120 Hz Pc gaming - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 22 Old 05-15-2011, 04:29 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
zeroumus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I know this has been asked from time to time, but I figured it needed to be asked again now that many people have 3d tvs


I am currently using the Samsung 2233 for 120 hz Gaming

I am wondering if some 3d tv's will display true 120 hz, as in, accept 120 hz at the input and output and bypass motion the processors.

if the answer is still no, it needs to be asked why wont 120 hz go mainstream. its such a large quality differance. 60 hz just does not cut it. Even in PC gaming, 120 hz setups are still pretty rare



-----

update:

just an update

they now make the monitor i was looking for, it now sits on my desk. I purchased it right away. While this display wont please every one, for 120 hz fans, this is the only way to go. Far better quality than my sansung 2233rz

Samsung SyncMaster S27A950D 27in Widescreen 3D LED LCD w/ 3D Glasses


http://www.memoryexpress.com/Product...33610(ME).aspx
zeroumus is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 22 Old 05-23-2011, 10:17 PM
Senior Member
 
PubFiction's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lansing, MI
Posts: 303
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroumus View Post

I know this has been asked from time to time, but I figured it needed to be asked again now that many people have 3d tvs


I am currently using the Samsung 2233 for 120 hz Gaming

I am wondering if some 3d tv's will display true 120 hz, as in, accept 120 hz at the input and output and bypass motion the processors.

if the answer is still no, it needs to be asked why wont 120 hz go mainstream. its such a large quality differance. 60 hz just does not cut it. Even in PC gaming, 120 hz setups are still pretty rare

I think some can but many are not a full 120hz they do 1080i instead of 1080p.
One of the reasons it will not go mainstream is because few people in the real world use HTPCs they mostly have all these other devices daisy chained to their TV, DVD player, blu ray, cable box, xbox 360. And for all those devices most people do not have any that will output 120hz anyway. So they have no point to rush out and get a TV. Then they also lack the media and almost none of these people think of 120hz for the smoothness they look at it only for 3d. Things just take alot of time to trickle down to the average consumer. Those of us who were used to running 100 hz on a CRT have spent a very very agonizing 10 years waiting for the consumer to wake up. We are just barely starting to see it.
PubFiction is offline  
post #3 of 22 Old 05-23-2011, 10:40 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
zeroumus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
at least i am not the only one who recognizes this as a 10 years+ wait for LCD's to "catch up"


I have been waiting for about 3-4 years seeing these "fake" 120hz displays in agonizing pain. i thought 3D would be my solution to this, but again, PAIN!



at least a got a 120 monitor, but 22" is so small, i need bigger!
zeroumus is offline  
post #4 of 22 Old 05-23-2011, 11:05 PM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 173
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
It can't do true 120hz, just compare it to a CRT , hold displays like that LCD monitor suck for 120hz.
gain3 is offline  
post #5 of 22 Old 05-24-2011, 01:16 AM
Senior Member
 
lurkor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 18
I'm not sure I understand the query. Are you looking for a fast HDTV monitor, or a 120hz 3Dtv or projector? If you don't mind trading resolution for real estate, a 160" 3D display from the Optoma 720 is quite glorious.
lurkor is offline  
post #6 of 22 Old 05-24-2011, 06:23 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
zeroumus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


It can't do true 120hz, just compare it to a CRT , hold displays like that LCD monitor suck for 120hz.


no, this monitor i use really does 120 hz , the marketing information does not make this clear, but it is a true 120 hz unit.
http://www.samsung.com/ca/consumer/o...ype=prd_detail



My query is this, I want a bigger display for use as a computer monitor, they only make 22 and 24 " 120 hz monitors. Could there be a TV that does 120 hz in the 40" size range for use as a true 120 mhz monitor
zeroumus is offline  
post #7 of 22 Old 05-24-2011, 06:51 AM
Senior Member
 
lurkor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 18
To my knowledge there is no HDTV of that size with a DVI-D interface, but these things change every day.
lurkor is offline  
post #8 of 22 Old 05-24-2011, 11:48 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
zeroumus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by lurkor View Post

To my knowledge there is no HDTV of that size with a DVI-D interface, but these things change every day.

i would think that by the nature of the way dvi-d works, if a tv set claimed dvi-d support, it should be what i am looking


you said not at the size i was aksing for, do you know any size that has dvi-d
zeroumus is offline  
post #9 of 22 Old 05-24-2011, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
zeroumus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
opps, i realized, something, I when i say DVI-D , what i really mean is "DVI-D Dual link"
zeroumus is offline  
post #10 of 22 Old 05-24-2011, 12:39 PM
Senior Member
 
lurkor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 18
There are a few who claim their ultra high end projectors support it, but I wouldn't spend that kind of money on one even if I could. I purchased a four year warranty on my projector figuring it would die by the time an affordable 1080p 3D projector came along, if at all.
lurkor is offline  
post #11 of 22 Old 05-24-2011, 02:32 PM
AVS Special Member
 
LexInVA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,944
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroumus View Post

no, this monitor i use really does 120 hz , the marketing information does not make this clear, but it is a true 120 hz unit.
http://www.samsung.com/ca/consumer/o...ype=prd_detail



My query is this, I want a bigger display for use as a computer monitor, they only make 22 and 24 " 120 hz monitors. Could there be a TV that does 120 hz in the 40" size range for use as a true 120 mhz monitor

In the consumer market? No, probably not. There have been some high-end TV's advertised as such when the 120hz thing was a big deal in the marketing hoopla but they were all from boutique electronics sellers and were expensive. There are numerous HDTV-sized 120hz displays in the pro market though they may not be any better than your average HDTV and carry a huge price tag.
LexInVA is offline  
post #12 of 22 Old 05-24-2011, 08:13 PM
Advanced Member
 
tory40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 749
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Theres 2 different 27" 120hz 3D displays. Im using a 46" Sony as a monitor 3ft away from me and i totally love it, even in 1280x720. It provides a large field of view obviously without frames inherint in multi-monitor setups. I see no flicker whatsoever at 60hz/eye and the picture is completely solid. Having two 720p images formed into one by your brain takes some of the aliasing away somehow. Yet there are drawbacks, one being a limitation of 720p @120hz and only 48hz for 1080p. I have to say, in Metro 2033, a dark game I cannot see flicker at 48hz, and hl2 is marginally playable at 48hz, yet the flicker is noticeable since the settings are daylight.

Some Samsung TV's will allow for 60hz sequential at full 1080p and checkerboard mode @120hz, which sends every other pixel from 1080p scan and supposedly looks the best of the "half resolution" modes, like side-by-side and top/bottom.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

tory40 is offline  
post #13 of 22 Old 05-24-2011, 08:43 PM
Advanced Member
 
tory40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 749
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
One other thing about "half resolution" modes, which is 1920x540 worth of pixels... I bought Nvidia 3DTV Play which only supports 720p framepacking 3D (1280x720). However, i just recently tested out side-by-side mode, using the trial of TriDef 3d drivers and its very good. It was like adding 4x to 8x AA and also added a bit finer detail at distances, all without the frame rate hit of full 1080p. In switching back and forth between SBS and full 1080p, the difference wasn't huge, thats for sure, certainly a bit more detail in the full 1080, but SBS was very impressive, especially when it came to aliasing.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

tory40 is offline  
post #14 of 22 Old 05-25-2011, 12:03 AM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 173
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
it can accept 120hz , but can't display it in motion!

Big difference. CRT can display 120hz, LCD with hold type rendering can't.
gain3 is offline  
post #15 of 22 Old 05-25-2011, 06:26 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
zeroumus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by gain3 View Post
it can accept 120hz , but can't display it in motion!

Big difference. CRT can display 120hz, LCD with hold type rendering can't.
I am pretty sure your mistaken. I also have no doupt that my 120hz lcd monitor is smoother than 99.95% of what other people are using. I have also used CRTS at high refresh rates ( 200hz) in my early gaming days. I have also used LCD monitors that claim 70-100 hz support, but have proven them simply drop it down to 60 hz internally. ( very easy to detect )

I have alot of experience with high frame rate gaming and one can rule out that I am imagining i am seeing my frames than i think i am.

however. I always will assume that people on this forum might know some things i dont about this type of stuff. So i would ask for more explanation as to why you think these LCDs are not true 120 hz or not as good as a CRT's 120hz. i know about the response time issues with crts and lcds. so i dont need to know about that.
http://www.memoryexpress.com/Product...reshRate|120Hz-here is a list of the 3d / 120 hz monitors for sale at my local computer store, the samsung rz2233 i am using is no longer sold there
zeroumus is offline  
post #16 of 22 Old 05-27-2011, 04:44 AM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 173
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
http://scien.stanford.edu/pages/labs...Verslegers.htm

8ms hold time per frame. Terrible! I had 2233RZ for 30 min, sold it immidietly, washed out colors with colorfilters, messed up temporal stuff, so bad.
gain3 is offline  
post #17 of 22 Old 05-27-2011, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
zeroumus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by gain3 View Post

http://scien.stanford.edu/pages/labs...Verslegers.htm

8ms hold time per frame. Terrible! I had 2233RZ for 30 min, sold it immidietly, washed out colors with colorfilters, messed up temporal stuff, so bad.


too funny, when i tried to predict what angle you where coming from, thats the referance material i looked up


anyway. i am not denying motion blur effects of lcds. I am simply going to make the statement/opinion that i find 120 hz more important than response time so long as the response time is reasonable, and more important than great color.

at 120 hz, and 8ms responase time, there is nothing specs wise that would lead to the perception of it being a " fake 120 hz ". the worst case scenario of this monitor is that under un-ideal conditions it may have a 8msec latency. ( being black to white )un-ideal


the part that frustrates me to no end is how someone could say that they notice this very minor latency ( blur effect ) over the smoothness difference from 60 fps to 120 fps. To me there is absolutely no contest as to what more important as a computer gamer.

Some people really claim they can see much differance between 60 and 120, and I must assume its possible that some people can really see abig differance between 8ms and 2ms response times.


anyway, i want more true 120 hz monitors, i need help finding them
zeroumus is offline  
post #18 of 22 Old 05-27-2011, 01:17 PM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 173
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I give up. Won't be dragged into 120hz discussions.

PPL just don't get it. ( Not response time but PERSISTENCE!!!!!)
Quote:


the part that frustrates me to no end is how someone could say that they notice this very minor latency ( blur effect )

-you don't even understand much of that stuff, if any........
gain3 is offline  
post #19 of 22 Old 05-27-2011, 08:47 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
zeroumus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by gain3 View Post

I give up. Won't be dragged into 120hz discussions.

PPL just don't get it. ( Not response time but PERSISTENCE!!!!!)


-you don't even understand much of that stuff, if any........

alrighty, now I know you already went off the deep end. Your sticking up for scan line type rendering of CRT's because it reduces natural motion blur effects in the human eye. but ignoring that hold type rendering is in fact more true to real life. If your eye retains and image that is at a certain intensity , than that is just that, natural motion blur. If you prefer to use CRT's and LCD's try and reduce this effect, by all means, we all want that. but this has nothing to do with 60 hz vs 120 hz.

just for fun I dropped my lcd monitor to 60 hz and followed a leading edge across the screen vs 120 hz. beyond the expected result of 120 hz being smoother. i also learned that its very easy to increase natural motion blur at 60 hz. it became almost impossible to create at 120 hz. try it on at 120hz desktop with just a windows window on a black background. follow the edge at different speeds. Or write a small program like it did. if you go 60hz and move at a medium speed it looks choppy, if you got 60hz at at a high speed, you start to see a motion blur effect. If you repeat the same speeds at 120hz, you get almost no motion blur and silky smooth.
zeroumus is offline  
post #20 of 22 Old 05-27-2011, 08:51 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
zeroumus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
just to be clear...

PERSISTENCE! = natural motion blur effects. this is good. if this can be artificially reduced, we are not going to complain however.

Repsonse time effects = machanical motion blur.. BAD. Not natural at all


120 vs 60 hz = can only help
zeroumus is offline  
post #21 of 22 Old 06-26-2011, 08:23 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
zeroumus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
just an update

they now make the monitor i was looking for, it now sits on my desk. I purchased it right away. While this display wont please every one, for 120 hz fans, this is the only way to go. Far better quality than my sansung 2233rz

Samsung SyncMaster S27A950D 27in Widescreen 3D LED LCD w/ 3D Glasses


http://www.memoryexpress.com/Product...33610(ME).aspx
zeroumus is offline  
post #22 of 22 Old 06-26-2011, 08:28 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
zeroumus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
while i dont care about its 3d features that much, i still want to play with it, off to the 3d section i go
zeroumus is offline  
Reply HTPC Gaming

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off