PS4 is obviously only rendering at one of these it would be really nice to know what is he native one so I can display it without on conversion.
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post #113 of 113 Old 07-19-2014, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by reallynotnick View Post
Has anyone tried to test banding on one verses the other? If limited has more banding than it is being rendered at 0-255 if full has an uneven progression of banding that it is being rendered at 16-235 and converted to 0-255. Since the PS4 is obviously only rendering at one of these it would be really nice to know what is he native one so I can display it without on conversion.

I tried, but it's really not obvious one way or another.

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