Bitstream vs. Linear PCM - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 666 Old 05-24-2010, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serlenbeck View Post

Thanks,

I knew it was something stupid like that. I just replaced my Blu Ray laser for $52 on that ole' girl. Is spending $300 just to get your receiver to light up with the correct codec signatures a bad thing?

I wouldn't...especially if you just replaced the laser. There is no difference in sound quality - just a couple extra pixels lighting up on your receiver display.

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post #542 of 666 Old 05-24-2010, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serlenbeck View Post

Thanks,

I knew it was something stupid like that. I just replaced my Blu Ray laser for $52 on that ole' girl. Is spending $300 just to get your receiver to light up with the correct codec signatures a bad thing?

Hehehe... I like the slim (I went through two Phats). But, as long as your Phat is working... it won't make a difference.
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post #543 of 666 Old 05-24-2010, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serlenbeck View Post

Thanks,

I knew it was something stupid like that. I just replaced my Blu Ray laser for $52 on that ole' girl. Is spending $300 just to get your receiver to light up with the correct codec signatures a bad thing?

Pretty stupid esp. considering that your still using the same DAC in your AVR.

+ the PS3 will still decode games to Linear PCM
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post #544 of 666 Old 05-25-2010, 08:43 AM
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for the comments about HD audio vs DD, I think you do actually need a quality speaker to be able to discern the differences...

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post #545 of 666 Old 05-25-2010, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caper_1 View Post

for the comments about HD audio vs DD, I think you do actually need a quality speaker to be able to discern the differences...

Agreed.

Lord knows that I have tried to hear a difference, with many many blu-rays, and I just cannot.

I read an article somewhere online where It compared Lossy DD/DTS on DvDs vs. lossless codecs, such as DD-THD and DTS HD MA, and the results were the slightest audible difference. Then, the same test was done using the DD/DTS core track on blu ray discs, vs. the lossless codecs on the same blu-ray disc, and the difference was not really audible to the majority of the testers.

The core track created from the HD codecs, like DTS @ 1.5 are better quality then yesterdays DD/DTS lossy?

Mix that theory in with a lower-end system, and I can see why there is a debate about the real audible advantages in some cases.

I will continue to output LPCM with my ps3 decoding the HD codecs though. I am just finding that the lossy codecs are done so well, that its nearly impossible for me personally, to tell any difference at all.

I sometimes hear people comparing lossy vs. lossless to a 128kbps mp3 vs Cd audio .wav files. I think that is an extremely over exaggerated comparison.

Keep in mind I am talking about budget audio setups in a living room.

I am sure with a nice home theater, and a very expensive receiver and speakers, it would be easier to hear a difference, but even then, I would imagine it would be very small.
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post #546 of 666 Old 05-26-2010, 09:48 PM
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Once again... I will have to disagree. Although more expensive speakers will clearly allow you to appreciate TrueHD and DTS-HD/MA to the fullest, even with cheaper speaker (such as the SS370) you should be able to appreciate the dynamic range offered by these tracks over DD 5.1. Of course, the source material is important even in an expensive system. Good reference movies with amazing HD soundtracks are Star Trek (True-HD), Spider-Man 3 (LPCM), and Avatar.
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post #547 of 666 Old 05-29-2010, 07:44 PM
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thats the reason to upgrade, my hk avr 247 is set to 7.1 pcm because 3 yrs ago they didnt have all the dts master audio formats when my receiver came out even true hd formats. my question is will the pcm 7.1 in the older receiver still decode all the audio formats, my recent update in 2008 to my receiver had the 1.3a hdmi update, and allowed pcm 7.1 to decode better.
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post #548 of 666 Old 06-04-2010, 06:48 PM
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Can someone please tell me what the better option is here? I'll explain my situation.

I have a slim PS3 outputting optical audio to my receiver, my receiver is an older one so it doesn't have any HDMI ports and can't decode the new codecs.. and I only have 2 speakers.

When I'm watching a Blu-Ray should I be setting the PS3 to bitstream and let it feed my receiver the fallback lossy DTS/Dolby Digital tracks or should I set it to Linear PCM where the PS3 can decode the DTS HD MA/Dolby True HD codecs internally and send it to my receiver as Linear PCM? I understand optical only has bandwidth for two channel PCM.. and I only have two speakers, so i'm guessing choosing Linear PCM and letting the PS3 decode the lossless tracks would be better instead of bitstreaming the lossy tracks? I just want to make sure because I'm really not sure and I want the best audio possible when I'm watching my movies.
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post #549 of 666 Old 06-04-2010, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKI View Post

Can someone please tell me what the better option is here? I'll explain my situation.

I have a slim PS3 outputting optical audio to my receiver, my receiver is an older one so it doesn't have any HDMI ports and can't decode the new codecs.. and I only have 2 speakers.

When I'm watching a Blu-Ray should I be setting the PS3 to bitstream and let it feed my receiver the fallback lossy DTS/Dolby Digital tracks or should I set it to Linear PCM where the PS3 can decode the DTS HD MA/Dolby True HD codecs internally and send it to my receiver as Linear PCM? I understand optical only has bandwidth for two channel PCM.. and I only have two speakers, so i'm guessing choosing Linear PCM and letting the PS3 decode the lossless tracks would be better instead of bitstreaming the lossy tracks? I just want to make sure because I'm really not sure and I want the best audio possible when I'm watching my movies.

IMO, it does not matter much on a 2 speaker setting. But if you are going to do 2 channel anyway, maybe let the PS3 do the decoding. You can, of course, play with it yourself and let your ear decide.
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post #550 of 666 Old 06-19-2010, 08:55 AM
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I have a Ps3 Slim and a brand new Denon 791 - When I set to bitstream, the truehd lights up on Star Trek, but it warns me that portions of the soundtrack may not be played. When I set to pcm it sets it to multi channel in (no truehd light).

With the PCM setting am I getting trueHD even though it doesn't light up? Am I really losing data with Bitstream? Where should it be set? I admit, like others, I much prefer seeing the light that says TrueHD.

Thanks!
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post #551 of 666 Old 06-19-2010, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miked2023 View Post

I have a Ps3 Slim and a brand new Denon 791 - When I set to bitstream, the truehd lights up on Star Trek, but it warns me that portions of the soundtrack may not be played. When I set to pcm it sets it to multi channel in (no truehd light).

With the PCM setting am I getting trueHD even though it doesn't light up? Am I really losing data with Bitstream? Where should it be set? I admit, like others, I much prefer seeing the light that says TrueHD.

Thanks!

you aren't gonna be losing any data.. that warning is for people who use an optical cable and not an HDMI cable, you lose the menu sounds on most Blu-Rays if you're using optical output, you'll also be losing the TrueHD/DTS MA audio of course since optical doesn't have enough bandwidth for that so it'll default to the lossy tracks.
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post #552 of 666 Old 06-30-2010, 03:53 AM
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Sorry if someone has already answered this but here's my question. I have a fat ps 3 and a 7.1 setup. When I use LPCM to hear lossless blu ray soundtracks, the sound is significantly lower than when I bitstream the lossy track to my AVR. Is this normal or can it be fixed by making sure the speakers are volume matched.
PS, I know that "louder" doesnt mean better, but like I said the difference is so great that the dynamic range on the PCM seems muted and is unimpressive.
I also tested lossy sound over bitstream and PCM and i had to go bitstream there too. I played the terminator 2 on blu ray (dts ex 6.1) and the opening scene (which is top notch for testing out LFE) sounded like it was on 2 ch stereo over PCM. Anyway any help is appreciated.
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post #553 of 666 Old 06-30-2010, 08:17 AM
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It's covered in this thread. It's normal, and does not affect sound quality. Turn up the volume.
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post #554 of 666 Old 07-10-2010, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redwolf4k View Post

Agreed.

Lord knows that I have tried to hear a difference, with many many blu-rays, and I just cannot.

I read an article somewhere online where It compared Lossy DD/DTS on DvDs vs. lossless codecs, such as DD-THD and DTS HD MA, and the results were the slightest audible difference. Then, the same test was done using the DD/DTS core track on blu ray discs, vs. the lossless codecs on the same blu-ray disc, and the difference was not really audible to the majority of the testers.

The core track created from the HD codecs, like DTS @ 1.5 are better quality then yesterdays DD/DTS lossy?

Mix that theory in with a lower-end system, and I can see why there is a debate about the real audible advantages in some cases.

I will continue to output LPCM with my ps3 decoding the HD codecs though. I am just finding that the lossy codecs are done so well, that its nearly impossible for me personally, to tell any difference at all.

I sometimes hear people comparing lossy vs. lossless to a 128kbps mp3 vs Cd audio .wav files. I think that is an extremely over exaggerated comparison.

Keep in mind I am talking about budget audio setups in a living room.

I am sure with a nice home theater, and a very expensive receiver and speakers, it would be easier to hear a difference, but even then, I would imagine it would be very small.

you can hear and feel the difference between Dolby digital and Dolby True-HD, same goes for DTS-MA, there is more detail more spaciousness and a cleaner more linear sound comming from the speakers in the True-HD and DTS-MA formats. And the PS3 does decode DTS-MA.
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post #555 of 666 Old 07-10-2010, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sornom View Post

Sorry if someone has already answered this but here's my question. I have a fat ps 3 and a 7.1 setup. When I use LPCM to hear lossless blu ray soundtracks, the sound is significantly lower than when I bitstream the lossy track to my AVR. Is this normal or can it be fixed by making sure the speakers are volume matched.
PS, I know that "louder" doesnt mean better, but like I said the difference is so great that the dynamic range on the PCM seems muted and is unimpressive.
I also tested lossy sound over bitstream and PCM and i had to go bitstream there too. I played the terminator 2 on blu ray (dts ex 6.1) and the opening scene (which is top notch for testing out LFE) sounded like it was on 2 ch stereo over PCM. Anyway any help is appreciated.

LPCM decoding in the PS3 sounds the same as if it where decodet as Bitstrream in your AVR, only thing is you won't get the DTS-MA or Dolby-trueHD letters to display on your receivers panel, but it will show that the sound is going through as PCM "which is lossless" and the same as the two formats mentioned above, in regards to the volume, just turn it up 2 notches and it is the same as your receiver compressing the audio codecs, I have tried it with my Panasonic BDP-60 which can pass the signal in Bit-stream so the receiver can do all the decoding and the PS3 which decodes the signals internally in PCM, sound is the same, as both are doing the same thing.
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post #556 of 666 Old 07-15-2010, 10:41 AM
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From the Samsung Site:

Blu-ray Disc Players : What's The Difference Between Onboard Decoding And Bitstream Pass-through, And Which One Should I Use?

Although Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio aren’t compressed in the same way that the original Dolby Digital and DTS formats are, they still reside on your Blu-ray disc in condensed form—a stream of bits, or bitstream, that has to be decoded properly before it can be amplified and sent to your speakers. “Bitstream pass-through,” as it's often called, means that your Blu-ray player delivers that unaltered data to your receiver or surround sound processor, which then does al the necessary decoding and digital-to-analog conversion itself. This requires that your player and receiver/processor both be equipped with HDMI 1.3 connections, and that your receiver/processor is capable of doing the decoding.

If your receiver isn’t capable of such decoding, your Blu-ray player may be able decode these formats itself, “onboard” in other words, and deliver the resulting audio—usually as PCM audio—to your receiver/processor via an HDMI 1.1 or above port, or via 5.1 channel analog audio connections.

Which method you should use depends of course on what sort of gear you have or plan to purchase. Actually, though, even if your system is capable of either form of decoding, the answer isn’t quite cut and dry. Each method has its advantages and disadvantages. Bitstream pass-through to a high-quality receiver or processor generally means that you’re going to get better quality audio and more control over parameters like bass management. But this method will keep you from hearing some of the audio features on new Blu-ray discs with picture-in-picture and sound-mixing bonus features. Conversely, onboard decoding will allow you hear such features, but most Blu-ray players don’t feature onboard decoding of DTS-HD Master Audio.
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post #557 of 666 Old 11-16-2010, 01:24 PM
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I was wondering if someone could answer my curiosity. I have an Onyko HT-S3300 hooked up to my slim PS3 via HDMI.

I have the PS3 set to Linear PCM, not bitstream. Everything is great and my receiver shows PCM (multi-channel) and I watched Toy Story 3 in DTS-HD MA, fabulous.

My curious question is, how come even though I select Linear PCM as the output, the check boxes in the audio setting menu are still available for Dolby 5.1, DD, etc? Of course all is well and I get audio out via PCM, but you'd think the check boxes for Dolby 5.1, DD, etc would be unselectable when PCM is chosen.
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post #558 of 666 Old 11-16-2010, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supastar1568 View Post

My curious question is, how come even though I select Linear PCM as the output, the check boxes in the audio setting menu are still available for Dolby 5.1, DD, etc? Of course all is well and I get audio out via PCM, but you'd think the check boxes for Dolby 5.1, DD, etc would be unselectable when PCM is chosen.

Not all games output as LPCM. Selecting the LPCM output option on your PS3 only affects DVDs/BDs.

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post #559 of 666 Old 11-16-2010, 04:22 PM
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OK... I shouldn't read these threads because I always get confused. Just want to confirm my settings are optimal.

I have my fat PS3 hooked up to an Onkyo SR805 via HDMI. I have my audio output on the PS3 set to LPCM.

Is this how I should have it setup?

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post #560 of 666 Old 11-16-2010, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by anonymouscuban View Post
Is this how I should have it setup?
Probably. And unless you have a specific issue you've noticed or some weird setup you're going for, you shouldn't really have to mess too much with the PS3's auto-detected audio settings. Most audio setup issues lie elsewhere.

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post #561 of 666 Old 11-16-2010, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post
Probably. And unless you have a specific issue you've noticed or some weird setup you're going for, you shouldn't really have to mess too much with the PS3's auto-detected audio settings. Most audio setup issues lie elsewhere.
Thanks. No issues that I have noticed.

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post #562 of 666 Old 11-16-2010, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post
Not all games output as LPCM. Selecting the LPCM output option on your PS3 only affects DVDs/BDs.
Ohhh ok. Thanks. The "auto" setting checks everything, so I'll leave it at that.

I'm guessing if I were to uncheck the Dolby 5.1, Dolby Digital, etc and had a game in DD I'd get no sound.
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post #563 of 666 Old 11-26-2010, 07:34 AM
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I've read through these postings and I have a similar issue. I was watching Avatar on Blue Ray
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post #564 of 666 Old 11-29-2010, 11:40 AM
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I will be adding a ps3 to my hometheater/106" projection setup. It has all the power in the world with my IB an 7.1 setup but the reciever is an older THX Select 2 Pioneer with digital or optical inputs for sound only. I believe I won't be able to enjoy lossless/the upper end of the spectrum surround until I upgrade the reciever but in the mean time what setting will give me the best sound playback? If one is quiter than the other this is not a problem given I have more than enough power for my environment especially in the lower octaves. Thanks

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post #565 of 666 Old 12-15-2010, 11:14 PM
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I too, am a bit more confused by reading all of these different suggestions. I'm a video guy, so forgive me.

Here's what I am running into. I would appreciate any clarity you can provide.
When playing back DTS MA audio out of my Panasonic 3D Blu-ray Player (set to Bitstream output), my Pioneer receiver displays DTS MASTER.
When I do the same thing with the same disc on my PS3 (set to Bitstream output), all it shows it DTS, and I can definitely tell a difference with my Martin Logan setup.
Everything I am reading says that the PS3 supports the new audio formats. The only difference besides the players are the fact that I'm running HDMI 1.4 off the Panasonic and HDMI 1.3 off the PS3. Is there another setting I am missing on the PS3, or maybe something else I should look for that I am missing?

Thanks in advance.
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post #566 of 666 Old 12-16-2010, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrodschockow View Post

I too, am a bit more confused by reading all of these different suggestions. I'm a video guy, so forgive me.

Here's what I am running into. I would appreciate any clarity you can provide.
When playing back DTS MA audio out of my Panasonic 3D Blu-ray Player (set to Bitstream output), my Pioneer receiver displays DTS MASTER.
When I do the same thing with the same disc on my PS3 (set to Bitstream output), all it shows it DTS, and I can definitely tell a difference with my Martin Logan setup.
Everything I am reading says that the PS3 supports the new audio formats. The only difference besides the players are the fact that I'm running HDMI 1.4 off the Panasonic and HDMI 1.3 off the PS3. Is there another setting I am missing on the PS3, or maybe something else I should look for that I am missing?

Thanks in advance.

Do you have the newer slim-PS3 or the "fat" one? If you have the fat one you must use HDMI to get the HD audio from the PS3 though it will show MULTI-CH on your receiver since the PS3 does the decoding.

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post #567 of 666 Old 12-16-2010, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wryker View Post

Do you have the newer slim-PS3 or the "fat" one? If you have the fat one you must use HDMI to get the HD audio from the PS3 though it will show MULTI-CH on your receiver since the PS3 does the decoding.

Adding to that you need to set the Fat PS3 to PCM, NOT bit-stream. It should say MULTI on your AVR. If you bring up the menu while watching a BR movie, you can scroll over to the middle, far right option and it will tell you the Video and Audio info being sent out.

The Slim can output bit-stream for the AVR to decode. I am betting you have the older type PS3.

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post #568 of 666 Old 12-16-2010, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wryker View Post

Do you have the newer slim-PS3 or the "fat" one? If you have the fat one you must use HDMI to get the HD audio from the PS3 though it will show MULTI-CH on your receiver since the PS3 does the decoding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyrnes View Post

Adding to that you need to set the Fat PS3 to PCM, NOT bit-stream. It should say MULTI on your AVR. If you bring up the menu while watching a BR movie, you can scroll over to the middle, far right option and it will tell you the Video and Audio info being sent out.

The Slim can output bit-stream for the AVR to decode. I am betting you have the older type PS3.

To add further to these replies, if you're playing a 3D blu-ray, then DTS-HD Master Audio cannot be output from the PS3 while playing 3D. The PS3 will output DTS instead. This is a limitation of the PS3's 3D capability and is mentioned on the 3.50 firmware upgrade webpage.

Note, the same goes for Dolby. The PS3 will output Dolby Digital 5.1, instead of Dolby TrueHD while playing 3D blu-rays.
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post #569 of 666 Old 12-16-2010, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by zervinb View Post

To add further to these replies, if you're playing a 3D blu-ray, then DTS-HD Master Audio cannot be output from the PS3 while playing 3D. The PS3 will output DTS instead. This is a limitation of the PS3's 3D capability and is mentioned on the 3.50 firmware upgrade webpage.

Note, the same goes for Dolby. The PS3 will output Dolby Digital 5.1, instead of Dolby TrueHD while playing 3D blu-rays.

Awesome! Thanks for the info. That makes since. And for the record, I do have an old, phat PS3.
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post #570 of 666 Old 01-01-2011, 10:44 AM
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HI guys,

I play Ps3 and I just both a Sony HT-SS370 surround sound system.
Which I should use to get the best performance?

Thanks?
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