Optical (Dolby Digital) vs HDMI (TrueHD) Sound - Page 6 - AVS Forum
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post #151 of 171 Old 01-04-2008, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

I understand your question, but I don't understand why you would want to do this. It won't sound any better. In fact, you may even get more "noise" than just a straight-forward analog signal. Why not just go analog to analog? Isn't that much simpler and cheaper?

If your worry is 5.1, just buy a cheap receiver with an optical input and 5.1.

Sorry I wasn't more clear. I have a Denon receiver capable of DD/DTS 5.1 over optical, which I currently use. But I would like to be able to utilize loseless multichannel audio from the PS3 (my receiver does not have any HDMI inputs). So I would like a device that takes the loseless HDMI audio from the PS3 and converts it for the analog 6 channel inputs on my receiver to get full uncompressed PCM/TrueHD/etc.
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post #152 of 171 Old 01-04-2008, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan_P View Post

Sorry I wasn't more clear. I have a Denon receiver capable of DD/DTS 5.1 over optical, which I currently use. But I would like to be able to utilize loseless multichannel audio from the PS3 (my receiver does not have any HDMI inputs). So I would like a device that takes the loseless HDMI audio from the PS3 and converts it for the analog 6 channel inputs on my receiver to get full uncompressed PCM/TrueHD/etc.

First, it's not "uncompressed." It's lossless, but it's still compressed.

Second, no can do. At some stage (even with some sort of HDMI -> analog conversion), you're going to be trying to send that high bandwidth signal through analog cables. It won't happen. That's the whole point of HDMI (despite what many think, it's not just a marketing move forcing us to buy more stuff). It has a much higher bandwidth for things like lossless audio.

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post #153 of 171 Old 01-04-2008, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

First, it's not "uncompressed." It's lossless, but it's still compressed.

Second, no can do. At some stage (even with some sort of HDMI -> analog conversion), you're going to be trying to send that high bandwidth signal through analog cables. It won't happen. That's the whole point of HDMI (despite what many think, it's not just a marketing move forcing us to buy more stuff). It has a much higher bandwidth for things like lossless audio.

Well, if it can't be done, what is the point of players that have 5.1 channel outputs like the following:

http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/sc/32331243-2-440-DT1.gif

I mean, isn't the whole point that you get high resolution audio without the HDMI connectors? Obviously it would require a good DAC, but I don't see any reason it couldn't be done.
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post #154 of 171 Old 01-04-2008, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan_P View Post

Well, if it can't be done, what is the point of players that have 5.1 channel outputs like the following:

http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/sc/32331243-2-440-DT1.gif

I mean, isn't the whole point that you get high resolution audio without the HDMI connectors? Obviously it would require a good DAC, but I don't see any reason it couldn't be done.

Ok, so you can send TrueHD over analog, but the bigger issue is what to do with the signal format. You'd need to be able to decode those lossless formats. I don't think you can simply convert digital to audio and be done with it.

You wouldn't just need a DAC, but also some way to decode the signal to a format your AVR would be happy with. In order to do this, you'd essentially be piecing together your own receiver, but in pieces and without the handy case they all come in. It'd be damn ugly and unnecessarily expensive.

I believe that some blu-ray players are equipped with analog outputs for TrueHD, so that might be an easy solution. Anyway, if this is something you really want, you're far better off just getting a cheap AVR that can handle audio via HDMI and the lossless formats you want.

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post #155 of 171 Old 01-04-2008, 01:20 PM
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Yeah, you're right, but it sure would be nice if someone would come out with a cheap box to do it. It could be a little easier than you say because the PS3 can decode those formats on board and output multichannel PCM, so you'd only need to convert that into a multichannel analog output. Not that I have any idea how that is done.

But yeah, I'll probably get a new receiver in a year or two after I'm done upgrading my speakers.
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post #156 of 171 Old 01-06-2008, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T0Y0 View Post

shure..???
When I set up my PS3 and set the audio settings I chose -> optical audio output -> I always check every box (PCM, DD, DD5.1 etc..).
But when I play a BlueRay movie (300/spiderman/CasinoRoyale) and use the DolbyTrueHD English audio option the sound is really perfect!!
Now testing if SACD play's audio through Optical-Cable.

From what I know and understand. You are not and can get TrueHD over optical. It wont pass it. Be in not capable or copy protected I dont know. I had optical in the past and experimented with it. something is missing in the audio. Its not as full and crisp as HDMI and analog connections. Optical was much louder! But the HDMI an analog you could hear things you didnt hear with the optical.

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post #157 of 171 Old 01-08-2008, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by T0Y0 View Post

... when I play a BlueRay movie (300/spiderman/CasinoRoyale) and use the DolbyTrueHD English audio option the sound is really perfect!!

what you are hearing is not Dolby TrueHD. through an optical cable your PS3 is sending one of two things:

- 2.0 channel PCM
- lossy 5.1 channel bitstream

if you are hearing audio from all six speakers of your 5.1 setup it means one of two things:

- your receiver is converting the 2.0 channel PCM into multi-channel audio
- your receiver decodes the lossy 5.1 bitstream accordingly.
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post #158 of 171 Old 01-09-2008, 12:57 PM
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haven't any of you noticed sometimes HUGE differences in sound pressure/leve between the two connections (optical vs hdmi ) ?

i find often the optical connections even though it only passes up to DTS 1.5mb/s
to give higher or much higher sound pressure. as if through the hdmi connectivity, the sound mix encoded was "toned down". and that is with the players properly set up (dynamic compression off, etc)

and there's also the issue of some hddvd orbray encoded lower in levels than their dvd brothers (TRANSFORMER region 3 trounces the HD DVD for instance)

Houston we HAVE a problem
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post #159 of 171 Old 01-10-2008, 01:10 AM
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Got a quick question. I have my Setup as followed:
PS3>TV via HDMI
PS3>Reciever via Digital Optical(Since it has no HDMI)
TV>Reciever via RCA(Red and White...Don't know why)

Should I just take out the RCA cables and place my TV to Reciever via Optical(Since it can) and would it make it sound better or leave my settings as is and hopefully get another reciever with HDMI...later?

I'm trying to get best audio without any lossess.
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post #160 of 171 Old 01-26-2008, 07:57 PM
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Hello,

My apologies if this is asked elsewhere or I'm in the wrong thread, but it looks like where I would like to get a question answered.

I have a Samsung HL-6187 TV with HDMI running from my Cable box (Motorola 6412 I believe). I'm trying to connect the TV's optical audio out to the optical port on my old RCA Dolby 5.1 receiver. When I do this I can't get a fully digital signal on the receiver. However, when I run the optical cable from the cable box's optical out port to the receiver I can.

I'm trying to figure out why this isn't working because I can do this with standard RCA cables, but not the optical one. It wouldn't be a huge deal to run it from the cable box but I know my wife will not like having to change the receiver to get to other things like the Wii.

I would greatly appreciate any help someone could provide.
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post #161 of 171 Old 01-31-2008, 12:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davescharf View Post

Hello,

My apologies if this is asked elsewhere or I'm in the wrong thread, but it looks like where I would like to get a question answered.

I have a Samsung HL-6187 TV with HDMI running from my Cable box (Motorola 6412 I believe). I'm trying to connect the TV's optical audio out to the optical port on my old RCA Dolby 5.1 receiver. When I do this I can't get a fully digital signal on the receiver. However, when I run the optical cable from the cable box's optical out port to the receiver I can.

I'm trying to figure out why this isn't working because I can do this with standard RCA cables, but not the optical one. It wouldn't be a huge deal to run it from the cable box but I know my wife will not like having to change the receiver to get to other things like the Wii.

I would greatly appreciate any help someone could provide.

The optical out from the TV converts everything back to 2 ch audio. That's why you are not getting full audio from your receiver. I believe this has to do with the copyrighted issue. Therefore, you have to run the hdmi from your stb to the TV and the optical from the stb to the receiver. Hope that helps.
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post #162 of 171 Old 01-31-2008, 12:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DasaniBlak View Post

Got a quick question. I have my Setup as followed:
PS3>TV via HDMI
PS3>Reciever via Digital Optical(Since it has no HDMI)
TV>Reciever via RCA(Red and White...Don't know why)

Should I just take out the RCA cables and place my TV to Reciever via Optical(Since it can) and would it make it sound better or leave my settings as is and hopefully get another reciever with HDMI...later?

I'm trying to get best audio without any lossess.

Why are you running RCA from the TV to the receiver? I don't understand the need for this. HDMI to the TV with optical to the receiver should be fine. Do you not have a stb? Are you just using OTA feed?
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post #163 of 171 Old 01-31-2008, 05:04 AM
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Do a search over in the Blu-ray forum for the Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds concert Blu-ray and you'll read what a difference HD Sound makes.
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post #164 of 171 Old 01-31-2008, 10:26 AM
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Yes that does help. Thank you for the explanation. It's frustrating, but at least I have a way to do it.
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post #165 of 171 Old 01-31-2008, 12:04 PM
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Is there any reason Sony can't develop cables for analog multichannel audio that output from the multi/av port? That port is capable of passing audio we know becuase it outputs analog, s-video and componentw/ analog 2 channel. Why can't the ps3 route the linear multichannel anaolg signals out thru that port if the hdmi port is being used for the video signal?

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post #166 of 171 Old 01-31-2008, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schnurmac View Post

You are not and can get TrueHD over optical.

Right. TOSLink transceivers can't get above 1.5Mb/sec throughput.
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post #167 of 171 Old 06-14-2008, 05:53 AM
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I am now moving into the great new world. I'm installing a Sony STR-DA5300ES receiver, a Samsung 46" LCD (750 class), and a Blu-Ray Player. I have a Tivo box with 1.3 HDMI output.
Two techies from the local cable company tell me that I should just use the HDMI cables for the video and optical for the sound. They claim that the optical will do a better job and, of course, would be free from RF interference.
I have a 5.1 speaker set up, and unless I move, that won't change. The nature of the room would not allow for 7.1 in any rational way.
The receiver certainly has enough optical inputs to allow me to do this, but, is it worth doing?
I have had RF interference in my office which is above the room with the equipment mentioned. It was so severe that I had to get a new wireless phone system and a shielded USB cable for one of my printers.
Based on what I've seen in this thread I'll probably get answers from both sides, but that's OK.
Thanks.
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post #168 of 171 Old 12-24-2008, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by instantpop View Post

Ok, I'm a little lost with all the new HDMI stuff (at least it's new to me). I've got a PS3 hooked up to a Pioneer 5070 plasma via HDMI and I currently run all my audio via optical to my kind of dated RCA theater in a box system. If I want to upgrade, what should I be looking for? I want to go to 7.1, but I'm confused about using multiple HDMI connections. How would I get audio to the receiver and video to the display via HDMI if there's only one HDMI out on the PS3?

Forgive me if this is a basic question, but like I said, I'm new

I have the same setup and the same problem. It's my understanding that optical can't output 7.1, only 5.1. So if I only use the HDMI for audio and video through the receiver will the 1080p video be affected? Is it really better to have the HDMI directly plugged into the TV from the ps3?

Also in terms of audio you want supported in the ps3's settings, do you only check off Dolby and DTS?

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post #169 of 171 Old 12-24-2008, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scruffy Nemesis View Post

I have the same setup and the same problem. It's my understanding that optical can't output 7.1, only 5.1. So if I only use the HDMI for audio and video through the receiver will the 1080p video be affected? Is it really better to have the HDMI directly plugged into the TV from the ps3?

Also in terms of audio you want supported in the ps3's settings, do you only check off Dolby and DTS?

If there is any video degradation from going HDMI to the receiver first (which I seriously doubt because it is a digital signal that unless is processed along the way it will be the same digital signal) then it would be a negligible treade off to get HD sound. Some people argue that TruHD sounds soft, but in actuality if you turn it up loud enough where the dialogue is a good comfortable volume, then the action sequences will blow you away.

So IMO, it is not better to plug the HDMI directly into the TV.

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post #170 of 171 Old 12-24-2008, 04:27 PM
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to me it seems the worst thing you may have to deal with is the audio/video sync issue you could get from a long run from the av receiver to the tv since the audio is processed long before the video is processed. This is usually only an issue on long runs.

There are more pro's than con's for running HDMI through the RX than to the TV....I agree

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post #171 of 171 Old 12-24-2008, 07:41 PM
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In setting up my new HD set, receiver, etc. I solved a problem and it may help some of the other issues mentioned here.
For a lot of TV, surround sound is not required. The News programs are the obvious example. I bought a powered HDMI splitter. I run an HDMI cable from the Tivo to the splitter. One cable goes directly to the TV, the other to the receiver. The receiver runs an HDMI cable to the TV. If I don't need surround sound I leave the receiver off. If I need surround I set the TV volume to 0 and get the surround sound through the receiver. This works fine and saves electricity.
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