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Reference: The Next Generation Consoles thread

25K views 384 replies 65 participants last post by  Q of BanditZ 
#1 ·
I leave it to the mods, if this thread passes muster, to consider a sticky status. Obviously this material can change at any time as we get closer to system launches.


I think the forthcoming E3 is really going to be where we see a lot of light shed, especially on the Xbox 2, since it's probably going to be the first next generation system out of the gate.


I strive to be factual and precise in my language, and not to make unsupported assertions. To that end - and to encourage and aid others on the board to do the same - I am attempting to compile all known information about the next-gen consoles in a single, easily accessible thread.


Information will be split up by platform. Within each platform there will be another split, between facts, speculation, and uncertain.


The "Facts" section will be comprised only of information gleaned from a documented, named, official source. Speculation is self-explanatory. Uncertain is information that I haven't placed yet, probably because my memory is hazy and I need to double-check the statement. Handhelds will not be covered, mostly since they've already been released.


For the moment, I'm not always citing sources, but I'll get to it when I can. A lot of this, I'm counting on people who are already interested in the subject to be familliar enough with the material.


I'm well aware that I'll miss things, quite possibly things that are extremely obvious; if you have information to add, please post it and I'll put it in the main list on the front page. If you have a fact to add, please cite and link a documented, named, official source or general press release.


Sorted by availible information on hand:

ALL CREDIT GOES TO GAMESPOT.COM for this information!



"Xbox 360



Expected launch: November 2005* EB Games and other retailers list materials in the second week of November, but still subject to change.



Microsoft's second-generation video game console features a multicore 3.2GHz IBM PowerPC-based CPU, a custom ATI graphics chip, and multichannel surround sound. The unit has wireless controllers and offers 720p and 1080i support for all games. The system is Wi-Fi ready and has a detachable 20GB hard drive.

Xbox 360 specs:



Controller 2.4GHz Wireless

Weight 7.7 lbs.

Form Factor Console

Dimensions (WxDxH) 12.15 in x 3.27 in x 10.15 in

Graphics Processor and Memory

Embedded Video Memory 10MB

Graphics Processor Custom ATI Processor

Graphics Core Clock Speed 500MHz

System Memory 512MB UMA (Shared with GPU)

Vector Units 1 VMX-128 unit per core (3 total)

CPU Math Performance 9 Billion Dot Product Operations per Second

System Memory Bandwith 22.4GB/s, 256GB/s to EDRAM

Memory Architecture Unified Memory Architecture

Shaders 48-way Parallel Floating Point Dynamically-Scheduled, 48 billion Operations/s

Video Memory 512MB UMA (Shared with CPU)

Fill Rate (pixels) 16 Gigasamples/s using 4X MSAA

Fill Rate (triangles) 500 Million/s

Product Identification

Manufacturer Microsoft

Product Line Microsoft Xbox 360

Video Output

Resolution 480p, 480i, 720p, 1080i

Expansion and Connectivity

Digital Media Formats DVD-Video, DVD-ROM, DVD-R/RW, DVD+R/RW, CD-DA, CD-ROM, CD-R, CD-RW, WMA CD, MP3 CD, JPEG Photo CD

Game Media Format Dual-Layer DVD-ROM

Other I/O Connectors 3 USB 2.0, 2 Memory Slots, Ethernet Port (RJ45)

Controller Ports Supports up to 4 Controllers


Plug and Play Storage 20GB Removable Hard Drive

Standard AV Output Connectors n/a

Integrated Communications 802.11 A/B/G Wi-Fi ready, adapter not included

Processor

Processor Core Spec 3 Cores, 2 hardware threads per core

Marketing Performance Measurement 1 TFLOP

Processor Clock Speed 3.2GHz

L2 Cache 1MB

Processor Custom IBM PowerPC CPU

Integrated Devices

Built-in Features Backward Compatible with Xbox (limited), Stands Vertically or Horizontally, Interchangable Face Plates, Xbox Live Service, Media Center Extender



Nintendo Revolution


Nintendo Revolution specs:


Expected launch: Q2, Q3 2006.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nintendo
By Nintendo


We're throwing open the doors of gaming to wider audiences, from casual players to hard-core gamers who live for the thrill of defeating an endless army of wireless opponents.


General

Controller Wireless

Form Factor Game console

Flash Memory 512MB (SD Card Expandable)

Graphics Processor and Memory

Graphics Processor ATI "Hollywood" GPU

Product Identification

Manufacturer Nintendo

Product Line Nintendo Revolution

Expansion and Connectivity

Game Media Format 12-centimeter optical discs

Other I/O Connectors 2 x USB 2.0, SD Card Slot

Processor

Processor IBM "Broadway" CPU

Integrated Devices

Built-in Features Stands Vertically or Horizontally, Backwards Compatible, Downloadable Games

Storage

Media Drive 12-centimeter optical discs , 3" disc, 1.5GB, Matsushita

* Expected to be able to play all of Nintendo gaming library from the past via Internet connection.


Sony PlayStation 3



Expected launch: Spring 2006.


The PlayStation 3 will sport some hefty multimedia features, such as video chat, internet access, digital photo viewing, digital audio and video. Sony Computer Entertainment head Ken Kutaragi introduced it as a "Super computer for computer entertainment."




General

Controller Bluetooth Wireless

Form Factor Console

Graphics Processor and Memory

Embedded Video Memory 0MB

Graphics Processor RSX "Reality Synthesizer"

Graphics Core Clock Speed 550MHz

System Memory 256MB XDR

Vector Units 1 VMX vector unit per core

System Memory Bandwith 22.4GB/s, RSX 20GB/s (write)/15GB/s (read), SB 2.5GB/s (write)/ 2.5GB/s (read)

Shaders 100 Billion Shader Operations/s

Video Memory 256MB

Product Identification

Manufacturer Sony

Product Line Sony PlayStation 3

Video Output

Resolution 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p


Digital Media Formats Compatible with CR-ROM, CDR+W, DVD, DVD-ROM, DVD-R, DVD+R

Game Media Format Blu-ray BD-ROM

Other I/O Connectors Ethernet (RJ45), 6 USB 2.0, CF Slot (Type I, II), SD Slot (Regular, Compact), Memory Stick, Memory Stick Duo, 1 x Optical Audio

Controller Ports Supports up to 7 Bluetooth Controllers

Plug and Play Storage 2.5in Removable Hard Drive (Unkown Size)

Standard AV Output Connectors 2 x HDMI, 1 x AV

Integrated Communications 802.11 B/G Wi-Fi, Bluetooth 2.0

Processor

Processor Core Spec 1 Core, 7 x SPE 3.2GHz (256KB SRAM per SPE), 7 x 128b 128 SIMD GPRs

Marketing Performance Measurement 2.18 TFLOPs

Processor Clock Speed 3.2GHz

L2 Cache 512KB L2 cache, 256KB per SPE

Processor Cell processor

Integrated Devices

Built-in Features Backward Compatible with PlayStation 2, Stands Vertically or Horizontally

System Memory

Memory Bandwidth 25.6GB/s main memory bandwidth, 22.4GB/s video memory bandwidth

Storage

Media Drive Blue-Ray BD-ROM

Audio

Surround Sound Multichannel Output (software driven)"


-Courtesy of Gamespot.com
 
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#54 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by 4K display
Yet another concept image of the PlayStation 3
http://gamepro.com/sony/ps2/games/news/43608.shtml
Unlike the other stuff that has come out on the PS3 / Xbox 360, this one actually looks legit. I wouldn't be surprised at all if that's the actual prototype. It doesn't need to be big when you have wireless controllers, and memory sticks. :)
 
#56 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by 4K display
Yet another concept image of the PlayStation 3
http://gamepro.com/sony/ps2/games/news/43608.shtml


Not sure what to make of this design if true/final, looks like a jumbo Cybershot camera...and a UMD drive? If Sony ships this unit under $500 I will be amazed.

I certainly like the slot-loading idea, and it's the first time I've seen an actual Bluraydisc logo on a concept design.
I'm very skeptical of this being legit. also with the front being as thick and flat as it is, I wonder why all the logo's would be on top.
 
#57 ·
 Xbox 360: multiple versions planned, WebTV to ship on premium edition?


Some interesting tidbits:
Quote:
. . . The site reports that the basic edition of Xbox 360 - the version without the hard drive - will not have backwards compatibility, while the "premium" version with the hard drive will ship with Microsoft's WebTV functionality built-in. . .
Which begs the question: Will the “premium†version be backwards compatible?
Quote:
A major question mark over the possibility of a the two-tier Xbox launch, however, lies with the question of customised content - one of J Allard's most vaunted goals for the new system - and how that would tie in with a low-end Xbox 360 without a mass storage device. One part of the answer to that question is the inclusion of a high-capacity solid state memory device with the system, which wouldn't be large enough to store music or movies in any significant volume - or to act as a cache for Xbox games, as the existing Xbox' hard drive does - but would be able to act as a cache customised game assets.

Indeed, last year Israeli flash memory specialist M-Systems confirmed that it is working on a memory solution for Xbox 2, with CEO Dov Moran stating that "when users want to save their e-mail messages, copy music, or anything like that, the only storage they’ll have is what we give them."
Interesting. . .
Quote:
Another part of the answer to that question may come from Kotaku's sources, who indicated to the site that around 80 per cent of the systems produced for launch would be the "premium" version - suggesting that the lower-end model is, more than anything else, a concession to launching a competitively priced "games only" system.
80% expected to buy the premium version. VERY interesting. . .
Quote:
Sony is also widely expected to launch multiple versions of the PlayStation 3 console, which is due to arrive in 2006, with both "home media server" and stripped down "basic console" versions believed to be on the cards.
Hadn’t heard this before either.
 
#58 ·
A little Nintendo Revolution info:


BROADCOM ANNOUNCES PARTNERSHIP WITH NINTENDO TO ENABLE NEXT GENERATION WIRELESS GAMING CONSOLES


Broadcom's Unique Technology Portfolio and Highly Integrated Features Provide a New and Exciting Gaming Experience




IRVINE, Calif. April 19, 2005 Broadcom Corporation (Nasdaq: BRCM), a global leader in wired and wireless broadband communications semiconductors, today announced a strategic partnership to provide wireless technology for Nintendo's next generation gaming systems. Broadcom's diverse portfolio of technology solutions will enable Nintendo to add cutting-edge wireless features and connectivity to its popular line of gaming consoles. Nintendo's next generation console (codenamed "Revolution") will feature an advanced wireless platform that integrates multiple technologies to enable a new and exciting gaming experience.


"The depth and breadth of Broadcom's wireless expertise will enable Nintendo to deliver the industry's most innovative gaming solutions," said Genyo Takeda, Senior Managing Director, General Manager, Integrated Research & Development Division for Nintendo. "By integrating Broadcom® wireless solutions into our next-generation systems, we can provide the high performance gaming and connectivity capabilities that will delight users of 'Revolution'."


Consumer electronics leaders are aggressively including wireless technologies in new devices to enhance user experience, expanding the applications for wireless technologies. Broadcom is a leading supplier of system-on-a-chip and software solutions that enable manufacturers to eliminate wires in such popular consumer products as notebook computers, phones, routers, printers, audio headphones, keyboard and mouse peripherals, cellular headsets, PDAs, and other devices.


"Broadcom is pleased to partner with technology leader Nintendo, whose visionary commitment to the user experience has inspired new uses for established wireless technology," said Robert A. Rango, Group Vice President of Broadcom's Mobile & Wireless Group. "With the broadest portfolio of maximum performance wireless solutions, we can provide all the connectivity pieces and advanced features required for exciting new consumer products."


Broadcom's wireless products lead the industry with unique features that provide significant performance and ease-of-use advantages. These include BroadRange? technology which extends the range of Wi-Fi devices by up to 50%, and SecureEasySetup? software which dramatically simplifies Wi-Fi setup and security. Differentiated features like these enable an extraordinary user experience for consumer devices, such as the Nintendo gaming device.


"The digital home of the future will increasingly include wireless technologies for their ease of use and consumer convenience," said Brian O'Rourke, Senior Analyst for In-Stat. "Integrated wireless technology from proven vendors like Broadcom will enhance the gaming experience for the vast majority of next-generation gamers, whether competing against someone in the same room or on the other side of the world."


Broad expertise in both wireless and wired technologies makes Broadcom a unique partner for electronics OEMs who wish to incorporate communications functionality into their products. With solutions that deliver superior performance and ease of use features that make end-products increasingly attractive to end users, Broadcom has emerged as a key partner for a broad range of consumer electronics manufacturers. Broadcom products continue to gain momentum in the home, enabling digital television, broadband Internet access and wireless networking that remain easy to use, while providing the best performance in the industry.


According to market share results from Forward Concepts, Broadcom's 54g? chipsets are the industry's leading Wi-Fi solutions. Additionally, Broadcom is a leader in the Bluetooth® market featuring high performance Blutonium® chips and the industry's most widely deployed Bluetooth software. Broadcom also offers advanced processors for cellular handset and data card applications supporting 3G EDGE and WCDMA networks, as well as high performance mobile multimedia processors.


About Broadcom

Broadcom Corporation is a global leader in wired and wireless broadband communications semiconductors. Our products enable the convergence of high-speed data, high definition video, voice and audio at home, in the office and on the go. Broadcom provides manufacturers of computing and networking equipment, digital entertainment and broadband access products, and mobile devices with the industry's broadest portfolio of state-of-the-art system-on-a-chip and software solutions. These solutions support our core mission: Connecting everything®.


Broadcom is one of the world's largest fabless semiconductor companies, with annual revenue of more than $2 billion. The company is headquartered in Irvine, Calif., with offices and research facilities in North America, Asia and Europe. Broadcom may be contacted at 1-949-450-8700 or at www.broadcom.com.
 
#60 ·
 Sony, Toshiba Discussing DVD Standard-Source

So what happens with PS3 if they do come to an agreement? The big incentive to Sony for including a BluRay drive in PS3 was to get an edge in the installed base of BluRay vs. HD-DVD. If there is no format war, why take huge losses on PS3 hardware sales AND cannibalize sales of standalone BluRay DVD players?

Also if this supposed compromise drags along, it could delay the launch of PS3.
 
#61 ·
that is not 100% true, I am sure that was part of it but don't forget BR had some advantages to bring to the gaming world as well. 2G players (BR/HD-DVD) have much larger capacity, so games have room to grow over the life of the product, but even more importantly they can reach much higher bitrates, so games can load faster and stream better. My theory is that Sony would have not added BR if it was only for video. It is also why some of the BR companies are game developers



My idea of the future is sports games where you are actually the athlete, imagine playing a game where instead of drawings of the athletes you have actual HD versions of them. Where instead of drawings of known places it is actual HD versions of filmed background of the place,for instance imagine real HD video that is manipulated when driving an F1 car in a race, skateboarding in TH, or running with Lara around the world.


Maybe I am insane, but those are a few ideas that I think going with a new disk format might bring
 
#62 ·
Quote:
that is not 100% true, I am sure that was part of it but don't forget BR had some advantages to bring to the gaming world as well. 2G players (BR/HD-DVD) have much larger capacity, so games have room to grow over the life of the product, but even more importantly they can reach much higher bitrates, so games can load faster and stream better. My theory is that Sony would have not added BR if it was only for video. It is also why some of the BR companies are game developers
Sure, there are some benefits to BR for gaming but it certainly doesn't offer the same 'bang for the buck' as some other items. For example, using the $$$ that a BR drive would cost could be applied toward more RAM or a better GPU which would offer much bigger benefits to games than the BR drive.
Quote:
My idea of the future is sports games where you are actually the athlete, imagine playing a game where instead of drawings of the athletes you have actual HD versions of them. Where instead of drawings of known places it is actual HD versions of filmed background of the place,for instance imagine real HD video that is manipulated when driving an F1 car in a race, skateboarding in TH, or running with Lara around the world.
You're in luck! I have a pristine 3DO system I will sell you for slightly less than one of the new systems would cost you! ;)

Only kidding. What you describe is the exact dream that 3DO had. The implementation, however, was horrid. Some games had 'decision trees' where, depending on which way you moved the controller, you saw one of two video outcomes. Other games had endless video cutscenes always interrupting game play. I just don't see anyone making entertaining games using video. Especially when the ability to create incredible 3D environments will be at their disposal.
 
#63 ·
Quote:
For example, using the $$$ that a BR drive would cost could be applied toward more RAM or a better GPU which would offer much bigger benefits to games than the BR drive.
admitedly not much is known on the specs, but so far the rest of them don't sound too shabby.

Quote:
You're in luck! I have a pristine 3DO system I will sell you for slightly less than one of the new systems would cost you!

Only kidding. What you describe is the exact dream that 3DO had
like I said, itis my idea of the future. let's face it do you play sports games, have you seen where they have changed. I am a big fan of hockey and have seen it evolve over time. the early games were generick everything, then they added real teams, real players (stats), differentiating face, realistic faces. Is it too hard to believe that sooner rather then latter the face on the players will be a HD digitized photo of the player and that it will be realitically manupulated by the PC to add some expression.


I agree you need more processing power and memmory on the device to do this but you also need much more memmory and bitrate to do it. And even though a few DVDs might solve the storage problem it will not somlve the bitrate problem
 
#64 ·
Quote:
like I said, itis my idea of the future. let's face it do you play sports games, have you seen where they have changed. I am a big fan of hockey and have seen it evolve over time. the early games were generick everything, then they added real teams, real players (stats), differentiating face, realistic faces. Is it too hard to believe that sooner rather then latter the face on the players will be a HD digitized photo of the player and that it will be realitically manupulated by the PC to add some expression.


I agree you need more processing power and memmory on the device to do this but you also need much more memmory and bitrate to do it. And even though a few DVDs might solve the storage problem it will not somlve the bitrate problem
If Sony wants to give us a BluRay drive for free I'm all for it. I'm just wondering out loud if it is still in their best interests to do so. I'm with you on wanting more realistic games but we'll just have to agree to disagree on the best way to accomplish this in the next gen consoles. In the end, I'm confident PS3 and XBOX360 (and probably Revolution) will all be amazing consoles. Can't wait to get the details. . .
 
#65 ·
Quote:
I'm confident PS3 and XBOX360 (and probably Revolution) will all be amazing consoles. Can't wait to get the details
agree,


my point was based more on the fact that a platform should last a few years, how many years has the Xbox, PS2 been out? around 10? assuming the next generation lasts as long what will the games at the end of the term need?
 
#68 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyP
agree,


my point was based more on the fact that a platform should last a few years, how many years has the Xbox, PS2 been out? around 10? assuming the next generation lasts as long what will the games at the end of the term need?
First Xbox was November 15th 2001

First PS2 was March 4th 2000
 
#70 ·
Not sure if this has already been posted but I found this on Team Xecuter's site (they are probably the largest of the mod chip/bios coding groups for the xbox mod scene):

http://www.teamxecuter.com/index.php...rticle&sid=160


"We've spent today doing a little more digging. It seems the Xbox 360 will use AES Encryption (XeCryptAesCbc), executable files are XEX and not XBE (xshell.xex) and after studying the kernel there is everything in place for backwards compatibility.


It can all change of course but interesting all the same."
 
#73 ·
The Xbox 360 is definitely confirmed to have 512MB of RAM, which is outstanding considering it's not a PC running an OS and tons of applications. 512 MB of RAM even on a PC is still considered more than sufficient, even for the most high end games like Doom 3 and Half Life 2.


It's going to be a long time before we see games that tax 512 MB of RAM on ANY platform.
 
#74 ·
Quote:
The Xbox 360 is definitely confirmed to have 512MB of RAM, which is outstanding considering it's not a PC running an OS and tons of applications. 512 MB of RAM even on a PC is still considered more than sufficient, even for the most high end games like Doom 3 and Half Life 2.


It's going to be a long time before we see games that tax 512 MB of RAM on ANY platform.
Sweeeet!:) Where did you see confirmation of this?

If true, this is going to place still more pricing pressure on Sony with PS3. They will almost certainly have to match MS and go with 512mb.
 
#75 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by RobHT
Sweeeet!:) Where did you see confirmation of this?

If true, this is going to place still more pricing pressure on Sony with PS3. They will almost certainly have to match MS and go with 512mb.
http://www.teamxecuter.com/index.php...rticle&sid=156


Afraid I have to classify it under rumor still. I could have SWORN this had been confirmed. I feel terrible about this.


I guess some of us had read some of these other links and kept seeing comments like "Very likely" and "Why not go to 512?" and just kind of bit on it too much. My miistake!


It's still listed at 256 right now, but RUMOR has it that it's still VERY likely to be put at 512. I really hope they do it.


Sorry for that misunderstanding. I've updated the original post of this thread accordingly.
 
#76 ·
I haven't read through all of this thread but has anybody considered how much money Sony and Microsoft are willing to lose with each console. They will essentially be dumping the hardware. Originally Sony lost money with each PS2 sold. So did Microsoft.


I'm willing to bet that Microsoft is willing to lose alot with each xbox2. Much more than Sony. Microsoft in my opinion will put out the best hardware. They will lose as much as they have to bury their competition.
 
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