Where did all the GBs go??? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 27 Old 02-06-2008, 07:23 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
bdwright77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,891
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I just installed a West Dig Scorpio in my PS3. The numbers I got were ridiculous. Check them out:

HDD capacity - 250 GB (advertised)
HDD capacity after install - 232 GB
Available space BEFORE restore - 205 GB
Available space AFTER restore - 190 GB

Why am I missing 28 GB? The system information shows it as 205/232 GB, but there is nothing on the hard drive at this point. I havent restored all my data.

At least, I should have closer to the 232 GB of free space, considering that there is nothing on the PS3. Any help???
bdwright77 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 27 Old 02-06-2008, 07:29 AM
AVS Special Member
 
kplex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,590
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Here's where the some of the initial space went - different ways of measuring a GB :

http://www.diskview.com/disk-size-discrepancy.htm
kplex is offline  
post #3 of 27 Old 02-06-2008, 07:35 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
bdwright77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,891
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by kplex View Post

Here's where the some of the initial space went - different ways of measuring a GB :

http://www.diskview.com/disk-size-discrepancy.htm

Thanks kplex...I certainly understand that. However, that surely cant account for 28GB of missing storage space. That would only explain why it says that I have 232 GB instead of 250 GB as advertised.

It doesnt explain why, with nothing on the PS3, I only have 205 GB of free space out of 232 GB.
bdwright77 is offline  
post #4 of 27 Old 02-06-2008, 08:00 AM
AVS Special Member
 
PJ_Rage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,388
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdwright77 View Post

Thanks kplex...I certainly understand that. However, that surely cant account for 28GB of missing storage space. That would only explain why it says that I have 232 GB instead of 250 GB as advertised.

It doesnt explain why, with nothing on the PS3, I only have 205 GB of free space out of 232 GB.

I would say that is just how much the OS and stuff takes up, but it doesn't do that on my 60gb ?

SXRD/Oppo/Yamaha/Klipsch
PS3/PSN: pj_rage
360/Live: pjrage82

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daekwan
Dude please, your list of toys is so long its like Santa is your dad lol.
PJ_Rage is offline  
post #5 of 27 Old 02-06-2008, 08:01 AM
AVS Special Member
 
kplex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,590
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Just guessing here, but probably the operating system on a PS3 allocates a swap file like Windows or a swap partition like Linux for virtual memory storage.
kplex is offline  
post #6 of 27 Old 02-06-2008, 08:17 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
bdwright77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,891
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by kplex View Post

Just guessing here, but probably the operating system on a PS3 allocates a swap file like Windows or a swap partition like Linux for virtual memory storage.

If I do a full format restore, instead of the quick format restore, will that delete any unnecessary partitions?

Seriously, how the heck can I get back all that storage space? This is pretty frustrating.
bdwright77 is offline  
post #7 of 27 Old 02-06-2008, 08:22 AM
AVS Special Member
 
bdoyledimou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Markham, Ont
Posts: 1,148
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
question.. what are you restoring if there is nothing on your ps3?

PSN: Wrassle
360: Burnt of Wrassl
bdoyledimou is offline  
post #8 of 27 Old 02-06-2008, 08:23 AM
Senior Member
 
Gradthrawn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 366
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdwright77 View Post

If I do a full format restore, instead of the quick format restore, will that delete any unnecessary partitions?

Seriously, how the heck can I get back all that storage space? This is pretty frustrating.

As has been mentioned the file system accounts for some of the discrepancy in usable space you're seeing. However, the OS reserves a certain percentage, instead of a static amount, of the space for system/software (eg games) use only. You will never recover that space as long as the drive is used in the PS3.
Gradthrawn is offline  
post #9 of 27 Old 02-06-2008, 08:23 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Conspiracy*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Omaha, Ne
Posts: 2,216
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Someone has posted a formula on here showing where the space goes. The bigger the advertised drive the more space you lose in the format. Something about HDD companies advertise 1gb to be 1000mb to make even numbers like 250gb etc. This is untrue because 1gb = 1024mb meaning you're automatically losing 24mb per gb advertised. On a 250gb drive thats 6gb right there. I dont know if the bigger the drive the bigger the "buffer" it needs of clean space or what.

I dont know much else, other than its a fact of buying a bigger drive and you have to deal with it. Imagine how sad I felt when I bought a 4gb ipod and realized it only had 3.19gb of usable space.

"Damn, you can't get black levels like that on your projector!"
- My brother, just before he realized his LED display had died.

Link to my Basement build
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1529034/conspiracy-basement-build
Conspiracy* is offline  
post #10 of 27 Old 02-06-2008, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
bdwright77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,891
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdoyledimou View Post

question.. what are you restoring if there is nothing on your ps3?

I have backup data on an external HDD that I saved prior to upgrading the HDD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradthrawn View Post

As has been mentioned the file system accounts for some of the discrepancy in usable space you're seeing. However, the OS reserves a certain percentage, instead of a static amount, of the space for system/software (eg games) use only. You will never recover that space as long as the drive is used in the PS3.

I understand this. However, the OS did not take up this much space on the original HDD. Out of the advertised 60 GB HDD, 55 GB were available. Even if we account for different MB to GB conversions with the new drive and space for the OS, it would still not take up 28 GB of storage space.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conspiracy* View Post

Someone has posted a formula on here showing where the space goes. The bigger the advertised drive the more space you lose in the format. Something about HDD companies advertise 1gb to be 1000mb to make even numbers like 250gb etc. This is untrue because 1gb = 1024mb meaning you're automatically losing 24mb per gb advertised. On a 250gb drive thats 6gb right there. I dont know if the bigger the drive the bigger the "buffer" it needs of clean space or what.

I dont know much else, other than its a fact of buying a bigger drive and you have to deal with it. Imagine how sad I felt when I bought a 4gb ipod and realized it only had 3.19gb of usable space.

Thanks, but again, the discrepancies in conversion and space needed for the OS will still not account for losing all of the 28 GB. It is the conversion and OS that cause it to be limited to 232 GB instead of 250 GB. It does not account for there only being 205 GB available out of the 232 GB.
bdwright77 is offline  
post #11 of 27 Old 02-06-2008, 10:57 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Mr. Hanky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 6,068
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 31
There is the issue of cluster size in the formatting of the hdd. For a given cluster size setting (usually not something you get to set, but rather a consequence of the default disk format that is used), a larger harddrive will have to give up more space just for addressing.

Think about the days of FAT16. It uses a relatively small cluster size to index the total space on the disk. This was fine when hdd's where in the sub-1 GB range. However, you start to lose considerable capacity to the formatting as you go past 1 GB in disk size. So then came along FAT32 which used a larger cluster size to index a larger hdd. This was fine back in the days of 10 GB hdd's, and even served well in the 10's of GB size range. However, things are probably getting long in the tooth again now that we are past 100 GB's and closing on the TB range. So that is probably what is happening in your 250 GB hdd. The cluster size of the formatting is taking it's "10%" out of the total capacity, which on a 250 GB drive turns out to be a considerable amount of space that you will never get to use. It's probably not FAT32 in your ps3 hdd, but I'm guessing it is something that adapts the same cluster size as FAT32.

I need your sweet love, Rosetta Stone girl!
Mr. Hanky is offline  
post #12 of 27 Old 02-06-2008, 10:59 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ferrisg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Suburbs of Minneapolis
Posts: 2,522
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdwright77 View Post

not take up this much space on the original HDD. Out of the advertised 60 GB HDD, 55 GB were available. Even if we account for different MB to GB conversions with the new drive and space for the OS, it would still not take up 28 GB of storage space.

The OS doesn't take a static amount of drive space. If your example is accurate, it takes about 10% of the drive, which would account for the majority of the space being used that you're seeing. It may not even be a static percentage, but instead be based on the size of the drive. As Gradthrawn said, somewhere on AVS this was covered before with more detailed information on what percentage of the drive the OS uses. I remember seeing it, but I'd probably have a tough time finding it.
ferrisg is offline  
post #13 of 27 Old 02-06-2008, 11:01 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ferrisg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Suburbs of Minneapolis
Posts: 2,522
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hanky View Post

There is the issue of cluster size in the formatting of the hdd. For a given cluster size setting (usually not something you get to set, but rather a consequence of the default disk format that is used), a larger harddrive will have to give up more space just for addressing.

Think about the days of FAT16. It uses a relatively small cluster size to index the total space on the disk. This was fine when hdd's where in the sub-1 GB range. However, you start to lose considerable capacity to the formatting as you go past 1 GB in disk size. So then came along FAT32 which used a larger cluster size to index a larger hdd. This was fine back in the days of 10 GB hdd's, and even served well in the 10's of GB size range. However, things are probably getting long in the tooth again now that we are past 100 GB's and closing on the TB range. So that is probably what is happening in your 250 GB hdd. The cluster size of the formatting is taking it's "10%" out of the total capacity, which on a 250 GB drive turns out to be a considerable amount of space that you will never get to use. It's probably not FAT32 in your ps3 hdd, but I'm guessing it is something that adapts the same cluster size as FAT32.

The cluster size only affects wasted space due to small files. That is, if you have a cluster size of 4KB, then any file smaller than that will still require 4KB of disk space to be stored.

The "space lost to format" (which is an entirely inaccurate description) is solely due to the fact that hard drive makers report GB as GB, and OS developers report GiB as GB. When a hard drive is advertised as 1 GB, it is 1 GB. But an OS will tell you that it's 976 MB when it should be telling you it's 976 MiB.
ferrisg is offline  
post #14 of 27 Old 02-06-2008, 11:57 AM
Senior Member
 
MIAaron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 378
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdwright77 View Post

I understand this. However, the OS did not take up this much space on the original HDD. Out of the advertised 60 GB HDD, 55 GB were available. Even if we account for different MB to GB conversions with the new drive and space for the OS, it would still not take up 28 GB of storage space.

Did you look at your old hard drive? The '60gb' hard drive in my launch system was a 74gb or 75gb Seagate Momentus. Yet the hard drive in my 40gb was a 40gb hitachi travelstar. It showed up as 32gb left on the ps3. So the 40gb ps3 had 32gb of usable space, and the 60gb had 55gb of usable space but had a 75gb hard drive. So 205gb on a 250gb drive seems about right(approx. 20% reserved for OS).
MIAaron is offline  
post #15 of 27 Old 02-06-2008, 12:29 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
bdwright77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,891
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I appreciate all of your responses. The reasons above seem to present valid explanations to what I am experiencing.

I hadnt examined the original HDD to confirm if it was precisely 60 or rather the 75 GB as mentioned above. Nonetheless, I was not aware that the OS would take a percentage, rather than a fixed amount of space.

I guess i will have to stomach losing the 28 GB. Thanks for your help everyone, and sorry to cover a topic that appears to be a re-hash for most.
bdwright77 is offline  
post #16 of 27 Old 02-06-2008, 12:54 PM
AVS Special Member
 
DubBucket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,195
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIAaron View Post

Did you look at your old hard drive? The '60gb' hard drive in my launch system was a 74gb or 75gb Seagate Momentus. Yet the hard drive in my 40gb was a 40gb hitachi travelstar. It showed up as 32gb left on the ps3. So the 40gb ps3 had 32gb of usable space, and the 60gb had 55gb of usable space but had a 75gb hard drive. So 205gb on a 250gb drive seems about right(approx. 20% reserved for OS).

Huh, I didn't know that. That's awfully nice of them to pop in a 74GB drive and advertise as a 60G. I realize that they were probably trying to cover the OS footrprint that way, but usually they post the higher physical number. Another reason to be thankful for my 60gigger
DubBucket is offline  
post #17 of 27 Old 02-06-2008, 01:37 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ferrisg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Suburbs of Minneapolis
Posts: 2,522
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIAaron View Post

Did you look at your old hard drive? The '60gb' hard drive in my launch system was a 74gb or 75gb Seagate Momentus. Yet the hard drive in my 40gb was a 40gb hitachi travelstar. It showed up as 32gb left on the ps3. So the 40gb ps3 had 32gb of usable space, and the 60gb had 55gb of usable space but had a 75gb hard drive. So 205gb on a 250gb drive seems about right(approx. 20% reserved for OS).

There isn't a 75 GB 2.5" Seagate SATA drive (or any other brand that I'm aware of). How did you come to the conclusion that it's a 75 GB drive? There is an 80GB drive, but I think it's unlikely they would've used that in the 60GB system.
ferrisg is offline  
post #18 of 27 Old 02-06-2008, 02:16 PM
Advanced Member
 
todrigo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 812
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIAaron View Post

Did you look at your old hard drive? The '60gb' hard drive in my launch system was a 74gb or 75gb Seagate Momentus. Yet the hard drive in my 40gb was a 40gb hitachi travelstar. It showed up as 32gb left on the ps3. So the 40gb ps3 had 32gb of usable space, and the 60gb had 55gb of usable space but had a 75gb hard drive. So 205gb on a 250gb drive seems about right(approx. 20% reserved for OS).

very interesting, my 60GB PS3 contained a 60GB hardrive that reformatted to something like 56.5 GB after I removed it from the PS3

PSN - todrigo
todrigo is offline  
post #19 of 27 Old 02-06-2008, 04:03 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
bdwright77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,891
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
you guys are right. I checked the HDD I removed from my PS3 and it is a standard Seagate Momentus 60 GB HDD. I guess I am still wondering why the OS would take up 5 GB on this drive, but a total of 45 GB on my 250 GB HDD from Western Digital.
bdwright77 is offline  
post #20 of 27 Old 02-06-2008, 05:37 PM
Senior Member
 
reisb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 316
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have std 60GB PS3. How can I check how much available space is left?
reisb is offline  
post #21 of 27 Old 02-06-2008, 09:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mr. Hanky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 6,068
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrisg View Post

The cluster size only affects wasted space due to small files. That is, if you have a cluster size of 4KB, then any file smaller than that will still require 4KB of disk space to be stored.

Yes, there is that situation. However, I was more trying to draw attention to the shear size of the master directory that is needed to keep record of (address) all the clusters that can exist on a 250 GB disk. Naturally, that is something that will grow in size alongside the disk size (one cluster size + plus larger drive ==> more logical clusters to be uniquely identified in a table). At 250 GB, it turns out to be a sizable amount beyond just "a few gigabytes of overhead" that we are accustomed to in smaller drives.

I need your sweet love, Rosetta Stone girl!
Mr. Hanky is offline  
post #22 of 27 Old 02-07-2008, 07:12 AM
Senior Member
 
reisb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 316
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by reisb View Post

I have std 60GB PS3. How can I check how much available space is left?

Anyone know how to do this?
reisb is offline  
post #23 of 27 Old 02-07-2008, 07:47 AM
Member
 
tomsteeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Dover, PA
Posts: 135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I think that on top of the discrepancy due to 1024 or 1000 being used...which eats up quite a few GBs as the drives get larger, also I think the PS3 reserves a percentage of the drive for cache/swap etc. So on a 60GB this may account for 5GB (guess) but on a drive 4x this size, this would account for 20GB.

This is not concrete information...just something I remember reading a while ago.

Tom
tomsteeper is offline  
post #24 of 27 Old 02-07-2008, 07:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ferrisg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Suburbs of Minneapolis
Posts: 2,522
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hanky View Post

Yes, there is that situation. However, I was more trying to draw attention to the shear size of the master directory that is needed to keep record of (address) all the clusters that can exist on a 250 GB disk. Naturally, that is something that will grow in size alongside the disk size (one cluster size + plus larger drive ==> more logical clusters to be uniquely identified in a table). At 250 GB, it turns out to be a sizable amount beyond just "a few gigabytes of overhead" that we are accustomed to in smaller drives.

That depends entirely on the partition type. For FAT32 (which is what is probably used here), you're only talking a couple of MiB for the FAT on a 250 GB drive. Even if you had the max number of clusters possible (2^28), you'd only take up about 1 GiB for the FAT.
ferrisg is offline  
post #25 of 27 Old 02-07-2008, 07:50 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Sunkist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 1,113
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
system information in the XMB, all they way at the bottom of the second "tab"
where system settings and such are.

Gamertag: Ikazu
Sunkist is offline  
post #26 of 27 Old 02-07-2008, 10:46 AM
Senior Member
 
MIAaron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 378
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrisg View Post

There isn't a 75 GB 2.5" Seagate SATA drive (or any other brand that I'm aware of). How did you come to the conclusion that it's a 75 GB drive? There is an 80GB drive, but I think it's unlikely they would've used that in the 60GB system.

After researching replacement HDD's I thought the same thing when I saw it. I didn't care enough to look at it any more carefully than that though, and threw it into an ext enclosure. It's odd that it said that on the drive though, cuz XP Pro shows 74gb of available space as well. Usually I have a pretty good memory, but I'm gonna take it home and remove the drive to check it out again.
MIAaron is offline  
post #27 of 27 Old 02-07-2008, 10:59 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ferrisg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Suburbs of Minneapolis
Posts: 2,522
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIAaron View Post

After researching replacement HDD's I thought the same thing when I saw it. I didn't care enough to look at it any more carefully than that though, and threw it into an ext enclosure. It's odd that it said that on the drive though, cuz XP Pro shows 74gb of available space as well. Usually I have a pretty good memory, but I'm gonna take it home and remove the drive to check it out again.

An 80 GB drive will show up as about 76 GB in Windows. Are you sure you didn't have an 80 GB PS3 that you upgraded?

*EDIT*

I see you said launch system, when there weren't 80 GB systems. Odd. I'd be interested to know the model number off the drive. It's on the sticker on the top cover. Usually the second item on Seagate drives.
ferrisg is offline  
Reply PlayStation Area

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off