Official Wii U discussion thread. - Page 25 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #721 of 1614 Old 08-07-2013, 10:02 AM
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I missed it. I look forward to the W101 direct though. I love the style of that game. Hopefully the gameplay lives up to the videos. I remember a few people like dlj saying the earlier demos were boring.
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post #722 of 1614 Old 08-07-2013, 10:28 AM
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The thing with Nintendo is it took 6 years to catch up hardware wise and now MS and Sony are moving to the next gen. Sure the original was successful to a point but those motion controls on the Wii ended up being more gimmick than anything else. The better implementations of those controls on Kinect and Move are considered gimmick also and the sales have been lackluster. Now I like Nintendo but their power is in their character line-up. I would not be surprised to see the WiiU be the last console from Nintendo.

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post #723 of 1614 Old 08-07-2013, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toknow****a View Post

I would not be surprised to see the WiiU be the last console from Nintendo.

I doubt it. If anything you may see Nintendo go back to releasing consoles technologically on-par with their competitors( last done with the Gamecube), and drop the whole 'different way to control' thing they started with the original Wii.

Too many systems and games....not enough time or money!

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post #724 of 1614 Old 08-07-2013, 01:03 PM
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I think people have been predicting Nintendo leaving the consoles business for literally 20 years now.
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post #725 of 1614 Old 08-07-2013, 01:07 PM
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I think people have been predicting Nintendo leaving the consoles business for literally 20 years now.

Since 1985 actually, so 28 years they have been doomed in the console business, doomed as a company since 1889.

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post #726 of 1614 Old 08-07-2013, 01:20 PM
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I hope that art academy game's still free like they said

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post #727 of 1614 Old 08-07-2013, 03:45 PM
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Wonder 101 Review - Guardian It's nice to see some good use of the gamepad outside of off tv play.
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If Pikmin 3, Nintendo's great summer hope for its beleaguered Wii U console, has you directing a herd of miniature helpers, The Wonderful 101, the company's leftfield, summer sleeper-hit-in-waiting, puts you in control of an angry mob. In both games you sweep through the landscape as a hustling cluster of bodies. In both games you use this crowd's wisdom and strength to create pathways to your objectives, and to eliminate the foes and obstacles in your way.

But only in The Wonderful 101 can you, with a delicate swipe of the finger, arrange your swarm into a giant pink spiked whip used to tear the armour from your opponents, or a pea green handgun used to launch your minions as a kind of fleshy ammunition, or even a Soviet hammer that pounds the concrete in a thick Russian accent. If Pikmin 3 is the Gardener's World of ponderous strategy games, The Wonderful 101 is police helicopter footage of a sweltering Los Angeles riot.

The two games have an opposed sort of symmetry. Pikmin 3 takes place in the undergrowth of an uninhabited planet, The Wonderful 101 resides in the pocked streets and suburbs of a besieged city. In one you play as hapless alien invaders, working with the natives in order to figure out how to exit terra firma as soon as possible. In the other, you play as the indigenous warriors themselves, all decked out in 1970s Japanese superhero spandex, attempting to shoo away the raiding thrusts of the so-called Geathjerk space invaders.

The premise and styling is as wild-eyed as anything to come from Platinum Games, the most boisterous of Japan's contemporary video-game developers. The titular 101 is a group of topflight superheroes plucked from each of the world's nations. Each individual has his or her own unique styling and ability, but this is a game about the power of co-operation, not individual might. The swarm might be composed of individuals, but it must act as a single entity. Using either the Wii U pad's touchscreen or one of its stiff analogue sticks, you can shepherd your mob into esoteric tools and weapons by tracing shapes. The larger the shape you draw, the greater the number of superheroes who add their bodies to its formation.

As well as the purely destructive properties of your mob (and, apart from buildings and larger structures, much of the environments are destructible) they can be used to surround certain objects and people in order to bring restoration. In this way wilted flowerbeds can be made to blossom (yielding bonus items in the regeneration), humble pedestrians can be inspired to temporarily join the 101's ranks and, wearied enemies can even be recruited to your side.

Platinum's talent for the set piece is brought to the fore by way of the game's chosen style, that of the 'Tokusatsu' – the genre of special effect-heavy Japanese TV shows and films that include Godzilla and Kamen Rider. In this way, play is routinely interrupted for an outrageous and delightfully inventive gameplay intermission as you, for example, fire giant baseballs into an alien's face on a baseball field, or use your mob to tickle a 50-foot robot's underarm, or morph into a giant hang-glider and tear through the whipping wind collecting upgrade tokens.

It's in these moments that Platinum displays a mastery of the Wii U hardware hitherto unseen, even in Nintendo's homegrown titles. One especially memorable section has you controlling a giant spacecraft on the television screen by marshalling the 101 onto directional pressure pads in a cockpit that's rendered on the Wii U pad's screen. If this weren't enough to juggle, you must simultaneously battle enemies in both the cockpit on the pad and in the skies on the TV screen. It is a genuinely novel gameplay invention and gives a true taste of the Wii U's untapped potential and promise.

But all of this unbridled creativity comes at the cost of some refinement. The scrappiness of the action extends upwards and outwards throughout the entire game, which struggles to marshal its ambitions and ideas into a perfectly coherent whole. An alchemy system allows you to create new items from collected pieces of fruit, although its workings are left unexplained; each of the 101 you collect can be levelled up individually, although its unclear what benefits this brings to the whole. New moves and attacks unlock seemingly at random and the means of exposing the game's intermittent in-situ bonus levels is opaque.

Finally, the game's tall difficulty belies its accessible aesthetic: make no mistake, this is a far more demanding proposition than its Pikmin cousin. And yet, these are the hallmarks that make Platinum's output some of the most exciting work in contemporary video games: scruffy invention in a playpen that allows for player mastery. In the midst of this riot of ideas and unrefined energy we can perceive some of the Wii U system's idiosyncratic wonder. It may not be a game to sell a system, but The Wonderful 101 provides ample justification for Nintendo's eccentric hardware.
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post #728 of 1614 Old 08-08-2013, 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by dragonyeuw View Post

I doubt it. If anything you may see Nintendo go back to releasing consoles technologically on-par with their competitors( last done with the Gamecube), and drop the whole 'different way to control' thing they started with the original Wii.

Not much third party support and many titles coming from Nintendo are just retreads of past hits. The only bright spot for Nintendo right now is the 3DS.
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post #729 of 1614 Old 08-08-2013, 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted by dragonyeuw View Post

I doubt it. If anything you may see Nintendo go back to releasing consoles technologically on-par with their competitors( last done with the Gamecube), and drop the whole 'different way to control' thing they started with the original Wii.

Nintendo had stated in the past they can't keep up in the marketing numbers game.

Sony and Microsoft have other businesses that make it easier to take risks. Nintendo is one console failure away from being the next Sega.

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post #730 of 1614 Old 08-08-2013, 01:39 AM
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Not much third party support and many titles coming from Nintendo are just retreads of past hits. The only bright spot for Nintendo right now is the 3DS.

Which has been the case for how long, now? Nintendo hasn't enjoyed really great third party support since the SNES. How many generations ago was that again? The entire gaming industry is stuck in retread and sequelitis mode. How many God of Wars, Uncharteds, Halos, Guitar Heroes, and by god Call of Duty titles have we been flooded with over the years?

I'm not saying that I don't want to see Nintendo take risks, but they know where their bread is buttered. Mario and Zelda have dedicated fanbases, as does Mario Kart, as does Smash Bros, as does Pokemon, and to lesser degrees Metroid, Starfox, F-zero, Fire Emblem etc. The fact is that at most you will see only 1 version of a particular franchise per console generation: there are typically only 1-2 main mario titles, F-zero hasn't been seen since gamecube, the n64 skipped Metroid and Punchout, we've only had 3 main Zeldas in the past decade( Windwaker, Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword). Now, since this console gen started let's count the number of Halo titles: Halo 3, ODST, Wars, Reach, Anniversary, Halo 4. Did I miss anything?
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Too many systems and games....not enough time or money!

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post #731 of 1614 Old 08-08-2013, 01:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toknow****a View Post

Nintendo is one console failure away from being the next Sega.

Not remotely close. Sega was their own worst enemy, releasing the Sega CD, 32x, Saturn, all within a 5 year period, and abandoning all of them after a short while. Consumer confidence in Sega was shot when the Dreamcast launched, which in terms of hardware and games they got very right, but it was too late. They were already bleeding cash by then, and there was this little thing called 'Playstation' on the market pushing them into further irrelevance.

The Wii, Ds and now the 3Ds were/are major money makers for Nintendo. Just as you say Sony and MS have other ventures to lean on, right now the Wii U is being propped by 3ds, but I predict it will slowly grow strong enough legs to walk on its own once more titles come out. If the next major Mario title, Kart, Zelda, Smash Bros launches and sales are still stagnant, THEN let's talk about the Wii U being Nintendo's swan song for the home console industry. It is simply way too soon to make such a doom and gloom prediction and again, the analogy with Sega in terms of why they exited the hardware business couldn't be more off.

Too many systems and games....not enough time or money!

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post #732 of 1614 Old 08-08-2013, 03:36 AM
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Dont feed the troll
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post #733 of 1614 Old 08-08-2013, 04:06 AM
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http://kotaku.com/why-nintendo-doesnt-want-to-give-its-games-to-rivals-1064129010

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post #734 of 1614 Old 08-08-2013, 05:37 AM
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Because $$$

You'll notice everyone's suggestion that Nintendo "go third party" is to save them buying another system.
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post #735 of 1614 Old 08-08-2013, 05:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moothemagiccow View Post

Because $$$

You'll notice everyone's suggestion that Nintendo "go third party" is to save them buying another system.

Exactly, and interestingly enough you don't see too many clamoring for Sony and MS exclusives on Nintendo consoles. Nintendo IMHO still has the most famous characters in gaming. Ask the average non-gamer who Nathan Drake or Kratos is, probably won't have a clue. Now ask them 'who is Super Mario', instant recognition and they'll likely hum the damn theme song if asked.

Nintendo isn't going anywhere.
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Too many systems and games....not enough time or money!

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post #736 of 1614 Old 08-08-2013, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by dragonyeuw View Post

Not remotely close. Sega was their own worst enemy, releasing the Sega CD, 32x, Saturn, all within a 5 year period, and abandoning all of them after a short while. Consumer confidence in Sega was shot when the Dreamcast launched, which in terms of hardware and games they got very right, but it was too late. They were already bleeding cash by then, and there was this little thing called 'Playstation' on the market pushing them into further irrelevance.

The Wii, Ds and now the 3Ds were/are major money makers for Nintendo. Just as you say Sony and MS have other ventures to lean on, right now the Wii U is being propped by 3ds, but I predict it will slowly grow strong enough legs to walk on its own once more titles come out. If the next major Mario title, Kart, Zelda, Smash Bros launches and sales are still stagnant, THEN let's talk about the Wii U being Nintendo's swan song for the home console industry. It is simply way too soon to make such a doom and gloom prediction and again, the analogy with Sega in terms of why they exited the hardware business couldn't be more off.
Pretty upset that I can't give this a thumbs-up more than once.

I'm starting to get kinda hyped for W101. Looks like it's got some Viewtiful Joe in its blood. The more I see of it, the more it comes off as the kinda stupidly fun, if flawed, game that I love even if reviewers don't.
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post #737 of 1614 Old 08-08-2013, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by moothemagiccow View Post

Because $$$

You'll notice everyone's suggestion that Nintendo "go third party" is to save them buying another system.

that is not true at all. I owned all 3 systems last gen and eventually will own all 3 this gen. If Nintendo had a better online presence, better specs and better 3rd party support, there could be some real awesome games made for wiiU, the reason the SNES was so great (ps2, etc..) was because of all the games, IMO there is really no games that make buying a wiiU worth it at this point. The question is how far down do wiiU sales have to go before people will stop blindly defending nintendo?

also so if that is true, you think it is a bad thing that someone would want to play games like assassins creed, BF, COD, fallout, etc.. on their next gen console?? i didn't know that wanting to play multiplatform games on your next gen console was a "bad thing"...
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post #738 of 1614 Old 08-08-2013, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by moothemagiccow View Post

Because $$$

You'll notice everyone's suggestion that Nintendo "go third party" is to save them buying another system.

I disagree to some extent- there's a lot of lazy folks who just want to play Mario on PS4, sure, but there's a metric ton of ways Ninty could use the expansion into other platforms to gain major benefit. Benefits that other gaming companies only dream of having in their back pocket. I may have already posted this in one comment or another, but Nintendo could really take a bite out of MS & Sony's current dominance if they ever made a calculated move to extended platforms.

Nintendo has hands-down the most iconic figures in gaming. Outside Pac Man there's few characters as famous as Mario, Donkey Kong, Link, Pikachu- no one wants a Lara Croft cereal, a Ratchet and Clank Saturday morning cartoon show, a Master Chief lunch box... but that's Nintendo's wheelhouse. But unlike Ninty, MS, Sony and especially Sega have demonstrated they can generate successful licensing of their IP's without paralyzing fear of destroying their business models and brand image, so they're making easy money and gaining value in areas where Nintendo could curb stomp them if they were trying. Something as simple as a SMB port on iOS? It'll be the number one app for a year, no question to me. Even if it's not F2P, so many people want it that badly. I already have it on NES, SNES (All Stars) and Wii VC, but I'd buy it again in a heartbeat so I can play it proudly on the can...

There's no compelling reason to outright cannibalize their own eShop offerings or totally stop making consoles and go third party, but Nintendo could do a lot to gain investor confidence, generate revenue AND bring much-needed awareness to their consoles and new releases with a focused, minimalist approach to untapped areas.

Offer some unique titles not available on VC, interconnected content or alternate gameplay models from profitable IP's on mobile platforms and ensure they're tied directly into their better, longer, more interesting console cousins (sold only on your first party hardware). Some (all?) of these efforts would require real “unprecedented partnership” with someone who knows what they hell they're doing- something Nintendo doesn't do well. That whole EA thing obviously didn't work out, time to open the war chest and get someone on board who can help you make money and at a rapid speed to market. Oh, and maybe make an online system that people want to use (god, Nintendo is bad at this). Monster Hunter? Huge on Nintendo hardware, and available on iOS. No one stopped buying it on consoles. A few more forays into the space could be really, really good for Nintendo, something like:



  • Just bought Super Mario iOS? Great! You just unlocked a new kart in MK8! [Click Here] to redeem (What?! You don't own a Wii U? Here's a list of retailers nearby based on your geolocation- and, hey, here's a $10 e-coupon scanable at checkout if you buy today)
  • Thanks for downloading Donkey Kong's Swing Course! Challenge your friends to beat your high score on [Facebook], and don't forget to post your achievements on Miiverse! This month only, unlock an exclusive new level by registering a copy of NintendoLand at ClubNintendo.com and syncing your account with your iTunes profile. For more info on NintendoLand and Donkey Kong's Crash Course exclusively for Wii U, [click here]!

  • Pokemon fan, you say? Pokemon:Online combines the fun of Pokemon with the connectivity of MMO's, all in the palm of your hand on iOS and Android. Pokemon:Online offers players a massive (B2P) world where they can train Pokemon, gain level ups and battle with anyone, anytime, worldwide. Trainers: import your Pokemon directly into Pokemon X/Y, available now for 3DS by [clicking here]! And don't forget to upgrade to the all new, limited-edition iPokeball iPhone this holiday, which includes 3 new exclusive Pokemon not available as DLC!

  • Welcome to the Wonderful 101 YouTube channel - Your exclusive source for the original Web Series "The Wonderful 101: Blossom City Beat". New episodes are available every week; Follow the adventures of Wonder Red, Blue, Green, Pink and White as they defend the citizens of Blossom City and restore peace to our planet! Be sure to check out our all other videos, including the exclusive new gameplay trailer of Metroid: Dread U right here!




Epic is making money hand over fist with Infinity Blade - they gained 6 million new players last month when it went free during the app store 5th anniversary promo- and they're capitalizing on the Unreal engine by creating 'scalable games' that they just rebuild for different platforms. Nintendo doesn't have a "New Super Engine" to just plug and play like that, but they could absolutely create simple mobile games that are similar in gameplay but differentiated in scope and content... that's basically the "New Super Mario XX" formula anyway, FFS.


Save the crippling embarrassment and humiliation that they're so afraid of by simply ignoring Xbox, PS and PC completely but dip a toe firmly into the mobile market. I'm certain some consumers would pass on 3DS or Wii U VC versions of games and choose to buy Ninty apps only on mobile, so there is genuine risk... But there's also a GIANT market of people who have no interest in (or will never buy) a 3DS or Wii U who would line up to buy Nintendo games on a platform they already own. Every kid in the world has a phone- sell him your games, and maybe even make a sale on a new console or retail game in the process.


Ninty needs the PR and advertisement as much as the sales right now, they're doing almost nothing that's catching on with the general public (didn't even know there were Pikmin commercials). Outside we game nerds, how many average consumers really see Nintendo Directs? How many people can even tell you what E3 is, or what was shown this year? Halo is getting a TV series, Tomb Raider is a popular movie franchise, Sonic is one of the biggest apps on iOS. And even though none of those are as popular as their console counterparts, they keep them all in the public spotlight and drive attention to the IP on consoles. There's gonna be an ad for XBONE every commercial break during Halo: The TV Series... You know it.



TL;DR: Nintendo has so many options to utilize their IP's on mobile without dilluting their brands or exiting the console space. They just need serious help seeing the value in that decision.
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post #739 of 1614 Old 08-08-2013, 04:33 PM
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That ain't "going third party."
That's marketing. Pitching it to AVSF won't do much.
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. The question is how far down do wiiU sales have to go before people will stop blindly defending nintendo?

Wii U sales don't affect my enjoyment of the console at all. And I see the comeback: "Wii U sales affect third party support," but I don't think that's true. The console had third parties (Ubisoft, really) for 3 months. Blogs continued to throw headlines like "Game XYZ not coming to Wii U" all this year, as if the decision wasn't made 1 or 2 years ago, as if making a port takes a couple weeks.

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post #740 of 1614 Old 08-08-2013, 07:03 PM
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It's not like game developers were unaware of Wii's successor 1 or 2 years ago either. I just don't see success for Nintendo in the future. They have a niche with their family friendly titles. Look I like some Nintendo stuff but if the Wii U is a major failure I don't see how Nintendo can continue to compete in the console business.

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post #741 of 1614 Old 08-08-2013, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Toknow****a View Post

It's not like game developers were unaware of Wii's successor 1 or 2 years ago either. I just don't see success for Nintendo in the future. They have a niche with their family friendly titles. Look I like some Nintendo stuff but if the Wii U is a major failure I don't see how Nintendo can continue to compete in the console business.

So long as they continue to post a profit they will not be going anywhere. Even in the Gamecube era they were making craploads of money.

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post #742 of 1614 Old 08-09-2013, 02:14 AM
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post #743 of 1614 Old 08-09-2013, 03:45 AM
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So he's basically suggesting we just throw down $60 based on screenshots and box art?

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post #744 of 1614 Old 08-09-2013, 05:42 AM
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Quote:
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Look I like some Nintendo stuff but if the Wii U is a major failure I don't see how Nintendo can continue to compete in the console business.

Until the day comes where a proper 3d Mario, Smash Bros, Mario Kart, Pokemon, Zelda, Metroid fails to generate significant hardware sales, you're worrying prematurely. Each of those IP's have built-in fanbases,to varying degrees. Those franchises would literally have to cease being relevant for a Nintendo console to outright fail. What I mainly blame them for is not having a few good first party titles at launch. Wonderful 101 and/or Pikmin 3 should have have been launch titles, maybe even Windwaker( yes it's an 'old' title but there's always a new generation of gamers coming along who haven't played it yet). Thinking about it now, it's too bad Metroid Prime Trilogy was released for Wii because that would have been an ideal 'HD upgrade' gapfiller. Actually, more on that, given the scarcity of MPT it would be nice if Nintendo did another printing, upgrading to HD would likely be out of the question though I'd personally buy it day one.

I probably sound like some hardcore Nintendo apologist, I'm not. I've owned just about every major home console since the Colecovison, seen plenty of consoles sizzle and fizzle along the way. Things look bleak for the Wii U now because in this information age, we're getting pounded upside the head with weekly sales reports, adding to the hysteria and making for juicy conversation. It's really starting to suck the joy out of the hobby, I long for the days when the conversation was just ' Sega rockz! Nintendo suckz OMGLZ!' wink.gif
DaverJ, |Tch0rT| and TeflonSoul like this.

Too many systems and games....not enough time or money!

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post #745 of 1614 Old 08-09-2013, 06:24 AM
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So he's basically suggesting we just throw down $60 based on screenshots and box art?

I was more into the sales figures point, like we all need to rush out and get Madden and CoD, but..

I'd say there's more to games than their metacritic score. I've hated well-reviewed games and loved games with mediocre ratings. A lot of people put too much weight behind the numbers. People will post in the comments "was hoping for an 8, too bad" or "6? this is a solid 9" as if the system makes sense beyond higher = better. Not sure if that's what he means, but sounds like it to me.

I find it ironic that the site that translated this has a sidebar of games with numerical ratings next to them.

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post #746 of 1614 Old 08-09-2013, 06:43 AM
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I was more into the sales figures point, like we all need to rush out and get Madden and CoD, but..

I'd say there's more to games than their metacritic score. I've hated well-reviewed games and loved games with mediocre ratings. A lot of people put too much weight behind the numbers. People will post in the comments "was hoping for an 8, too bad" or "6? this is a solid 9" as if the system makes sense beyond higher = better. Not sure if that's what he means, but sounds like it to me.

I find it ironic that the site that translated this has a sidebar of games with numerical ratings next to them.

I never heard of anyone saying "I heard this game sold well, so I'm going to buy it."

If a game is popular, it's usually because its a great game with a wide appeal. It's just that not every game is for every person. A lot of people clearly love madden. But I'm not into that type of game, so why should I be bothered its popular?

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post #747 of 1614 Old 08-09-2013, 07:50 AM
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That ain't "going third party."
That's marketing. Pitching it to AVSF won't do much.

Oh, I know. My (rather drawn out) point was that 'third party' doesn't necessarily mean 'Mario on Xbox!1!!'. Outsource the ever loving scheisse out of your IPs and get them onto mobile, and outsource/partner your online with someone who can make a community people want to use and integrates fully with mobile & existing social media. Third party, to me, means Ninty sells Mario everywhere they can that doesn't directly compete with their own hardware interests. Tie it all up with some well-integrated marketing strategy and you're giving people reasons to buy more than a $0.99 app.

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I never heard of anyone saying "I heard this game sold well, so I'm going to buy it."

If a game is popular, it's usually because its a great game with a wide appeal. It's just that not every game is for every person. A lot of people clearly love madden. But I'm not into that type of game, so why should I be bothered its popular?


Maybe not on sales numbers alone, but I know more people who buy based on a game's perceived success than I'd like to admit. You're right, no one has looked at a Madden game and thought "wow, so new!" in 15 years... but people buy 'em anyway because they get tons of hype. Same for CoD and the like... there's a whole contingent of people who will buy a game just because it's popular, and another who will buy games (usually day 1) just because of the franchise's popularity or genre. Sales lead to sales, so to speak.

Don't get me started on Metacritic. I could give two cents about what most reviewers think, my personal friends and like-minded online forum gamers (like you guys) have a lot more impact on my purchases.
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post #748 of 1614 Old 08-09-2013, 08:32 AM
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Same for CoD and the like... there's a whole contingent of people who will buy a game just because it's popular, and another who will buy games (usually day 1) just because of the franchise's popularity or genre. Sales lead to sales, so to speak.

I suppose that does explain why there's like 20,000 Mario games. smile.gif

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post #749 of 1614 Old 08-09-2013, 09:52 AM
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Apparently there'll be a Wonderful 101 demo out later today.

I also picked up the $4 Art Academy game, which has just flummoxed me with its potential.
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

I never heard of anyone saying "I heard this game sold well, so I'm going to buy it."

If a game is popular, it's usually because its a great game with a wide appeal. It's just that not every game is for every person. A lot of people clearly love madden. But I'm not into that type of game, so why should I be bothered its popular?

Agreed, so why are game blogs constantly posting sales figures?

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post #750 of 1614 Old 08-09-2013, 10:46 AM
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Agreed, so why are game blogs constantly posting sales figures?

Because a lot of people who are into video games are curious about what's selling and what isn't.

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