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post #31 of 47 Old 02-04-2011, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by dragonyeuw View Post

1) Sound logic. That's not to say those who won't buy can't express why they won't, or morseo,what factors would have led them TO buy. I should remind that there is a version of All-stars which features Mario World on it:

I agree and wasn't trying to discourage discussion that views this release differently than I do. I just happen to disagree and felt like writing it up and debating it a bit.

And they weren't selling millions of downloads of Super Mario World for $8 a pop in 1994 when that SMAS+SMW pack-in happened (At least in North America, SMAS+SMW wasn't available as a standalone release and was only bundled with systems). It was much closer to the situation with Wii Sports today where Wii's that include Wii Sports Resort also still include the original Wii Sports. They weren't devaluing anything at the time, most every SuperNes sold had included Super Mario World from the start and it was easily purchased for next to nothing used in 1994. Super Mario World wasn't even available new as a standalone game in 1994. I never saw it as standalone release until briefly in the mid 90's and then a Player's Choice rerelease around 1998.

So sure, they were sweetening a package at the time by including SMW. But the sweetener wasn't something they were already making a killing from since everyone had already been getting SMW with their purchase for no additional cost anyways and they weren't selling it seperately. Using Super Mario 64 when they continue to make a nice bit of change off it through the Virtual Console to sweeten up this release would've been giving away money since they'd be getting it in this $30 compilation and not have to pay $10 to download it. So it's a very different situation than SMAS+SMW was.

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Originally Posted by dragonyeuw View Post

1) Exactly. The same people who don't take their Wiis online and therefore can't access the VC NES Mario titles, are similarly unable to access the Mario 64 VC download. So why not include it in All-stars?

Because sales of the retail collection wouldn't be limited to just those that don't take their Wii's online. I've explained already why I think including a very successful download for essentially free (Assuming you'd want this release to stay with the same MSRP for this retail release that it was sold at with just SMAS) doesn't make any business sense. If they were to have increased the MSRP of this collection with SM64 included to match the profit they'd of made off it as a $10 download, then sure, including it makes business sense if they're not going to make less money off it as a result and it's needed to help sell the retail package.

Some of you seem to want to have gotten Mario Brothers (NES version goes for $5 on the VC), Super Mario Brothers (NES version goes for $5 on the VC), Super Mario Brothers 2 (NES version goes for $5 on the VC), Super Mario Brothers 3 (NES version goes for $5 on the VC), Super Mario Brothers 2 Japan (Famicom version goes for $6 on the VC), Super Mario World (SNES version goes for $8 on the VC), Yoshi's Island (I think we can assume it's going to go for at least $8 as a 3DS download, if not more due to the 3d treatment it's recieving), Super Mario 64 (N64 version goes for $10 on the VC), and Super Mario Sunshine (I think we can assume if it were digitally released that it would be approximately $15 like an Xbox Original download), Super Mario Land (Coming to the 3DS version of the Virtual Console, for I assume $5), and Super Mario Land 2 (Coming to the 3DS version of the Virtual Console, for I assume $5), all for the $30 this Wii compilation sold for.

That's nearly $80 in downloads there with Nintendo's only cost involved after programming the necessary emulators, a few hours of employee time to QA each download and create a virtual manual and the ESRB reviews fees being the cost to host those files. Asking for all that for just $30 and Nintendo has to pay to manufacture everything doesn't require a MBA to see why it makes absolutely no business sense here. Super Mario All-Stars had to be done in a way that protects the value of these downloads since they're worth far more individually than they would be compiled together, not giving them away for far less then they're worth.
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post #32 of 47 Old 02-04-2011, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_Ames View Post


Using Super Mario 64 when they continue to make a nice bit of change off it through the Virtual Console to sweeten up this release would've been giving away money since they'd be getting it in this $30 compilation and not have to pay $10 to download it. So it's a very different situation than SMAS+SMW was.

Which is why I suggested raising the MSRP. Did you overlook that part of my response? Adding roms of Mario World and Mario 64 would have cost practically nothing, but it would give the release a perception of higher value, which Nintendo could use to justify charging more than they did. The MSRP is $29 as is, right? Slap Mario World and Yoshi's Island in it and MSRP it at $40 or whatever. Hell, charge $50 for it. What's the big deal?


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Some of you seem to want to have gotten Mario Brothers (NES version goes for $5 on the VC), Super Mario Brothers (NES version goes for $5 on the VC), Super Mario Brothers 2 (NES version goes for $5 on the VC), Super Mario Brothers 3 (NES version goes for $5 on the VC), Super Mario Brothers 2 Japan (Famicom version goes for $6 on the VC), Super Mario World (SNES version goes for $8 on the VC), Yoshi's Island (I think we can assume it's going to go for at least $8 as a 3DS download, if not more due to the 3d treatment it's recieving), Super Mario 64 (N64 version goes for $10 on the VC), and Super Mario Sunshine (I think we can assume if it were digitally released that it would be approximately $15 like an Xbox Original download), Super Mario Land (Coming to the 3DS version of the Virtual Console, for I assume $5), and Super Mario Land 2 (Coming to the 3DS version of the Virtual Console, for I assume $5), all for the $30 this Wii compilation sold for.

Let's not exaggerate. I said they could have added two more roms( Mario World and Yoshi's island or 64 or Sunshine) . Way to overstate the issue. But just to humor you, if they had your exaggerated package together as an Ultimate 25th anniversary of Mario and charged $90 for it, I'd sooner buy that then a $30 release of Mario 1, 2, and 3 roms. You keep talking about what we're asking for in a $30 package, when it's already been stated several times that they could have added a few more games, raised the price, and I'd have bought it. No-one has said they want ALL THAT which you state above for $30.

To be frank, it's really not worth the effort you're putting into these long responses( which if memory serves you said you were going stop yesterday). I have given my opinion on what could have been included in the package, which would have made me bite. Nothing more complicated than that. You're investing wayyyy too much into countering my opinion on the matter. It's really not that serious. You're fine with the product, wonderful. Is it ok if I express my opinion on the matter, without being bashed over the head with all your assumed justifications for why Nintendo went the route it did? I more or less have these games already, so I'm only stating what would have made me double-dip. This release didn't do it for me. Believe me, I get the business logic behind releasing what they did at the pricepoint they did and the myriad of reasons that you've painstakingly outlined. I am saying what they could have put in the package, at a higher price point, that would have justified a purchase for me. I can't sit here and speak as to what is or isn't worth it to you or anyone else.

Too many systems and games....not enough time or money!

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post #33 of 47 Old 02-04-2011, 07:35 PM
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Sue me, I changed my mind and replied. I'm not aware that I signed a contract saying I wouldn't. And it's a discussion board, if you don't care to debate something, ignore it. Like you said, this is nothing pressing. So if you don't enjoy the discussion, common sense says to get out of it, don't you think?

I wasn't just talking towards you with that last reply like you seemed to think, I was talking more generally about the critcism the game has recieved with that second paragraph along with replying to a few of your points that I quoted. Sorry it wasn't clearer that I wasn't tossing you into that second paragraph of my reply.

And the game has been widely criticized that it's a $30 release with just a Virtual Console emulator and rom on a disc and nothing else. Is raising the price and putting a couple more Virtual Console games on there (Some of which many of the people in these online communities and professional reviewers already bought on the Virtual Console or dismissed because they own the originals) going to change much of anything? I really doubt it/

At the heart of the criticism, it's been that it's a $30 Virtual Console game on a disc. I'm not so sure something like two Virtual Console games on a disc at $40 is going to recieved much better (If at all). And then they'd be criticized by people that did buy Super Mario 64 on the Virtual Console (Something millions of downloads have been sold) that had to pay $40 for a package that is 50% a duplicate of something Nintendo already sold them on the Wii. People seem to hate to see content duplicated on the same system (Such as whining that Sega Genesis Collection included Sonic the Hedgehog 1 & 2 among the 30+ games on that collection after Sonic Mega Collection Plus already had them). Since SM64 sold so well as a download, they'd be getting plenty of criticism had they done that without solving a single issue.

I'm not sure Nintendo could win here. I envision a lot of the negative reactions toward this release still happening if it was a $40 release with two games or a $50 release with three games (In fact, I think the criticism just might've increased significantly at such prices).
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post #34 of 47 Old 02-05-2011, 02:30 AM
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Lol still going at it. I've said my piece, man. Obviously you're far more vested in this than I am. There's nothing to debate. I said what I would have liked to see, that would have made me buy it. End of story. I wish you'd take your own advice and ignore me.

I didn't mind discussing the issue before, but the horse has been sufficiently flogged dead. No-one is convincing the other at this stage, so I think we've reached the 'going in circles' and 'agree to disagree' part of the conversation.

Too many systems and games....not enough time or money!

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post #35 of 47 Old 02-05-2011, 04:55 AM
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Don't be so sensitive that there is discussion going on at a discussion board.

It's not such an unheard of concept.
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post #36 of 47 Old 02-05-2011, 07:43 AM
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Please, I'm not the least bit sensitive, I've simply said all I have to on the game. You've made your points, I've made mine. There are plenty of people who are content with the product as is, and some are not and make the choice to not buy. We as consumers have the ability to make those kinds of decisions. Not sure what else needs to be said that already hasn't been over the last 2 pages.

Too many systems and games....not enough time or money!

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post #37 of 47 Old 02-05-2011, 04:05 PM - Thread Starter
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I can't believe more people aren't complaining about the lag w/ a wiimote. Totally ruined it for me - I don't really want to play it anymore (and I do enjoy these old games).
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post #38 of 47 Old 02-05-2011, 09:44 PM
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You sure seem sensitive about things which seems odd for someone that doesn't care like you claim. And I agree, it was a pointless conversation. I should've ended it when I first said I was going to. But I thought you made some points that I disagreed with so I made a new post. I wasn't trying to change any opinions, just debate the subject. I enjoyed discussing it and have found the entire thing interesting. But I'm sorry if it rubbed you wrong since it was very much unintentional. But it's a discussion board after all so I hardly see how I did anything wrong like you keep implying. 

Getting back to the topic, I noticed something that disappointed me last night. They've removed the nice save state ability that the Virtual Console SuperNes emulator has. It's not a huge problem in this game like it would've been in some others, but I don't understand why they went to the trouble of removing it. Being able to exit from the home menu and have your game pop up right where you left it the next time you return has been one of my favorite features of the Virtual Console.

I wish I was sure that there was lag going on. But I'm still left wondering if it's my own timing being a bit off, or something else. I've seen others report that it seemingly goes away when using a classic controller (Doesn't make sense to me since it's still utilizing the Wiimote to communicate with the console), so maybe give that a try?

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post #39 of 47 Old 02-05-2011, 10:18 PM
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I popped in the SNES version of this game tonight for the first time in ages, guess the debate on here prompted that. Amazing the simplicity and sheer fun factor of these games 20 years later. It's funny that games like this, which I've played over and over, can be pulled out and enjoyed just as they were upon their release. Today's games, for me, lack that timeless quality.

As for the save-state thing, that's a Wii VC function so I'd have been shocked to see that make it into this particular 25th anniversary release.

Too many systems and games....not enough time or money!

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post #40 of 47 Old 02-06-2011, 12:41 AM
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But I assume it's the exact same emulator being used? So I just figured they'd keep it intact. I suppose since it's now running via disc that they might've had to do some reprogramming to it and just didn't bother and disabled it. Only thing that I can think of off hand.

No matter why it's not there, it still would've been nice to have since I think the normal save system forces you to restart at the beginning of the world you saved on. Some of the worlds, especially in SMB2J and SMB3, can take quite a while to work your way through.

I think the enhanced versions of SMB2 and SMB3 stand up beautifully in this game, too. That's one reason I'm not too disappointed to not have seen them be remade again since I think SMB3 especially was close to perfection already. I think they did an excellent job in 1993 upgrading the graphics and audio for these two games (I'm less crazy about the job done with SMB and SMB2J).

I played the audio cd tonight. Wasn't terribly impressive, although it was more entertaining than the artwork book was. They sure skimped out on the bonuses for this release. I personally think if there was more effort that needed to go into this collection, it was in those two areas and not the game itself. And I think more effort with the extras would've also of helped improve the critical reception this release has recieved in the media and forums like this one.
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post #41 of 47 Old 02-06-2011, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_Ames View Post

But I assume it's the exact same emulator being used?

I think the enhanced versions of SMB2 and SMB3 stand up beautifully in this game, too. That's one reason I'm not too disappointed to not have seen them be remade again since I think SMB3 especially was close to perfection already. I think they did an excellent job in 1993 upgrading the graphics and audio for these two games (I'm less crazy about the job done with SMB and SMB2J).

Honestly, I couldn't say. I thought the save state feature was simply a function of the Wii, not specially programmed into each rom or emulator.

Agree no need for them to be remade. I think the 2D sprites hold up remarkably well over the years. Early 3D games( like those on N64, Saturn, PS1) on the other hand can be rather hard on the eyes...

Too many systems and games....not enough time or money!

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post #42 of 47 Old 02-06-2011, 08:26 AM
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I can't believe more people aren't complaining about the lag w/ a wiimote. Totally ruined it for me - I don't really want to play it anymore (and I do enjoy these old games).

I would hope that you have already thought that your TV could be the problem. There is one difference that I can think of that could possibly cause lag on just this game vs. every other VC game out there. I don't know this for sure, I'm just speculating. All-Stars may be running in a different resolution than VC games do. I've read on this forum that VC games run in the exact same resolution as the original consoles did EXCEPT for N64. All-Stars may have been converted to 480p. Since LCDs and Plasmas can't display either of those resolutions, they must be processed to the TVs native resolution. Even in stand alone video processors, one resolution may turn out better than another. In other words the people who are complaining that All-Stars lags and the VC doesn't, their TV most likely processes 240p (VC) resolution better than 480p (retail Wii games). To someone who has a CRT HDTV like me will experience no lag whatsoever either way. My brother has a copy of this game and a SD and HD CRT. I'll see if it lags on his stuff. Most likely it's your TV.

Your system can shine no matter what it's made of.......except if it's Bose.
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post #43 of 47 Old 02-07-2011, 04:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonyeuw View Post

Honestly, I couldn't say. I thought the save state feature was simply a function of the Wii, not specially programmed into each rom or emulator.

I really don't know, either. But I really doubt the ability for some of the Virtual Console emulators to suspend the state of the game is a function of the Wii. I imagine it's a function of the emulation programming.
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post #44 of 47 Old 02-16-2011, 07:12 AM
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There is a 'final' batch of this game coming out in March, for those interested.

Too many systems and games....not enough time or money!

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post #45 of 47 Old 02-16-2011, 08:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mr. Audio View Post

I would hope that you have already thought that your TV could be the problem. There is one difference that I can think of that could possibly cause lag on just this game vs. every other VC game out there. I don't know this for sure, I'm just speculating. All-Stars may be running in a different resolution than VC games do. I've read on this forum that VC games run in the exact same resolution as the original consoles did EXCEPT for N64. All-Stars may have been converted to 480p. Since LCDs and Plasmas can't display either of those resolutions, they must be processed to the TVs native resolution. Even in stand alone video processors, one resolution may turn out better than another. In other words the people who are complaining that All-Stars lags and the VC doesn't, their TV most likely processes 240p (VC) resolution better than 480p (retail Wii games). To someone who has a CRT HDTV like me will experience no lag whatsoever either way. My brother has a copy of this game and a SD and HD CRT. I'll see if it lags on his stuff. Most likely it's your TV.

I'm throwing it up on a DLP.
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post #46 of 47 Old 02-16-2011, 09:45 AM
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I bought the limited edition this christmas for me and my GF (bought a Wii for us also) since she's a fan of Mario. The game is still unopened and haven't touch it. I think I got it for the collector's feel
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post #47 of 47 Old 02-19-2011, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jopopsy View Post

I'm throwing it up on a DLP.

I hate to break it to you man, but DLP TVs are known to have some of the worst input lag.

Your system can shine no matter what it's made of.......except if it's Bose.
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