Nintendo patents Wii hard drive - AVS Forum
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Old 07-03-2010, 12:11 AM - Thread Starter
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http://www.siliconera.com/2010/07/02...-drive-system/

Could be a consumer product, may be for retail displays & whatnot only - either way, this is an official Nintendo built version of what some homebrewers have been doing for a while.

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Old 07-03-2010, 03:45 PM
 
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Coo, but it won't be for consumer use. If Nintendo releases an additional storage solution, it would be in the form of a USB attached flash storage device. Large chunks of flash are dirt cheap, and far more flexible in price point availability.
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Old 07-03-2010, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Some on the site that posted this initially say they already have this - at the Nintendo World Store in NY. They use them on display Wiis in store. Someone else mentioned either Make A Wish or Ronald McDonald House has them as well - they're usually loaded up w/ a bunch of 1st party titles for use by those organizations.

The patent is likely for that, I assume - not a commercially released one. Would be cool, though.

Considering Iwata's recent comments that he's dissatisfied w/ Wii's current online setup & that they seem to want to milk Wii for as long as possible, I wonder if some storage expansion & a WFC beef-up is in the works? One can hope.

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Old 07-03-2010, 09:50 PM
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Seriously, if I could get away from the disc-swapping dance, I'd be a very happy man. This single game, disc-based, eject/insert process is decades behind the times, and it inhibits the Wii experience. It's inelegant and cumbersome. It's anachronistic. It's why I'm starting to do more gaming on my iPad than on the Wii.

I've got dozens of games on the iPad that are only a click away. On the Wii, I gotta shut down the game, eject the disc, insert another disc, wait for it to load, click it on the menu, wait for it to load, go through opening screens and set up--I mean really, is all this necessary?

I'm hoping someone comes up with a Wii simulator for iPad.

Hello, it's 1990 calling: Get with the times!

Hope Ninty figures something out before the only reason I go to the Wii anymore is to see my Mii.

What I can afford, when I can afford it...
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Old 07-03-2010, 11:42 PM
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Might as well get used to it. Like darklordjames said, Nintendo isn't going to be releasing a hard drive that you can install your disc games to.

And any method of expanding the Wii's memory, including SD storage and any new official methods they may introduce, isn't going to allow you to install your software to it and play without having the disc in the drive anyways. Neither does the 360 or PS3 for obvious piracy reasons.

If you hate needing a disc in your drive, softmod your console and place the games you own on a USB memory stick.
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Old 07-05-2010, 12:01 AM
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Nintendo is missing the boat so bad its just plain ridiculous. The one good thing they figured out is how to stream netflix to the wii, other than that they are only worried about how the controls work on cheesy side games. The sad thing is that hackers are actually unlocking the potential of the wii, and instead of nintendo learning from them, they just try to stop everything.

Start rant.
I bought a wii because I enjoyed the controllers and being able to actually move you body, instead of just your thumbs. A friend then showed me (before most VC games) that I could play nintendo and super nintendo games by adding a program onto my wii. I have so many old games that I thought were lost when blowing on my games quit working, that I couldn't believe I could play them on the wii. Nintendo has now (according to wikipedia) released 88 original games, which they feel are what people want, but they have missed so many classics its sickening. Why don't they offer ALL the games, the hackers can do it, why can't Nintendo figure it out.

I can also watch DVD's through my wii (which I could do on my playstation2 like 10 years ago), but for some reason Nintendo doesn't like this. Now Nintendo is purposely putting drives in the wii that will not allow u to watch DVD's. Are they retarded, they should make the wii multi-use, so even more people would by them.

The online for the wii is like when I first got into the internet 15 years ago. No voice support for multiplayer games is the stupidest thing I have ever seen. I have to use skype on my laptop while playing COD with friends. I have to call my friends and get a friend code for every different game so we can play together.

If I was president of Nintendo I would be looking closely at what the hackers are doing to wii, and figure out how to use it to make money. A lot of the things are simple but fun. Why put money into blocking it when you could use it as a simple way to make money. Someone else has already done it for them, just copy it.

Simply put, the controls brought me to wii, the hackers have kept me playing and spending money.
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Old 07-05-2010, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by tank3467 View Post

I have so many old games that I thought were lost when blowing on my games quit working, that I couldn't believe I could play them on the wii.

Dead cartridges are extremely rare. I doubt you have a dead one in the lot. The most they need is a good cleaning. And if it's a NES we're talking about, it's probably time to replace the cartridge connector or at least bend the pins back out. Sadly that component wasn't durable at all, but it's a 10 minute fix.

Out of the hundreds of cartridges I have that date back to 1977, I've had a total of three dead ones. A Atari 2600 Ms. Pac-Man cart that died, a brand new copy of Tempest 2000 for the Jaguar that was dead out of the box, and a used SuperNes cartridge of Urban Strike that was DOA.

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Nintendo has now (according to wikipedia) released 88 original games, which they feel are what people want, but they have missed so many classics its sickening. Why don't they offer ALL the games, the hackers can do it, why can't Nintendo figure it out.

The vast majority of the NES/SuperNes/N64 library isn't theirs to offer. They have no ownership rights or publishing rights to third party titles. I think you'll find that most 1st party titles for all three consoles are available with the remaining Nintendo owned titles slowly making their way out (Mario Tennis 64 this past week for example). There are few remaining 1st party releases not already on there (Pilotwings 64 comes to mind as one that isn't available yet).

All signs point to remaining 1st party titles being made available if there aren't any issues (Like licensing issues in Earthbound and emulation issues with Super FX titles on the SuperNes side like Star Fox and Yoshi's Island).

If you're unhappy that a specific 3rd party title isn't available on the Virtual Console, take it up with the company that controls it. It's out of Nintendo's hands.

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I can also watch DVD's through my wii (which I could do on my playstation2 like 10 years ago), but for some reason Nintendo doesn't like this..

Nintendo knows there is no shortage of DVD players in homes across the world now. Why lower your profit margin (Even if ever so slightly) just to include a ubiquitous feature that is going to be redundant and disused by most owners? That's added a lot of money to Nintendo's bottom line instead of the DVD Forum's income statement.

Even if it's just a dime, they've sold 70 million + Wii's. That's 7 million dollars right there. Development budgets for DS titles are typically from 750,000$-1,500,000$. That decision might've funded seven DS titles right there for Nintendo instead of paying to have a largely unused feature in 70 million Wii's. Or it might've helped fund a Wii project. And I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the DVD Forum fee was a good bit higher then a dime.
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Old 07-05-2010, 01:14 AM
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Dead cartridges are extremely rare. I doubt you have a dead one in the lot. The most they need is a good cleaning. And if it's a NES we're talking about, it's probably time to replace the cartridge connector or at least bend the pins back out. Sadly that component wasn't durable at all, but it's a 10 minute fix.

Out of the hundreds of cartridges I have that date back to 1977, I've had a total of three dead ones. A Atari 2600 Ms. Pac-Man cart that died, a brand new copy of Tempest 2000 for the Jaguar that was dead out of the box, and a used SuperNes cartridge of Urban Strike that was DOA.



The vast majority of the NES/SuperNes/N64 library isn't theirs to offer. They have no ownership rights or publishing rights to third party titles. I think you'll find that most 1st party titles for all three consoles are available with the remaining Nintendo owned titles slowly making their way out (Mario Tennis 64 this past week for example). There are few remaining 1st party releases not already on there (Pilotwings 64 comes to mind as one that isn't available yet).

All signs point to remaining 1st party titles being made available if there aren't any issues (Like licensing issues in Earthbound and emulation issues with Super FX titles on the SuperNes side like Star Fox and Yoshi's Island).

If you're unhappy that a specific 3rd party title isn't available on the Virtual Console, take it up with the company that controls it. It's out of Nintendo's hands.



Nintendo knows there is no shortage of DVD players in homes across the world now. Why lower your profit margin (Even if ever so slightly) just to include a ubiquitous feature that is going to be redundant and disused by most owners? That's added a lot of money to Nintendo's bottom line instead of the DVD Forum's income statement.

Even if it's just a dime, they've sold 70 million + Wii's. That's 7 million dollars right there. Development budgets for DS titles are typically from 750,000$-1,500,000$. That decision might've funded seven DS titles right there for Nintendo instead of paying to have a largely unused feature in 70 million Wii's. Or it might've helped fund a Wii project. And I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the DVD Forum fee was a good bit higher then a dime.


You make a lot of sense, but most people probably don't have a lot of their old consoles sitting around. If they do why would you want to switch them up when the wii is able to run the all the games from the old consoles. I know I got rid of my nintendo when I got a playstation. I used to regret that decision.

I understand that Nintendo doesn't have the rights to all games, but I bet most companies wouldn't mind making some money by selling games that are on consoles that are obsolete. I'm talking about nintendo missing the boat. Profits probably wouldn't be huge but old games are not being produced for old consoles. It's money for games that are already produced and just have to be ported to the wii (which is basically already done). These games are making ZERO money for developers now. They arent selling original nintendo cartridges. But they can split profits on new sales on the wii (if I was president of nintendo). A little money is better than none.

Your also right that most people have a DVD player, but its also nice to be able to shrink systems. The wii could run DVD's, so its one less piece in the mess of home theater.

You also didnt comment on the biggest problem and that is the online gaming for the wii. They don't even patch cheats that ruin online games for the wii. Yes it costs money, but when people realize Nintendo doesn't care they will move to other consoles. Online gaming is HUGE (look at MMORPG), but if you cant talk to friends (wiispeak sucks), cheating is rampant (no updates EVER), you will end up losing.

I'm not even talking about what prices are to develop games. I'm trying to think like if I was president of nintendo and what I could do to make things better.

1. Get or share profits from 3rd party developers. The games are already built, everyone can make money.
2. Online is the future. Make some patches so games don't become unplayable. Mariocart online is full of cheaters, COD world at war was ruined by cheats, and reflex is starting to get the same way.
3. Be able to talk to friends without having to use a separate computer.

I'm not asking for HD on the wii, just control what is in your power. I think Nintendo is missing the boat on a lot of things they could do, that have already been done. Do the simple things while looking to make big improvements.
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Old 07-05-2010, 02:34 AM
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You also didnt comment on the biggest problem and that is the online gaming for the wii.

I just commented on the portions of your message I disagreed with or thought I had something to add to what you said.

I fully agree that Nintendo's online functionality is disappointing and lacking. I also agree that the third party support for the Virtual Console has been disappointing. I'm not sure why it hasn't taken off more, but I suspect it's a combination of how the revenue is divided between Nintendo and the rights holder, the high price points Nintendo sets for titles ($5-$10 is pretty expensive to expect for many classic games beyond those most fondly remembered), and ESRB review fees.

There must simply be too much risk involved with too low of a return on investment for most companies to bother with. Only Sega, Hudson, and D4 (They're the ones publishing NeoGeo software on the VC) have really embraced the program besides Nintendo themselves. Most companies haven't even tested the waters.

I think the review fee for older titles like these are $5,000. Using the NES portion of the service as an example, that means you have to sell 1,000 copies just to cover the ESRB review. That's a lot to expect for much of the NES library. Many titles like Chiller (A port of a coinop from Exidy) would probably never even sell 1,000 copies. And in reality, it's more then 1,000 copies to cover the ESRB review fee. That $5,000 investment needs to make a certain return on investment just to break even. If there's another avenue where capital will yield a higher ROI (Such as going towards development of a current generation title), that game is never going to be submitted for review. That alone is enough to probably kill many potential releases and turn off publishers that have a back catalog of older software that could be rereleased.

I wouldn't hold your breath for any improvement. It's starting to appear that we're down to a title every other week with the program (Used to be common to get a couple of releases every Monday). It seems to be losing whatever steam it ever had.
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Old 07-05-2010, 06:56 AM
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leo aren't you one of the ones who kept telling me I was crazy to think netflix streaming was useless for wii yet you're now saying dvd playback AT ALL is useless?

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Old 07-05-2010, 05:45 PM
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leo aren't you one of the ones who kept telling me I was crazy to think netflix streaming was useless for wii

I've made no comments on Netflix streaming.

My only issues with it is I'm not crazy that it's disc based on the Wii and PS3. But that appears to largely be due to their contract with MS and shouldn't stay that way once the exclusivity contract ends for having an integrated Netflix app. Other then that, I think it's a nice little feature for anyone that has a Netflix account and doesn't own a HD console.

And I never said DVD playback was useless. I was just watching a DVD not more then 5 minutes ago so I of course don't think such a thing. I stand by my point that it's redundant and would go unused in many homes. DVD playback doesn't have the importance it did a decade ago during the last generation when a game console was often the first DVD player a gamer had. Most anyone buying a Wii likely already has at least 1 DVD player already. So I don't think it's important that it's missing and clearly it hasn't mattered to most consumers that are interested in the platform. And it's especially unimportant at a site like AVS to the typical user here when you realize it almost surely wouldn't be anything but 480p enabled.

Virtually every Wii owner has a DVD player already. Not every Wii owner though has a Xbox 360/PS3, a set-top box capable of Netflix streaming, a PC hooked up to their television, or a Blu-Ray player or television with built in Netflix streaming ability. So it's a much more useful and unique feature that also doesn't cost those that don't use it a dime.
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Old 07-05-2010, 09:21 PM
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All the Wii has is dvd quality netflix streaming which anyone can get on any dvd player and people acted like I was so stupid to not agree that it was a useful feature.

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Old 07-06-2010, 12:08 AM
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All the Wii has is dvd quality netflix streaming which anyone can get on any dvd player and people acted like I was so stupid to not agree that it was a useful feature.

The point of Netflix's streaming isn't it's quality, but the quantity of movies and television programs that are available at the press of a button for streaming for a low monthly fee. That it's not really any better then DVD quality (On the Wii I'd say it was actually typically worse then a average DVD) is irrelevent and besides the point. The point of it is the convenience factor, low cost, and quantity of content.

The ability the Wii has at streaming Netflix content to your television is something that is unique in many homes of Wii owners. That can't be said with DVD playback.

Of course I'm not really defending the decision to not include the ability to play DVD video. It's a basic feature in 2010 that is economical to include and the hardware is already capable of doing it. I'm just saying that it's not really missed.
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Old 07-06-2010, 12:24 AM - Thread Starter
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The point of Netflix's streaming isn't it's quality, but the quantity of movies and television programs that are available at the press of a button for streaming for a low monthly fee. That it's not really any better then DVD quality (On the Wii I'd say it was even slightly worse then a decent transfer non tape transfer that was encoded well on a DVD) is irrelevent and besides the point.

The feature the Wii has is something that is unique (The abbility to stream Netflix content to your television) in many homes of Wii owners without adding any cost to those of us that don't care about it. That wouldn't be the case with DVD playback.

Of course I'm not really defending the decision. It's a basic feature in 2010 that is economical to include and the hardware is capable of doing it. I'm just saying that it's not really missed.

Exactly. As mentioned before, DVD capability would have forced an increased price (albeit probably a minute one) and/or cut into Nintendo bottom line. Not gonna happen within a company where profitability is so paramount.

And yes, I have several DVD playback options in my home. But Netflix streaming - primarily via Wii - gets a lot of use.

The wife watched (and I for the last 25 minutes) The Proposal earlier this afternoon. PQ was at best what a letterboxed SD cable/sat signal blown up to fill 16x9 looks like. Not unwatchable, but my wife stated "this sure isn't a Blu-ray, is it?" Later on, we both watched Let The Right One In. For that one, I'd say PQ was damn near DVD quality.

Either way, Netflix is already sending me discs in the mail - why not use the streaming (even if it's "only" DVD quality at best) for no extra fee on a game console connected to my living room TV?.

And as to being disc based - on Wii at least, once the Netflix app is up & running, you can actually eject the disc & keep on streaming away and use every function of the service. The disc is only for booting the service up before use & it does sound like the disc does at least spin while running - so maybe save wear & tear is being saved?

Does go to show that the software on the disc is merely the same as a "Channel" that could have come from Wii Shop. The MS deal simply forced Netflix to offer it via disc to the other 2 consoles. If/when the contact w/ MS ends, it's conceivable that the app could end up a Wii Shop/PSN delivered option.

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Old 07-06-2010, 05:05 AM
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I sure wish I had more electronics which put quantity over quality. Sounds like a good idea.

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Old 07-06-2010, 10:33 AM
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I think the Wii Menu we have now is really weird. It looks like it was made for this kind of setup as opposed to disc-based games.

It seems pretty goofy to have to pop in a game, point to it in the menu, wait for it to load, press start, sit through the credits, then press start again.

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Old 07-29-2010, 09:07 AM
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I know more people with modded HD Wiis than not.

After several disks being scratched by the kids it's the best decision I ever made. No more disks, love it. Modded it, ripped all my games, then sold them which more than paid for the mod. Win.
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Old 07-29-2010, 09:36 AM - Thread Starter
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I know more people with modded HD Wiis than not.

After several disks being scratched by the kids it's the best decision I ever made. No more disks, love it. Modded it, ripped all my games, then sold them which more than paid for the mod. Win.

Question - with this mod, do you have to still be concerned about new games & "scrubbing" those built-in updates? I assume Homebrew Channel is part of this.

Actually, if any "mod" is remotely tempting, it's this one. Just want to avoid the hassle of various HBC stuff that may throw the missus or kids when they want a quick Mario, Boom Blox or Wii Fit fix while I'm not around.

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Old 08-01-2010, 11:54 AM
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Question - with this mod, do you have to still be concerned about new games & "scrubbing" those built-in updates? I assume Homebrew Channel is part of this.

Actually, if any "mod" is remotely tempting, it's this one. Just want to avoid the hassle of various HBC stuff that may throw the missus or kids when they want a quick Mario, Boom Blox or Wii Fit fix while I'm not around.

Yea homebrew and simple ribbon cable connect, no soldering at all. Click on homebrew, then click once to load main game choosing skin. My 5 year old has no trouble with this at all. Works like a charm.
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Old 08-03-2010, 09:35 AM
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People still care about DVD on Wii? When you can buy a DVD player for like $20?

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I understand that Nintendo doesn't have the rights to all games, but I bet most companies wouldn't mind making some money by selling games that are on consoles that are obsolete. I'm talking about nintendo missing the boat.

Why are you still blaming Nintendo? Nintendo has NO SAY in what companies decide to put on VC. Let me say that again: they have NO SAY in what companies decide to put on VC. It is not "Nintendo missing the boat", it is the publishers and/or copyright holders, if those copyright holders can even be tracked down (this is a HUGE problem in the music industry).

I think the VC is excellent overall and think Nintendo has done a superlative job with it. I never would've guessed they would, for example, put Sin & Punishment on the US VC. If you want to compare Nintendo to other companies, look at Microsoft and their embarrassing Game Room.


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2. Online is the future. Make some patches so games don't become unplayable. Mariocart online is full of cheaters, COD world at war was ruined by cheats, and reflex is starting to get the same way.

Wii doesn't work like that. There are no patches and there will be none. The OS and system aren't set up for it. This is why, for example, games that came out before the SD card update can't use SD cards. It's a short-sighted design decision on Nintendo's part but it can't be changed. Hopefully their next system will use a more modern design.
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Old 08-03-2010, 09:45 AM
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Yea homebrew and simple ribbon cable connect, no soldering at all. Click on homebrew, then click once to load main game choosing skin. My 5 year old has no trouble with this at all. Works like a charm.

Any links to a guide? I found one on lifehacker.com but it resembles a similar process that didn't work for me. They say it takes 10 minutes but I spent over an hour with cios, dopmii and all that and got nothing but errors.

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Old 08-03-2010, 10:33 AM - Thread Starter
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People still care about DVD on Wii? When you can buy a DVD player for like $20?

Hell, you can get a BD player w/ network capability for around $100 if you are a smart shopper. Agree on Wii not needing DVD playback when there are std DVD players that would give you a better upconverted picture for close to nothing. IMO, the only current console that really screams to be a movie player is the PS3 & it's near-endlessly updatable BD functions (only BD player AFAIK that can be updated to handle 3D BD).

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2. Online is the future. Make some patches so games don't become unplayable. Mariocart online is full of cheaters, COD world at war was ruined by cheats, and reflex is starting to get the same way.

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Originally Posted by number1laing View Post

Wii doesn't work like that. There are no patches and there will be none. The OS and system aren't set up for it. This is why, for example, games that came out before the SD card update can't use SD cards. It's a short-sighted design decision on Nintendo's part but it can't be changed. Hopefully their next system will use a more modern design.

The only "patches" that could happen - and at least in COD Wii's case, they have - would be online hotfixes. Then again, these seem to be more about dealing w/ online glitches/hiccups than across the board cheater removal. I believe the Wii Madden games have also had similar "patches".

The cheats will be online - on any system. In the case of the Wii, Mk Wii, COD games, etc....if you have cheaters, the only answer is to disconnect & then reconnect again. Won't be cheaters in EVERY match (usually).

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Old 08-03-2010, 02:46 PM
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To comment on the topic of the wii's lack of voice chat: I believe nintendo has stated numerous times that the reason they don't have voice is their inability to police it.
Sounds silly but Reggie made a comment a while back to the affect that 'everyone keeps forgetting that kids play games too' (this was also some sarcasm aimed at the critical gaming press). Nintendo has always envisioned themselves as a family-friendly company, and I'm sure the knowledge of what typically transpires in a pre-game chat room makes them very concerned about how parents will view their product...

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Old 08-03-2010, 04:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post

To comment on the topic of the wii's lack of voice chat: I believe nintendo has stated numerous times that the reason they don't have voice is their inability to police it.
Sounds silly but Reggie made a comment a while back to the affect that 'everyone keeps forgetting that kids play games too' (this was also some sarcasm aimed at the critical gaming press). Nintendo has always envisioned themselves as a family-friendly company, and I'm sure the knowledge of what typically transpires in a pre-game chat room makes them very concerned about how parents will view their product...

Very true - although a new headset mic for Wii, presumably using the WiiSpeak features, is coming later in the year - right around the time Conduit 2 (voice chat confirmed) & COD: Black Ops (voice chat possible) are released.

Money does not buy happiness. It can, however, buy you a giant boat that you can pull up alongside happiness. - David Lee Roth

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Old 08-03-2010, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by jwebb1970 View Post

Very true - although a new headset mic for Wii, presumably using the WiiSpeak features, is coming later in the year - right around the time Conduit 2 (voice chat confirmed) & COD: Black Ops (voice chat possible) are released.

Makes me wonder if the big N has any bright ideas for user-controls to weed out those you don't want to play with...
I've always wanted an 'adult swim' for xbla-- figured that would weed out the most annoying of the teenage racist/homophobic/overly agreesive players right there. I mean, no one wants to play with old folks anyway... Right?

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