When will consoles use Dolby TrueHD or DTS MA? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 12 Old 03-12-2008, 04:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Any thoughts on this? It would be AMAZING to play a game with such high bitrates and lossless audio.

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post #2 of 12 Old 03-12-2008, 07:51 AM
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Most or all PS3 first party games are Multichannel PCM. I just finished Uncharted in 7.1 PCM, sounded pretty good.
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post #3 of 12 Old 03-12-2008, 09:26 AM
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I would much rather see more console games in 1080p resolution than lossless audio.

Similar thread but for PC games in general. http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1279231
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post #4 of 12 Old 03-13-2008, 05:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShagnWagn View Post

I would much rather see more console games in 1080p resolution than lossless audio.

Similar thread but for PC games in general. http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1279231

I want both! I really hope the next consoles support both. Thanks for the link btw.

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post #5 of 12 Old 03-16-2008, 03:48 PM
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There is no reason for a console to ever use Dolby TrueHD or DTS MA, as any receiver that can decode those can also accept uncompressed PCM, so using compression would just waste processing power on the console which would be better used for other things.
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post #6 of 12 Old 03-17-2008, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kylebisme View Post

There is no reason for a console to ever use Dolby TrueHD or DTS MA, as any receiver that can decode those can also accept uncompressed PCM, so using compression would just waste processing power on the console which would be better used for other things.

there are more factors at play.

How big are the files ? Sure this generation it doesn't matter in terms of fitting on a bluray , but next generation if ram counts hold true we are looking at 2 gigs or more of ram which means alot more textures are needed and less space for other things .

Also if the bitrate is to high it can greatly affect loading times . Doby true hd could reduce that burden . The ps3 already has problems with loading times in most games , there is no reason to increase that .

The problem is that i don't believe true hd is supported currently on the ps3. I think it down grades it
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post #7 of 12 Old 03-21-2008, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by gljvd View Post

there are more factors at play.

No, there isn't, and the rest of your post is nothing but nonesense.

TrueHD and DTS-MA are useful for movies becauase movie soundtracks are pre-recorded, and hence such compression can be employed to save disk space for other things. On the other hand, games have to generate their soundtracks in real time to match what happens when the person playing controls the game. They do so by mixing various mono samples, be the compressed or otherwise, to create multichannel PCM soundtrack. Neither TrueHD or DTS-MA can be used to lower the file size, RAM space, or load times of games. Again, such compression could only be used for output, and doing so would only waste processing power, not providing any benift.
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post #8 of 12 Old 03-25-2008, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by gljvd View Post

there are more factors at play.

How big are the files ? Sure this generation it doesn't matter in terms of fitting on a bluray , but next generation if ram counts hold true we are looking at 2 gigs or more of ram which means alot more textures are needed and less space for other things .

Also if the bitrate is to high it can greatly affect loading times . Doby true hd could reduce that burden . The ps3 already has problems with loading times in most games , there is no reason to increase that .

The problem is that i don't believe true hd is supported currently on the ps3. I think it down grades it

Not true. It will only downgrade it if you send it over opitcal.
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post #9 of 12 Old 03-25-2008, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kylebisme View Post

No, there isn't, and the rest of your post is nothing but nonesense.

TrueHD and DTS-MA are useful for movies becauase movie soundtracks are pre-recorded, and hence such compression can be employed to save disk space for other things. On the other hand, games have to generate their soundtracks in real time to match what happens when the person playing controls the game. They do so by mixing various mono samples, be the compressed or otherwise, to create multichannel PCM soundtrack. Neither TrueHD or DTS-MA can be used to lower the file size, RAM space, or load times of games. Again, such compression could only be used for output, and doing so would only waste processing power, not providing any benift.


Right so next time i'm playing gears of war , its the system generating marcus's voice out of thin air and not the actor that was recording the lines ? Next time the music starts playing tahts the xbox 360 just making up music ?

Face the facts every sound you here is pre recorded from sound effects to spoken dialogue and the more you put on the disc the worse it is

7.1pcm sound takes up alot of room much more than 7.1 true hd . That is why compression is used. It was said by oblivion developers that half the dvd was used for its audio .



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Not true. It will only downgrade it if you send it over opitcal.

thanks for the correction , i knew there was something with true hd and the ps3
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post #10 of 12 Old 03-25-2008, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by gljvd View Post

Right so next time i'm playing gears of war , its the system generating marcus's voice out of thin air...

No, like I said in the post above, Marcus's voice along with all the other sound effects, are pre-recorded mono samples, mixed by the game engine to generate surround sound to match what is happening in the game. So, again, surround sound compression such as TrueHD and DTS-MA are useless to games, because games have mix their soundtracks in real-time in response to the player's inputs.
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post #11 of 12 Old 03-26-2008, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kylebisme View Post

No, like I said in the post above, Marcus's voice along with all the other sound effects, are pre-recorded mono samples, mixed by the game engine to generate surround sound to match what is happening in the game. So, again, surround sound compression such as TrueHD and DTS-MA are useless to games, because games have mix their soundtracks in real-time in response to the player's inputs.

None of these are mono samples.

There are some parts generated on the fly but spoken dialogue , cut scenes and musical sound tracks are all pre recorded and are set to play with triggers.

When gears of war is doing a forced load and we move at a snails pace and marcus or someone else is talking that is prerecorded high quality sound being played back. In oblivion when the king talks to you in the dungon that is prerecorded in whatever format they wanted. They do not mix the sound there and then. It would be an increadble amount of resources needed and there is no reason as their dialogue never changes. Its the same when you run through the woods in oblivion. The foot steps of your horse may be generated then but the music is pre recorded and set to play after a certian time running in the woods. None of these are mono. These are all fully fleshed out multi channel recordings.

Also by definition you can't get 7.1 lcpm sound. You can't upmix something from mono tone. You can't take a mono voice and make it into a real lcpm track. Even hollywood studios just end up making a matrix out of the sound channels they have when they convert it to something higher up. Its just much better than what our recievers can do on the fly
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post #12 of 12 Old 03-26-2008, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gljvd View Post

When gears of war is doing a forced load and we move at a snails pace and marcus or someone else is talking that is prerecorded high quality sound being played back.

As I've been saying all along, what you are hearing in such instances is not pre-recorded surround sound, but rather a collection of mono sound samples being mixed by the game engine. If you had any experience in creating or modifying game sound at all, you wouldn't be attempting to argue otherwise. For example, here is a shot from Gears of War's game editor showing some of the samples used for Marcus's dialog:



Again, the samples are mono. If those sound were pre-recorded surround sound tracks, the direction of other sounds would be predetermined instead of changing relative to your view as you swing your view around. However, the positioning of various sounds do change with respect to your view no matter how you swing it around, and they do so precisely because games sound tracks are generated in real-time from a collection of pre-recorded samples, with the positioning in the sound field being determined by the locations of the sources in the game world.

Like in a movie, an actor's voice is often recorded in mono from a single mic and then mixed into the surround sound track by the sound engineers based on that actor's location relative to the view of the camera. But in a game, the camera's view is often not pre-determined, nor is what sounds might be made when, and hence the game engine has to take the role of the sound engineer and do that mixing dynamically, so that the sound matches the game state.
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