AVS Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.

Gran Turdismo 4 in 1080i and 5.1?

18K views 236 replies 46 participants last post by  briankmonkey 
#1 ·
Is there anyone here who can translate Japanese into Engrish? Here is a website that seems to be official that says something about Gran Turdismo 4, something about 5.1 channels, something about 480p and 1080i. But the site is Flash (suck!) so it can't be translated by Bablefish or whatnot.

Linky Link


Select ABOUT and then go to the 3rd page. Are these the actual game specifications? If so I need to change my underwear.
 
#53 ·
Oh, I also found out that the 5.1 is for the FMV only. The actual game audio decends down to Pro Logic II. Not surprised there. Well actually I am because if they were actually able to squeeze 1080i on a game like this out of the PS2, they should have been able to do full in-game 5.1 as well. There are no excuses for non-1080i (or at least 480p widescreen) games on the PS2 now.
 
#56 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by Joe Redifer
Oh, I also found out that the 5.1 is for the FMV only. The actual game audio decends down to Pro Logic II. Not surprised there. Well actually I am because if they were actually able to squeeze 1080i on a game like this out of the PS2, they should have been able to do full in-game 5.1 as well. There are no excuses for non-1080i (or at least 480p widescreen) games on the PS2 now.
Well the Xbox has hardware that handles its real time 5.1 signal encoding where as the PS2 would have to do it in software. Doing so probably would have been too much of a performance hit. I'll take pro logic and 1080i instead.
 
#57 ·
Wow, I hate to be the voice of reason here, but based on those screenshots, there isn't hardly any difference between 480p and 1080i.......especially when the game is actually MOVING.


Too many times people get caught-up in eye-candy of screenshots, which never really apply to the game when you're playing it, when its in-motion.


Although **IF** the PS2 is actually running this game at 1080i, you can flat-out guarantee that there WILL be a SIGNIFICANT framerate difference between the two :)


Thanks but no thanks...I'll stick with a constant-framerate at the already-perfectly-good 480p or 480i resolutions, and not monkey around with 1080i on a system that clearly isn't designed to support it without taking major concessions from other areas like incidential graphics (track-side for example) and so on.


Resolution is far from "everything" in a game.....a quality 480p presentation can look 100x better than a lame presentation running at double the resolution.
 
#58 ·
"Although **IF** the PS2 is actually running this game at 1080i, you can flat-out guarantee that there WILL be a SIGNIFICANT framerate difference between the two "


at other forums people are reporting 1080i at 60fps..


Not talking about GT4 here, but for me I'd rather have 60fps and slightly less detailed graphics than 30fps and more detail.as gameplay is more important than graphics for me.. It's a shame seeing so many of these xbox games, (yes PS2, Cube sometimes as well, but seems xbox more often) choose 30fps or less and lots of extra details as opposed to 60fps and less graphical detail.. Project Gotham Racing 2 is a perfect example of this, the gameplay feels slower than the first as the framerate is 30fps as opposed to 60fps like the first.
 
#59 ·
headrusch,


the difference is pretty clear to me from those screenshots..all the jaggies are gone in 1080i...that is a HUGE difference when you're actually sitting in front of the tv and playing


i just can't believe that the ps2 is doing 1080i..all these years with all these 480i games..blech
 
#60 ·
HOLY CRAP...it just dawned on Me in looking at those screenshots again...


Those two screenshots don't look like 480p versus 1080i, they look more like 480p versus 480p with Anti-Aliasing enabled, or 1080i display while the GAME is generating everything at the 480 level...like an UPCONVERTING DVD PLAYER might.


See how the CIVIC logo on the hatch of the car isn't any more legible at 1080i versus 480??? That must mean that the texture for that car is native at 480, and upping the output to 1080 doesn't make the logo any more legible...or something else is going on. There are still jaggies in both screenshots, they are just more pronounced at 480.


Also look at the road and grass...it doesn't look any more detailed, if anything it just looks softer...like Aliasing is being applied......so who knows.


Anyways to my eyes, the difference is hardly worth mentioning..I'd rather have a good game and framerate than good graphics. Of course, when I was in my younger years and teens it was all about the graphics......now that I'm older and wiser (heh heh).....I'll take gameplay over graphics.
 
#61 ·
This 1080i feature in GT4 can be quite misleading to a lot of people. Because the most people believe 1080i = 1920x1080i @ 60Hz/30fps. Hence, this can lead people to believe that PlayStation2 is rendering GT4 at 1920x1080 pixels @ 30fps or 1920x560 pixels @ 60fps.


TV standards (analogue ones in particular) are speced in terms of horizontal and vertical timings and pixel clocks (normally capped by B/W)

It is pretty simple to set the display hardware for a TV standard such as 720p or 1080i (1080 lines consisting of 1920 samples/pixels) but only generate 640 or 960 pixels... the same thing occured with older consoles (eg. 320 pixels for PlayStation1 and Genesis, 256 pixels for SNES )


As people have said before, if you are generating a 640x480 (480p) framebuffer, it isn't much of a step to generate a 640x540 frame buffer to display with 3x horizontal mag as 1080i. And with the help of RAMDAC, final images drawn on your display can get slightly post-processed look.


As many displays dont actually have horizontal resolutions anywhere near 1920 anyway it's a nice added feature for GT4. :) (Well, since 1080i standard is interlaced, it's never possible to achieve the full 1920 samples/pixels of horizontal resolution in theory anyway).


The bottom line is, PlayStation2 is not rendering it at 1080i resolution. No where near close to it.
 
#62 ·
Quote:
It's not about if the system can or not, it's about if the developer wants to take the time to implement it.


No, that's not it.


The PS2 is a machine that is memory starved, it wasn't designed to do 1080i, and frankly I would be AMAZED if it can do 1080i at even 20fps. If it can do 1080i at 60fps, then something is very misaligned in this world as Sega REMOVED 720p from the ESPN Basketball series because of performance issues, and no one disputes that the Xbox is MUCH more powerful than the PS2.
 
#63 ·
policy, read what was quoted for his response, he wasnt' referring to 1080i. He was referring to nothru22's statement which is completely false. The hardware is fully capable of doing 480p, then again you said earlier "The PS2 lacks the balls to do 1080i, it can barely do 480p." which is also completely false in regards to 480p.


"Originally posted by nothru22

The PS2 can hardly do 480p, this is completely true. Why be in denial? What percentage of games can do 480p? Why is this percentage so small? Because it struggles too much and needs too much extra time to code. This is a fact, not something a fanboy can deny.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




"It's not about if the system can or not, it's about if the developer wants to take the time to implement it."
 
#64 ·
Quote:
policy, read what was quoted for his response, he wasnt' referring to 1080i. He was referring to nothru22's statement which is completely false.
It takes NOTHING to code a game to be 480p, if the PS2 is so capable of doing this, why do so FEW PS2 games do it? It's not as if more Xbox owners own HDTVs than PS2 owners, just based on numbers, %10 of PS2 owners more than likely own 10x the amount of HDTVs than all Xbox owners combined.


It's because the hardware is lacking, he's right. This can't be denied. The PS2 is a machine that is starved for memory. It wasn't designed for 480p, when the PS2 first came out, practically NO ONE owned a high def TV. Now many of us do, and the PS2 is finding itself lacking in the hardware shootout.


Furthermore, the screen shots blow, they aren't even as good as Project Gotham 1. I don't see what the uproar is about. In fact they don't look much better than GT3.


Look at this comparison of 480i GT3 with 1080i GT4, it's garbage.

http://matt.buck.bcksales.com/GT3vsGT4.jpg


1080i on the top, 480i on the bottom. GT3 actually had LESS jaggis :rolleyes:
 
#66 ·
GT4 - Will be in 480i, and will have 5 channel Pro-Logic II. It has been stated many times that GT4 will NOT have 480p.


PS2 CAN indeed do 720p as well as 1080i. The API that was released by Sony that allowed the PS2 to provide 480p also included code for the PS2 to provide true HD resolutions. HOWEVER, the demands of true HD are a little too much for the PS2, and you will never, ever see a true HD game come out on the PS2.
 
#68 ·
Come on Policy, I'd expect this sort of fanboy-level crap at IGN or GameFAQs, not AVS.


I think ShePearl's explanation is probably correct, or at least very close to it. It's clear that the PS2 can't render GT4, or most games for that maatter, at a true resolution of anywhere near 1920x1080. Obviously Polyphony has pulled a few tricks out of their sleeve... only what I expect from Sony's most capable (and probably best-funded) studio. A few months ago they said that there wouldn't even be a progressive scan mode. I wonder what's changed to accomodate 480p?


I recall an interview where they said that progressive scan wouldn't be compatible with their anti-aliasing trick. So perhaps running the game in progressive scan shuts off that smoothing, resulting in the pretty rough edges we see in the 480p/1080i comparison. The real comparison we need now is a nicely deinterlaced 480i vs the game's 480p.
 
#69 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by eawil
PS2 CAN indeed do 720p as well as 1080i. The API that was released by Sony that allowed the PS2 to provide 480p also included code for the PS2 to provide true HD resolutions. HOWEVER, the demands of true HD are a little too much for the PS2, and you will never, ever see a true HD game come out on the PS2.
Yes, that's correct. But whether PlayStation2 can do 1080i, and/or 720p was never a question here. It can go upto 1080p as well, as long as SDK provides that option.


The question is how practical are those (true) resolutions/options for PS2 ? If you think about the size of framebuffer needed for 1920x1080i resolution to run at 60Hz, it becomes quite clear that PlayStation2 isn't rendering GT4 at 1080i internally. :)
 
#73 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by Joe Redifer
Why would it need to switch back to 480p for the menus? If it does, I sure hope it sends the widescreen flag at the time, because I don't want to keep telling my TV to go to FUL mode everytime it returns to 480p.
I agree, seems rather stupid to me to have the game switching back and forth in resolutions, seems like extra wear and tear to me on my TV trying to keep up with the action. Why can't the whole game be displayed in 1080i, its not like a game menu is more demanding than the actual racing.


Sony is stupid. :mad:
 
#74 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by ShePearl
This 1080i feature in GT4 can be quite misleading to a lot of people. Because the most people believe 1080i = 1920x1080i @ 60Hz/30fps. Hence, this can lead people to believe that PlayStation2 is rendering GT4 at 1920x1080 pixels @ 30fps or 1920x560 pixels @ 60fps.


TV standards (analogue ones in particular) are speced in terms of horizontal and vertical timings and pixel clocks (normally capped by B/W)

It is pretty simple to set the display hardware for a TV standard such as 720p or 1080i (1080 lines consisting of 1920 samples/pixels) but only generate 640 or 960 pixels... the same thing occured with older consoles (eg. 320 pixels for PlayStation1 and Genesis, 256 pixels for SNES )


As people have said before, if you are generating a 640x480 (480p) framebuffer, it isn't much of a step to generate a 640x540 frame buffer to display with 3x horizontal mag as 1080i. And with the help of RAMDAC, final images drawn on your display can get slightly post-processed look.


As many displays dont actually have horizontal resolutions anywhere near 1920 anyway it's a nice added feature for GT4. :) (Well, since 1080i standard is interlaced, it's never possible to achieve the full 1920 samples/pixels of horizontal resolution in theory anyway).


The bottom line is, PlayStation2 is not rendering it at 1080i resolution. No where near close to it.


Exactly!
 
#75 ·
ok so that's the final word then? reports on this topic are all over the place. its like reading about ufo sightings. everybody sees "something" but nobody can agree on what it is they're seeing. Can this damn game display 1080i on an hdtv or not? its a simple question. Sony seem to think they've magically created a game that can. skeptics see otherwise. I am interested in hard facts. if its not true 1080i then 1) what is it that's being displayed, and 2) if its such a neat trick then why isn't everyone doing it so they can call their game 1080i compatible?
 
#76 ·
Quote:
Come on Policy, I'd expect this sort of fanboy-level crap at IGN or GameFAQs, not AVS.
There is no fanboyism here, just facts. Look at the photos, do they lie? Do they not lie.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
Top