5870 Crossfire easily beating GTX295 SLI - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 48 Old 09-15-2009, 05:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Unoptimized drivers. Imagine after a little bit of tweaking and OC. 399$ card totally raping a 1000$ combo. LOL!

The upcoming 5870X2 will simply destroy GTX295 SLI. Nvidia are deep in it this time.

I'm only interested and gaming at 2560X1600. And the numbers here are clear.

Poor guy that paid over 1000$ for a GTX295 SLI set-up!

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post #2 of 48 Old 09-15-2009, 08:08 AM
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Good numbers if the benchmarks were conducted and reported properly. Given the Nvidia loyalist I am, I can't wait to see what they come up with. The bar looks to have been set pretty high.
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post #3 of 48 Old 09-15-2009, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEVESQUE View Post

Unoptimized drivers. Imagine after a little bit of tweaking and OC. 399$ card totally raping a 1000$ combo. LOL!

The upcoming 5870X2 will simply destroy GTX295 SLI. Nvidia are deep in it this time.

I'm only interested and gaming at 2560X1600. And the numbers here are clear.

Poor guy that paid over 1000$ for a GTX295 SLI set-up!




Just as bad for the guys that got 4870x2 and got beat by 295 and SLI 280/285's.

This a whole new gen of ATI cards that you are comparing to the older gen Nvidia cards. It would be expected else it would have been embarrassing if it didn't.

So whats your pt ATI fan boy....

But seriously the 295's were never the best option when run in Quad. The Tri SLI 285's (SLI 280/285 > 295) would norm beat them. Nvidia made the big mistake when they limited the 295's memory.

It would be an intresting fight when and if the GT300 comes out and see what Nvidia can come up with as a counter. If nothing else but forcing Nvidia to price match their new GT300 cards then its a win for Nvidia fans too.

Hey if ATI whips Nvidia in the new gen thats OK too, I will switch to using ATI cards just like when Nvidia killed ATI in the past and I switched from using ATI to Nvidia.

ADD: BTW your pricing is wrong...$399 for ONE 5870 and they used a pair (Duel CrossfireX mode) so the cost is $800 vs $1000.

Also it would have been nice if you posted the source for the chart.

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post #4 of 48 Old 09-15-2009, 10:00 AM
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OK I found one source of the chart. Here is the whole article with listings for a whole bunch of comparo's.

http://vr-zone.com/articles/-rumour-....html?doc=7647

FWIW Quoting from article "Of course, these are unofficial, and should be taken with a grain of salt."

Here is one chart that compares the 5870 vs 295




ADD: Unless you are planning to game at 25x16 (Like me and some others) and/or planning on Dx11, then it is does not really matter since even at 19x12, the frames are more then playable for any existing game with one 5870 or 295. Yes the 5870 projected price is cheaper but then the 295 has been out almost seems like a long time (year ?) already. Bird in the hand...

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post #5 of 48 Old 09-15-2009, 11:06 AM
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That's exactly why I buy only EVGA or BFG nvidia cards now- as I've said many times, with their 90+days exchange programs, that's a pretty big deal, especially on the high end card. I went from a GTX 280 to a 295 within that time period, and it only cost me $100 more.

So as Tinker says- I will also wait for the newer Nvidia high-end cards with more memory to arrive, and I would bet those would do at least as well, if not better as ATI's cards in some situations.

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post #6 of 48 Old 09-15-2009, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveFi View Post

That's exactly why I buy only EVGA or BFG nvidia cards now- as I've said many times, with their 90+days exchange programs, that's a pretty big deal, especially on the high end card. I went from a GTX 280 to a 295 within that time period, and it only cost me $100 more.

So as Tinker says- I will also wait for the newer Nvidia high-end cards with more memory to arrive, and I would bet those would do at least as well, if not better as ATI's cards in some situations.

Don't get me wrong. I will go ATI for some cases, esp for multi monitor support (Eyefinity) if Nvidia can not deliver the same. It really does not matter to me in the end as to RED or GREEN cards I use, I just want to get the best performance regardless of price has always been my main goal. I was die hard ATI supporter from their early beginnings since I was evaluating their cards, I use to run a testing group in the department I use to work for. I supported ATI then since they were a Canadian company and we wanted to buy Canadian...this was back in 1985 and it was a 2 million PC contract over two years. So really I may appear to be a Nvidia fan boy now , but it has not always been the case. I was ATI right up to the 800 series.

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post #7 of 48 Old 09-15-2009, 04:04 PM
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Right now I really have no choice as I have an nvidia based motherboard (for SLI). I do like having the PhysX and CUDA based features as well.

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post #8 of 48 Old 09-15-2009, 04:22 PM
 
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I don't see why this is so funny\\unexpected.. ATi has been doing this all generation long with the 48xx series. Hell even the 4870x2 for $300 +/- can keep up with the 295 in most games\
ez and even outperform it in others (depending on the game and\\or settings of course).

nVidia is growing tired of having their asses handed to them I'm sure, and as Tinker said I can't wait to see what they respond with. Intense competition and results is always good for me and my budget!

EDIT: After looking\
eading closer I'm a bit skeptical of these benchmarks, especially with only one off-the-wall source. While I stand by my statements, I'll wait to get *truly* excited when official benchmarks are released from reputable sites.
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post #9 of 48 Old 09-15-2009, 04:40 PM
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Its not looking too promising for Nvidia's GT300 coming soon unless Nvidia can pull a rabbit out of their hat of tricks.

http://www.semiaccurate.com/2009/09/...eilds-under-2/

Just rem the source, Charlie has no love for Nvidia. But there is always a speck of truth in rumors tho.

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post #10 of 48 Old 09-15-2009, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinker View Post

Its not looking too promising for Nvidia's GT300 coming soon unless Nvidia can pull a rabbit out of their hat of tricks.

http://www.semiaccurate.com/2009/09/...eilds-under-2/

Just rem the source, Charlie has no love for Nvidia. But there is always a speck of truth in rumors tho.

Oh I'd say they'd have to at least meet ATI's performance levels or not even bother coming to market with their new part. I'd highly doubt that.

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post #11 of 48 Old 09-15-2009, 05:55 PM
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I don't have concerns about the GT300 not performing. If you can believe the Nvidia rhetoric, the GT300 is suppose to be better then twice the performance of the 285. The question that Charlie raise is the dismal yield Nvidia is currently having with their die per wafer. 2% is not any where near a sustainable number even for internal testing.

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post #12 of 48 Old 09-15-2009, 09:31 PM
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I like Nvidia but I was too once an ATI fanboy. Gimme the best, thats all I ask, who ever makes it.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #13 of 48 Old 09-15-2009, 09:40 PM
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How large is the GT300 die? Did they not learn their lesson with GT200?

Though Nvidia *now* has the highest performing GPU, it costs massively more to make than a 4890 GPU. Add to that the extremely complex PCB of the GT200 boards and I can't see how they make money on them at all.

I'm starting to wonder if ATI got their sideport (or whatever it is called) to work on their X2 cards yet. That may explain the good performance of their X2 card.
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post #14 of 48 Old 09-15-2009, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by steven975 View Post

How large is the GT300 die? Did they not learn their lesson with GT200?

Though Nvidia *now* has the highest performing GPU, it costs massively more to make than a 4890 GPU. Add to that the extremely complex PCB of the GT200 boards and I can't see how they make money on them at all.

I'm starting to wonder if ATI got their sideport (or whatever it is called) to work on their X2 cards yet. That may explain the good performance of their X2 card.

Its not the size but the failure rate from each wafer. Their good yield are less the 2% if you believe the article I linked to. There are a max possible of 104 (?) die per wafer with the GT300.

BTW: there was no test done with the 5870x2 since its prob still in the lab. The benches were done with two 5870 in xfire.

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post #15 of 48 Old 09-16-2009, 09:17 AM
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Officla AMD slides of single 5870:















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post #16 of 48 Old 09-21-2009, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinker View Post

Its not the size but the failure rate from each wafer. Their good yield are less the 2% if you believe the article I linked to. There are a max possible of 104 (?) die per wafer with the GT300.

BTW: there was no test done with the 5870x2 since its prob still in the lab. The benches were done with two 5870 in xfire.

That's smaller than the 65nm GT200 which could do 94 per wafer.

Die size and yield are also inversely proportional, but that 2% yield would imply something is killing yields other than die size.

The 5870x2 could perform better. AMD had a GPU-GPU interface on the 4870x2, but had to keep it disabled as it wasn't working yet. By GPU-GPU interface I do not mean PCI-E or the CF bridge...it's something else on the PCB.
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post #17 of 48 Old 09-21-2009, 11:11 PM
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GREAT thread here with tons of pictures on the new 5k series:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=234555
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post #18 of 48 Old 09-22-2009, 06:23 AM
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NEWSFLASH!

New technology beats out old technology!
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post #19 of 48 Old 09-22-2009, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by fcorona76 View Post

NEWSFLASH!

New technology beats out old technology!

Yes in most cases it does, but generally not by such a large margin.
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post #20 of 48 Old 09-22-2009, 05:11 PM
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All i know is that finally, finally...Crysis DX10 will run at 60fps at 1080p

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post #21 of 48 Old 09-22-2009, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadRusch View Post

All i know is that finally, finally...Crysis DX10 will run at 60fps at 1080p

And @ $399 too....

But still can not do 25x16 tho. Maybe 4x$399 (2x hemlock ie 5870x2's ) might have a chance if the drivers are decent. Or wait a few months for the 5890 after or when and if Nvidia releases their GT300...

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post #22 of 48 Old 09-22-2009, 10:34 PM
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pretty thorough look at two ATI 5xxx cards

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ATI/Radeon_HD_5870/

another real world review

http://techreport.com/articles.x/17618

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post #23 of 48 Old 09-23-2009, 06:33 AM
 
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post #24 of 48 Old 09-23-2009, 10:11 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lwright84 View Post

Collection of 5870 reviews:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/23/a...approving-nod/

More:
http://www.dailytech.com/9232009+Har...ticle16315.htm
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post #25 of 48 Old 09-23-2009, 01:05 PM
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Is anyone making systems with these pre-installed?

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post #26 of 48 Old 09-23-2009, 05:43 PM
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If anybody is picking up the 5870 or 5850 (?) and thinking about getting Dirt2. Save the Dirt2 money since it been rumored that ATI/AMD threw a million dollars into Dirt2 for Dx11, almost every 5xxx cards comes with a coupon for Dirt2 when the PC ver of game finally get release later this year.

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post #27 of 48 Old 09-23-2009, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadRusch View Post

All i know is that finally, finally...Crysis DX10 will run at 60fps at 1080p

I do wonder how long it will be until I can get a single GPU solution that will run Crysis at a constant 60FPS at 1920x1080 with max settings and 4xAA/16xAF.
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post #28 of 48 Old 09-23-2009, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSmith83 View Post

I do wonder how long it will be until I can get a single GPU solution that will run Crysis at a constant 60FPS at 1920x1080 with max settings and 4xAA/16xAF.

for 2560x1600 prob about 5 years after we get a working holodeck...

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post #29 of 48 Old 09-23-2009, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkcusD View Post

Is anyone making systems with these pre-installed?

Alienware's newly announced systems offer the choice of the 5870 preinstalled in single or Crossfire.
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There all sold out on newegg.com
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