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post #91 of 1442 Old 02-04-2013, 10:48 AM
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http://www.chipworks.com/blog/technologyblog/2013/02/04/looking-at-the-wii-u-graphics-processor/

I know spec talk can lead to flame wars and the like, but this is too interesting to pass up on posting.

A snip from the link above.

But every once in a while something really interesting happens. This is one of those times.

Late last week we discovered a gaming message board called Neogaf where they were crowd-sourcing funds to buy die photos of the multi-chip CPU/GPU package in the Nintendo Wii U. They had raised enough to purchase top metal die photos of the CPU, the GPU and the tiny NOR memory chip.

 

To a manufacturer of said chips, these types of top metal die images are useful, but for the purposes of analyzing the specifications, you need to go a little lower and look at the polysilicon layer. Rather than have the community continue to raise money, we thought we would step-in and help out. Since (at the time of publication for this blog) we are only 1 day away from the release of Dead Space 3, we thought that the gaming community might be able to put their funds to better use.

End snip.

Soon we will know a whole lot more than we currently do about the power of the Wii U.

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post #92 of 1442 Old 02-05-2013, 06:10 PM
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More from the GPU stripdown

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=511628

Jim Morrison over at Chipworks (the reverse engineering company that scanned the chip) has some insight from his professional experience:

"Been reading some of the comments on your thread and have a few of my own to use as you wish.

1. This GPU is custom.
2. If it was based on ATI/AMD or a Radeon-like design, the chip would carry die marks to reflect that. Everybody has to recognize the licensing. It has none. Only Renesas name which is a former unit of NEC.
3. This chip is fabricated in a 40 nm advanced CMOS process at TSMC and is not low tech
4. For reference sake, the Apple A6 is fabricated in a 32 nm CMOS process and is also designed from scratch. It’s manufacturing costs, in volumes of 100k or more, about $26 - $30 a pop. Over 16 months degrade to about $15 each
a. Wii U only represents like 30M units per annum vs iPhone which is more like 100M units per annum. Put things in perspective.
5. This Wii U GPU costs more than that by about $20-$40 bucks each making it a very expensive piece of kit. Combine that with the IBM CPU and the Flash chip all on the same package and this whole thing is closer to $100 a piece when you add it all up
6. The Wii U main processor package is a very impressive piece of hardware when its said and done.

Trust me on this. It may not have water cooling and heat sinks the size of a brownie, but its one slick piece of silicon. eDRAM is not cheap to make. That is why not everybody does it. Cause its so dam expensive."


Add to that, they are now doing the same for the CPU as there are a lot of unknowns on the chip due to how customized it is and how the GPU and CPU work together. 30% of the GPU die is still an unknown as well. Any comparisons to existing chips are worthless.

Digital Foundry found the thread on Neogaf that was doing the analysis and took a few posts and rushed out an article, which was debunked by chipworks statements shortly after it was posted. Neogaf members were not happy with the article either.

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post #93 of 1442 Old 02-05-2013, 07:43 PM
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Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

What I can afford, when I can afford it...
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post #94 of 1442 Old 02-05-2013, 08:27 PM
 
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PEN - a link to where you're quoting from really helps with context.
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post #95 of 1442 Old 02-05-2013, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darklordjames View Post

PEN - a link to where you're quoting from really helps with context.

Whoops, forgot to add it.

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=511628

I added it to my post above for context.

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post #96 of 1442 Old 02-06-2013, 09:09 AM - Thread Starter
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This is smart. LINK


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post #97 of 1442 Old 02-06-2013, 09:37 AM
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This is smart. LINK


So the Europe bundle is at least coming to Canada? Maybe the Monster Hunter Japanese bundle will also make the jump...

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post #98 of 1442 Old 02-06-2013, 10:01 AM - Thread Starter
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I doubt it. I'm guessing they think the zombie genre will be a bigger hit in North America. Guess we'll see.
Great bundle for sure. I'm hearing it also includes Nintendo Land.

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post #99 of 1442 Old 02-06-2013, 10:54 AM
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Damn, a Pro Controller AND Nintendoland, on top of ZombiU? That's quite a deal for $50 extra.
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post #100 of 1442 Old 02-06-2013, 10:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Damn, a Pro Controller AND Nintendoland, on top of ZombiU? That's quite a deal for $50 extra.
Agreed. I so would have picked up this bundle if I didn't already have it. Great deal.

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post #101 of 1442 Old 02-06-2013, 03:13 PM
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This pretty much proves that a NSMBU bundle will happen this year... at least that is what I am hoping for.
Having that ready for Christmas in large numbers will lead to some impressive sales numbers.

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post #102 of 1442 Old 02-06-2013, 04:26 PM
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So the corporate denial of price cuts remains true. Instead, more and better bundles for a bit more money...

What I can afford, when I can afford it...
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post #103 of 1442 Old 02-06-2013, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filecat13 View Post

So the corporate denial of price cuts remains true. Instead, more and better bundles for a bit more money...
Microsoft and Sony have proven this model works better than actual price drops, it is no surprise to see Nintendo trying it out as well.

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post #104 of 1442 Old 02-07-2013, 09:54 AM
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From eurogamer, Rayman Legends to go multi-platform......




All versions delayed to September for simultaneous PS3, Wii U and Xbox 360 launch.

By Tom Phillips Published Thursday, 7 February 2013

Rayman Legends is no longer a Wii U exclusive, publisher Ubisoft has announced.

The cel-shaded Rayman Origins sequel will now also be released on Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3.

All versions of the game will be released simultaneously in September, marking a significant delay for the Wii U incarnation.

The game was originally intended to be a Wii U launch title, and a demo version was made available at the end of last year. A new release date was then set for 26th February, just weeks away.

"We heard from many Xbox and Playstation owners and Rayman fans who told us they really wanted to play Rayman Legends on their current system," explained Ubisoft's European marketing exec Geoffroy Sardin.

"We decided to give the fans what they wanted while at the same time broadening the audience exposed to this innovative and memorable game."

It marks the second loss of a Wii U exclusive in as many days. Yesterday it was revealed that the Wii U version of Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge would also be released for PS3 and Xbox 360 - and with extra content.





While I'm not surprised that it's going multiplat, I question the wisdom of delaying the Wii U version considering there aren't a ton of titles out yet and Legends seemed to be on many people's wishlist. I think the title would have sold much better on the Wii U now, as opposed to September with the next-gen xbox and PS consoles around the corner and other big-name titles coming out then.

Too many systems and games....not enough time or money!

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post #105 of 1442 Old 02-07-2013, 10:15 AM
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That's messed up on Ubi's part. The demo has been out for months and it was supposed to release in a few weeks. There is no way I'll buying this in September with GTA V releasing plus next gen coming.
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post #106 of 1442 Old 02-07-2013, 10:18 AM
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Trying not to read too much into it, but does this show the developer's lack of faith in profitability for a Wii U-only title? confused.gif
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post #107 of 1442 Old 02-07-2013, 11:06 AM
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Wow, that sucks and is incredibly stupid. It seems pretty much ready to go on Wii U now -- why not release it now and follow up with the ports in September?
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post #108 of 1442 Old 02-07-2013, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
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That is really bad news. My daughter was really looking forward to this one. As was I.
Why delay it for the Wii U? That just doesn't seem right.

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post #109 of 1442 Old 02-07-2013, 11:41 AM
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Very annoyed with that move, in fact Rayman Legends was the one title out or coming out that was prompting me to buy the Wii U sooner rather than later. There's a few titles on the console I would buy but none are system sellers to me.

Origins was released in November 2011 amidst a sea of blockbuster titles and only caught a second wind later on due to word of mouth. And so now they're going to release Legends in the same month as Grand Theft Auto and when people are getting their budgets together for the next gen consoles. Bad move IMHO....this now seems destined to be relegated to 'I'll get it when it hits $20' status instead of being in the crosshairs of many Wii U owners.

Too many systems and games....not enough time or money!

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post #110 of 1442 Old 02-07-2013, 11:50 AM
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Yep, this game just went from a $60 day one buy to a I'll get it for $20 a year from now title.

Ubisoft just doomed the game to sell poorly on every system instead of selling a million units to Wii U owners looking for games.

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post #111 of 1442 Old 02-07-2013, 11:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Yep, this game just went from a $60 day one buy to a I'll get it for $20 a year from now title.

Ubisoft just doomed the game to sell poorly on every system instead of selling a million units to Wii U owners looking for games.
Exactly. Just seems like a really dumb move.

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post #112 of 1442 Old 02-07-2013, 12:01 PM
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Ubisoft just doomed the game to sell poorly on every system instead of selling a million units to Wii U owners looking for games.

Bingo!

Too many systems and games....not enough time or money!

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post #113 of 1442 Old 02-07-2013, 12:12 PM
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Wow, that sucks and is incredibly stupid. It seems pretty much ready to go on Wii U now -- why not release it now and follow up with the ports in September?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kysersose View Post

That is really bad news. My daughter was really looking forward to this one. As was I.
Why delay it for the Wii U? That just doesn't seem right.

Seems right to Ubi- they obviously don't think the U has enough legs to offset dev costs... now to see how long before Bayonetta II goes multi-plat
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post #114 of 1442 Old 02-07-2013, 12:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Seems right to Ubi- they obviously don't think the U has enough legs to offset dev costs... now to see how long before Bayonetta II goes multi-plat
Why not release to the U as planned, then to the rest a few months down the road? That's the part that doesn't make sense. The Wii U version is ready and owners are biting at the bit to get some games.
Come September Wii U owners might not care as much.

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post #115 of 1442 Old 02-07-2013, 12:19 PM
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Yeah, I'm not against the porting itself, but I don't see the point of delaying the Wii U version over half a year just to release it alongside the ports. Seems to me they could make MORE money from the the Wii U version by releasing it as originally scheduled (during a slow month, as a timed exclusive), then make the same amount of money on the ports regardless.

As for Bayonetta, I believe Nintendo is publishing that themselves, so it's not going anywhere.
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post #116 of 1442 Old 02-07-2013, 12:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, I'm not against the porting itself, but I don't see the point of delaying the Wii U version over half a year just to release it alongside the ports. Seems to me they could make MORE money from the the Wii U version by releasing it as originally scheduled (during a slow month, as a timed exclusive), then make the same amount of money on the ports regardless.

As for Bayonetta, I believe Nintendo is publishing that themselves, so it's not going anywhere.
Exactly. It really doesn't make any sense.

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post #117 of 1442 Old 02-07-2013, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
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Yeah, I'm not against the porting itself, but I don't see the point of delaying the Wii U version over half a year just to release it alongside the ports. Seems to me they could make MORE money from the the Wii U version by releasing it as originally scheduled (during a slow month, as a timed exclusive), then make the same amount of money on the ports regardless.

.

Exactly. Rayman was the first major release since before Christmas and until Monster Hunter. Come September, it's not going to be nearly as much a priority as it would have been this month. Doesn't Windwaker HD come out September?

Too many systems and games....not enough time or money!

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post #118 of 1442 Old 02-07-2013, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Yep, this game just went from a $60 day one buy to a I'll get it for $20 a year from now title.

Ubisoft just doomed the game to sell poorly on every system instead of selling a million units to Wii U owners looking for games.

I got Origins for $10 used a couple weeks ago. Set them sights lower.

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post #119 of 1442 Old 02-07-2013, 12:45 PM
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I got Origins for $10 used a couple weeks ago. Set them sights lower.

Rayman Legends was guaranteed to be a great selling title had it launched now. There's nothing else coming out on Wii U right now to draw gamers' attention and dollars away from it. Wii U owners have been clamoring for a new game to play and this was pretty much it. It's going to be 'just another title' released in September now and everyone's attentions will be fixated on Durango and Orbis. They've gained nothing by doing this and stand to lose out on potential Wii U sales by delaying. There's no reason they couldn't have released this as a timed exclusive. I'm on another forum and people are saying they'll buy it used, wait till it's cheap or deliberately bypass it altogether. Not a smart move.....

Too many systems and games....not enough time or money!

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post #120 of 1442 Old 02-07-2013, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
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I got Origins for $10 used a couple weeks ago. Set them sights lower.

I paid $30 for Origins and thought it was a steal... the game is awesome. But I regularly see it for <$15 new now, which is depressing.

[Back on topic:]
As much as I disagree with delaying the U version, I wouldn't expect them to delay a finished product unless there was a compelling business reason- did Ninty try to beat them up on the licensing deal, or someone else offer them a boatload of money for future games starting with a multi-plat release of Rayman?

I'll never understand the games industry.




As to Bayonetta, I don't think Ninty wants to let it go to PS360, but if it's a successful game that might generate some big returns if ported elsewhere... It could become a toe in the water for Nintendo on other platforms. MS did it with Mass Effect - and yeah, MS is definitely not Nintendo- but with all the cries for Mario iOS and the like, there's potential for BIG changes if N keeps losing money (See: Iwata may step down if business stays flat). Never say never, basically. Shareholders are fickle a***oles.
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