Wii U - Buy now or wait? - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Buy now or wait?
Buy now 9 42.86%
Wait a few months to see if the price drops, or new games come out 12 57.14%
Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1 of 42 Old 12-04-2012, 02:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, the system has been out a little while, and I'm on the fence about whether to go ahead and plunk down $350. My main concern is that I got burned when I bought my 3DS for $250, and could have waited a few months and paid almost $100 less.

I was thinking about putting it off for a few months, and getting a new AV receiver first. My current receiver is pretty dated and doesn't have HDMI ports, so I'm looking to upgrade that soon. If I do that, I might wait until another major Wii U title hits (Zelda?) On the other hand, Mario in HD is tough to pass up.

So, what say you? If you bought one, do you wish you'd waited? If you haven't, are you planning to buy, and why are you putting it off?
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post #2 of 42 Old 12-04-2012, 08:30 PM
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I got one at launch.

It's not perfect, but if I had to do it again, I would still buy it. NintendoLand surprised me how much fun it is, and Mario in HD is pretty awesome. Also enjoying Sonic Racing and Nano Assault Neo.

I like the controller a lot, even with the short battery life. And love the fact I don't have to turn the TV on to play games. The UI needs a bit of work, and a few more games with creative use of the game pad are really needed to justify it going against the 360 and PS3, but its a good start.

Good luck with you choice.


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post #3 of 42 Old 12-05-2012, 02:00 AM
 
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Buy a new receiver. You need something that does HDMI in order to get Wii U in surround, plus Audyssey is freakin' fantastic and will be an upgrade for your entire setup. I have a Wii U. I like the hardware and ZombiU, but the OS is really, exceptionally bad. I don't regret buying it, but I certainly would have spent the money elsewhere had I not already upgraded my display, receiver, and subs earlier in the year.

Having any sort of expectation that the price will rapidly drop on this thing? Fool's logic. A single data point with the 3DS does not denote a trend. Even if sales are sluggish on the thing, Nintendo has an entire year before they have to even consider moving on the price. Let's play pretend and say they drop a whole $100 in February of 2014. Will you not get a hundred dollars worth of fun out of this thing in the next year? If the answer is no, then there is no point even contemplating buying a Wii U, is there?

To reiterate an earlier point: If the receiver you buy doesn't have some flavor of Audyssey MultEQ on it, then you bought the wrong receiver.
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post #4 of 42 Old 12-05-2012, 07:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darklordjames View Post

Buy a new receiver. You need something that does HDMI in order to get Wii U in surround, plus Audyssey is freakin' fantastic and will be an upgrade for your entire setup. I have a Wii U. I like the hardware and ZombiU, but the OS is really, exceptionally bad. I don't regret buying it, but I certainly would have spent the money elsewhere had I not already upgraded my display, receiver, and subs earlier in the year.
Having any sort of expectation that the price will rapidly drop on this thing? Fool's logic. A single data point with the 3DS does not denote a trend. Even if sales are sluggish on the thing, Nintendo has an entire year before they have to even consider moving on the price. Let's play pretend and say they drop a whole $100 in February of 2014. Will you not get a hundred dollars worth of fun out of this thing in the next year? If the answer is no, then there is no point even contemplating buying a Wii U, is there?
To reiterate an earlier point: If the receiver you buy doesn't have some flavor of Audyssey MultEQ on it, then you bought the wrong receiver.

Thanks for the tip on the receiver. I really appreciate it, because I am a real newb when it comes to home theater equipment. I'm going to pm you a couple of questions, because I don't want to get too far off topic here.
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post #5 of 42 Old 12-05-2012, 07:28 AM
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Hm. Even though I'm personally enjoying my Wii U, I haven't been recommending it to friends and at this point really would only recommend it to big Nintendo nerds like me. I wouldn't expect a price drop anytime soon, but the OS is super slow and kinda buggy, and in general the system has a lot of wrinkles that hopefully (hopefully!) will be ironed out at some point, though probably not anytime soon. And much as I love the controller, there isn't exactly a whole lot I'm using it on at the moment -- aside from some admittedly very fun multiplayer Nintendoland and NSMB sessions, I've mostly just been playing Wii games (though I do plan on picking up ZombiU and Sonic Racing at some point). Even looking to the future, there's not much I'm looking forward to other than Pikmin 3. Though to be fair, there's a Nintendo Direct conference in a couple hours that is addressing upcoming Wii U titles, so that could change.

And yeah, on top of that, if you don't even have a receiver that supports HDMI, you're not even going to get the full experience from the Wii U. A new receiver seems like a much smarter purchase at this point. Look at it this way: pick up a Wii U now and you have two maddeningly long firmware updates to look forward to before you can even really do anything with it -- updates that will be built into the system within a few months -- and it's questionable how much you'd use it after that. The receiver, on the other hand, will have immediate, pervasive benefit to your whole system. Get the receiver.
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post #6 of 42 Old 12-05-2012, 10:33 AM
 
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I don't PM. You have a thread for a reason, ask your questions here. Private messages just hides information from google, screwing future users out of data that they may be searching for. Why hide potentially valuable information from people?
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post #7 of 42 Old 12-05-2012, 11:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darklordjames View Post

I don't PM. You have a thread for a reason, ask your questions here. Private messages just hides information from google, screwing future users out of data that they may be searching for. Why hide potentially valuable information from people?

Fair enough. Here goes:

  • If I buy a receiver with X number of HDMI inputs, but end up with more HDMI devices, can I expand using an HDMI switch box? I currently have a 4 port monoprice switch box
  • What's the difference between Audyssey MultEQ and 2EQ?
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post #8 of 42 Old 12-05-2012, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darklordjames View Post

I don't PM. You have a thread for a reason, ask your questions here. Private messages just hides information from google, screwing future users out of data that they may be searching for. Why hide potentially valuable information from people?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurtiebird View Post

Fair enough. Here goes:
  • If I buy a receiver with X number of HDMI inputs, but end up with more HDMI devices, can I expand using an HDMI switch box? I currently have a 4 port monoprice switch box
  • What's the difference between Audyssey MultEQ and 2EQ?

Actually that's not "fair enough." It's half-baked at best. Yes, threads exist for a reason; PMs also exist for a reason. One does not exclude the utility of the other.

The reason for this thread is "Buy Now or Wait?" so your original inclination to PM was the correct one. Actually, I thought,
Right on. Good call." when you wrote you'd PM him. Having someone state that "you have a thread for a reason," then ignoring the reason for the thread by encouraging the inclusion of extraneous material is illogical. Both your questions have nothing to do with the Wii U or the topic of the thread so PM would have been preferred.

Actually it's the idea that every discussion that a thread spawns needs to be a part of the original thread that causes such huge bloat, derails the OP's original topic, and jams that incredible pile of excrement known as Google with so much junk that useful stuff gets obscured as you search for the needle in a haystack that google found in a 125 page thread.

I'm not saying you shouldn't just exchange the info now and get it over with. After all, it's your thread. wink.gif

I am saying there was an illogical analysis that needed comment.


On another topic, you're getting some good advice about upgrading your equipment while you wait for the Wii U's issues to get sorted out. Hey, back on topic!

What I can afford, when I can afford it...
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post #9 of 42 Old 12-05-2012, 04:37 PM
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A receiver is a good choice in your situation. There are only a few titles out there so by the time you're ready you'll have a better library to play through.

I'm not worried about buying a Wii U now, but I didn't buy a 3ds until after a price drop. It just came down to software. The Wii U was worth it just for NSMB U, Zombi U, and Nintendoland. It's got it's issues like a slow OS, but I absolutely love the controller. Being able to let my daughter play while I watch tv and not have to be in separate rooms is worth the price itself. She was playing Blops 2 on Sunday when I got home and I picked up the remote and switched over to football without her missing a beat.

To answer your questions:

1. Yes, you can use an hdmi switch with your receiver.

2. 2eq has lower resolution filters, only measures from 3 positions vs 6 with Multieq, and the biggest difference is that 2eq doesn't apply any low frequency correction.
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post #10 of 42 Old 12-06-2012, 12:39 AM
 
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"and jams that incredible pile of excrement known as Google with so much junk that useful stuff gets obscured as you search for the needle in a haystack that google found in a 125 page thread."

Referring to Google's results as such says more about your ability to use the tools at hand than the quality of their algorithms. In addition, today's search tools are the best that they will ever be, right? They can never get any better. Nope, of course they won't!

Data available to search engines is more valuable to the world than data hidden in a PM. This is not an arguable fact.


"What's the difference between Audyssey MultEQ and 2EQ?"

2EQ is the crap that you get in HTIB sets that want an Audyssey logo on the front of the box. It's very simple automated setup for levels and distance for your speakers, almost entirely ignoring the sub. Yes, it does some room correction, but by far the biggest problems in an average room is with the sub. MultEQ is the baseline, full feature-set, room correction. The XT and 32 version bump up resolution and accuracy, but it rapidly becomes a game of diminishing returns. You get a large improvement from no-autocorrection to 2EQ, a huge improvement again from 2EQ to MultEQ, then less and less improvement to XT and then 32. I run standard MultEQ, as it's the best I could get in the form factor I needed (<6" height). MultEQ XT is pretty affordable these days, living in the $350 Denon AVR17xx last I checked. MultEQ 32 is still terribly expensive last I saw.

MultEQ should be your bare minimum, with ideally MultEQ XT if it fits in your budget.
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post #11 of 42 Old 12-06-2012, 05:16 AM
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Thank you for the informative post, DLJ. I 'm also wanting to replace my 10+ year old receiver, so your post was very relevant to my situation...
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post #12 of 42 Old 12-06-2012, 07:03 AM
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I'll be curious to actually see how long this thing lasts before it gets a price drop. I would say since it has been out I've been to TRU/BB/Target at least once a week and I've seen at least seen the basic version and just yesterday the deluxe version whenever I've been at the store. For being this close to Xmas these are not flying off the shelves. I could definitely see a price drop or sweet bundle be made around the time say Xbox720 or PS4 come out if the rumors of 2013 holiday season are true. If it was the Wii that would not have happened since I was never able to see those in the stores this soon after the launch with relative ease like I see with the WiiU.
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post #13 of 42 Old 12-06-2012, 10:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darklordjames View Post

"What's the difference between Audyssey MultEQ and 2EQ?"
2EQ is the crap that you get in HTIB sets that want an Audyssey logo on the front of the box. It's very simple automated setup for levels and distance for your speakers, almost entirely ignoring the sub. Yes, it does some room correction, but by far the biggest problems in an average room is with the sub. MultEQ is the baseline, full feature-set, room correction. The XT and 32 version bump up resolution and accuracy, but it rapidly becomes a game of diminishing returns. You get a large improvement from no-autocorrection to 2EQ, a huge improvement again from 2EQ to MultEQ, then less and less improvement to XT and then 32. I run standard MultEQ, as it's the best I could get in the form factor I needed. MultEQ XT is pretty affordable these days, living in the $350 Denon AVR17xx last I checked. MultEQ 32 is still terribly expensive last I saw.
MultEQ should be your bare minimum, with ideally MultEQ XT if it fits in your budget.

Thanks, this is greatly appreciated.
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post #14 of 42 Old 12-06-2012, 01:34 PM
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got a wii u almost week ago, love the damn thing. really addicted to miiverse. awaiting on game announcements though, but enjoying zombiu and nintendoland

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post #15 of 42 Old 12-06-2012, 05:50 PM
 
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"I 'm also wanting to replace my 10+ year old receiver, so your post was very relevant to my situation..."

Huh, look at that. Instant proof that this discussion is better in the thread than in a PM. Google didn't even have to get involved in this one. dlj - 1, filecat - 0 wink.gif

To elaborate further, 2EQ, YPAO and MCACC all simplify setup. They take care of the part where you used to have to bust out the tape measure, stepped test tones, and SPL meter to set your gear up properly. They certainly make life better, making your $100 speakers sound like $200 speakers. MultEQ goes a step further and makes your speakers sound "correct" and tailored to your specific room. It works really hard to make all speakers regardless of cost sound exactly the same.

We have now entered the age where room correction software paired with any competently designed speaker is more important than speaker quality in the first place. In my case, I have considered upgrading my $600 year-2000 Energys with my pair of 2011 $100 subs and $100 transducer setup, but can't justify it. It would take roughly $2000 as a minimum to gain maybe a 5% performance upgrade. That $2000 could be spent on other cool stuff that has more effect to my experience, like my Wii U and the HTPC build I have in process.
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post #16 of 42 Old 12-06-2012, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darklordjames View Post

"I 'm also wanting to replace my 10+ year old receiver, so your post was very relevant to my situation..."
Huh, look at that. Instant proof that this discussion is better in the thread than in a PM. Google didn't even have to get involved in this one. dlj - 1, filecat - 0 wink.gif


Well, poop. I just lost $20 in the AVS troll pool tongue.gif


Just when I think I'm at least a somewhat contributing poster and not the only one simply stirring crap around here... you go and be all helpful.




Where's Basher when you need him? Won't someone start another light gun gaming thread where I can redeem myself?
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post #17 of 42 Old 12-06-2012, 08:33 PM
 
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I have a very low tolerance for people giving bad advice, a low tolerance for people that don't pay attention, and a low tolerance for products that act stupid. I also feel no obligation to make people feel warm and fuzzy about the product that they bought that has terrible design. Plus, I'm pretty blunt. People sometimes mistake that for trolling, but really I want everyone to have the correct information and the coolest toys possible. Cool toys are great! Crappy toys suck! smile.gif

In this case, it's a matter of maximum good. It's pretty obvious to me that helping two people with one post is better than one private post, where the second person never receives help. Someone coming along claiming that that is wrong and somehow a logical failure? Pff!
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post #18 of 42 Old 12-06-2012, 09:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the suggestions and advice. I ended up getting the Wii U first. We put it on our smaller* TV upstairs until we save up for the new receiver. After thinking about it, I realized that I preferred the sub-optimal gaming experience to having a new receiver and waiting for the games.

Also, I think I may have had the most pleasant setup experience thanks to reading this forum. Because of the complaints of the "hour long" update, I intentionally bought the system during my lunch break, ran home and started the setup so it'd be ready when I got off work. Worked great except for the game updates.

It shouldn't take me too long to save up for the receiver. Probably going to go with the Denon suggested by DLJ.

* funny how 50" looks small when you have a projector.
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post #19 of 42 Old 12-06-2012, 10:22 PM
 
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At a quick check, the Denon AVR-1713 still looks like a great choice. MultEQ XT, plus plenty of HDMI inputs. It doesn't do any analog-to-HDMI video conversion though, so if you still have any non-HDMI devices that is something to keep in mind. If you still have something like a component-only PS2 hooked up, it sure is nice if the receiver converts that's to HDMI for you so that you never have to change inputs on the TV. The AVR-1913 gives you video conversion, but then drops to regular MultEQ. The AVR-1613 is cheaper, drops to regular MultEQ, and loses a couple HDMI inputs. The 1713 is pretty much the happy medium. smile.gif

I picked up my Marantz NR1602 (basically a slim AVR-1912, same company) from these guys as a factory refurb. I have nothing but good things to say about them. The receiver forums here seem to like them, and they review well at places like resellerratings.com, last I saw.

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/DENAVR1713/DENON-AVR-1713-5.1ch-Networking-Receiver-w/AirPlay-3D-Ready/1.html#!more

It's just about the only way to easily save a chunk of cash on a receiver as industry-wide these things are pretty price-locked, like Bose and Apple products are.
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post #20 of 42 Old 12-07-2012, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurtiebird View Post

Thanks for all the suggestions and advice. I ended up getting the Wii U first. We put it on our smaller* TV upstairs until we save up for the new receiver. After thinking about it, I realized that I preferred the sub-optimal gaming experience to having a new receiver and waiting for the games.
Also, I think I may have had the most pleasant setup experience thanks to reading this forum. Because of the complaints of the "hour long" update, I intentionally bought the system during my lunch break, ran home and started the setup so it'd be ready when I got off work. Worked great except for the game updates.
It shouldn't take me too long to save up for the receiver. Probably going to go with the Denon suggested by DLJ.
* funny how 50" looks small when you have a projector.

I think others might disagree, but that's what I would have done too. wink.gif

And yes, IMO the new receiver should be a high priority item too. DLJ steered me to a Denon 2112ci earlier in the year, and he's right - Audyssey MultEQ is all that. I couldn't be happier with the improvement in sound, and switching over to a totally HDMI-based setup. Now I just need to get a TV with working HDMI ports! tongue.gif

Enjoy the Wii U, I sent you a message. I'll be looking for your balloons in New Super Mario Bros. Wii U.


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post #21 of 42 Old 12-07-2012, 07:13 AM
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I enjoy how often "Should I buy this thing?" advice threads are really secretly "I'm going to buy this thing" threads. biggrin.gif
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post #22 of 42 Old 12-08-2012, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darklordjames View Post

This is not an arguable fact.
.

And yet you feel compelled to argue about it. biggrin.gif

What I can afford, when I can afford it...
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post #23 of 42 Old 12-08-2012, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darklordjames View Post

"I 'm also wanting to replace my 10+ year old receiver, so your post was very relevant to my situation..."
Huh, look at that. Instant proof that this discussion is better in the thread than in a PM. Google didn't even have to get involved in this one. dlj - 1, filecat - 0 wink.gif

Gloating does become you. biggrin.gif

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post #24 of 42 Old 12-27-2012, 08:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darklordjames View Post

At a quick check, the Denon AVR-1713 still looks like a great choice. MultEQ XT, plus plenty of HDMI inputs. It doesn't do any analog-to-HDMI video conversion though, so if you still have any non-HDMI devices that is something to keep in mind. If you still have something like a component-only PS2 hooked up, it sure is nice if the receiver converts that's to HDMI for you so that you never have to change inputs on the TV. The AVR-1913 gives you video conversion, but then drops to regular MultEQ. The AVR-1613 is cheaper, drops to regular MultEQ, and loses a couple HDMI inputs. The 1713 is pretty much the happy medium. smile.gif
I picked up my Marantz NR1602 (basically a slim AVR-1912, same company) from these guys as a factory refurb. I have nothing but good things to say about them. The receiver forums here seem to like them, and they review well at places like resellerratings.com, last I saw.
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/DENAVR1713/DENON-AVR-1713-5.1ch-Networking-Receiver-w/AirPlay-3D-Ready/1.html#!more
It's just about the only way to easily save a chunk of cash on a receiver as industry-wide these things are pretty price-locked, like Bose and Apple products are.

Came into some extra cash, so I was able to buy a new receiver. I went with the one in your link, can't wait to get it. Will be awesome to have all the HDMI inputs, and I'm looking forward to improved surround sound.
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post #25 of 42 Old 12-27-2012, 09:06 PM
 
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If you don't already have one, then hop on Amazon and order up a cheap tripod to hold your mic while the calibration is running.

http://www.amazon.com/Sunpak-5200D-Tripod-620-520D/dp/B002DONEKO

Also in preparation, go read through the AVS Audyssey FAQ.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1/51720_60#post_21782993
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post #26 of 42 Old 12-29-2012, 09:25 PM
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Hey Kids, today's secret word is PARADOX.

DarkLordJames, can you illustrate today's word in a couple of quotes?
Quote:
I have a very low tolerance for people giving bad advice
Quote:
MultEQ ...works really hard to make all speakers regardless of cost sound exactly the same. We have now entered the age where room correction software paired with any competently designed speaker is more important than speaker quality in the first place.

smile.gif
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post #27 of 42 Old 12-29-2012, 11:49 PM
 
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bob - You get a gold star for the attempt at trolling, but fail pretty hard on the execution. Nothing I said was factually inaccurate. A decade ago you saw a sharp increase in audio quality from $10 to $100, a moderate increase from $100 to $1000, and a case of "in which way is this speaker intentionally wrong" at $1000+. Now incompetently designed $10-100 speakers are still garbage regardless of how much room correction you throw at them, $100-200 speakers all sound just about the same after you room correct them, and $200 and up speakers all sound just about the same after room correction software does it's thing, but not that much better than a $100 speaker.

Put another way, a competent $500 speaker package like the Take 5.1 paired up with a $350 receiver running MultEQ sounds better than a $2000 speaker package on a $1000 receiver with no room correction. Or, correction software on relatively cheap hardware now produces better audio than the most extravagent of systems from a decade ago.

Again, pair a competent speaker design up with modern correction software and you rapidly hit the wall on what humans can discern. Anyone telling you otherwise has something to sell you, is vastly overrating their human audio subsystem, or still believes in "magic" when it comes to speaker design.

A speaker is a cone in a box pushing air. There is nothing magic about it. Software now takes a wide range of speaker designs and finally makes them "correct" in the same way instead of a wide variety of "incorrect".

I look forward to your next troll attempt, bob.
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post #28 of 42 Old 12-31-2012, 09:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Guys, let's please not turn this thread into a pissing match. Especially since there's so much useful information here.

DLJ, thanks a lot for the great advice. I got the Denon 1713, plugged it in, ran through the setup, and wow, what a huge difference. I had given up fighting with my old receiver to try to get the sound correct. I'm also thrilled to be able to do away with the extra audio cables and my HDMI switch (for now at least). Plus I can now play Wii U on my projector.

My dream is to someday build a dedicated home theater, but for now it seems a long way off financially. At least for now I have a decent setup that I can really enjoy.
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post #29 of 42 Old 12-31-2012, 10:39 AM
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I tried out WiiU for the first time this past weekend at Bestbuy (Rayman legends demo). Game was absolutely gorgeous to look at, was also pleasantly surprised by the gamepad screen. I did find going back and forth between the display monitor and the gamepad a little jarring and gimmicky, but overall a good experience. Must admit I got a kick out of seeing Mario in HD *finally*......

Too many systems and games....not enough time or money!

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post #30 of 42 Old 12-31-2012, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darklordjames View Post

bob - You get a gold star for the attempt at trolling, but fail pretty hard on the execution. Nothing I said was factually inaccurate. A decade ago you saw a sharp increase in audio quality from $10 to $100, a moderate increase from $100 to $1000, and a case of "in which way is this speaker intentionally wrong" at $1000+. Now incompetently designed $10-100 speakers are still garbage regardless of how much room correction you throw at them, $100-200 speakers all sound just about the same after you room correct them, and $200 and up speakers all sound just about the same after room correction software does it's thing, but not that much better than a $100 speaker.
Put another way, a competent $500 speaker package like the Take 5.1 paired up with a $350 receiver running MultEQ sounds better than a $2000 speaker package on a $1000 receiver with no room correction. Or, correction software on relatively cheap hardware now produces better audio than the most extravagent of systems from a decade ago.
Again, pair a competent speaker design up with modern correction software and you rapidly hit the wall on what humans can discern. Anyone telling you otherwise has something to sell you, is vastly overrating their human audio subsystem, or still believes in "magic" when it comes to speaker design.
A speaker is a cone in a box pushing air. There is nothing magic about it. Software now takes a wide range of speaker designs and finally makes them "correct" in the same way instead of a wide variety of "incorrect".
I look forward to your next troll attempt, bob.

A couple of years ago you'd have me saying nearly the same thing. But after years of experience with various room corrections (multeq, multeq XT, MCACC, ARC) and treatments (absorbers)....room correction is way oversold. It's usually better to have it than not, but it isn't magic that makes $100 speakers sound like $1000 ones. Even the term room correction is a misnomer - it should really be called room compensation, because correction implies it can achieve a perfect result, when simply isn't possible, no matter what audyssey says.

That being said.....don't buy a Wii U yet. tongue.gif

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