HDMI 1080p computer resolution won't fill screen of 1080p LED TV... - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 09-07-2011, 10:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

I tried this with 3 different Full HD TV's at the store today. Brought my laptop in, to test if I could use one of the smaller TV's as a computer monitor. A 32" model isn't that much bigger than the 27" computer monitors, so I figured I'd test how text looks on a 32" and a 37" screen.

Well, we couldn't get the TV to display the 1080p HDMI output from my laptop on a pixel for pixel basis. Even after one of the clerks figured out how to stretch the picture on one of the TV's (Samsung 32D6500, 3D capable), we were still about 2-3 pixels short from filling the screen, on each side.

You might say that's not that much to loose, but since this is digital and not analog, and there's a fixed number of pixels (1920x1080), the space lost is not the problem:

The problem is the fact that the TV is displaying 1920x1080 output from my computer using only ~1916x1066 pixels. This means a conversion takes place, with the TV recalculating and massively downgrading the original input.

The image quality is for the dogs. Text is a joke...


If anyone knows what the cause of this is, can link some place with info, or can tell me;

1) if this can be fixed with some special way of setting it up?
2) are there some brands / models that handle PC output the "right" way and other's don't?
3) is it an HDMI issue?

This was really only my first test of hooking up a laptop to a modern 3D capable LED TV. So far, not good, without even testing 3D yet...
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post #2 of 16 Old 09-07-2011, 12:10 PM
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Not sure what video card you have but this is what helped with my 1080p monitor

http://www.aoclarkejr.com/ati-cataly...n-options.html

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post #3 of 16 Old 09-07-2011, 12:14 PM
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My older Sony LCD rear projection tv has this problem with pc input. It is a 720p model and I have to reduce my resolution because of overscaning (my laptop adjusts automaticlly though) and it doesn't matter if I use HDMI or component. Now my Olevia 768p lcd doesn't have this problem. Any pc I've hooked up to it (via vga, HDMI or component) displays full screen without any loss of resolution. I'm really surprised that a modern flat screen would have this problem. I always thought it was because the Sony was a rear projection model.

As far as text goes, yep trying to read most stuff really sucks on a tv. I end up going to 150% on my browser. Either that or sit a lot closer to the set.
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post #4 of 16 Old 09-08-2011, 02:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cstmstyle View Post

Not sure what video card you have but this is what helped with my 1080p monitor

Thank you much for the link. That's actually precisely what we did in the store where I was testing compatibility, however that misses the real problem, the 1:1 pixel match of input:display without conversion done by the TV.


Here's what I wrote to him to clarify the issue...


I had issues with driving LED TV's in a store (tried a few)

like you said, the picture was centered and not taking the full screen.

We did use the "fix" you describe, however, that does not make the picture a 1:1 pixel match. Cause its a slider, you either end up over-scanning a tiny bit or under-scanning a tiny bit. We made it to within 2-3 pixels on each side, which is ALMOST taking up the full screen, its not even visible that its ever so slightly NOT the full screen.

But this is a serious problem, because for a sharp picture, you need exact 1:1 pixels used.
Cause if you're displaying 1920x1080 pixels on your 1920x1080 LCD screen, but you're not using every pixel, being off by a single pixel, like using 1918x1078, or over-scanning to 1922x1082, the TV is going to re-calculate your image, with the result, that any text displayed looks like dog food, cause computer fonts need to be pixel-accurate to work.

I realize that your method works fine for games and movies, but its no solution to use, say a 32" TV as your full time computer monitor...
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post #5 of 16 Old 09-08-2011, 07:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhufnagel View Post
My older Sony LCD rear projection tv has this problem with pc input. It is a 720p model and I have to reduce my resolution because of overscaning (my laptop adjusts automaticlly though) and it doesn't matter if I use HDMI or component. Now my Olevia 768p lcd doesn't have this problem. Any pc I've hooked up to it (via vga, HDMI or component) displays full screen without any loss of resolution. I'm really surprised that a modern flat screen would have this problem. I always thought it was because the Sony was a rear projection model.

As far as text goes, yep trying to read most stuff really sucks on a tv. I end up going to 150% on my browser. Either that or sit a lot closer to the set.
I found out why modern panels are worse than (some) older panels: At least with Samsung, older panels had an option for taking a signal just as a straight scan, without trying to be smart about it, understand what it is or recalculate it.
According to the sales guy at my local TV store, most newer panels only have various auto-modes, like wide-auto, wide-zoom, auto, etc.

Those auto-modes are pretty retarded, since they are incapable of detecting when the resolution of the output exactly matches the resolution of their display.

Basically, they are digital display devices that can accept some analog input, but act as if everything was analog or needed adaptation of some sort.

Tomorrow, I go with computer to the store, once again...
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post #6 of 16 Old 09-08-2011, 12:59 PM
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It's totally going to depend on specific TV models, and not really brands. The issue is that lots of modern day TV's will still intentionally overscan the image (digitally) because there is the chance that older video sources may not have clean edges.

Lots of TV's will however have options allowing you to set your source over each HDMI input. It should have a "PC" or "Game" mode or something similar which disables as much post-processing as possible. Hopefully that will disable the overscan as well.

You may also want to grab a VGA cable and bring that with you. Some sets will treat HDMI was an "untrustable source" and overscan it, but will have a VGA input that it assumes to be a PC and will cleanly display the signal. Yes, you lose a touch of quality as it's analog vs digital, but it's sure as hell much better then dealing with a non 1:1 pixel ratio.

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post #7 of 16 Old 09-10-2011, 01:17 AM
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I use a 46" Sony Nx711 for my monitor, which replaces a 3007wfp 30 2560x1600 monitor. Text looks fine on TV's, but make sure to turn off sharpening, it just kills text for some reason, i think because modern os's use cleartype which has something like anti-aliasing. Never had a problem with achieving a 1:1 ratio on this, or a 46" Sharp LE835 or an old 26" Sharp 720p TV.


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post #8 of 16 Old 09-12-2011, 04:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you for all your help so far! From the answers I received, the question now becomes this:

What 2011 model, 3D capable LED TV's have a PC MODE or straight scan MODE you can select for HDMI inputs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tory40 View Post

I use a 46" Sony Nx711 for my monitor, which replaces a 3007wfp 30 2560x1600 monitor. Text looks fine on TV's, but make sure to turn off sharpening, it just kills text for some reason, i think because modern os's use cleartype which has something like anti-aliasing. Never had a problem with achieving a 1:1 ratio on this, or a 46" Sharp LE835 or an old 26" Sharp 720p TV.

From what I understand from current TV vendors is, that older TV's had a 'straight scan' mode, which made for perfect 1:1 display of computer output. What I tried in stores now lacks the options you mentioned. And yes, I agree, all that TV processing has to be turned off, but that comes after taking the first hurdle of getting a 1:1 display...

Quote:
Originally Posted by krimson View Post

Lots of TV's will however have options allowing you to set your source over each HDMI input. It should have a "PC" or "Game" mode or something similar which disables as much post-processing as possible. Hopefully that will disable the overscan as well.

Apparently, the number of available TV's with a PC specific menu choice or a 'straight scan' option seem to have dwindled. And since I want a modern, 3D capable screen, buying an older model for the PC friendly feature would defeat the purpose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krimson View Post

You may also want to grab a VGA cable and bring that with you. Some sets will treat HDMI was an "untrustable source" and overscan it, but will have a VGA input that it assumes to be a PC and will cleanly display the signal. Yes, you lose a touch of quality as it's analog vs digital, but it's sure as hell much better then dealing with a non 1:1 pixel ratio.

Loosing 'a touch of quality' isn't really acceptable when you haven't yet bought any TV and are looking for the 'right' one, that doesn't force you into ugly compromises. Bringing a VGA cable would just encourage sales people to call the problem "solved" and move on to try closing the sale.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krimson View Post

It's totally going to depend on specific TV models, and not really brands. The issue is that lots of modern day TV's will still intentionally overscan the image (digitally) because there is the chance that older video sources may not have clean edges.

Yeah, this really hits the crux of the matter. I need to find a 3D TV with PC mode or straight scan ability...

If anybody knows such a device, please let me know!
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post #9 of 16 Old 04-26-2013, 02:46 PM
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I have a 2011 LG 55" LED smart TV with 3D and 2D to 3D conversion options... I use this as a part time monitor for my laptop, hooked up through 1080p HDMI and used the input labeled HDMI PC (which I am guessing is a straight scan mode?). I am not extremely Technical but as far as I can tell it fills the screen and looks great. I have noticed that it if the screen is flipped up (open), it doesn't fit the screen on the top and bottom, but does on the sides. it seems a little "squished"... but the second I shut the lap top, to tuck it away into my entertainment center, it pops into the entire screen and looks perfect, for then I use my wireless keyboard and mouse. So far i love this set up especially the TV, it seems pretty damn clear to me but I am not a pro at telling if its is in fact a 1:1 ratio but for playing downloaded media its perfect, and the few games I do have seem to look great. I recommend trying out the LG LED TVs to see if the PC mode is still available on the new ones.

Hope this helps
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post #10 of 16 Old 04-26-2013, 03:27 PM
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I have home theater PCs running on both a 60-in Sharp Aquos and a 70-in Vizio via HDMI. The Aquos was a bit weird to setup at 1920x1080 until I discovered the "dot by dot" mode. The Vizio just plain worked right out of the box in "normal" mode.

I was under the impression that all modern LED HDTVs have some sort of 1:1 mode.

Try the Sharps at your local big box retailer and search for "dot by dot." Good luck in your quest!

EDIT: I checked a few Sharp owners manuals online (a good idea perhaps for you to consider) and notice that "dot by dot" is still a standard feature, even on their latest offerings.
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post #11 of 16 Old 04-27-2013, 12:39 PM
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Whoa, this thread is from 2011!!!!

Well, since its now reopened I think that the laptop is the source of the issue but probably just a software config issue. The OP tried three different TVs, with the same result. Since this is a laptop and it has a built-in display, its likely that it was an issue with either duplicating the existing display or extending it to the TV. Anyone who has used laptops with projectors or secondary displays knows exactly what I'm talking about.

If you run into this situation, I suggest testing the laptop turned on but the lid closed and connected to the TV. The display on the laptop will no longer be a factor, if the issue continues then I would look into the video output on the laptop. I personally have never run into a TV that supports 1080P and fails to display 1080P over a digital connection like HDMI unless its an issue at the source.
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post #12 of 16 Old 06-03-2013, 02:17 PM
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Hi guys,

i have the same problem. I just bought a new TV and figured out, that only 1360 x 720 can be displayed from laptop output.
Well it definitely has nothing to do with the graphic card. There are in fact two main points. The TV Display resolution and the accepted input formats like described very good in this article:

http://hometheater.about.com/od/televisionbasics/qt/1080ppitfall.htm

From this point i think, a tv must have 1080p resolution and support 1080p 60fps input.

But its just a guess. I will try it with my laptop in the next store.

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post #13 of 16 Old 08-05-2013, 12:25 AM
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I have a laptop with a broken screen hooked up via hdmi to my led 1080 p tv. i had a usb keyboard and mouse hooked up to laptop. with lid shut full 1080p resolution. with it open 720p. keyboard broke so needed to use laptop keyboard. so of course laptop would have to be open while using its keyboard. the solution to the problem is in display settings. right click on empty space in desktop. click screen resolution. under multiple display dropdown choose show desktop only on display 2. click apply and ur laptop monitor will go black and ur tv display connected via vga or hdmi to tv will be correct resolution.
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post #14 of 16 Old 08-10-2013, 05:29 AM
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Missing some pixels when using TV as display output?.... AMD?.... Open Catalyst Control Center > the settings are there somewhere wink.gif
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post #15 of 16 Old 08-31-2013, 03:25 PM
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Hello and Thanks Taskman, your suggestion helped me solve my issue. Indeed when the output on the computer is set to both, it applies a maximum settings to the TV resolution witch may not include the 1920x1080p. So I just set the output to TV only and got the full settings that I need under display resolution on win7.
Hope this helps others and thanks again.
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post #16 of 16 Old 12-03-2013, 03:29 AM
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You're just wasting your breath...

Most of them don't even know the difference (in hardware) between the imprecise VGA and the digital DVI (specially designed for "dot to dot" matching aka PC_pixel to Monitor_pixel)
I'm playing with a Sharp LC37x20E LCD TV advertised as a 1920x1080 panel (aka "native resolution") and that "dot to dot" option is missing.
When I'm hooking this TV to the laptop and raising the HDMI out resolution to 1920x1080 , I have to lower the scaling to 65% (H & V ; Intel 4000 HD Graphics settings)
But if I change the resolution to only 1360x768 the auto-scalling is ok; However, that doesn't mean is a real "dot to dot" resolution.
Modern LCD TVs are not really "digital" . Even if the signal feeding the TV is digital (through HDMI), the input interface/scaling chip will interfere and distort it eventually because of those conversions.
and not to mention thir 40ms to 100ms enormous lagg... (vs the 2ms to 10ms in PC monitors)
I think this is not a technological unfixable problem in the big panels but they build them like this on purpose, so to keep the PC_Monitors industry alive

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