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post #181 of 261 Old 03-27-2014, 03:41 PM
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In that I now know with 100% certainty that a consumer version of Oculus Rift is coming in the next 12 months with VR games in tow. Ditto for Sony Morpheus with PS4. So I'll be spending upwards of $1000 this year for a new PS4...Morpheus...and Oculus Rift .

I don't expect Morpheus till November 2015 at the earliest. You think it's coming March 2015 ?
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post #182 of 261 Old 03-27-2014, 04:08 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't expect Morpheus till November 2015 at the earliest. You think it's coming March 2015 ?

Yeah. That or earlier. I think we could be teased in Q4 this year. Because they are now in a race with Oculus Rift to be first to market.The earlier in the year the better for both Morpheus and Oculus Rift. That will give game Developers the optimum amount of time to wow the market. Especially at E3 2015.

Remember...Sony is talking about making a lot of PS3 titles available for Morpheus early. While they won't be optimized for VR. They will have a decent wow factor. Just like the 300+ older PC titles that are already ready to go for Oculus Rift. I expect a ton of New VR game announcements and complete VR makeover announcements at E3 2015. To do that they will need Morpheus out in the marketplace. I would expect a huge holiday push in November 2015 by major game makers. And by any Johnny come lately console player that have to get on the VR Boat before it gets too far out to sea...with Sony Morpheus and Oculus Rift. I know you, like me have been tracking VR from the start. I for one have never been as excited about a gaming shift in my life. The Morpheus announcement was so strong, it got me firmly off the console show me list. Once I get a clearer sense of the Morpheus timeline, I am pouncing on a PS4. Even though there is a desert of "not much" for me to play on it right now. Sigh...they really missed the boat with me on BC. I would have one right now if it could play PS3 games. So I'll wait for Morpheus and pounce.
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post #183 of 261 Old 03-27-2014, 06:56 PM - Thread Starter
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The following articles are the best balanced and informative ones I have seen. IGN and other game sites are just irrelevant Fanboy sewer surfing IMO.

The last 2 articles relate to Valve. Since some are wondering what it means for them. Upon reflection and past moves made over the last 3 months by OR and Valve, I think they were on board with this all along. IMO Valve just want VR and Oculus Rift to happen ASAP. Because it is customized to their strategies for Future Games Software...Steam OS...Retail....and PC hardware/Steambox evolution. I think this deal gives Valve everything they want without them having to invest hard dollars for Oculus Rift's scale up. I would bet they got some pretty big exclusive deals imbedded in that buy out, along with royalty futures for all of that patent collaboration and people seeding.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2112181/what-facebooks-oculus-rift-buy-means-for-pc-gamers.html

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2014/03/27/oculus-rift-facebook-video-games/?section=money_topstories

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-03-11-oculus-rift-recruits-valves-vr-project-lead-as-chief-architect

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/174661-valve-announces-steamvr-an-oculus-rift-mode-for-steam
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post #184 of 261 Old 03-27-2014, 07:24 PM
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Yeah I'm not sure I agree regarding Valve. I suspect the FB purchase means that Valve is going to quickly start to work on getting their own internal project commercialized. Valve has been great about Oculus support, but only with the goal that Steam is the place you go to get your VR content. With Facebook in the picture and now trying to get their cut (which they've already talked about - FB as a payment platform), Steam becomes far less important. It's the same reason Gabe hates Windows 8 so much and out of that has come Steam OS. I would be shocked if Valve continues to help Oculus the same way they've been so far.
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post #185 of 261 Old 03-27-2014, 07:51 PM
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I'm also curious about what Valve will do. My hope is Oculus compatible games will be available on Steam. A few things to consider I think:

While of course Oculus will be working with developers, it's ultimately the developers making the games- companies other than Facebook/Oculus. What is there to stop the game makers and Valve from selling them on Steam? Either Valve would have to refuse for whatever reason, or Facebook would have to make and enforce it's own storefront. If Facebook did so, it wouldn't quite be like EA's Origin. Origin is the publisher selling its own games. A Facebook store would be Facebook selling other companies' games. It would be sort of like a console environment where everyone who wants to sell an Oculus compatible game has to go through Facebook/Oculus, just as anyone who wants to sell a PS4 game must go through Sony (pay licensing fees and such).

Not sure if this is necessarily relevant this question or not, but Palmer said on Reddit "Facebook has a good track record on open hardware and software, which is great for us. We want to make our hardware and software even more open than they already are, and they are totally cool with that."

My sense is Facebook isn't looking to directly sell PC games, and is instead looking to make money off of non-game VR applications much further down the road. But I see no solid evidence for one way or the other, so I'm just guessing here.
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post #186 of 261 Old 03-28-2014, 11:18 AM
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Interesting non-Facebook-related news: http://www.oculusvr.com/blog/introducing-michael-abrash-oculus-chief-scientist/

Michael Abrash, from Valve, is now joining Oculus.

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post #187 of 261 Old 03-28-2014, 04:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post

Interesting non-Facebook-related news: http://www.oculusvr.com/blog/introducing-michael-abrash-oculus-chief-scientist/

Michael Abrash, from Valve, is now joining Oculus.

major news! abrash and carmack are the best in industry. the deal obviously enabled this. and suggest that valve has ceded any hardware platform to oculus. I still bet they have royalty earnups for joint patent efforts. we'll know when fb start suing folks for infringements.
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post #188 of 261 Old 03-28-2014, 05:28 PM
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Yay, a key figure working on VR for a company that respects their consumers left to work on the same thing for a company that despises us!

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post #189 of 261 Old 03-28-2014, 07:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Yay, a key figure working on VR for a company that respects their consumers left to work on the same thing for a company that despises us!

Do you really think it's that bad BD? I really don't know FaceBook...because I don't use it. My wife loves Her FaceBook account for keeping up with everyone. I am just the opposite. I treasure my solitude more. But I know I felt like you and other folks when Microsoft forced Bing on me. I still hate Bing. And anything Rupert Murdoch. It definitely had impact on my decision to sit out the Xbox One early. Even though it is just as pervasive on Windows and IE. Interestingly my wife loves Bing too. So I don't know what that really says. So I get this up to a point. And that seems to be what a lot of people are describing here and elsewhere. I just think this kind of stuff happens with all big things. I do have a hard time believing that FaceBook would slam things down the throat any more than what I get on PC now or the consoles. I guess time will tell. Overall I still like the deal. It's going to accelerate the launch or VR. And improve its chance of success. Because it left tech operational and strategic decisions in tech hands. So that's why I think Valve, Abrash, Carmack and others are on board. VR is going to become a crowded field fast IMO. MS and Apple are still to speak. And that is good for us. Even though neither of them are anymore caring about us than FaceBook IMO. We will have choices. And can flush FaceBook if it overplays itself here.
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post #190 of 261 Old 03-28-2014, 07:56 PM
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I can't help but envision the Wall-E future if VR takes off like cell phones did. The streets are crowded with feet staring shuffle walkers already. I guess the streets would clear up some. Will bottles of pee become more prevalent in the "Post Your VR Theater Setup" thread? On second thought if FB OR gets Fbookers to stay inside we need to figure out that human battery tech pretty soon after. I need that data port in my head like Neo.

I think part of the stigma for FB, at least for me, is when you get around people that it actually drives. The ones that think a donkey or an elephant are right or that Snopes doesn't exist. Sure some good comes of it but it's similar to the Monoliths in 2001. Advancement for the masses, if you will. There are people out there than can upload a pic to FB from a speak and spell but can't tell you their IP address and the hard core gear heads take that a little personal. It's like when Apple made everyone with an iPhone an overnight Systems Admin. Rift felt special and from the greatest of places for "our" crowd. It's like the lead singer of your favorite band getting replaced.
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post #191 of 261 Old 03-28-2014, 09:14 PM
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Do you really think it's that bad BD? I really don't know FaceBook...because I don't use it. My wife loves Her FaceBook account for keeping up with everyone. I am just the opposite. I treasure my solitude more. But I know I felt like you and other folks when Microsoft forced Bing on me. I still hate Bing. And anything Rupert Murdoch. It definitely had impact on my decision to sit out the Xbox One early. Even though it is just as pervasive on Windows and IE. Interestingly my wife loves Bing too. So I don't know what that really says. So I get this up to a point. And that seems to be what a lot of people are describing here and elsewhere. I just think this kind of stuff happens with all big things. I do have a hard time believing that FaceBook would slam things down the throat any more than what I get on PC now or the consoles. I guess time will tell. Overall I still like the deal. It's going to accelerate the launch or VR. And improve its chance of success. Because it left tech operational and strategic decisions in tech hands. So that's why I think Valve, Abrash, Carmack and others are on board. VR is going to become a crowded field fast IMO. MS and Apple are still to speak. And that is good for us. Even though neither of them are anymore caring about us than FaceBook IMO. We will have choices. And can flush FaceBook if it overplays itself here.

Yes, I honestly believe there is a radical difference in the way Facebook views their users vs a company like valve. It'd take me about ten paragraphs to articulate why if you're not already familiar with them, but in a nutshell, valve cultivates a mutually beneficial relationship with the users (very similar to the way oculus operated). But facebook smiles in your face and stabs you in the back....it's basically an empire built on deceit.

It's as if luke skywalker took the bait and left the rebel alliance to join forces with the empire. I can't bring myself to cheer it on. There's a big part of me that now wants to see oculus crash and burn, so someone less evil can take their place. I'm fine with VR taking a little while longer to take off if that's what it takes.
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post #192 of 261 Old 03-28-2014, 09:31 PM
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One big positive if the FBOR takes off and is adopted like FB is that those folks will be inside, off the streets, and not breeding. We'll get a good chance to raise a generation of non hipster-teacup kids that eat cheetos from under the couch and that can drive the sh*t out of Jagers. When the FBOR folks emerge they will be Morlocks and easy kills for our kids.
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post #193 of 261 Old 03-29-2014, 07:33 AM
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There's a big part of me that now wants to see oculus crash and burn, so someone less evil can take their place. I'm fine with VR taking a little while longer to take off if that's what it takes.

That's a bold statement. Note that Michael Abrash has moved from Valve to Oculus following the Facebook development. You've made some assertions, such as Facebook is "dishonest" and "despises us." Fine, but I think you should type out your ten paragraph argument to support your assertions, especially as it applies to Oculus. I don't see it. A personal grudge doesn't cut it. The anti-Facebook sentiment appears to be retreating, so if you want to bolster it I think you need to give us something convincing.
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post #194 of 261 Old 03-29-2014, 09:50 AM
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That's a bold statement. Note that Michael Abrash has moved from Valve to Oculus following the Facebook development. You've made some assertions, such as Facebook is "dishonest" and "despises us." Fine, but I think you should type out your ten paragraph argument to support your assertions, especially as it applies to Oculus. I don't see it. A personal grudge doesn't cut it. The anti-Facebook sentiment appears to be retreating, so if you want to bolster it I think you need to give us something convincing.

It's a gut feeling built up from nearly a decade of using Facebook.

If there's anything that should at least give you pause, it's the overwhelming negative reaction itself. You might not understand why it's so negative, but the magnitude of the reaction should speak for itself.

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post #195 of 261 Old 03-29-2014, 11:04 AM
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I don't use FB, so I'm like BB.

You can't change anything on your end unless you got 3 billion dollars.

I don't see how this device is going to fit into the world of the facebook kids or moms. The type that use facebook constantly. There are quite a few I know of in my life. I don't see them ever putting on these goggles to do whatever facebook might have planned that doesn't involve the video game heritage this thing started with. Most of them use FB on their phone and don't use a PC anyway.

Unless they want to make a google glass type of product I don't see this changing very much.

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post #196 of 261 Old 03-29-2014, 03:40 PM - Thread Starter
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There's an old saying: "Even a dog knows when whether a person is tripping over it, or is intentionally kicking it." That's why I do take what critics are saying about FB seriously. While I don't share the feeling...I respect it. And know exactly where it's coming from. Because as I've said before. I feel the exact same way about Rupert Murdoch and all of his insidious properties. Especially Bing. I know many people don't share my sentiments about hi,. But I think he is one of the most vile and evil people in America. One who has completely divided, polarized and poisoned the nation through his misuse of media and abuse of power. I absolutely hate being forced to buy his tainted media as part of my FiOS package. And Bing as part of IE and Windows. But the reality is...regardless of what I think about Murdoch, many people love him and his products. And they really do not prevent me from enjoying what I like about TV viewing or news consumption. I just have to live with the despised Murdoch tax (fees) imposed upon my system or swap it out completely.

That is my choice. And Oculus Rift will impose the same choice on many who thirst for pure VR and will love it. So I completely get what some are saying here. IMO Oculus Rift and Sony Morpheus are just the first steps in 'pure VR'. They will get better and there is much more to come. As the platform grows in popularity, I can guarantee this. Services will emerge that will make FB seem like Daycare School in terms of potential malicious intrusion. Just look at TV broadcasting, Cable and Personal Computer Usage...and how the Ugly and Bad just glued themselves onto the same platform of the Good.

I think we will get pure VR gaming for PC from Oculus Rift...on "Steroids". Guys like Carmack and Abrash...along with companies like Valve wouldn't be so all-in with them otherwise. But the trick for FB will come later IMO. It will be when OR migrates the platform over to mobile. They are already firmly entrenched in the PC market. And really don't need OR to drive their brand there. Introduction of VR into mobile is a whole other animal though. And FB integration could be a boom to some and curse to others. Especially if they are as untrustworthy as some suggest. I have zero opinion on that matter. other than this. I don't really trust any of the corporations who make the products I use. I think they would all sell their souls to the devil for more money, control and power. For sure I favor some over others. But generally speaking, I could care less where any of them get there investment money from. If that was the criteria, most of us would never buy anything from any of them.

The trick is sort of what BD2003 described. Meaning (paraphrased)...get your money...but you better not use it to kick me down in your product or the new one I like. Or intrude callously upon my personal options and space. I'm totally on board with that sentiment. "Kick this dog and he will bite back!" I don't think that FB will risk Oculus Rift in any way, shape or form in PC gaming. They know it would be catastrophic. It would intrude far too much into how VR Game Devs want to structure social media into the games themselves in the future. No way they go there IMO. FB just needs collaboration and licensing in that space. And that means even new VR based Site executions. I bet there will be a lot of innovative new collaborations between FB and AAA game devs on creative new branded ways to do this in-game.

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"I don't see how this device is going to fit into the world of the facebook kids or moms. The type that use facebook constantly."
slideshows...family or personal videos...different site gatherings...VR game sharing and in game interaction like the kind being pioneered by Bungie in Destiny...The Shy is the limit IMO for people who love social media. Or even new ones who are just curious about it.
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post #197 of 261 Old 03-29-2014, 04:16 PM
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Reports are emerging on the side effects of extended use of VR.

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post #198 of 261 Old 03-29-2014, 05:16 PM
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I feel the exact same way about Rupert Murdoch and all of his insidious properties. Especially Bing.

Not sure what these two sentences have to do with each other.

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post #199 of 261 Old 03-29-2014, 05:51 PM
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Not sure what these two sentences have to do with each other.

Old Zuckerberg and Murdoch are cut from the same "pay no mind to his hand but watch this hand instead" cloth if you ask me. Murdoch made a deal with Bing/MS to give exclusive search results from his companies to those products. Not sure if it ever happened.
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post #200 of 261 Old 03-29-2014, 08:11 PM
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It's the beginning of Surrogates! Didn't people in the movie basically use their robot bodies to socialize? Imagine facebook as a VR, where everybody is just talking about their food choices, and complaining about medical problems. Sounds almost like a horrible family reunion. There's a reason those only last a short time. Skype with head tracking that moves the other person's camera would be pretty cool though.
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post #201 of 261 Old 03-29-2014, 08:55 PM
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I know there's probably some great ideas for social facebook VR. I don't see the people I described as the type to don a headset to chat to someone. They need a De Beers type marketing campaign to get this over on these types.

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post #202 of 261 Old 03-30-2014, 07:33 AM
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It's a gut feeling built up from nearly a decade of using Facebook.

If there's anything that should at least give you pause, it's the overwhelming negative reaction itself. You might not understand why it's so negative, but the magnitude of the reaction should speak for itself.

I joined Facebook in September 2004, its first year. I'm not a heavy user, but I'm certainly not new to it. I've been signed up longer that the vast majority. In my personal life, facebook.com has proven itself useful for its intended purpose. Since moving from the US to Japan, I've met a lot of people from many countries. The UK, Singapore, New Zealand, etc, plus of course Japan. Facebook brings us all together, with great language support. You might not realize how fantastically multilingual it is.

My best experience with facebook.com was logging in at around 2:00 AM Sun March 13, when the power came back following the March 11, 2011 Tohoku earthquake and tsunami. Tons of messages from friends, former coworkers, etc. They didn't know my email address (nor me theirs), but they knew my name and where I lived, so they knew I was affected and were able to reach me (and me them).

What does that positive experience have to do with Oculus? Nothing I think, because Oculus will remain independent. But to the extent it matters, it's a counter to the negative "gut feeling" of some. Neither are useful in application to Oculus going forward I think. No, the "overwhelming negative reaction" doesn't give me pause, because I don't see it as rational. I happen to think it's a vocal minority as well, but that's beside the point. In any case, I continue to find this topic extremely interesting almost one week in!
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post #203 of 261 Old 03-31-2014, 07:14 PM
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I never even considered using Facebook. It's not the service itself, but rather my unsociable personality. You meet enough slovenly, veritable a-holes in life and that's what will happen to you.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see where this goes. I'm currently not sold on the idea of the VR experience, but things change.
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post #204 of 261 Old 04-01-2014, 05:21 AM
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I never even considered using Facebook. It's not the service itself, but rather my unsociable personality. You meet enough slovenly, veritable a-holes in life and that's what will happen to you.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see where this goes. I'm currently not sold on the idea of the VR experience, but things change.

Perfect for teh gamerz then. Genius move by FB.
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post #205 of 261 Old 04-01-2014, 10:34 AM
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It's looking less and less likely that my prediction about Steam ramping up their own research and product as competition, now that more and more of Valve's VR team seems to be going to Oculus:

https://twitter.com/oculus/status/450780024770023424

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post #206 of 261 Old 04-01-2014, 10:51 AM
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It's looking less and less likely that my prediction about Steam ramping up their own research and product as competition, now that more and more of Valve's VR team seems to be going to Oculus:

https://twitter.com/oculus/status/450780024770023424

Something tells me valve employees need a raise. tongue.gif

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post #207 of 261 Old 04-01-2014, 10:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Valve and Oculus Rift were wedded at the hip on VR. They still are. That's one of the main reasons why I am even more excited about it than even a few weeks ago. Because it is now imminent. FB provided the cash, financial & inventory stability. Valve provided technology support, people and industry stability. Gaming on PC and PS4 are about to become a ton of fun. The TitanFall team said they're doing a VR version too. As soon as VR hardware hits the market. 2015 perhaps? I think I'll wait till that one comes out for PC before buying it. The VR multiplayer community for that one could be gigantic!
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post #208 of 261 Old 04-01-2014, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Something tells me valve employees need a raise. tongue.gif

It's also possible it could be a situation similar to Jeri Ellsworth and the rest of Valve's former Augmented Reality team (now at CastAR), where Valve decided they didn't want to go in a certain direction, so anyone who was working on that project was free to leave to pursue it more in depth.

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post #209 of 261 Old 04-01-2014, 05:05 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't trust something about this Luckey guy. Last year he says he won't sell the company to any one, makes some good Kickstarter money at the time and we see he changed his mind. They start taking money for the new beta kit last week, knowing full well that some would not have done so had they known this FB deal was brewing. I don't think he is as open with his intentions as he tries to appear.

Hopefully they do not compromise their hardcore gamer long-term plans, but I won't be surprised if they do.

JB:
It took me awhile to circle back to you on this one. My advice would be to keep that enthusiasm of yours for VR running sky high. These are the most exciting of times for the upcoming VR blitzkrieg. I can't wait for E3! I think we are going to get some blockbuster VR announcements there. I am tremendously excited about Oculus Rift and Sony Morpheus. I will be day one with both! At E3 I wouldn't be surprised to hear Titanfall VR...ME Trilogy One VR...ME 4 VR...OrangeBox Redo VR...Portal 1 & 2 VR...HL3 VR...GOW VR..EVE Online VR...Prey 1 & 2 VR...and a wave of new and popular PS and PC IPs coming in the next 3 years. IMO we are heading into a renaissance period in video gaming spearheaded by VR.

Give Palmer Luckey a little slack. IMO he didn't betray anyone. I think the kid looked at the sheer scale of ramping up production on Oculus Rift for a global launch...along with what the Development community wanted to stake out. And realized he didn't have the money or chops to pull it off without bringing in some serious players. Or ceding control to several micromanaging titans who offered to buy him out and kick him out. FaceBook truly was a "White Knight" acquisition in this deal. He kept technical and operational control of his baby. And got at least 2 more stages of financing from a single source. With an opportunity for him and his key team to cash out as multi millionaires and billionaires over the next 10-15 years.

Now think back over the past 3 years. Palmer Luckey is a kid! From 19-22 with this kind of accomplishment. When You, I and everyone else on any forum were that age...what were we doing? I can only speak for me on this one. When I was that young...and had an idea like this...and had taken it so far that I could actually see a finish line...if only I and my key players could recess our egos a bit...and Mr. Big showed up offering $2 Billion to make it happen...let me keep control where I like to play...And roll in money if successful...I'd take that deal so fast everyone's head would spin. Whew! that was the longest sentence, with more dangling participles than I've ever done. But in all seriousness. Don't give up on this kid. I bet losing his best friend and second in command last summer to accidental death shook young Palmer more than people realize. ANd he wanted his idea structured and funded if anything happened to him. I don't think he sold us or anyone out. I think he insured we all will get the brilliant product he promised. I thin k a great American story is being written here. And we fans are the vanguard movement of it.

Keep the faith!
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post #210 of 261 Old 04-02-2014, 01:18 AM
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