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post #91 of 257 Old 02-05-2010, 02:11 PM - Thread Starter
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I would agree with the not wanting sooner than later except for the fact that this is not soon at all as they have been developing it for over 4 years I believe. So it would be 4-5 years development by the time it's released. That's a long time! When they just polish past versions they usually release them within 2 years.

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post #92 of 257 Old 02-09-2010, 10:39 AM
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You know, for all this talk of voice acting, I realized that half the time, I'm so impatient that I just read the subtitles and skip to the next line anyway. It's giving me slight issues in Mass Effect 2 because I end up skipping too far sometimes.

But yeah, I guess I don't mind the text in games as much as I thought.

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post #93 of 257 Old 02-10-2010, 08:14 PM
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I know this isn't exactly the place for it, but...I just started playing Zelda 1 for the first time ever. (I've had the GC Zelda Collection disc for years but never got around to it.) And basically I am just posting to say: "Man, this **** is hard."

It's so weird to go from modern handholding Zeldas to seeing just how little help or even direction they gave you in the original. I beat the first dungeon (which actually turned out to be the second dungeon) without ever finding the dungeon item and it's only due to experience with later games that I figured I'd better go back in and find it. Then after an hour of wandering I found myself in Dungeon 6 by accident, and was IMMEDIATELY killed by Wizzrobes. I went back in there and died immediately again at least a half-dozen times because I simply couldn't wrap my mind around a rank-and-file Zelda enemy taking off four hearts with one attack and honestly thought it might be some kind of glitch. I mean, in current Zeldas it's rare to ever lose a whole heart from a boss attack, let alone some random enemy.

Anyway. For my money, Zelda 1 is a little too hard. I mean, no modern game should necessitate bombing random walls and burning random bushes just to find a dungeon. But surely there must be some kind of happy medium that restores some decent difficulty, nonlinearity, and sense of discovery to the series. It's weird that going back and finally playing the first game is the freshest the series has felt for me in a long while.
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post #94 of 257 Old 02-10-2010, 08:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Ha yeah it's so easy to die in dungeon 6.

I played all of the zeldas not long after release dates, so I did play them all in order, but whatever order you play them in those 2 NES zeldas sure are the most difficult.

I liked that you could go in dungons out of order, but then again it's bad in a way too.

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post #95 of 257 Old 02-11-2010, 08:14 AM
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If you think the original Zelda was tough, wait until you play the second. Tough and...not so good

The first one is classic though. Older games were hard, since difficulty was really the only way to extend the gameplay time. Heck, even going back to playing SMB for the first time in forever on the Virtual Console, I was struck at how freakin' tough that game was.

That collector's disk is great, even though it is missing the SNES version which is one of the best games of all time. Majora's Mask, which I never played when it first came out, was much better than I'd heard/expected. Or maybe it just seemed better after WindWaker
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post #96 of 257 Old 02-11-2010, 08:21 AM
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It really is strange to play old games, because you forget just how challenging many of them are.

The whole setup of games was just so different from today. SMB was tough, but since they had no save, I played those first few worlds hundreds of times. Back then I could probably do them with my eyes closed. Same goes for Contra and many other games.

Nowadays, I am playing Ninja Gaiden Sigma, and it is tough, but it has a save, so I just have to get through a section once.
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post #97 of 257 Old 02-11-2010, 08:56 AM
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I totally caved and looked up the overworld map on GameFAQs. (Picking up some heart containers and that wonderful blue ring is my way of tempering the crazy difficulty a bit.) Y'know, back in the day I would've loved wandering around for days bombing random walls, or taking hours to learn how to beat just one boss, but as an adult I have little time/patience for it. I suppose this makes me part of the problem. I want games that will take a long time to beat but still allow me to make swift progress through. I hate getting stuck too long on any one part, and if I ever have to replay a section I already beat once, then it's a travesty of the highest order.

It's still insanely fascinating playing through Zelda 1, though. It's weird that certain incidental enemies or certain dungeon rooms can provide such a challenge and the threat of a game over. (I'm probably halfway through, and 23 deaths and counting.) Even stuff like the complete lack of ceremony surrounding bosses and dungeon items is disconcerting. If anything, finally playing this makes me appreciate LttP all the more. I can easily imagine you guys who played the NES Zeldas as kids, popping LttP into the SNES for the first time and thinking, "Now THIS is what they were trying to do." As opposed to me as a kid, being new to the series, merely thinking, "This game is awesome."
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post #98 of 257 Old 02-11-2010, 09:05 AM
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Nowadays you look at GameFAQs, but remember back in the day it was not uncommon for people to DRAW THEIR OWN MAPS ON GRAPH PAPER while they played.

As for replaying parts, I dunno. I am playing Ninja Gaiden Sigma and it took me a good couple of hours to get through Chapter 6, because it throws 3 waves of Black Spider Ninjas at you, then a bunch of stupid dinosaurs, then the boss, between a save. But it was kind of fun because the action is so good and intense and really all it was doing was "training" me to win. After all, a skilled player doesn't get a scratch at Black Spider Ninjas on normal, and the stupid dinosaurs end up becoming a regular enemy anyway.

I get annoyed when I have to replay sections of most games, but I think that's because most games really don't do difficulty right, so the section is just cheap and annoying, and the game is bad overall but for some reason I am still playing it. Like Call of Duty World at War.
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post #99 of 257 Old 02-11-2010, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisOneKidMongo View Post

If anything, finally playing this makes me appreciate LttP all the more. I can easily imagine you guys who played the NES Zeldas as kids, popping LttP into the SNES for the first time and thinking, "Now THIS is what they were trying to do." As opposed to me as a kid, being new to the series, merely thinking, "This game is awesome."

Absolutely, there is a reason that people over 30 hold that game in such high regard. There's been surprisingly little variation to the Zelda format since that game, aside from the obvious switch to 3D. The inventory system, character interaction, fetch questing, and even the mirrored worlds concepts, were so well executed in that game there's been little reason to tweak them for 20 years.

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Nowadays you look at GameFAQs, but remember back in the day it was not uncommon for people to DRAW THEIR OWN MAPS ON GRAPH PAPER while they played.

Thank god I wasn't the only one. I'm in my early 30s and I sometimes forget how tough we had it back pre-internet. We had to carry our bits on floppy disks, uphill, in the snow. GameFAQs, HAH! The hardcore had graph paper, and the rich posers had Nintendo Power and those ripoff 900 numbers. Don't get me started on how tough it was to get porn back then...

Now get off my lawn!
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post #100 of 257 Old 02-11-2010, 09:22 AM
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I think up until... 1995 or so, Nintendo's tip line was a 1-800 number! So you could call and get help. I did that once or twice. Of course all the other ones were 1-900.
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post #101 of 257 Old 02-11-2010, 09:36 AM
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I called a tip line once for a Lolo level.

And yes...old school Zelda = HARD!

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post #102 of 257 Old 02-11-2010, 11:16 AM
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Man, I love the Legend of Zelda! I play through it once or twice a year and I know where everything is like the back of my hand. I usually beat level one, get the candle and the blue ring, grab all of the accessible heart containers, and get the white sword. Then I go to level eight and get the magic key. Makes the rest of the game a breeze.

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post #103 of 257 Old 02-11-2010, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by number1laing View Post

Nowadays you look at GameFAQs, but remember back in the day it was not uncommon for people to DRAW THEIR OWN MAPS ON GRAPH PAPER while they played.

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Thank god I wasn't the only one. I'm in my early 30s and I sometimes forget how tough we had it back pre-internet.

Wow, that brings back the memories! When I craingslistesd my old gameboy games last year I found hand-drawn maps for Metroid II and Dr. Franken from my 12 year old self... I'd honestly think I'd be a different person if I hadn't spent hours looking for every nuance and charting it. Had there been easily available cheats and internet walkthroughs back then I'd be even less focused than I am now

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post #104 of 257 Old 02-11-2010, 06:54 PM - Thread Starter
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I agree that AoL is very hard, but I disagree that it's bad. In my opinion it's fun and I loved it when it was released and still do. They need some of those RPG elements added back also. In some way, anyway.

I called their tip line once for a question about alltp. For the first two zeldas I got help somehow, but don't remember how. Maybe it had tips in nintendo power or maybe some friend told me something. I forget.

I liked a link to the past a lot, but I'm not on the lttp is the greatest zelda game bandwagon. I'm on the OoT bandwagon though rather than picking some underdog one such as adventure of link. lol

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post #105 of 257 Old 02-12-2010, 06:49 AM
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I'm on the OoT bandwagon though rather than picking some underdog one such as adventure of link. lol

Tough to argue OoT vs. ALTTP either way. I give the edge to ALTTP, but that is just nostalgia talking. If you plop a Zelda virgin from today down in front of both games, I can't see why they wouldn't vote for Ocarina of Time.

AoL maybe wasn't bad...but (confession) I never actually owned an original NES and always played at my neighbor's growing up, so I never was able to put in the time to get anywhere in that game. I've since tried playing it through a few times on the Zelda Collection GC disc or through PC emulation and found it to be an extraordinarily frustrating experience. Maybe 10 year old me would've had the reflexes or patience to figure it out. Zelda I and ALTTP are both much more accessible, in my opinion. But you've got to give credit to Nintendo for trying something different with the side-scrolling elements.
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post #106 of 257 Old 02-12-2010, 07:03 AM
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I still say the best one is Link's Awakening.
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post #107 of 257 Old 02-12-2010, 03:02 PM
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I still say the best one is Link's Awakening.

That's not my #1, but it's definitely up there with the best.

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post #108 of 257 Old 02-12-2010, 05:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Tough to argue OoT vs. ALTTP either way. I give the edge to ALTTP, but that is just nostalgia talking. If you plop a Zelda virgin from today down in front of both games, I can't see why they wouldn't vote for Ocarina of Time.

AoL maybe wasn't bad...but (confession) I never actually owned an original NES and always played at my neighbor's growing up, so I never was able to put in the time to get anywhere in that game. I've since tried playing it through a few times on the Zelda Collection GC disc or through PC emulation and found it to be an extraordinarily frustrating experience. Maybe 10 year old me would've had the reflexes or patience to figure it out. Zelda I and ALTTP are both much more accessible, in my opinion. But you've got to give credit to Nintendo for trying something different with the side-scrolling elements.

I don't know why I don't put ALLTP closer to the top than I do. When first playing it I was amazed and had a lot of fun as a kid. But I guess with OOT I just fell so much for the 3D style that I couldn't quite consider 2D ones on the same level anymore. Oddly when I first bought OOT it made me sick due to all the motion and my vision, so I actually returned the entire GC and OoT (they let me for some reason). But then a week later I just had to buy it all back because I couldn't stand that I was missing a zelda game. Then they no longer had gold editions for some reason so I got stuck with the other wheras the week prior it was the gold.

But anyway I got adjusted to the motion and then the story and puzzles pulled me in.

As far as link's awakening I tried playing the GC zeldas on GC via game boy player and liked them, but got stuck and plus just still couldn't consider them as good except the minish cap I finished and loved.

With adventure of link... I played it through again a few years ago and it was very fun. I had forgotten some things though. But anyway I liked it being difficult to defeat enemies.

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post #109 of 257 Old 02-13-2010, 06:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Yahoo was talking about text heavy games andit reminded me that what shouldn't be text is the TUTORIALS. For those they should have someone talk maybe where you don't have to read boring stuff. And have less tutorials.

See all you lazy people who don't read the manual before playing caused Nintendo to force those who have t go through tutorials.

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post #110 of 257 Old 02-17-2010, 12:52 PM
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Man all this talk about The original Zelda reminds me of the 45 minutes + I sat on the 1800-Help line with Nintendo trying to beat the final dungeon in the second quest. That dungeon is BRUTAL.

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post #111 of 257 Old 02-17-2010, 01:36 PM
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See all you lazy people who don't read the manual before playing caused Nintendo to force those who have t go through tutorials.

Manuals suck nowadays. I don't know why they bother including most of them.

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post #112 of 257 Old 02-17-2010, 01:49 PM - Thread Starter
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yeah most do. Especially sports game ones though. They'll have like literally 4 pages in some of them. lol

As far as the LoZ second quest I can't remember if I ever finished it as a kid, but a few years ago I did it. I've already forgotten if it took me long or if I had problems with it. I do remember the last dungeon on adventure of link was confusing and somehow I got through that too though.

I hate using guides or help and what's annoying is I end up being forced to use them in the 3D zelda games in the most stupid places. The easy places. I overlook the obvious too often.

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post #113 of 257 Old 02-17-2010, 03:43 PM
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Manuals suck nowadays. I don't know why they bother including most of them.

TvC's manual is pretty informative & well-stocked w/ game info, although they did not include the combos for any unlockable characters - gotta figure those out for yourself (or do a Google search). MP Trilogy actually had a manual that was both full of info & lots of color - and printed on better than normal paper stock - actually a nice looking booklet.

Howver, I agre that most are more annoyance than necessity - most of the manual for COD: MW Reflex is "available online", as opposed to the skimpy & barely serviceable one included in the game box.

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post #114 of 257 Old 02-18-2010, 07:08 AM
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I had used a players guide for most Zelda's with exception to a Link to the Past (no idea how I did it as a kid) and Twilight Princess. Although I did get stumped on the sky temple, I couldn't figure out how to shoot the ball in the center of the main room to gain access to the boss... Grrrrrrr....

If you want a good challenge, play Ocarina of Time Master Quest without a guide. Have a good time trying to get the Lens of Truth....

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post #115 of 257 Old 02-18-2010, 07:54 AM - Thread Starter
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I THINK I got through Master Quest without a guide, but now I can't remember for sure if I used one or not. Actually seems like I used it for a part that was the same in both OoT games because I forgot part of the sequence to get into one of the temples. Very lame to need one for a part you've already done in the past. Seems like that was it... or maybe I used one other. I can't remember.

In lttp I called Nintendo and asked about 1 part.

For TP I used a guide twice, I think, and one of the times was due to me accidentally not noticing what was said by midna and it was text that went away on its own rather than by button press and I could never get it repeated!

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post #116 of 257 Old 02-18-2010, 09:16 AM
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Beat Zelda 1 over the weekend. Man, later dungeons are just MEAN. Nearly a dozen blue darknuts by themselves is a challenge, but then they have to throw in those fireball-spitting statues or sword-disabling orbs? Bleah. Ganon was surprisingly easy though--I didn't even need a potion. Weird how easy the bosses can be in this game when the rest of it can be so hard.

Also funny how Shigeru Miyamoto is credited as "S. Miyahon" in the credits. Man, they couldn't translate anything right back then.

I've also started Zelda 2 and maaaaaan, I'm not sure I'm going to make it very far. Or that I even want to try--this one is maybe even harder but with none of the fun. Link has the world's shortest sword and extra lives in a Zelda game make me frown. More importantly, it just doesn't feel like Zelda. If you told me this was a Super Mario Bros. 2 USA type situation where they took a completely unrelated game and shoehorned a preexisting Nintendo franchise into it, I'd believe you. Except Mario 2 was actually fun.
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post #117 of 257 Old 02-18-2010, 09:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Zelda 2 is fun. It's just different. The dungeons are fun and finding items is fun. Plus the first zelda game to have true towns in it.

Are you not going to play quest 2 in the original LoZ? Also AoL has 2 quests technically, but no changes as far as dungeons and whatnot.

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post #118 of 257 Old 02-18-2010, 10:06 AM
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Zelda 2 has even more obscure challenges than the original Zelda. There's a mirror hidden under a table or bed somewhere that you have to kneel and stab to pick up. Try finding that on your own as a kid (pre-internet; thank God for Nintendo Power)! The last level has a spot where you need to down-stab a block and fall through the floor to find the last boss. Yeah, the original Zelda's didn't have much hand holding going on, which really upped the challenges.

However, I think the award for game with the most obscure puzzles ever goes to Simon's Quest...

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post #119 of 257 Old 02-18-2010, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
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Also funny how Shigeru Miyamoto is credited as "S. Miyahon" in the credits. Man, they couldn't translate anything right back then.

All of your translate are belong to us!




now back to your regularly scheduled thread, already in progress.

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post #120 of 257 Old 02-18-2010, 11:39 AM
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Never beat Zelda 2.... I should put that on my "Games to Beat List"

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