Not using Official Sony Components? Your warrantee is voided! - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 162 Old 01-18-2007, 05:17 AM
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The solution to it all is.. Have sony warranty every claim that comes down the pipe... Nevermind the Legions of idiots out there doing damage to the products. Just fix everything under warranty. Had Sony done that in the past...well I guess we wouldnt have a PS3 to be complaining about, because they would have went bankrupt a long time ago.
Im no huge fan of Sony or any other CE Manfu. They ALL do this, some are better and some are worse...much much worse. The key as a consumer is to Cover your A$$. KNOW what you are doing and getting into. Ignorance on the part of the consumer is what the call centers are counting on. Friend of mine is on his 3rd 360..each one was a fight with MS call center trying to get him to spend the 90 bucks for the repair, he fought it, and got it for free. Some people have good luck, some have bad. It's not a Sony only thing..so please...lets just jump off the "Bash the Hell out of Sony" Bandwagon. It's an Industry wide thing.
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post #92 of 162 Old 01-18-2007, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vivithemage View Post

wow, its a comp. cable...that is not the culprit!

Many things like rules and warranties change gaming in the 4rth Dimension...
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post #93 of 162 Old 01-18-2007, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XFistsClenchedX View Post

Sony is one of the worst companies I've ever seen when it comes to taking care of consumers. Between lies and poor customer service, I'm surprised anyone is willing to purchase their products.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XFistsClenchedX View Post

It was more than likely an issue with the PS3 issue itself, not the connections. There aren't any more 360s falling apart than PS3s.

* http://www.consumeraffairs.com/home_...nics/xbox.html - Xbox complaints
* http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0..._gamers02.html - Gamers Say Microsoft Understates Xbox Problems (I especially like the part where EA games said that 30-50% of the 300 Xbox 360s they received failed)
* http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0..._petition.html - Angry Xbox Owners Signing Recall Petition (Why? Because Microsoft refused to fix obvious hardware problems and charged people $140 to fix it because their Xbox360 was out of its 3 month warrenty)
* http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0..._warranty.html - Microsoft Extends Xbox 360 Warranty to One Year

The 2nd and 3rd article were in December of 2006, and the 4th article was in September of 2006.

If I could find the link to the Xbox360 forums, I would show you the numerous complaints of people's Xbox360s cracking their games, and then Microsoft customer service claiming that it was because people mishandled their discs.
[EDIT]
Found it.
* http://forums.xbox.com/1/1029398/ShowPost.aspx#1029398
* http://forums.xbox.com/9647919/ShowPost.aspx

I question your claims of "great" Microsoft customer service and failure rates of the Xbox360.
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post #94 of 162 Old 01-18-2007, 08:23 AM
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$600 for a console
$65-140 for games
$1500-4000 for a hd tv
Spending the extra $10 to get a real Sony cable so that you do not have to deal with bs like this.
:PRICELESS

It is a crappy rule but it is there for a reason. Just get the damn Sony, MS, or Nintendo cables and have no future worries.
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post #95 of 162 Old 01-18-2007, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traylorc View Post

Folks we all need to understand that a multi-billion dollar conglomerate has access to their own team of in house lawyers that have more knowledge regarding consumer product law than all of us combined. So before everyone starts a rally cry for some needless, and unwinnable litigation, you better have a clear understanding of the law.

I have friends who has PS2s that were told the same thing as the OP when they had issues with their units....so obviously this has been Sony's "policy" for an extended perioed of time. Believe me if Sony's policy were the foundation of a class action lawsuit it would have been filed years ago.


Exactly. Basically every companies policy is that if you use products from other companies with their product then the warranty is voided. That makes perfet sense. If you owned a copany you would not want to be held responsible for testing and certifying every product out there, and making sure it was safe over the long term with your product.

Even MS has this policy.

But......the letter of the law is different that the spirit of the law and how it is ultimately adjudicated. Sony should stand by their product if you use non sony cables. That's ridiculous. A cable is basically a cable. It's not like your stuffing a PB and J sandwich into the Blu ray drive and then demanding your money back calling the PS3 a faulty product!

Sony allows you to replace the hard drive, and even show you how in the manual! Maybe they state, "here is how to do it, but if you do you are on your own". I don't know.

Whats next. You have voided your warranty because you plugged it into an outlet carrying electricity not certified by Sony?
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post #96 of 162 Old 01-18-2007, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamelover360 View Post

A cable is basically a cable. It's not like your stuffing a PB and J sandwich into the Blu ray drive and then demanding your money back calling the PS3 a faulty product!

Sony allows you to replace the hard drive, and even show you how in the manual! Maybe they state, "here is how to do it, but if you do you are on your own". I don't know.

Whats next. You have voided your warranty because you plugged it into an outlet carrying electricity not certified by Sony?

The PS1/2/3 A/V cables are not just any cable. They will not work with anything other than the PS1/2/3. If the 3rd party cable is not wired correctly, it is not Sony's fault that the cables caused a short that killed the system. If you've ever worked with computers, you'd know that hardware is very easily damaged by static electricity. It doesn't take much to damage hardware components. A lightning struck a tree in my neighbors yard, on the other side of the house, and it still managed to blow up my modem because my modem was not plugged into my surge protector.

In regards to the HDD, the SATA connection is an industry standard, just like HDMI. Sony doesn't make the cables for that. If there was something wrong with that connection, then that's their fault. If something is wrong with the HDD, that is the HDD company's fault. If the HDD upgrade wasn't working on your PS3, but it works fine with the standard HDD, are you going to call Sony to complain? Or are you going to call the manufacturer of the HDD?
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post #97 of 162 Old 01-18-2007, 08:53 AM
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Its not the cable its the connector.. A connector that is a Sony propritary design. Why can people understand that and STOP mixing and matching it with Industry standards. And the kicker to all this is... The Aftermarket cables the OP posted cost about 3 times as much as the Sony originals...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16879100014



Quote:
Originally Posted by gamelover360 View Post

But......the letter of the law is different that the spirit of the law and how it is ultimately adjudicated. Sony should stand by their product if you use non sony cables. That's ridiculous. A cable is basically a cable. It's not like your stuffing a PB and J sandwich into the Blu ray drive and then demanding your money back calling the PS3 a faulty product!

Sony allows you to replace the hard drive, and even show you how in the manual! Maybe they state, "here is how to do it, but if you do you are on your own". I don't know.

Whats next. You have voided your warranty because you plugged it into an outlet carrying electricity not certified by Sony?

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post #98 of 162 Old 01-18-2007, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ppshooky View Post

* http://www.consumeraffairs.com/home_...nics/xbox.html - Xbox complaints
* http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0..._gamers02.html - Gamers Say Microsoft Understates Xbox Problems (I especially like the part where EA games said that 30-50% of the 300 Xbox 360s they received failed)
* http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0..._petition.html - Angry Xbox Owners Signing Recall Petition (Why? Because Microsoft refused to fix obvious hardware problems and charged people $140 to fix it because their Xbox360 was out of its 3 month warrenty)
* http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0..._warranty.html - Microsoft Extends Xbox 360 Warranty to One Year

The 2nd and 3rd article were in December of 2006, and the 4th article was in September of 2006.

If I could find the link to the Xbox360 forums, I would show you the numerous complaints of people's Xbox360s cracking their games, and then Microsoft customer service claiming that it was because people mishandled their discs.
[EDIT]
Found it.
* http://forums.xbox.com/1/1029398/ShowPost.aspx#1029398
* http://forums.xbox.com/9647919/ShowPost.aspx

I question your claims of "great" Microsoft customer service and failure rates of the Xbox360.

shhhh, dont tell anyone... at least Sony doesnt have policy where using "unlicensed" games voids your warranty... lol

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post #99 of 162 Old 01-18-2007, 10:53 AM
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Does Psyclone have any sort of warranty? Many of the unlicensed product makers tend to have a "we'll fix it if this breaks your system". Granted, they'll probably do anything they can to prove ANYTHING other than their cable broke your system but given you could claim Sony won't fix it specifically due to the (perceived) cable malfunction, it might be a leg to stand on. (and very good PR for Psyclone)

All this said, I'm a bit nervous about the unlicensed 3rd party Wii Svideo cable I'm using.
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post #100 of 162 Old 01-18-2007, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamelover360 View Post

Exactly. Basically every companies policy is that if you use products from other companies with their product then the warranty is voided. That makes perfet sense.

It might make sense to you, but it's specifically prohibited by law.

Check out Title 15 of the United States Code, section 2302 (c). It's in chapter 50.
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post #101 of 162 Old 01-18-2007, 11:10 AM
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Anyone care to list which Sony Component cables are officially licensed by Sony if ragedogg's Psyclone is considered a non-licensed cable?
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post #102 of 162 Old 01-18-2007, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FourDoor View Post

Anyone care to list which Sony Component cables are officially licensed by Sony if ragedogg's Psyclone is considered a non-licensed cable?

I'd be amazed if they weren't licensed. The package uses the PS3 trademark.
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post #103 of 162 Old 01-18-2007, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnythan View Post

It might make sense to you, but it's specifically prohibited by law.

Check out Title 15 of the United States Code, section 2302 (c). It's in chapter 50.

Quote:


(c) Prohibition on conditions for written or implied warranty; waiver by Commission No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the Commission if -

(1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and

(2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest. The Commission shall identify in the Federal Register, and permit public comment on, all applications for waiver of the prohibition of this subsection, and shall publish in the Federal Register its disposition of any such application, including the reasons therefor.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that say the company (in this case, SCEI) is allowed to put a condition on their product if they prove to the Comission that the product (PS3) will function properly if used with the warranted product (SCEI's composite cables).

I suppose you can have Sony prove to you that it was the cables fault, but if they find that it is, infact, the cables that caused the breakdown of the PS3, then they can charge you anything they want for wasting their time because you wanted to save a little money by buying the cheaper cables.
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post #104 of 162 Old 01-18-2007, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamelover360 View Post


But......the letter of the law is different that the spirit of the law and how it is ultimately adjudicated.


and herein lies the exact problem. as i've demonstrated, microsoft and many, many others have very similar clauses in their warranty statements. the KEY difference is how sony will go to unusual and extensive lengths to blame any and all problems on these unlicensed accessories. case in point: i've seen sony refuse to warranty a playstation because the user applied one of those console skinz to the lid of the console...now, call me crazy, but that's just insane...i try to remain unbiased through it all, but the fact of the matter is that sony and sony alone has a long history of "sticking" to this policy unlike any other.

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post #105 of 162 Old 01-18-2007, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FourDoor View Post

Anyone care to list which Sony Component cables are officially licensed by Sony if ragedogg's Psyclone is considered a non-licensed cable?

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Sony-...oductDetail.do

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post #106 of 162 Old 01-18-2007, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnythan View Post

I'd be amazed if they weren't licensed. The package uses the PS3 trademark.

be amazed then, because they are unlicensed...

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post #107 of 162 Old 01-18-2007, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ppshooky View Post

I question your claims of "great" Microsoft customer service and failure rates of the Xbox360.

That's all well and good but many of those issues are issues of consumer negligence. For instance, the guy who was pissed at Microsoft because he was on his 7th 360. He took a picture of his setup and showed everyone so that they could see his 360 was well ventilated and all that. He was right. It was in a safe place sitting on his subwoofer. I'm not denying Microsoft doesn't have lemons floating around out there, but certainly not any more than Sony has. Sony has had plenty of class action lawsuits of it's own and plenty of broken PS3s. You don't see a whole lot of broken PS3s because Sony hasn't sold a whole lot of PS3s. My own 360 probably has issues because it stayed on the carpet since I didn't have anywhere else to put it while I played. It's not there any longer but that and the fact that it was somewhat close to a subwoofer (again couldn't be helped at the time) probably contributed to my 360s issues. You can disagree with my claims of Microsofts great customer service, but if you go to an xbox messageboard, you will find that the majority of them are happy with the service they've received.
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post #108 of 162 Old 01-18-2007, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ppshooky View Post

I suppose you can have Sony prove to you that it was the cables fault, but if they find that it is, infact, the cables that caused the breakdown of the PS3, then they can charge you anything they want for wasting their time because you wanted to save a little money by buying the cheaper cables.

The solution is simple. Sony should have taken the PS3 back and tested it, but informed him beforehand that if the technician that examines the console determines that the issue is the fault of unlicensed products then he would be charged the $150 repair fee. If it was determined that it was the fault of the console itself, then it would be repaired free of charge.
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post #109 of 162 Old 01-18-2007, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnythan View Post

I'd be amazed if they weren't licensed. The package uses the PS3 trademark.

Does the warranty card that comes with the cable say something like the following?

Quote:


Playstaion and PS3 are registered trademarks of Sony Entertainment Inc. (SCEI). This product is not sponsored, endorsed or approved by SCEI.

That was taken directly from the user's guide for Mad Catz's composite cables for the PS3.
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post #110 of 162 Old 01-18-2007, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XFistsClenchedX View Post

That's all well and good but many of those issues are issues of consumer negligence. For instance, the guy who was pissed at Microsoft because he was on his 7th 360. He took a picture of his setup and showed everyone so that they could see his 360 was well ventilated and all that. He was right. It was in a safe place sitting on his subwoofer. I'm not denying Microsoft doesn't have lemons floating around out there, but certainly not any more than Sony has. Sony has had plenty of class action lawsuits of it's own and plenty of broken PS3s. You don't see a whole lot of broken PS3s because Sony hasn't sold a whole lot of PS3s. My own 360 probably has issues because it stayed on the carpet since I didn't have anywhere else to put it while I played. It's not there any longer but that and the fact that it was somewhat close to a subwoofer (again couldn't be helped at the time) probably contributed to my 360s issues. You can disagree with my claims of Microsofts great customer service, but if you go to an xbox messageboard, you will find that the majority of them are happy with the service they've received.

Did you bother reading the other articles? Or even what other people posted on the Xbox message forum?

People will insert their game into the Xbox360, leave it in there for weeks on end, and then take it out when the machine suddenly becomes unplayable and found cracks on their Xbox360.

As for customer satisfaction, you should read the articles by ConsumerAffairs.com.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XFistsClenchedX View Post

The solution is simple. Sony should have taken the PS3 back and tested it, but informed him beforehand that if the technician that examines the console determines that the issue is the fault of unlicensed products then he would be charged the $150 repair fee. If it was determined that it was the fault of the console itself, then it would be repaired free of charge.

That's all good and well in an idealist world. However, what if the consumer doesn't want to pay the $150 for the repair? Then you just had someone waste their time troubleshooting something that wasn't even their fault to begin with. Shouldn't it be their right to charge you for that time? If they don't return the PS3 to you because you refuse to pay for the repair or the amount of time they spent on troubleshooting something that was broken by a product they didn't license, then Sony would be accused of holding their PS3 hostage.
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post #111 of 162 Old 01-18-2007, 11:43 AM
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Exactamondo...Or in other words..USE this cable at your own risk..we dont know what it can or may do to your Playstation, and WE wont be held accountable...we would Much rather have Sony pay for any damages our product might cause to your PS... Good luck, Game ON!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ppshooky View Post

Does the warranty card that comes with the cable say something like the following?



That was taken directly from the user's guide for Mad Catz's composite cables for the PS3.

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post #112 of 162 Old 01-18-2007, 11:48 AM
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Nintendo's Wii warranty says:

Quote:


THIS WARRANTY SHALL NOT APPLY IF THIS PRODUCT: (a) IS USED WITH PRODUCTS NOT SOLD OR LICENSED BY NINTENDO (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, NON-LICENSED GAME ENHANCEMENT AND COPIER DEVICES, ADAPTERS, AND POWER SUPPLIES); (b) IS USED FOR COMMERCIAL PURPOSES (INCLUDING RENTAL); (c) IS MODIFIED OR TAMPERED WITH; (d) IS DAMAGED BY NEGLIGENCE, ACCIDENT, UNREASONABLE USE, OR BY OTHER CAUSES UNRELATED TO DEFECTIVE MATERIALS OR WORKMANSHIP; OR (e) HAS HAD THE SERIAL NUMBER ALTERED, DEFACED OR REMOVED.

(from the Nintendo website, I just registered last week and haven't made enough posts to provide a URL).

So all three (Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo) say the same thing and likely do the same thing. I certainly wouldn't cover damage to my product caused by an unlicensed third party add on. The only way for a manufacturer to get the proper A/V connector is to go through Sony or to buy a Chinese knock-off, which is never as high quality. I design consumer electronics for a living, so I know how this works.

As for the other ports, the USB, HDMI, SATA (Hard Drive), TOSLINK (Digital Audio) and memory card slots are all industry standard. It's still certainly possible for one of these devices to damage your system, but that's basically the same situation you are in with a PC or anything else. The PS3 warranty covers you from defects in the PS3 (the "defects in materials and workmanship" text in every warranty), not from damage done by another company's product.

I once had to get a motherboard replaced in a Dell laptop because of a short caused by a $20 mouse. If my company had not payed for premium coverage (like the GameStop/BestBuy/etc extended service plan you could get for your PS3) I'd have been out the $1000 for the new motherboard.
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post #113 of 162 Old 01-18-2007, 11:50 AM
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Quote:

So is this the only cable officially licensed by Sony? The rest of the cables like Madcatz and Monster offer a disclaimer saying that the product is not endorsed by Sony?
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post #114 of 162 Old 01-18-2007, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XFistsClenchedX View Post

The solution is simple. Sony should have taken the PS3 back and tested it, but informed him beforehand that if the technician that examines the console determines that the issue is the fault of unlicensed products then he would be charged the $150 repair fee. If it was determined that it was the fault of the console itself, then it would be repaired free of charge.

That's how my company handles similar situations.
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post #115 of 162 Old 01-18-2007, 11:53 AM
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Very good first post!! Welcome.. No fan boy crap, just plain and simple facts, looked at with an open mind. We need more of you, and less of the Fanboys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hnofclbri View Post

As for the other ports, the USB, HDMI, SATA (Hard Drive), TOSLINK (Digital Audio) and memory card slots are all industry standard. It's still certainly possible for one of these devices to damage your system, but that's basically the same situation you are in with a PC or anything else. The PS3 warranty covers you from defects in the PS3 (the "defects in materials and workmanship" text in every warranty), not from damage done by another company's product.

I once had to get a motherboard replaced in a Dell laptop because of a short caused by a $20 mouse. If my company had not payed for premium coverage (like the GameStop/BestBuy/etc extended service plan you could get for your PS3) I'd have been out the $1000 for the new motherboard.

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post #116 of 162 Old 01-18-2007, 11:56 AM
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lesson learned
always lie to customer service people when they ask "did you use our sccessories or a 3rd parties?" (or something like that)

the fact that they ask is clue enough to say "every product I use in conjunction with my PS3 is made or licensed by Sony."
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post #117 of 162 Old 01-18-2007, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndskyz View Post

Its not the cable its the connector.. A connector that is a Sony propritary design. Why can people understand that and STOP mixing and matching it with Industry standards. And the kicker to all this is... The Aftermarket cables the OP posted cost about 3 times as much as the Sony originals...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16879100014

yeah thats the stupid thing. the cables i have are a high density and have gold plated tips etc. but the only reason i bought it was because thats the only one best buy had at the time. and i didnt pay that much for them. i guess with the ps3 out, they jack up the prices or something. dunno.

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post #118 of 162 Old 01-18-2007, 12:12 PM
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Gold plated tips and high density does not mean that there couldn't have been a short in the cable itself.

Since it all gets connected into one A/V plug, you don't know how well things are insulated in there.
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post #119 of 162 Old 01-18-2007, 12:43 PM
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There is no possible way that a short inside of the cable could possibly damage anything.

If that were the case, merely banging the ends of the cable together would kill the system.
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post #120 of 162 Old 01-18-2007, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by FourDoor View Post

So is this the only cable officially licensed by Sony? The rest of the cables like Madcatz and Monster offer a disclaimer saying that the product is not endorsed by Sony?


no that's an example of the official cable made by sony themselves. it retails for $25 but during the holidays i saw them in places like toys r us for as low as $15.

monster makes officially licensed cables as well, as do a number of other companies (like mad catz). i'm not going to list them as i'm too lazy to research it. you would just need to check the product packaging. officially licensed products say so clearly on the box and have a holographic sony playstation logo sticker. it's not hard.

unlicensed stuff usually won't say anything on the box about that fact. there's a fairly popular accessory line for the ps3 from a company called blaze that comes to mind. they're not officially licensed and say nothing on the box. psyclone either, as the op discovered. look for the holographic logo and you're good.

now for some personal opinion here. sony's policies aside, i would personally take sony's stock component cables @$15-$25 over pretty much anything else on the market. the same can be said for microsoft's cables for the 360. i believe nobody knows their systems better than the manufacturers, and they therefore put out the best cables for their systems. they maintain qc and must have strict manufacturing standards to comply with the system specs. it's mostly psychological, i know, but i still feel better...
if you're looking to spend more money, the monster cables are a very nice upgrade, though are largely just flashier versions of the stock cable...

buy something like this:

http://www.mod-chip.com/en/ps2_component_cable.php


and who knows what the hell you're getting. it could have been made by some kid in a garage...its entirely possible that there could be something wrong with nonsense cables like this that could cause a problem with a console...

again, i agree in principle with what sony is doing. my problem is with their execution...

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