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post #31 of 48 Old 04-15-2011, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

Your stepson has very good taste. One of my favorites this gen! Tragically underrated game.

lol thanks.... so far his favorite seems to be Batman Arkham Asylum. He's been killing the challenge modes in that game lately

Too many systems and games....not enough time or money!

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post #32 of 48 Old 04-15-2011, 10:44 AM
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Has Nintendo created any new IP in the last 10+ years?? it always seems to be mario, mario kart, zelda and pokemon.
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post #33 of 48 Old 04-15-2011, 11:05 AM
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Another point to look at is Marketing Demographic. The Wii benefited from a very unique sociological situation in the US; they were simultaneously clutching a "Baby Bubble" from Millenium Babies (my kids were born in 2000 too), as well as the "retirement bubble" rapidly aging original baby-boomers. The parents bought it for their kids to get the "must have" gift, the boomers bought it to keep in shape playing bowling etc. Now combine all the now affluent Gen-Y folks nostalgic for the NEC, and this thing was primed for critical mass. Those kids are all on a more powerful console now, or outgrew the novelty and went back to their DS. The older folks are most likely not going to buy the New Wii, as they generally take good care of their stuff (and often not "gadget geeks") and will have no real motivation to upgrade. All the families I know, who already have the Wii, simply pass it on to younger siblings who don't have the inclination or money to buy new game discs.

I am sure the Wii 2.0 will do well enough globally, but other than N-core folks, I don't see the same blockbuster reception that the first got here in the US though.

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post #34 of 48 Old 04-15-2011, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Goatse View Post

Has Nintendo created any new IP in the last 10+ years?? it always seems to be mario, mario kart, zelda and pokemon.

I don't know about new, but they've certainly had some worthwhile reboots. Zelda got a makeover for the Wii, Metroid was pretty much reinvented for the Gamecube and continued on the Wii, and Kirby got a good revival on the Wii.

Read. Think. Post. In that order, preferably

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post #35 of 48 Old 04-15-2011, 11:47 AM
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So the prevailing theory in here (Edit - This thread started out in the Xbox forum) is that the Wii is currently this gen's #1 console (still running in sales position #2) because everyone has one, but no-one actually uses them? I'm sorry, I don't buy that when it's based on a bunch of anecdotal evidence on a gamers' forum, and the sales figures say otherwise.
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Originally Posted by WalksInDarkness View Post

Dedicated Gamers, twitch FPS or otherwise, are becoming irrelevant? Tell that to Infinity Ward, that Billion Dollar Franchise must be a disappointment to them.

Yeah, look at where CoD started and where it is now and tell me it's evidence of the survival of "hardcore" gaming. CoD is an auto-aiming FPS with magical perks, and has been for years now. I didn't say it's not successful, but hardcore it isn't.

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When non-gamers define the industry and it's long term profit sucess, for a significant multi-year stretch, then I may accept that argument. However, the Kinect & Move will just as likely continue to attract this casual crowd with superior titles or functionality.

Thanks for proving my point. Non-gamers have defined this generation of consoles so thoroughly, BOTH Sony & MS have scrambled to produce copy-cat motion control systems to stay in the game, after mocking the idea initially (then getting stomped by it).

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Honestly I see many more "casual" users, young and old, enthusiastically beam about their DS (than compared their Wii).

And? Score another success for Nintendo is all that means. How's the current PSP doing? MS hasn't even tried (and won't)...

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My kids don't just go on COD...more than any of those games they play the goofy games on the Kinect. So which is it then, casual gamers on an X360 are then considered core? Or is it you are truly not casual unless you play a Wii? It either is or it isn't, you can't have it both ways without that argument being moot.

The argument isn't moot because all of those games exist on the 360 because of the success of the Wii. Or do you really think Kinect (and all the kiddie games for it) is just some brilliant idea MS dreamed up all by themselves? They're playing catch-up with Nintendo for the casual market. Nintendo is now responding with an updated console to try and stay ahead. Everyone on the Sony/MS bandwagons mocked the Wii and declared it a failure before it even came out, and we now all see how accurate those predictions were. Yet, here we are again, with the "adult gamers" declaring a new Nintendo console a failure even while it's nothing more than rumor.

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Awesome knee-jerk reaction and stereotyping, about kids that are intelligent and skilled enough to know that the Wii is now obsolete and irrelevant to them; what's next, a overgeneralized comment about who eats at Popeye's?

Awesome going out of your way to be offended . What makes you think I was talking about your children? Are you really going to make the argument that the discourse level in your average room of randoms on XBL isn't somewhere between a school-yard and frat-house? If so, I think you need to spend an evening playing randoms in whatever flavor-of-the-month FPS is hot right now (eg Blops) and just listen to all the verbal excrement that's hurled around before getting upset with me for pointing out the obvious.
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post #36 of 48 Old 04-15-2011, 12:11 PM
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Re-read my 2:05 post. I never said it was going to be a failure, it just won't explode like the first one did. The complex socio-economic demographic is just plain antagonistic at the moment. Unless they pull of something truly "revolutionary", as they claim, I just don't sense the "It Factor" yet.

1) Make Wii 2.0
2) ???
3) Profit!

BTW: The kids on XBL (or any service) are only obnoxious if you listen to them, which I don't because nobody (even adults) ever has anything insightful or intelligent to say either way (except friends of course). The mute function is there for a purpose, use it or let them win by annoying you.

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post #37 of 48 Old 04-15-2011, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by WRXpilot View Post

Awesome going out of your way to be offended . What makes you think I was talking about your children? Are you really going to make the argument that the discourse level in your average room of randoms on XBL isn't somewhere between a school-yard and frat-house? If so, I think you need to spend an evening playing randoms in whatever flavor-of-the-month FPS is hot right now (eg Blops) and just listen to all the verbal excrement that's hurled around before getting upset with me for pointing out the obvious.

Hmm, good point. I'll try it too:

WRX Drivers are predominantly weenie boy-racers, who can't afford real Sports Cars. They are usually young uninitiated childless carousers, who therefore don't mind the purposeless tiny cabin - not too mention the annoying wind-out shrill of the Turbo & comical 4-Cyl. They do not understand that they are media puppets, at the hands of Car and Parts marketeers, who assume the neophytes never heard the classic saying: "Horsepower sells cars, Torque wins races".

I'm sure you won't be offended by the overgeneralized, yet often accurate and widely held public perception. Just pointing out the "obvious", right?...

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post #38 of 48 Old 04-15-2011, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by WalksInDarkness View Post

I'm sure you won't be offended by the overgeneralized, yet often accurate and widely held public perception. Just pointing out the "obvious", right?...

I'm well aware of what the public thinks about car enthusiasts, especially ones that drive imports.

I'm not sure what you think they have to do with XBL, other than the fact that you seem to have assumed my characterization of the "typical" console FPS-fan who populates XBL was a direct attack on you & yours, necessitating retaliation on your part.

Rather, my point was that the type of gamer who currently drops hours daily into COD:whatever, while an important niche market, is no longer the primary demographic driving the design & marketing of consoles (as evidenced by the wild success of the Wii, and increasing MS & Sony concentration on the "casual" side of the market).

Why you find this idea personally insulting, I have no idea...
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post #39 of 48 Old 04-15-2011, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by WRXpilot View Post

Rather, my point was that the type of gamer who currently drops hours daily into COD:whatever, while an important niche market, is no longer the primary demographic driving the design & marketing of consoles (as evidenced by the wild success of the Wii, and increasing MS & Sony concentration on the "casual" side of the market).

that niche? market is exactly who drives the design and marketing of consoles, with the exception of the wii.

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post #40 of 48 Old 04-17-2011, 04:44 AM
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Originally Posted by WRXpilot View Post

So the prevailing theory in here (Edit - This thread started out in the Xbox forum) is that the Wii is currently this gen's #1 console (still running in sales position #2) because everyone has one, but no-one actually uses them? I'm sorry, I don't buy that when it's based on a bunch of anecdotal evidence on a gamers' forum, and the sales figures say otherwise.

You can base it off information like attach rates. The Wii has sold more consoles, but Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 owners have bought more games for their consoles when you divide software sales by the number of consoles out there. That's even when you take into account many owners of the Xbox 360 and even quite a few PS3 owners having replaced their systems more than once due to failures or significant system upgrades. The math still puts them at a higher attach rate despite there easily being far more "retired" Xbox 360's and Playstation 3's out there than Wii's.

Or the sales charts. The Xbox 360 has far more different million sellers than the Wii. And much of the top 10 in sales each month for Wii software are 1st party games that have been out for years. People don't keep going out and rebuying Mario Kart and putting 40 hours again into it. They do it once, yet the same games pretty consistently dominate Wii software sales.

There is certainly some evidence out there that suggest that many Nintendo Wii owners haven't exactly been heavily using their console on a regular basis, and facts that show that people buy less games for the Wii than they do for their Xbox 360 or Playstation 3's. And for anecdotal evidence, I'm sure several of us reading this forum have older family members that aren't traditional gamers that have bought one and perhaps never played anything on it beyond the pack in, with the system now just gathering dust for the most part. How many of us can say the same about the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 (Especially in the pre Kinect/Move days)?

Just don't interpret that as me saying anything negative about the console. I'm quite fond of it, regularly use it, and have loved many of the 1st party releases for it and a decent number of its 3rd party games. But I do think a large number of the Wii's install base hasn't been taking full advantage of the system.
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post #41 of 48 Old 04-17-2011, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

Am I excited? You bet. Will this replace either my 360 or my PS3? Not a chance.

QFT. contrary to the thread's title Nintendo maybe searching for direction next gen.

I appreciate what Nintendo has accomplished with the wii for the non "harcore gamer" but it never appealed to me. The wife (not a gamer) was into picking up the wii before. I held out for a PS3 to sit next to the 360 and couldn't be happier.

Now with move and kinect wii is playing catch-up in the motion control and muscle dept. Since everybody and their brother has one it is time for Wii2 to hopefully steal back some of the sales PS3 & 360 could make from now until Wii2's launch. Initially Wii2 will sell well but I can't see Wii 2 having the success Wii did unless it brings somthing fresh to the table as wii did. If you look through gaming history the "winning" console I don't believe was ever the most powerful one. Maybe SNES over genesis but @ the end of that gen I believe genesis caught up in sales. If so I'll bet the farm it was because of the "blast prosessing" used in the sonic games lol...
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post #42 of 48 Old 04-18-2011, 02:17 AM
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Actually, you have that backwards. It was the Super Nintendo that caught up in sales in the end thanks to late generation support from Nintendo that lasted into the late 1990s, while Sega had all but concluded Genesis development by the time the Saturn was released.

Sega had a healthy lead for years thanks to it's early release that happened years before the SuperNes was released and a series of hits like the Sonic series. But their string of poor decisions that started with things like the 32X, Sega CD, poor liason between Japan and North America and later misteps that eventually drove them out of the hardware market saw them surrender that lead and finish the generation far behind despite their healthy lead at the height of the 16 bit age in 1993. Their focus was on everything but the Genesis itself by that point, unlike Nintendo.

I think that's the only console generation where the most powerful console won (Barring the NeoGeo, the Genesis expansions, or the early next generation consoles like the Jaguar that somewhat straddled the line between the 16 bit and 32/64 bit generations from consideration).

Still, I'm not sure what that point has to do with here? This would be Nintendo's next generation game console that will be going head to head eventually with the Xbox 720 and Playstation 4, both of which I think everyone expects to be far more powerful. They're not releasing a second competitor for this current console generation, they're just going to be the first out of the gate for the next one if the rumors and expectations actually pan out.

I highly doubt when we look back at this upcoming generation later this decade that we're going to find the WiiHD being the most powerful of the three. So what does pointing out that the most powerful console rarely "wins" have to do with the WiiHD?
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post #43 of 48 Old 04-18-2011, 04:44 AM
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Do we really need to pick a "winner" at this point? They all seem fairly successful. Maybe I'm deluded.

With Kinect & Move I dont think either of the HD systems are going to put out any new hardware in the next couple years.

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post #44 of 48 Old 04-18-2011, 06:26 PM
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With Kinect & Move I dont think either of the HD systems are going to put out any new hardware in the next couple years.

I bet Microsoft responds in 2013.
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post #45 of 48 Old 04-18-2011, 07:30 PM
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Nintendo has been afforded the luxury of doing things their way in the console realm because they've totally owned the handheld market. How much money do these guys actually have? It's insane.

They stuck with carts on the N64 when CDs was the right way to go. They avoided DVDs with the GameCube and then avoided HD with the Wii. It annoys many people but I think Nintendo hasn't , and really won't ever care because they're so filthy rich and arrogant.
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post #46 of 48 Old 04-19-2011, 03:41 PM
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The GameCube used DVD technology. They were just a minidisc derivitive of the technology, but it was adequate for most software development on the GameCube (Never heard of developers choosing to ignore it due to less storage space, and I only had 1 or 2 games like Resident Evil 4 that needed to be shipped on two disc).
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post #47 of 48 Old 04-20-2011, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by ForzaItalia8 View Post

Nintendo has been afforded the luxury of doing things their way in the console realm because they've totally owned the handheld market. How much money do these guys actually have? It's insane.

They stuck with carts on the N64 when CDs was the right way to go. They avoided DVDs with the GameCube and then avoided HD with the Wii. It annoys many people but I think Nintendo hasn't , and really won't ever care because they're so filthy rich and arrogant.


I'd say it's more stubbornness than arrogance. I mean, if you want true arrogance, go look up any press quote from MS's Steve Ballmer, or Sony's mouthpiece/d-bag Jack Tretton. I do not recall Iwata-san ever reaching either of these guys' level of bluster.

IIRC, they stuck w/ carts for the N64 due to piracy worries involving the then-new to consoles CD based games - not to mention their business debacle w/ Sony, when the intial plan was for a disc based Nintendo system that was a collaboration w/ Sony (and eventually led to Sony's first dip in the console pool w/ the original PS).

As Leo already pointed out, the GCN was using DVD tech, albeit the less common mini-DVD - again, I assume to help ease Ninty's piracy worries.

Wii's lack of HD, it seems, was a two-fold decision. Less Horsepower for Wii did keep costs down. Plus, by that point Sony & MS were the dominant forces in the market. Nintendo decided to not try & directly compete w/ these 2 & go for a much wider market - a wider market that in 2006 did not have the penetration of HDTVs that said market has today.

So - stubbornness, a potential lack of foresight & eventually the attempt to bring gaming to a much larger consumer base is what led Ninty to the decisions they made. Whether the 'core gamer likes those decisions or not does not matter. Despite their missteps, Nintendo has managed to remain a profitable company even during their lowest times (they never LOST $$ on N64 or GCN).

I'm sure pretty much any business would not mind having Nintendo's level of "arrogance" lead to massive profits.

Money does not buy happiness. It can, however, buy you a giant boat that you can pull up alongside happiness. - David Lee Roth

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post #48 of 48 Old 04-20-2011, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForzaItalia8 View Post

Nintendo has been afforded the luxury of doing things their way in the console realm because they've totally owned the handheld market. How much money do these guys actually have? It's insane.

They stuck with carts on the N64 when CDs was the right way to go. They avoided DVDs with the GameCube and then avoided HD with the Wii. It annoys many people but I think Nintendo hasn't , and really won't ever care because they're so filthy rich and arrogant.

It's not because they are "arrogant", it's because they have in business for a long time (they were in the game industry for almost 15 years when the PSX came out, and 20 when the Xbox came out), they have built an audience over the decades, they know what sells, and they don't twist in the wind.

In the end they made a ton of money on the N64. They made a lot of money on the GameCube. They made so much money on the Wii that, if anything, they might feel a bit too pressured to replicate that success. Surely, this is a sign they are doing something right?

Let's also not forget that Nintendo has, by far, the best lineup of IP in the industry. I worked at a games shop in the late 1990s and Pokemon was the top selling game. It's still the top selling game! Long after COD is forgotten, Pokemon will still be selling.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, both Sony and MS would have swapped places for Nintendo in a hot second this generation. We'll see what happens next time around, but I don't think being in the driver's seat (much as MS was last time around) is a negative.

Word is Rockstar is one of Nintendo's top targets for this system. If true, Nintendo will be targetting a very different audience than the Wii. And they kind of have to, the audience that made them so much money on Wii is now playing Angry Birds.
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