Gabe Newell of Valve: Windows 8 “a catastrophe” - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 56 Old 07-26-2012, 12:33 PM - Thread Starter
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http://www.slashgear.com/gabe-newell-of-valve-windows-8-a-catastrophe-25240280/

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This week at the video game conference known as Casual Connect, Valve head Gabe Newell has taken out the knives and cut up a nice clean slice of Microsoft with heavily negative comments on their next big operating system Windows 8. Newell’s Valve and Steam create a video game environment in which people can download games and keep their accounts with access to those games in the cloud. Newell is currently working to bring big-name games that otherwise would only have been for Windows and OS X machines to Linux in the meantime.

With Newell speaking so negatively about Windows 8 it seems almost inevitable that he’s got a back-up plan set in motion. As it turns out, his move with Steam toward Linux as an operating system of interest is “a hedging strategy” as he describes it. His predictions about Windows 8 certainly don’t place him in the favor of Microsoft on the whole, though their having their own gaming portal too never really added up to a great relationship between the companies in the first place.

“[Windows 8] is a catastrophe for everyone in the PC space. We’ll lose some of the top-tier PC/OEMs, who will exit the market. I think margins will be destroyed for a bunch of people. … It will be good to have alternatives to hedge against that eventuality.” – Newell

This move adds to Newell’s comments that without the open nature of the PC in general, Valve would never have been able to exist. Speaking on the controlled nature of Microsoft’s own Xbox LIVE integration and built-in Windows Store, Newell noted that there’s always a “strong temptation” to close a platform because of the profits that can be gained. Developers, he noted, “look at what they can accomplish when they limit the competitors’ access to the platform, and they say ‘That’s really exciting.’”

Stick around as Newell and his massively popular gaming portal Valve continue to attempt to shape the future of computing on a gaming tip.


by Chris Burns


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post #2 of 56 Old 07-26-2012, 01:03 PM
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There's two sides of this, in my opinion. One, Steam will now be directly competing with the Windows 8 store, so it could be looked at from that angle, that of course that's going to at least a little factor into his opinion.

But secondly, no matter what his thoughts are... why does it even matter? I mean, it's just one man’s opinion. Will it mean that there’s going to be some Linux Steam games? Sure. But it’s going to be just like the Mac Steam game selection, which is to say miniscule compared to Windows.

Just because Gabe doesn’t like it isn’t going to really have any influence on the actual market. What it’ll only do is provide ammunition for all of these angry doubters to say the stuff that nobody actually cares about, like “See I told you it sucks!” To most people, it’s not going to mean anything.

For me personally, Steam is one of the largest reasons why I personally will always be sticking to Windows 8 on an x86 system, as opposed to Windows RT. There’s too much good content to just cut that all off.

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post #3 of 56 Old 07-26-2012, 01:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post

There's two sides of this, in my opinion. One, Steam will now be directly competing with the Windows 8 store, so it could be looked at from that angle, that of course that's going to at least a little factor into his opinion.
But secondly, no matter what his thoughts are... why does it even matter? I mean, it's just one man’s opinion. Will it mean that there’s going to be some Linux Steam games? Sure. But it’s going to be just like the Mac Steam game selection, which is to say miniscule compared to Windows.
Just because Gabe doesn’t like it isn’t going to really have any influence on the actual market. What it’ll only do is provide ammunition for all of these angry doubters to say the stuff that nobody actually cares about, like “See I told you it sucks!” To most people, it’s not going to mean anything.
For me personally, Steam is one of the largest reasons why I personally will always be sticking to Windows 8 on an x86 system, as opposed to Windows RT. There’s too much good content to just cut that all off.

I think his opinion doesn't matter on this.
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post #4 of 56 Old 07-26-2012, 06:22 PM
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I've been using the beat build of Win8 and I have to say, I don't hate it. it was weird at first but once I got everything all setup and had all my shortcuts ready, it was pretty quick and I'll be getting it on launch day. (I'll be dual booting with win 7 of course though)

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post #5 of 56 Old 07-26-2012, 07:07 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm sitting it out in case Vista.


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post #6 of 56 Old 07-26-2012, 08:16 PM
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When is Google gonna come out with Android for PC??? biggrin.gif
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post #7 of 56 Old 07-27-2012, 06:38 AM
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No Google necessary: http://www.android-x86.org/
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post #8 of 56 Old 07-27-2012, 07:21 AM
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Does Valve even develop software anymore.......sounds more like Gabe is whining that his monopoly on digital distribution via Steam is now going to face competition from M$ as well as Origin, and all the rest.

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post #9 of 56 Old 07-27-2012, 08:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by HeadRusch View Post

Does Valve even develop software anymore.......sounds more like Gabe is whining that his monopoly on digital distribution via Steam is now going to face competition from M$ as well as Origin, and all the rest.
This.


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post #10 of 56 Old 07-27-2012, 09:25 PM
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Well maybe this lends credence to the non-gaming apps initiative that they're rumored to start offering. It'd make some sense. I personally think that, while I love Steam and Valve, Gabe just needs to shut up already. I can see where WinRT is going to be an issue with them but really, is that the audience they want to go after? Steam on Winx86 will be just fine. I personally think MS doesn't have the desire to try to kill a competitor like Steam but who knows, MS seems to be dancing to a somewhat Applish tune lately. At least he's hedging his bets with Linux. Good luck with that I guess.


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post #11 of 56 Old 07-28-2012, 09:18 AM
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Valve is not the only one bothered by Win 8's effect on future PC gaming:
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A key executive at Blizzard Entertainment has personally endorsed Gabe Newell's claim that Windows 8 "is a catastrophe for everyone in the PC space".

Rob Pardo, the executive vice president of game design at the Diablo 3 studio, quoted Newell's comments on his personal twitter account before adding that Windows 8 is "not awesome for Blizzard either".

Discussion on the value of Windows 8 has hitherto been relatively quiet among games designers. Yet Newell, the co-founder of Valve Software, sparked debate on the subject by describing Windows 8 as "a catastrophe".

It appears that his claims were centred on criticisms that that Microsoft will want to have more control over various applications and purchases made through its next operating system. The full details have not yet been announced by Microsoft.

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post #12 of 56 Old 07-28-2012, 05:53 PM
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So what is so dramatically different about Windows 8 compared to 7 ?


What I mean is, what is going on right now in windows 7 for Valve and Blizzard, and what is changing for Windows 8 ?
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post #13 of 56 Old 07-28-2012, 06:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

So what is so dramatically different about Windows 8 compared to 7 ?
What I mean is, what is going on right now in windows 7 for Valve and Blizzard, and what is changing for Windows 8 ?

I'd like to know more too. My first guess is MS wants an app store similar to Apple. This means probably an XBLA style of service for Win8 in addition to your standard everyday apps. I'm not sure where the "catastrophe" comes in. Apple has done this already. Right now Steam boxes you into their DRM and it sounds as if they don't want to be boxed in by MS for a piece of the pie as it were.

For me it sounds like one of those nasty trends in the "mobile" world getting shoehorned into the desktop. If Win8 takes off like it could, due to their unification across screens, Steam will pay to play.


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post #14 of 56 Old 07-28-2012, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by darthrsg View Post

I'd like to know more too. My first guess is MS wants an app store similar to Apple. This means probably an XBLA style of service for Win8 in addition to your standard everyday apps. I'm not sure where the "catastrophe" comes in.

It's not really a guess:

screenshot12jk.png

Desktop apps can also have links in the Store, but those go directly to the developer's site. I don't know for sure, but I see no reason why there can't be a link to the Steam client in the Windows Store for every x86 or x64 PC.

It's Windows RT that probably concerns him more. Since that's an ARM-based operating system, it won't run Steam or any of its games. If that catches on for the future of computing, Valve is pretty much screwed. And honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if it does catch on for the mainstream public. Sure, some of us will always need the power of x86, but ARM is more than fast enough for most people's general computing needs, and has an enormous advantage in battery length / power draw.

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post #15 of 56 Old 07-29-2012, 07:55 PM
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Yeah but I don't think the audience for WInRT would bother with Steam to begin with. I really don't see the harm, personally. Unless they just totally kill the desktop next version and uh...ah I see...haha. Hope Steam's coming along with that Linux initiative! tongue.gif


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post #16 of 56 Old 07-30-2012, 07:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Maybe this year is the year of Linux Desktops?smile.gif


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post #17 of 56 Old 07-30-2012, 10:34 AM
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They've had Linux desktops for years....who wants them? Not me. I just want crap to work....and Windows 95 sort of ushered in that era, Windows 7 has actually perfected it.....in the days before Windows 95.....nothing ever worked right on a pc, game wise.....

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post #18 of 56 Old 07-30-2012, 09:19 PM
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I'm pretty ignorant about this stuff, so don't mind me if this question is silly, but how is Steam going to move to Linux when developers make their games to run on Windows ? I can't imagine Bethesda programming Skyrim to run on Linux.
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post #19 of 56 Old 07-31-2012, 06:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

I'm pretty ignorant about this stuff, so don't mind me if this question is silly, but how is Steam going to move to Linux when developers make their games to run on Windows ? I can't imagine Bethesda programming Skyrim to run on Linux.
You'll get those indie jewels like Mario clones with penguins I suspect. Any AAA title will probably be delayed in comparison to other platforms. You'll probably get all of Valve's stuff as well. I'm no genius either but I think the under lying system of MacOS is Linux/Unix so there's potential for the Steam Play titles to be moved over rather easily.


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post #20 of 56 Old 07-31-2012, 06:49 AM
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Which ultimately in the long run....nothing to see here folks. Gabes plan will eventually end up similar to how it is on Mac with Steam. A secondary to Windows.
His last issue didn't pan out to well when he came on Sony's stage to promote Steam for the PS3. Haven't heard from him since.

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post #21 of 56 Old 07-31-2012, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

I'm pretty ignorant about this stuff, so don't mind me if this question is silly, but how is Steam going to move to Linux when developers make their games to run on Windows ? I can't imagine Bethesda programming Skyrim to run on Linux.

It's primarily a matter of game engine compatibility. Oblivion on Linux? It can be easily done as Gamebryo works on Linux as does Havok. Skyrim on Linux? Maybe, but nobody is really sure what the Creative engine is and how it came to be or what Bethesda has done with it so far. Theories and analysis of Skyrim code say it could be a customized and tweaked version of Gamebryo mixed with Bethesda's own code. Several popular game engines do work well on Linux but the biggest problem Linux has as far as gaming goes is hardware support. For graphics, Nvidia is pretty much the only game in town right now and for audio drivers, most companies whose audio chips are found on motherboards do not have official Linux drivers or offer any sort of Linux support for their audio processors, and Realtek is the only one that offers any sort of support from what I know. Creative Labs, which briefly championed Linux years ago with OpenAL, now shuns Linux and does not want anything to do with it as far as their soundcards go. Also, there's a lot of crap on the audio handling side of Linux that needs to be cleaned and progress is being made with new approaches like KLANG.
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post #22 of 56 Old 07-31-2012, 10:02 AM
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I don't think it's so much about "Skyrim on Linux" as much as it is about positioning themselves in a place they feel is important for the future. The 10 year plan. "If you build it, they will come". Mobile/Tablet technology is taking off, and the big players are iOS and Android. By valve getting their foot in the door with Steam on Mac and Linux, they are in a position to be viable in the market if/when the boundaries between mobile devices and home desktops start to blur. It's hard to imagine the MS giant toppling, but it's certainly not unrealistic for people to start questioning their need for a desktop when their more portable and handy tablet does 95% of the things they used to use their desktop for.

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post #23 of 56 Old 07-31-2012, 12:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krimson View Post

I don't think it's so much about "Skyrim on Linux" as much as it is about positioning themselves in a place they feel is important for the future. The 10 year plan. "If you build it, they will come". Mobile/Tablet technology is taking off, and the big players are iOS and Android. By valve getting their foot in the door with Steam on Mac and Linux, they are in a position to be viable in the market if/when the boundaries between mobile devices and home desktops start to blur. It's hard to imagine the MS giant toppling, but it's certainly not unrealistic for people to start questioning their need for a desktop when their more portable and handy tablet does 95% of the things they used to use their desktop for.

I guess Half Life 3 will be ready in ten years.


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post #24 of 56 Old 07-31-2012, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
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I guess Half Life 3 will be ready in ten years.
"10 year plan" doesn't mean the same thing as "won't be ready for 10 years".

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post #25 of 56 Old 08-01-2012, 09:23 AM
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Win8 looks to me like Microsoft's attempt at improving sales of its phone OS. I like touchscreen OS's for touchscreens. I don't see how they are an improvement for the desktop though.
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post #26 of 56 Old 08-01-2012, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Win8 looks to me like Microsoft's attempt at improving sales of its phone OS. I like touchscreen OS's for touchscreens. I don't see how they are an improvement for the desktop though.
I see it as more of a unification across screens. Similar to how Apple has worked iOS into all its hardware. Phones are a big part sure, but won't really take off until some XBL component nails it. Approaching it from an IT perspective it's been compelling to see MS offering up the features the people in the cubicles have been asking for. Stuff like syncing email and documents on desktop, phone, and tablets in an environment they understand. Lots of people aren't "techie" so there is the potential for some cool happenings.


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post #27 of 56 Old 08-01-2012, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by krimson View Post

"10 year plan" doesn't mean the same thing as "won't be ready for 10 years".

Somebody tell Gabe. tongue.gif
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post #28 of 56 Old 08-01-2012, 06:10 PM
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Yet another voice of discontent:
Quote:
Markus "Notch" Persson, the creator of Minecraft and founder of Mojang, has echoed Valve and Blizzard on the negative repercussions of Windows 8 for developers.

In an interview with the Reddit community, Notch predicted a bright future for independent game developers as long as there are "open and free" platforms to support their work. However, he believes that Microsoft's plans for Windows 8 could be a serious hindrance.

"If Microsoft decides to lock down Windows 8, it would be very, very bad for Indie games and competition in general," he said. "If we can keep open platforms around, there's going to be a lot of very interesting games in ten years, mixed in with the huge AAA games that we all love."

The debate around Windows 8 picked up after Valve's Gabe Newell voiced his concerns at the recent Casual Connect conference, calling the new OS, "a catastrophe for everybody in the PC space." Blizzard's Rob Pardo agreed with Newell via Twitter, claiming that Windows 8, "is not awesome for Blizzard either."

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post #29 of 56 Old 08-01-2012, 06:47 PM
 
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Yup, giving a 30% cut to Microsoft to be on their store is going to absolutely destroy indie gaming. Go ahead and tell all the indie studios publishing through Steam and Apple to shut down right now.

The above is sarcasm. Normally I wouldn't have to point it out, but these boards lately...
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post #30 of 56 Old 08-02-2012, 06:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Yup, giving a 30% cut to Microsoft to be on their store is going to absolutely destroy indie gaming. Go ahead and tell all the indie studios publishing through Steam and Apple to shut down right now.
The above is sarcasm. Normally I wouldn't have to point it out, but these boards lately...
Yeah...these boards. Look at how a locked system has treated Apple.


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