Way to convert Composite -> Component? Sony Playstation 3D Display - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 17 Old 09-28-2012, 07:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey there,

I'm trying to find a way to convert a composite source to a component input. Mainly because I have the Sony Playstation 3D Display as a computer monitor / extra gaming TV upstairs in my home, and it only has 2xHDMI 1xComponent.

This works fine for PS2, Xbox, etc as component cables are available for them but I play a lot of older consoles as well (Saturn, Dreamcast, NES, SNES, Genesis, etc). I've tried to find adapters, but have only managed to find a couple of pricier component -> composite solutions, while I want the other way around.

Things I'm aware of:
I don't expect component to magically improve the video quality over composite or make it magicks-HD. I just want a SD, composite quality signal on my Playstation TV.
On some television models, you can plug a composite video cable into the green component slot and it will work it out. This results in a monochrome picture on the Playstation TV.
I realize a receiver or an upscaler could probably handle this: But I would really prefer something cheaper (an adapter if possible) and smaller: Mostly because the display is largely a computer monitor, and a sometimes retro gaming monitor.

Would something like a splitter work? Split the composite cable into three RCA cables, each one going into a component input? I'm fairly ignorant about the variations in signals between the formats.

Does anyone know of an adapter, or another solution?

Thanks!
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post #2 of 17 Old 09-28-2012, 08:38 PM
 
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A quick "component to composite" google brings up a bunch of small adapter bits like this:

http://www.amazon.com/Component-Composite-w-Down-Scaling/dp/B003FJKHBU

EDIT: Apparently I am a bit retarded over here. I read your whole post, then immediately went and looked for the opposite item. Matt Damoooon.
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post #3 of 17 Old 09-28-2012, 08:45 PM
 
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Composite to HDMI is a lot more common and a bit more futureproof where your next display may have HDMI as it's only input.

http://www.amazon.com/Composite-S-video-Audio-HDMI-Converter/dp/B003NS0UUQ/ref=pd_sxp_grid_i_0_0

You could then pair it up with a 25$ HDMI auto-sensing switch if you need more inputs.

There. A proper answer works better for you, right? wink.gif
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post #4 of 17 Old 09-28-2012, 09:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Haha, thanks for continuing the search darklordjames.

I just came across those myself. They're a little pricey as I was hoping for a $10 or so adapter wink.gif , but I suppose they would certainly do the job.

Maybe I'll try buying a three way splitter and splitting the composite output into the three component inputs.. If anyone would like to warn me that that would absolutely never work: I'm all ears. :P
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post #5 of 17 Old 09-28-2012, 09:27 PM
 
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It won't work. You'll just end up buying the HDMI adapter anyway, throwing $45 at it after the wasted $5. smile.gif

Composite basically runs two signals over one cable. One for light, one for color. This is why you get a greyscale image on the green component hookup, as green for component is also for light information. The other two connections are for differences to color, which is far different than the composite color signal. Somewhere along the line you need to do a format conversion, and format conversions require a chipset of some sort to do the conversion. This isn't a simple wiring problem.

If the PS TV has a tuner you could go the other direction and run a composite to RF signal, which are very similar but with the addition of audio. The adapter would be $10-20 probably, but would probably be the lower quality option.

Or just shift over to emulation for the systems.
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post #6 of 17 Old 09-28-2012, 09:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks! That's exactly what I was wondering. I figured if it didn't require something with some processing it would be easier to find adapters.

I had considered emulation as well. Emulating up to the Saturn may work out, but I believe Dreamcast emulation can be a little hit and miss.

The PS TV unfortunately does NOT have a tuner. It's strictly just HDMI and component.

I do have an express card TV tuner with some composite hookups, but quality is very lacking. I suppose I could rig up a very poor quality setup with that and my laptop connected to the PS TV if I feel like being a stubborn madman.

It looks like this one is as solved as it can be: Thanks again!
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post #7 of 17 Old 09-28-2012, 09:49 PM
 
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Your poor Dreamcast should be running VGA anyway, spitting out great 640x480p. smile.gif That is easy enough to get a VGA to HDMI adapter for. You'd just have to find a Dreamcast VGA breakout box.
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post #8 of 17 Old 09-28-2012, 11:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Poor dreamcast indeed. Good call. wink.gif I've seen them around online, just never bothered to invest in one.

Cheers James, thanks one last time for all the tips!
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post #9 of 17 Old 10-01-2012, 12:26 PM - Thread Starter
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A quick update here, should anyone in the future be trying to match my setup:

on the Playstation 3D Display, you -cannot- change the aspect ratio for HDMI signals. ONLY with component can you do this.

With this in mind, the composite to HDMI upscaler linked above can only put out a widescreen signal. I really like having the correct ratio, as opposed to stretched images. So this device will not work well for my purposes with the PS TV.

I may end up getting a composite to vga converter, and the vga -> component adapter so I can use the correct aspect ratio, but I fear the image quality. smile.gif
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post #10 of 17 Old 10-01-2012, 12:37 PM
 
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Instead of converting twice, look for a used JVC VHS/DVD-combo player. They were the only VHS deck I saw with component output. They would also have composite in for recording from a cable box and passing through to the TV. Any old used DVD recorder with a dead DVD drive would also be a good candidate for composite input with component pass-through.
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post #11 of 17 Old 10-01-2012, 12:40 PM
 
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post #12 of 17 Old 10-01-2012, 01:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Awesome! This looks like it will work perfectly. You saved the day again, darklordjames. smile.gif

EDIT: And used ones with broken DVD readers are fairly cheap. Not to mention quite a few sport both component and HDMI out.
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post #13 of 17 Old 10-01-2012, 01:41 PM
 
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You'll want to download the manual of whichever one you choose to make sure that it will pass through composite to component. I'd guess that some will require a compoiste cable coming out for composite coming in. I hazily recall that being the primary difference between the high and low tiers for the JVC VHS/DVD combos. On the cheaper ones, component only carried the DVD half of the player, while composite carried both sides. I'd guess that isn't an issue with DVD recorders, but double check in the hook-up section of the manual before you pay for shipping. smile.gif

New off Amazon, or from a Fulfilled By Amazon seller means good return policy with free shipping. You may not get that elsewhere. You're in something of a fuzzy area in what you want to do, so just make sure you can easily return it is what I'm saying. smile.gif
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post #14 of 17 Old 10-06-2012, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
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One final update:

I ordered a DVD recorder with a broken DVD drive (Samsung DVD-R135 [apparently the drive failing is common with this model] for ~$25 shipped off eBay). It works perfectly for my purposes. It is able to convert the composite signal to component, and the Playstation Display picks it up.

Thanks for all the tips, I wouldn't have arrived at this solution without them.

Maybe if I'm bored for a few days I'll open up LabVIEW or see if there are some existing Arduino projects around this, study up on the signals, and see about trying to write my own converter. biggrin.gif
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post #15 of 17 Old 10-06-2012, 02:47 PM
 
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Good to hear that this is solved. smile.gif
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post #16 of 17 Old 10-28-2012, 06:25 PM
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There's 2 problems with using a DVD recorder

1) I you're trying to play Virtua Cop or House of the Dead.with the Stunner, it will not work by the very nature of CRT technology VS. LCD technology.

CRT shot out electrons in a dot-by dot fashion first it does (for the sake of example, not sure exactly o the exact order, just demonstrating a principle) the upper left dot, then scan across to the right, one dot at a time, then does the next line, dot by dot, and so forth until it its the last line, then repeats the process 30 times per second. When you pull the trigger, the camera can see, accurate to a millionth of a second (again, not sure of a per dot hertz rate, sake of example) when any light hits the gun, then the gun is connected to the internal clock on the Saturn, and on a formula, figures the frame stamp, and then within the frame, based on a fraction of a frame, the X and Y coordinates and determines where the bullet files to.

I'm not exactly sure how LD technology works, but the screen is usually computed one frame at a tie because compression algorithms don't give a dot-by-dot absolute reading, but relative to previous dots. TV's usually have built in processors to improve picture quality. and the Crystals are synched to act at he same time, and not in a pixel-by-pixel progression. The thing you avoid is scanlines, but scanlines are what makes light guns work. If you ever want to play Virtua Cop, DO NOT THROW OUT YOUR CRT TV.

2) Even if you have absolutely no light gun games if your collection, consider the following. Take a Wii, or something similar where a motion control moves a cursor. If plugged directly into a Component Input like the PS3DTV, the cursor should act normally. Now try plugging it in the composite or S-Video output into a DVD Reorder input. Look at the main screen where you are moving your hand. Notice a delayed reaction, like you are skating, If you're using a DVD recorder as an input converter, notice that even when not recording, the cursor skates late. It's hard to draw a circle without training yourself, let alone interact with items on the screen in a reasonable time. So even though it will convert it, it's not accurate in timing to the nearest 30th on a second, let alone accurate enough to keep the dot sync or the purposes o a light gun. A VCR doesn't have that problem because it doesn't either have to convert composite or S-Video into Component and/or convert into a burnable format on DVD.

The reason why S-Video to component is important is because a lot of good TVs had component, but no S-Video even in the early 2000's. I heard any good converter (A/V receiver, special converter) will convert S-Video to Component quick enough not to throw o a light gun. All it is is a straight run through of the black and white signal and splitting the color from 1 stream to 2 color components. Composite takes a single signal stream and first must split it into B/W and color, but a cheap, unpowered $5 adapter can do the job, and then split the color into 2 colors. And going down from S-Video to Composite then up to component renders the S-Video cables I paid good money for moot, like connecting 2 garden hoses to a Y adapter and having it come out one hose, the rate water leaves is cut in half, then i it's split into 3, each stream has 1/3 the low rate but the data is baked u at he first Y, and half the water lows out., whereas the S-Video just cuts the color in half of capacity per color stream, but the water flow is the same in terms of total water. Now replace water with Video Data. Instead o quantity of water it's quantity of data, and in terms of electronics, quantity is quality, all other things being equal.

If anyone knows of a cheap Composite/S-Video -> component converted WITH QUICK ENOUGH DELAY to let a light gun work on a CRT TV, let me know. Trust me I tried the DVD recorder, too much delay for a Wii, let alone a light gun game which must be accurate to the millionth of a second.
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post #17 of 17 Old 12-07-2012, 08:56 PM
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I've got good news as long as you're not playing a light gun game. Visit my new post: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1444094/playing-retro-games-on-newer-tvs-light-gun-woes-and-vertical-hold
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