PSP component video out - messed up aspect output - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 30 Old 02-15-2008, 07:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Anyone care to confirm something for me? Namely, that gameplay output is set to the wrong aspect ratio and everything is too tall/narrow/skinny/stretched vertically/squished horizontally ?


My testing:

The PSP output is set to 4:3 when connected to my standard (4:3) tv, as well as a Gateway 30" monitor set to 4:3 mode (black bars on the sides, leaving a 4:3 area)

So in these cases, the PSP will put black bars on the top and bottom (sent in the signal) to make that 4:3 area into a 16:9 area. Well, at least, it does for the XMB. But then, inexplicably, it will throw in black bars on the sides once you enter a game, as well as increase the thickness/height of the black bars on the top and bottom. It appears at first, that maybe the gameplay output is simply smaller overall, from the XMB image. But then you realise the aspect ratio dropped as well, and now its not just a smaller 16:9 sized image, its a smaller ~1.6:1 sized image.



My tv also has a 16:9 mode where it will take the signal given and stretch it to a 16:9 area (the tv is putting in black bars on the top and bottom itself) - so in that situation I would set the PSP to 16:9 output. I will do this one again and double confirm what happens. I think its the same case where the XMB looks proper, but then gameplay aspect is messed up.




This demonstrates what happens when used with a 4:3 standard screen

-Black square is a standard (4:3) display like my tv

-blue output would be the XMB/PSP menus and is 16:9
and the PSP is set to (4:3) output of course

-red output is gameplay
its not 4:3, its not 16:9

it SHOULD be as big as the blue box

or if it cant scale an image that large, then it can stay pillar and letterboxed, but should at least be of 16:9 aspect
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post #2 of 30 Old 02-15-2008, 09:51 PM
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I noticed the same thing, but only with PS1 games. I don't think it's an issue with the TV.
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post #3 of 30 Old 02-15-2008, 10:09 PM - Thread Starter
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only with PS1 games?

I experience it with UMDs and memory stick downloaded games (demos).

Now I havent tested EVERY UMD or demo I have, but as the behaviour was consistent already I didnt think it necessary to do that.

I'll have some photos of testing up quick
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post #4 of 30 Old 02-15-2008, 10:22 PM - Thread Starter
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A widescreen (16:9) Sony tv is used in the following testing. First up is the XMB menu screen


TV set to 4:3 mode (it'll pillarbox the sides, leaving a 4:3 aspect area in the middle)
PSP set to 16:9 mode

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...sfaux/psp1.jpg
Looks as it should, but you would never do this combination. Just for observation.

TV set to 4:3 mode
PSP set to 4:3 mode


Ok, there's already a problem - the XMB actually measures 1.66666:1 aspect. Not 1.777777. (it's too tall). Not a huge difference - but still noticeable.

TV set to 16:9 mode (fullscreen)
PSP set to 4:3 mode

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...sfaux/psp3.jpg
You would never do this scenario anyways. Just for reference.

TV set to 16:9 mode
PSP set to 16:9 mode


Aspect is correct. BUT strange observation - there is more viewable area on the tv xmb vs the PSP. A little bit (5%?) on each side. But aspect is correct, which is the focus here.





Now we get into testing games in the same order of setups

TV set to 4:3 mode
PSP set to 16:9 mode

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...sfaux/psp5.jpg
Aspect of the game is actually about 1.57:1. Not the 1.77777:1 we're looking for. It's much too tall. You would never do this scenario anyways. Just for reference.

TV set to 4:3 mode
PSP set to 4:3 mode


Aspect of the game is actually about 1.57:1. Not the 1.77777:1 we're looking for. It's much too tall.


TV set to 16:9 mode (fullscreen)
PSP set to 4:3 mode

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...sfaux/psp7.jpg
Aspect of the game is actually about 2.09:1. Not the 1.77777:1 we're looking for. It's much too wide. You would never do this scenario anyways. Just for reference.

TV set to 16:9 mode
PSP set to 16:9 mode


Aspect of the game is actually about 2.09:1. Not the 1.77777:1 we're looking for. It's much too wide. And while it's not the main focus here, why is there still a large black border around the gameplay?





As you can see*, there is no combination of settings to produce a proper aspect gameplay output on the PSP. There are also secondary issues like a large black border around gameplay.

The component video out will produce distorted images regardless. REALLY sucks.

*I want to assure you I experienced the same results on a 30" Gateway and 24" Dell LCD monitor, as well as a 32" Sony CRT TV.
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post #5 of 30 Old 02-20-2008, 03:26 PM - Thread Starter
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I emailed Sony support a couple times and they gave me a # to call - though I have little hope for that route.
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post #6 of 30 Old 02-20-2008, 05:19 PM
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When you use the output from the PSP to the TV for games, the games will only play in their NATIVE resolution (480 x 272). That's why it will not fill the screen.
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post #7 of 30 Old 02-20-2008, 08:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry, wrong answer? 480x272 as you suggest would be a 1.7647 aspect (as I've already pointed out -rounded to standard 16:9 or 1:1.7777777) YET that is NOT what I'm getting and WHY there is a problem.

Do you see the problem?
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post #8 of 30 Old 02-20-2008, 08:41 PM
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Actually UMD disks and other videos via PSP is mostly 720x480p. PSP outputs at 720x480p.
UMD is not limited to 480x272. Maybe some games are rendered at 480x272 but all of it has
the resolution of 480p. The PSP's LCD factor is the only thing that is limiting it.

There is always someone out there that gives you opinion of a product that they don't even own.
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post #9 of 30 Old 02-20-2008, 08:48 PM - Thread Starter
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yeah but within that 480p frame the gameplay aspect ratio is INCORRECT.

As my photos show above. There is no way to get 16:9 gameplay matching the PSP screen.

That's a BROKEN product.
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post #10 of 30 Old 03-07-2008, 09:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Anyone else have input on this?
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post #11 of 30 Old 03-07-2008, 11:14 PM
 
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I'm pretty sure tokerblue already told you the answer, but then you were very rude to him.

A 480x272 image inside a 720x480 signal then horizontally crushed to 4:3 (think 640x480) would make everything a little to skinny and tall. It would also make the image too wide when stretched for display on a 16:9 display. All that you are running in to is the clash of the video world with the computer world.

I'm pretty sure it is working exactly as advertised, and exactly how it is supposed to. It also looks like the PSP being set to 4:3 or 16:9 has no effect on the game output, which makes sense as the PSP has no internal scaler.

Really, it comes down to you using the feature wrong. The video output is really designed for playing back UMD or MemoryStick movies and videos, not for game playback.
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post #12 of 30 Old 03-07-2008, 11:26 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm using the feature wrong by trying to play games with it? Gimme a break dude. If they didnt want you to play games with it, it would be locked out.

http://www.us.playstation.com/PSP/Accessories/SCPH-S180

"Simply plug your PSP into your TV or monitor with the correct cable, and you'll be enjoying all of the game, movie or video thrills of your PSP's LCD screen on the big screen!"

"Play games, videos, photos, music on TV"




Are you suggesting the gameplay would look correct if the display is set to a 3:2 aspect? That's not a possibility with 99% of TVs and monitors, of course.
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post #13 of 30 Old 03-08-2008, 01:35 AM
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I take more issue with the fact the cables make everything blurry as all hell.

Playing Drac X was an utter disappointment. Just scale the output sony, don't add a damned bilinear blur. Or at least give us an option for the scaling algorithm.

grrrrrr....
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post #14 of 30 Old 03-08-2008, 01:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDgaming42 View Post

I take more issue with the fact the cables make everything blurry as all hell.

Playing Drac X was an utter disappointment. Just scale the output sony, don't add a damned bilinear blur. Or at least give us an option for the scaling algorithm.

grrrrrr....

2nd that

XBOX 360-RY35AN
PS3-RY35AN
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post #15 of 30 Old 03-08-2008, 04:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deusfaux View Post

Are you suggesting the gameplay would look correct if the display is set to a 3:2 aspect? That's not a possibility with 99% of TVs and monitors, of course.

Dear god it's true.

I just confirmed it DOES have correct aspect when a display is set to 3:2 aspect.


WTF. That means basically noone can view it properly.

Also that the menu will have incorrect aspect whenever the game does.
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post #16 of 30 Old 03-08-2008, 04:44 PM
 
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Again, the feature is not really intended for gameplay. Sony added the video output for video playback so you can share with a larger audience. Gameplay output is one of those things that pretty much "just so happened to work" so they left it working instead of locking it out, just in case people did want to try it. The lack of an internal hardware scaler means that there is no way to fix it on the hardware side. Adding in a software scaler would have had such an impact on the already struggling framerate of most PSP games that it would have made gameplay pretty pointless in most cases.

Again, the feature is working exactly as intended. It may not meet your personal expectations or wants, but it's doing what it's supposed to.

Could Sony have added a hardware scaler? Sure, at the expense of battery life! The cost of the already too expensive device would have been driven up as well.
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post #17 of 30 Old 03-08-2008, 05:00 PM - Thread Starter
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how do the menu screens (XMB) scale up past 480x272 without a scaler?
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post #18 of 30 Old 03-08-2008, 05:06 PM
 
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Software scaler, which uses regular old CPU power to run. One could guess that the PSP has plenty of CPU left over sitting at the XMB. The same CPU power that runs the software scaler at the dashboard is not available when playing a game, as games tend to push that tiny little proc pretty hard most of the time.
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post #19 of 30 Old 03-08-2008, 05:15 PM - Thread Starter
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hmmm. everything seems to have an explanation then

EXCEPT

why the XMB isn't quite 16:9 when the psp is set to 4:3 mode and its displayed on a 4:3 display. (2nd image above)

It IS 16:9 as it should be when both psp and display are set to 16:9...




I still disagree with you about how it works as intended and how they marketed it. it doesnt work as it should regardless of reasons why it works as it does. It's a broken way to play games - an activity they suggest doing.
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post #20 of 30 Old 03-08-2008, 05:19 PM
 
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"why the XMB isn't quite 16:9 when the psp is set to 4:3 mode and its displayed on a 4:3 tv."

It's quite possible that that is a simple matter of the specific TV in question overscanning a bit more vertically than horizontally. The other option is the normal varience between 720 and 640.
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post #21 of 30 Old 03-08-2008, 05:21 PM - Thread Starter
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I changed my wording around a bit, also you'll see from the photo I took it was done on a lcd display with 0 overscan.

maybe i should measure again.

what do you mean by variance? If it's already inserting black bars on the top and bottom to make the image more wide than 4:3, shouldnt it be capable of doing the full proper amount to bring it down to 1:1.777777 ? instead of the observed 1:1.6666666
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post #22 of 30 Old 03-08-2008, 05:31 PM
 
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Your 4:3+4:3 vs your 16:9+16:9 XMB pics above make it look like there is overscan on that display. Looking at the wrench in the upper left, there is a large gap between it and the top edge of the screen in 4:3, yet almost no gap in 16:9.
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post #23 of 30 Old 03-08-2008, 05:34 PM
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Sony has always used 720 x 480 for NTSC resolution which is a 3:2 ratio. So given that others in this thread have said it looks correct on in a 3:2 display, it would seem that would be the root of the issue. It's not doing 640 x 480 output, but 720 x 480. This was a small problem for us in a game we were doing where the PS3 was outputting 720 x 480 for SD, while the 360 was doing 640 x 480.
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post #24 of 30 Old 03-08-2008, 05:42 PM - Thread Starter
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others? I said it did. NTSC is 3:2 is 480i is 480p for many devices. I know that. I'm pretty sure the 360 outputs 720x480p just like everything else, too (at least over anything non VGA cable)

That's the resolution of the signal. The image carried by it is... anamorphic you could say. Too wide when the device is set for 4:3 output, and too skinny when set to 16:9 output. The 3:2 signal gets squished or stretched depending on the display being used with it, and it ends up looking correct.

The PSP gameplay image is not anamorphic (and that's the problem) - it remains at its default 16:9 resolution. However that's still carried in a 3:2 signal. TV's are either 4:3 or 16:9, so when that 3:2 signal is squished or stretched accordingly, the "already correct" 16:9 gameplay image is distorted.

It only looks right on 3:2 displays - but those don't exist. I just happen to have a ****ed up Dell lcd monitor that only does 3:2 for NTSC/480i/p signals. No 16:9 or 4:3 like it SHOULD have.
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post #25 of 30 Old 03-20-2008, 09:55 PM - Thread Starter
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post #26 of 30 Old 03-20-2008, 10:21 PM
 
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Still stuck on this, huh?

You still don't get it, huh?
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post #27 of 30 Old 03-20-2008, 10:23 PM - Thread Starter
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what's not to get

also there is no overscan on the display. the aspect of the menu content is correct in both pairings, however when viewed on the connected display, extra area is added (in either mode) - for some unknown reason, more is added to the top and bottom in 4:3 mode so as to create a ~1.6:1 area. Thankfully, as I just said, the content within that area is still correct aspect.
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post #28 of 30 Old 04-10-2008, 10:56 AM
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So getting past the boring, technical, clusterfication, jargon, I should not expect to have my PSP video output fill the whole screen when playing games on the HDTV, huh? What a bummer!

Has anyone tried using the VGA box, where you hook the component out puts into it and can hook up directly to a PC monitor. Does that fill the whole screen during game play?

OUTPUTTING GAMES IS THE EXPRESS INTENDED USE FOR THE COMPONENT OUT CABLE!!!!!!! Thats why they sell it. I think Sony should have gone through the trouble of making sure it works like you'd expect when you hook up to a widescreen TV. Sony sells a composite out, (red white yellow), that they tell you cannot be used to output game play, only movies and if you plan to only do this only buy the composite cable. EVERY Gamestop I went to told me this. Sony also tells you this also. That was a big selling point in me buying the PSP slim in the first place! Its funny how during the demo of the PSP slim the sony president is able to get Ridge Racer to show full screen. How'd he do that? (Without sounding all technical and boring!)
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post #29 of 30 Old 04-10-2008, 11:09 AM
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zoom.
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post #30 of 30 Old 07-01-2010, 09:18 PM
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I just bought component cables for my PSP3000 and noticed this issue immediately. WTF! I bought the cable to play GAMES on my TV, not to display my vast library of one UMD movie. Sorry for bumping a super old thread, but I figure it's better than starting a brand new one. Sorry if I'm wrong about that.

After some measuring I've determined that the "Zoom 1" picture mode on my TV gives me a 1.63:1 AR which is close enough to the intended 1.77:1 so I'm going to stick with that since I have no alternative. Sigh! They REALLY should warn you on the package that you can't play games in their proper aspect ratio with this cable.
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