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post #1 of 75 Old 01-11-2007, 10:23 AM - Thread Starter
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I can understand the "nice to have" feature of the VC to play older console games but I cannot understand the conflicting gameplay that publishers bring with NEW platform games on the Wii. Whats the point?

I thought Metal Slug Anthology was a great title until I saw the screenshot showing its a platform game. Besides the point that the graphics suck and shows that this should be a SNES or DS title, why is this a new game for Wii?

As far as I'm concerned Metal Slug Anthology should be a 3rd person game like Zelda TP or first person to be worthy for Wii. It is natural for all Wii games to be first person or 3rd person.

Are there a lot of platform games coming to Wii? That will kill this console. I dont care how many games Nintendo has lined up for the Wii but if they are all platform games, whos going to care for it? With the classic controller being an option, this seems to mean that platform games shouldnt be the majority of games for the Wii. I hope not.
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post #2 of 75 Old 01-11-2007, 11:05 AM
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firstly... how is a single platform game leaning toward the majority?

second, you do relaize that metal slug anthology is a compilation of previous metal slug titles, not a new title right? so commenting on graphics is a little silly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_Slug_Anthology

Finally, why force your subjective view that side-scrolling platformers are bad on the general populus when there is a very real chance that others feel quite differently?

I personally am really looking forward to Alien Hominid in HD for XBLA myself.

Research before complaining is always a good way to go about things
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post #3 of 75 Old 01-11-2007, 12:40 PM
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The Metal Slug series has some of the most fun games ever made. It's also produced one of the least fun games - Metal Slug 3D.

There's room in the world for both 2D side-strollers and 3D platformers. But there is no place for godawful 3D versions of games that belong in 2D.
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post #4 of 75 Old 01-11-2007, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
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I did my research and if you did read my post it is a hope that the game inductry doesnt degenerate the Wii to platform games.

And if you enjoy these, so be it..on the SNES.

Supercastlevania IV
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post #5 of 75 Old 01-11-2007, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyHTPC View Post

I did my research and if you did read my post it is a hope that the game inductry doesnt degenerate the Wii to platform games.

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I can understand the "nice to have" feature of the VC to play older console games but I cannot understand the conflicting gameplay that publishers bring with NEW platform games on the Wii. Whats the point?

What publisher has brought a new platform game? as I said, Metal slug is a compilation disk of ported arcade games... nothing new here. It's basically VC titles on a disk, but not Nintendo

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I thought Metal Slug Anthology was a great title until I saw the screenshot showing its a platform game. Besides the point that the graphics suck and shows that this should be a SNES or DS title, why is this a new game for Wii?

Again, not a new game, and how could you think it was great until you saw it, Metal Slug has ALWAYS been a platform game, for 10 years now (the original came out in 1996), and you're complaining about graphics on an old port... again, you didn't do your research, because you didn't know anything about the game

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As far as I'm concerned Metal Slug Anthology should be a 3rd person game like Zelda TP or first person to be worthy for Wii. It is natural for all Wii games to be first person or 3rd person.

Why? because you like 1st and 3rd person alone other people shouldn't like any other view? oh and these ARE 3rd person, learn your Grammatical person's. You're talking about over the shoulder third person.

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Are there a lot of platform games coming to Wii? That will kill this console. I dont care how many games Nintendo has lined up for the Wii but if they are all platform games, whos going to care for it? With the classic controller being an option, this seems to mean that platform games shouldnt be the majority of games for the Wii. I hope not.

Again, you're hoping a specific genre of game doesn't come out for a system because you don't like it... what kind of logic is that? And if it isn't obvious that you didn't even bother to look up anything on Metal Slug, considering you didn't know it was old, didn't know this was a compilation, and didn't know it was a side-scrolling platform shooter, then I don't know what could point it out any better.
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post #6 of 75 Old 01-11-2007, 01:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by aC39 View Post

Again, you're hoping a specific genre of game doesn't come out for a system because you don't like it.

Ok genius what did you get the Wii for?
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post #7 of 75 Old 01-11-2007, 01:12 PM
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games... all types of games.

I'm not saying I don't prefer certain types of games, but I sure as hell have never bought ANY system for a single type of game.

I like RTS', FPS', TPS', RPG's, Sports, Puzzles, Fighters, Platformers... tell me if I'm leaving anything out

EDIT: Oh yeah... shooters, like duck-hunt style light-gun shooters
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post #8 of 75 Old 01-11-2007, 01:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by aC39 View Post

games... all types of games.

I'm not saying I don't prefer certain types of games, but I sure as hell have never bought ANY system for a single type of game.

I like RTS', FPS', TPS', RPG's, Sports, Puzzles, Fighters, Platformers... tell me if I'm leaving anything out

Do you agree the Wii's remote, nunchucks are made more for the player to be immersed in a game? ie, 1st person, or 3rd person view?
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post #9 of 75 Old 01-11-2007, 01:29 PM
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ok... I said it before, and I'll say it again, Metal Slug is 3rd person damnit!

and just because the controller has motion sensing, doesnt automatically dictate a specific play style. Just look at the ball game in the fish shop in zelda, that's a great use for the controller, or for a golf game, or what I'm looking forward to, WarioWare microgames.

You're putting some false image in your head that the wii remote should be used exlusively or a specific gametype rather than a wide range of everything from the past, as well as new gameplay styles.
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post #10 of 75 Old 01-11-2007, 01:37 PM - Thread Starter
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I definitely know that the remote can be used for regular button mashing game play. It is Nintendo's desire to make the Wii into a different gameplay but people like you keep pulling the same old crap over to the new system.

Ok how do I include that I dont like seeing crap titles like MS Anthology on the Wii? Want to call it scrollers? ok add scrollers.

Since youre so into Wikipedia for the Grammatical person definition they have, heres one that includes the g*ddamn scrollers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platform_game

The description actually includes your favorite "Metal Slug" is not a third person game.

I hope you know what you found as "grammitical person" on wikipedia isn't the same when they refer to video games.
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post #11 of 75 Old 01-11-2007, 02:10 PM
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actually it is, because there is no set gaming definition for person as their is in the literary sense.

Typically game camera can be called a number of things, but a FPS is always a FPS, a TPS typically refers to an over the shoulder shooter, however to say that metal slug is not in the third person is rather narrow minded, considering the game terminology was taken from the literary sense.

If you want over the should third person, then say that, but don't tell me that a side scroller isn't third person.

Even "god" view, typically used in sim-city and such COULD be stretched to third, but I wouldn't go there because you're typically not basing those game around a single protagonist.

Hell, Epic Game's Cliffy B referred to the camera in GoW as 2nd person, do you even want to go into the specifics of how impossible that is? well not impossible, I guess you theoretically could play the game through the eyes of your partner, but control would be a little odd don't you think?

Oh and from your own linked article...

Quote:


Today platformers remain a vital niche genre, but have never recaptured the kind of popularity that they held in past years. In 1998, Platform games had a 15% share of the market (and even higher during their heyday), but only four years later that figure had dropped to 2%.[19] Even the much acclaimed Psychonauts experienced modest sales of a little more than 85,000 units across all platforms,[20] and franchises like the once mighty Tomb Raider began to sag. Other forms of third person action games have cut into the sales of platformers as RPGs and First Person Shooters have grown in selling power. One might also say that this decline is an inevitable result of a larger and more diverse market than in years past, as no one genre has managed to achieve the same kind of dominance that platform games did in the 8 and 16-bit console

Note the second to last sentence... "other third person action games have..." i.e. in addition to the third person platformer.

A platformer is a genre title, not a camera definition. You could have a first person platformer too, or like tomb raider or many other similar games, a variation on the location of the camera, but still 3rd person.

And lastly, you again are basing your view of what titles should be on the Wii on your own bias. Just because you don't like a game, doesn't mean other don't. Very many people absolutely love(d) Metal Slug and all the side scrolling games like it. Your opinion is not more important than anyone elses.

Just because the system is capable of revolutionary control, doesn't mean it should ONLY have that type of control. This isn't an either/or debate. It's not metal slug or some new amazing sword fighting sim. it can be both at no cost to the other title.
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post #12 of 75 Old 01-11-2007, 02:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Your opinion is irrelevant to me so get off my thread. You attacked me on many fronts including the use of "3rd person" and here you use it yourself. Go on to another thread and waste your words.
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post #13 of 75 Old 01-11-2007, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyHTPC View Post

but people like you keep pulling the same old crap over to the new system.

The Metal Slug games aren't crap.

2D Games in general aren't crap

The notion that the Wii is somehow harmed by having non-Wii-specific games is crap.
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post #14 of 75 Old 01-11-2007, 04:31 PM
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free forum, you can not force me out of your thread, but feel free to ignore me, I'm sure you'd rather live in a bubble than realize that people will disagree with your opinions.

I have not flamed you, I simply told you why your opinion was completely off-base. Whenever you tried to bring up a point, I gave my opinion of that point.

Because I picked your argument apart piece by piece and happenned to disagree with every single word of it, you suddenly don't like me. I never attacked you, I attacked your opinion.

No ad hom or anything, so please if you can point out where I broke forum rules or etiquette, go right ahead.

Also to say I concentrated on 3rd person is foolish, I touched on a number of points, but when you tried to refute my point on 3rd person, I simply told you why I felt (again) that you were incorrect.

Conveniently you gave me an article that only further proved my point in your own example, so I used that for ease to drive the point home.

-aC

EDIT: after re-reading your post, I find it even more laughable. I "attacked" you for using 3rd person? No, I simply pointed out that your view of 3rd person is not the same as the consensus. That you were using it incorrectly to specify a specific type of game, when 3rd person in fact covers a wide array of game camera techniques and styles.

I broadenned on your use of 3rd, never "attacked" it. But you seem to not understand that.
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post #15 of 75 Old 01-11-2007, 05:18 PM
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jeez, what a debacle this thread has turned out to be. Bottom line, if you don't like a certain type of game don't buy it. If enough people agree with you, then the game won't be profitable and they won't make more like it. Trust in capitalism.

Metal Slug is a great series, btw.
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post #16 of 75 Old 01-11-2007, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyHTPC View Post

I did my research and if you did read my post it is a hope that the game inductry doesnt degenerate the Wii to platform games.

And if you enjoy these, so be it..on the SNES.

Supercastlevania IV

That's the sort of mindset that buried 2D console gaming in the PS1 era - if its not 3D, it sucks and its old. The Wii's meant for everybody, and that means there's room for innovation in 2D platformers as well, even though Metal Slug doesn't count since it is a compilation of existing games. You're making an argument for technology-first games that's more in tune with X360 and PS3 than the casual-centric Wii.
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post #17 of 75 Old 01-11-2007, 09:22 PM
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New the birth of new gaming genres doesn't deprecate old genres. Just because the Wii has motion sensing/pointer functionality and 3D rendering abilities doesn't mean all games released on the system should use them. Different games benefit from completely different styles. For example, it's my opinion that the Super Mario franchise was best in 2D form, and that the move to 3D detracted from the gameplay. On the other hand, Zelda's move to 3D was a great move and the franchise benefits significantly from the 3D style over the 2D style. Neither game, in my opinion, benefit much from motion sensing capabilities though; although, the pointer capabilities is a reasonable plus to Zelda. 2D and 3D fighters like Street Fighter, Soul Calibur, Super Smash Bros, etc are another of example of games that wouldn't benefit much from motion sensing. Again, just my opinion.

The Wii needs to support all gaming genres if Nintendo expects people to purchase the Wii and only the Wii. If the Wii only focuses on motion/pointer games, then Nintendo essentially ensures that every Wii owner who enjoys other genres will eventually purchase a 360 or PS3. That's a terrible business plan. The smarter plan is for the Wii to support all genres that the other guys do plus the motion/pointer genres that they cannot do.

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Originally Posted by SpeedyHTPC View Post

And if you enjoy these, so be it..on the SNES.

Seriously, you're joking, right? There hasn't been a new game released for the SNES in over a decade. It's a fact of life that all consumers/gamers accept that once new consoles are released, the old consoles are no longer developed for. I've played/beaten nearly every game released on the SNES. I want more games. So, I purchase a new console every 3-5 years. Even if the games that were coming out today were identical to the games on the SNES, I'd still have to purchase new systems as those systems would be where the new games were. Metal Slug Anthology wasn't released for the SNES, it was released for the Wii. If I want to play it, I have to play it on the Wii. Understand?

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Originally Posted by SpeedyHTPC View Post

....hope that the game inductry doesnt degenerate the Wii to platform games.

To you, platform games and nothing else would be degenerate. To me, that would be glorious. In over 10 years I've yet to see a single new game made that is better than Super Mario World, Zelda: Link to the Past, Zelda: Ocarina of Time, Final Fantasy 6, or Chrono Trigger. With the exception of Ocarina of Time (N64), the rest of those are SNES games. The Wii/PS3/360 generation is the 3rd generation since the SNES and I'm still waiting to see a game better than those 4 SNES games. Again, this is my opinion and it's clearly different than yours. Everyone has different gaming tastes and there is no right or wrong view or taste in this field. Nintendo, as an intelligent company, realizes this and aims to satisify all of us.
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post #18 of 75 Old 01-11-2007, 09:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dklayn View Post

The Wii needs to support all gaming genres if Nintendo expects people to purchase the Wii and only the Wii. If the Wii only focuses on motion/pointer games, then Nintendo essentially ensures that every Wii owner who enjoys other genres will eventually purchase a 360 or PS3. That's a terrible business plan. The smarter plan is for the Wii to support all genres that the other guys do plus the motion/pointer genres that they cannot do.

While thats almost a good point, I looked at the list of upcoming games. Doesnt look like Nintendo is intending the Wii to be much of a 2D or 2.5D or 3D that should be a 2D game system. While there are some games that are of the old genre, Im glad its not the majority.

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Seriously, you're joking, right? There hasn't been a new game released for the SNES in over a decade. It's a fact of life that all consumers/gamers accept that once new consoles are released, the old consoles are no longer developed for. I've played/beaten nearly every game released on the SNES. I want more games. So, I purchase a new console every 3-5 years. Even if the games that were coming out today were identical to the games on the SNES, I'd still have to purchase new systems as those systems would be where the new games were. Metal Slug Anthology wasn't released for the SNES, it was released for the Wii. If I want to play it, I have to play it on the Wii. Understand?

I am saying games that do not need the Wii should be released on SNES, GC. I did say Gamecube. Do you think the GC cannot run MetalSlug? Do you really think people will buy the Wii for games like Metal Slug Anthology and Super CastleVania IV?

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To you, platform games and nothing else would be degenerate. To me, that would be glorious. In over 10 years I've yet to see a single new game made that is better than Super Mario World, Zelda: Link to the Past, Zelda: Ocarina of Time, Final Fantasy 6, or Chrono Trigger. With the exception of Ocarina of Time (N64), the rest of those are SNES games. The Wii/PS3/360 generation is the 4th generation since the SNES and I'm still waiting to see a game better than those 3 SNES games. Again, this is my opinion and it's clearly different than yours. Everyone has different gaming tastes and there is no right or wrong view or taste in this field. Nintendo, as an intelligent company, realizes this and aims to satisify all of us.

These 2D for Wii games are bandaid games for Nintendo to have something to announce before the real titles for the Wii are available. They are buying time because these games are quicker to market.

Im a PC gamer but not hardcore. I couldnt care less about what is going on in the console scene but I did buy the Wii for it's different take on game play. That is the difference the Wii makes and what attracts most buyers. Dont dumb it down with those 2D games. I'm not saying dont release it at all. I'm sure you own another console that is fully capable of it. How many times do I read that the DS can do the same thing the Wii can do? That is complete BS.

I believe you that the newer games dont beat the old games. Trust me I am old. You and the ones so far commenting dont seem to get what I said. So I wont say anymore.
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post #19 of 75 Old 01-11-2007, 09:50 PM - Thread Starter
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You're making an argument for technology-first games that's more in tune with X360 and PS3 than the casual-centric Wii.

I sincerely hope that you arent speaking something inline with Nintendo's thinking. I didnt even waste my time or money on the Xbox or Xbox360 or PS3 because I'm already feeling the rehash burn. I only got the Wii because of different game play.

If these 2D platform games were released on SNES or GC, why would you care if theres a native version for the Wii? What would be the difference?
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post #20 of 75 Old 01-12-2007, 03:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyHTPC View Post

I sincerely hope that you arent speaking something inline with Nintendo's thinking. I didnt even waste my time or money on the Xbox or Xbox360 or PS3 because I'm already feeling the rehash burn. I only got the Wii because of different game play.

If these 2D platform games were released on SNES or GC, why would you care if theres a native version for the Wii? What would be the difference?

The difference is that the SNES and Gamecube have pretty much been discontinued. Any new gamers that want the old platform games will have to rebuy them in the newer Wii version. the SNES hasn't had a new game come out in years because there is no real market for it. same with the N64. The cube is a bit different because it's just being replaced. but that's what's happening. It is being replaced, bastardized, orphaned left with no development. Thus the need for native Wii games for these types of games. If you don't like them, don't buy them. Don't bash people who do want platform games on the Wii. I hope they make some new inventive platform games for the wii instead of just repackaging the old.
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post #21 of 75 Old 01-12-2007, 05:42 AM
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If these 2D platform games were released on SNES or GC, why would you care if theres a native version for the Wii? What would be the difference?

The SNES couldn't handle an arcade perfect Metal Slug. Just compare any Neo Geo port on the SNES to its original version.

What a ridiculous thread, I almost fell bad for adding to it.
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post #22 of 75 Old 01-12-2007, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by SpeedyHTPC View Post

I didnt even waste my time or money on the Xbox or Xbox360 or PS3 because I'm already feeling the rehash burn. I only got the Wii because of different game play.

So, I'm trying to parse your concern. Is your concern that games like Metal Slug are not Wii-specific and thus your fear is that the Wii's library will revert to the same style of games that you've played many times before and will no longer innovate, effectively wasting the Wii's features? Because if that's the case, Metal Slug Anthology is probably not the game to use as the poster-child of that discussion.

Obviously, this isn't a new title, but it is a title that gathers the entire franchise under one title, which would make it worth it to fans of that series for that reason alone. But more relevant to your argument is the fact that it offers 5 different control schemes unique to the Wii. Read that again. FIVE DIFFERENT CONTROL SCHEMES. You can't do that elsewhere. See for yourself with this video right here. Whether or not any of these control schemes are worth the effort is another issue altogether. The point is that even for a game that is essentially a series of arcade ports, the developer has tried to innovate the control scheme in a way that could only be done on the Wii.

And with games like Cooking Mama and Dragonquest Swords coming, to name just two, the Wii is in no danger of suddenly stopping it's innovative ways. And with games like the Godfather:Blackhand, you're going to see game released that may feature good takes on the control system (unless it's a weak port and poorly tacked on....which is a developer issue).

All that said, I don't see a problem with having a wide variety of games for the Wii. I'd rather it follows the DS's pattern. I'm currently playing Castlevania:Portrait of Ruin and loving it...even though it doesn't really use any of the DS's unique features. It's just a damned fine game. And that's the point...not every Wii game should shoehorn a poorly tested design scheme in if it's not necessary, IMHO.
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post #23 of 75 Old 01-12-2007, 09:30 AM
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It looks like the "Classic controller sucks for NES games" thread had a short lived run as worst thread ever.

Behold the new champ.
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post #24 of 75 Old 01-12-2007, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
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You will see the Wii as the champ of most short lived console ever if these non-Wii specific games keep rolling in as a bandaid.

The Gamecube didnt live long did it? watch Nintendo kill another console if this keeps up.
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post #25 of 75 Old 01-12-2007, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyHTPC View Post

You will see the Wii as the champ of most short lived console ever if these non-Wii specific games keep rolling in as a bandaid.

The Gamecube didnt live long did it? watch Nintendo kill another console if this keeps up.

Would you rather have MORE games to play or LESS games to play? Obviously we all want more of the best type of games, but to ignore a certain type of game in principle is not so smart.

How can these guys complain about MORE options?
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post #26 of 75 Old 01-12-2007, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by SpeedyHTPC View Post

So I wont say anymore.

Considering that you've said you are someone who doesn't know (or really care) anything about console gaming, considering that you've gotten most of your basic facts wrong, considering that your basic point (more games/choices = bad) is totally absurd, maybe you should keep your word.

What's the point of starting a thread just to bicth about a game you won't even be buying, and then pick fights with everybody.

I suggest you go buy Metal Slug and play it. It'll be a heck of a lot more fun than trolling this group.
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post #27 of 75 Old 01-12-2007, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by SpeedyHTPC View Post

You will see the Wii as the champ of most short lived console ever if these non-Wii specific games keep rolling in as a bandaid.

The Gamecube didnt live long did it? watch Nintendo kill another console if this keeps up.

Umm... the Nintendo Gamecube had a 5 year life-span, which is pretty much the norm for consoles. In fact if memory serves, the only non defunt manufacturer to have shorter lifespans has been MS, with the 4 year life-cycle of the original XBOX, and the forecasted 4 years of 360 as well.

While I agree that the GC sold the least out of all other nintendo home units, it defaintely was not a shorter life span.

Short history:
Nintendo release dates: (all dates are US, Japanese dates will vary)
NES - October 18, 1985
SNES - August 13, 1991
N64 - September 29, 1996
GC - November 18, 2001
Wii - November 19, 2006

You'll notice that all consoles except the NES to SNES are a 5 year life-span for Nintendo.
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post #28 of 75 Old 01-14-2007, 03:18 PM
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There's room in the world for both 2D side-strollers and 3D platformers. But there is no place for godawful 3D versions of games that belong in 2D.

That statement brings the latest Sonic the Hedgehog games to mind...
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post #29 of 75 Old 03-11-2007, 09:47 AM - Thread Starter
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http://www.gamespot.com/news/6167134...;picks;title;5

"Nintendo manager of software development says Wind Waker nearly killed the franchise; devs tried first-person combat for Twilight Princess."

Like I said..keep it up ..and Wii gets killed. Whether you agree or not, whether you like it or not, first person games are on the top.
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post #30 of 75 Old 03-11-2007, 10:04 AM
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THat's just one managers word. Nintendo will never let their Zelda franchise die. Mario, Pokemon, and Zelda is here to stay.

Imo, they should kill off Metriod Prime or turn it into a 3rd person view action game instead of a fps. Warioware platform games are fairly subpar. Yoshi Island2 was horrible, I believe Nintendo outsourced that game to another developer.

I think the problem with Nintendo is, they have too many franchises and not enough quality developers to support all their first party titles.

If Nintendo doesn't do too well after the first year or two with the Wii, I wonder if they'll consider going third party. Microsoft will slowly gain marketshare every generation and Sony is here to stay.

SDF
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