Bought a cheapo $400 PC for the kids, need a good Video Card under $100.... what to get ? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 33 Old 12-09-2012, 10:11 PM - Thread Starter
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I bought a Lenovo H430-57311430 PC. This PC is actually to be used by my kids, mostly for them screwing around with video editing, but I also want this PC to have the ability to play some games. The funny thing is, the Ivy Bridge i5-3330 in their PC, is better than the Sandy Bridge i5-2500k in my personal PC...... right ? Of course, I'm not sure if the memory is any good, or very fast, not sure what kind of crappy motherboard they put in this. I also know that I can't upgrade the ram past 8gb, which really sucks. The power supply is a very weak power supply. So, whatever video card I add to it, it needs to be one that barely uses any power. Otherwise, have to upgrade the power supply right away, which would kinda suck. I mean, certainly, I could upgrade it, but was trying to spend the least amount of money possible. I was really supposed to get a $300 PC, not a $400 one.

http://slickdeals.net/f/5658626-Lenovo-H430-57311430-Desktop-PC-Intel-Core-i5-3330-3GHz-Ivy-Bridge-8GB-RAM-1TB-HD-DVD-Burner-Media-Card-Reader-Windows-8-1-year-warranty-400-AC-Staples-com-and-In-Store



•Intel Core i5-3330 3GHz 6MB Cache Processor
•8GB DDR3 1333MHz Memory
•1TB SATA Hard Drive
•DVD Burner
•Media Card Reader
•Gigabit LAN
•Windows 8



Looking at Tom's Hardware Guide, I've seen the recomendations for the best video card for the money. I'm trying to stick with cards that would be under $100 out the door with tax,shipping, everything. On Tom's, they recommend the Radeon HD 6670 DDR3, as the best video card for $65 or less. I'm not sure how much power this card consumes, and if I could use it safely with the Lenovo. I think I have to get a "half-height" video card, to be able to put it inside the smaller tower.For more $$$ is the Radeon HD 7750. Supposedly these can be found $99.99 somehwere, but with tax and everything, it would go slightly over my $100 limit. I've heard that the 7750 doesn't use very much power, so I might be able to get away with leaving the current power supply in there. I'm not sure how large the card is, and whether or not it would fit inside the Lenovo.

Another thing to consider, is that I'm a bit partial to Nvidia right now. It seems that certain PC games tend to run better on Nvidia cards, plus, because my kids are going to try to do some video editing, I think the Nvidia cards usually are better at that... Right ? I'm not seeing much bang for the buck from Nvidia for under $100 though.



Damn.... I was just looking at Tom's Hardware Guide, and it seems that all of these cards recommend at least a 400 watt power supply,and I'm pretty sure the one currently in the lenovo is less than that. Ouch. Guess, I'm going to have to add a power supply into the mix.
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post #2 of 33 Old 12-10-2012, 07:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Here's a question... If I buy any random power supply (obviously one that is normally considered solid...) will it fit in this Lenovo mid tower ? I don't know if power supplies come in differnent sizes and might not fit into the Lenovo case. I'm guessing I pretty much have to upgrade the power supply for any card that I get for it.
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post #3 of 33 Old 12-11-2012, 06:50 AM
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For $100 you're talking about either a 7750 or a GTX 650 for a few dollars more. That's pretty much it.

Any PS should fit in your tower as long as it's a standard sized tower. But don't upgrade yet, you might get away with using what you currently have. They might be rated for 400w but usually run on a lot less. Open up your tower and see if you have extra power connections for the videocard. If you find you're having problems after you upgrade you can always buy a new PSU later.

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post #4 of 33 Old 12-11-2012, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
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So the 7750 seems to be the way to go then, especially considering it's supposed to use less power. The thing is, the original idea for this PC was the fact that it's for my kids, so that they can learn how to edit their videos and play around with making goofy movies and videos. I'm pretty sure that I've always heard that Nvidia was the way to go because of CUDA or whatever. I have zero knowledge about this stuff, but I'm pretty sure I remember people talking about CUDA and video editing, and that Nvidia has it and AMD doesn't. Should that factor into my decision ?


One other question if I may.... If I don't buy any video card at all, and just use the integrated Intel graphics thing, can you play anything with that ?
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post #5 of 33 Old 12-11-2012, 08:33 PM
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Intel graphics are certainly good enough for light gaming. Depends on what your kids are going to do with it. Stuff like Diablo 3 should be more than playable on it on low-medium settings. Once again, why not just fool around with it before investing money in something extra and see if it suits your purposes?

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post #6 of 33 Old 12-11-2012, 09:30 PM
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Exactly. Start with a sturdy, inexpensive build. Then add to it if they need it. And, hell, if they're screwing around with video editing, would it be terrible to show them a thing or two about putting a PC together? wink.gif

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post #7 of 33 Old 12-12-2012, 08:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Here's the thing, I would like to be able to play some of my PC games on this new PC as well. There are going to be times when it would be convienent for me to play on that one, so I would like it if the PC could run all of my games. To start off, the monitor in there will be 1440 x 900. I want to run all my games at near maximum settings. I have games like Assassin's Creed 2, Dead Space 1 and 2, Mass Effect 1 and 2, Fallout 3, Rage, Batman 1 & 2, Bulletstorm, Need For Speed Hot Pursuit, Fifa, NBA 2k, Mirror's Edge, Darksiders, Bioshock, Crysis 2, etc...

I'd like to be able to run Far Cry 3 on half way decent settings.


A 7750 sounds like a good value. Would that card fit in a tiny Lenovo ? It's not a full sized tower.
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post #8 of 33 Old 12-12-2012, 08:46 PM
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You're probably going to have to measure the case. You can find the videocard's dimensions at Newegg or the manufacture's website. If a standard card won't fit maybe a low-profile card might work?

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post #9 of 33 Old 12-13-2012, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveFi View Post

For $100 you're talking about either a 7750 or a GTX 650 for a few dollars more. That's pretty much it.

Yup.

This isn't a complete list of games, but you can see here that between the two cards the 650 leads more often than it follows while running cooler and using about the same power:
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/535?vs=681

650 cards are generally really short (length-wise). Judging by photos of the computer model, it sure looks like you could fit one in there. But like was suggested above, measure twice, buy once.
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post #10 of 33 Old 12-15-2012, 09:21 PM - Thread Starter
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I was talking to a guy today at Fry's Electronics about putting a video card in this PC, and he said that I should choose a video card that gets all it's power from the PCI slot, or whatever. Like a card that doesn't even connect to the power supply directly. I'm going to look on Tom's Hardware Guide and try to find out which cards can get all their power from the PCI slot.
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post #11 of 33 Old 12-16-2012, 09:34 PM
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post #12 of 33 Old 12-17-2012, 01:56 AM
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Your letting you kids play +18 games? Sorry, but in light on the recent mass shooting, do you think thats a good idea? Nasa is flying things to Mars and shootings asteroids with rockets, and with HD Nasa feed we surely can feel the same joy that Nasa personnel feel during/after a successful mission, etc, are you sure your giving your kids the right direction? Your probably a good enough parent, but plz be careful.
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post #13 of 33 Old 12-17-2012, 03:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

I'd like to be able to run Far Cry 3 on half way decent settings.
Check out this performance review that just came out comparing different GPUs and graphics settings:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/far-cry-3-performance-benchmark,3379-4.html
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Originally Posted by tory40 View Post

Your letting you kids play +18 games? Sorry, but in light on the recent mass shooting, do you think thats a good idea? Nasa is flying things to Mars and shootings asteroids with rockets, and with HD Nasa feed we surely can feel the same joy that Nasa personnel feel during/after a successful mission, etc, are you sure your giving your kids the right direction? Your probably a good enough parent, but plz be careful.

rolleyes.gif
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post #14 of 33 Old 12-17-2012, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

Here's the thing, I would like to be able to play some of my PC games on this new PC as well. There are going to be times when it would be convienent for me to play on that one, so I would like it if the PC could run all of my games. To start off, the monitor in there will be 1440 x 900. I want to run all my games at near maximum settings. I have games like Assassin's Creed 2, Dead Space 1 and 2, Mass Effect 1 and 2, Fallout 3, Rage, Batman 1 & 2, Bulletstorm, Need For Speed Hot Pursuit, Fifa, NBA 2k, Mirror's Edge, Darksiders, Bioshock, Crysis 2, etc...
I'd like to be able to run Far Cry 3 on half way decent settings.
A 7750 sounds like a good value. Would that card fit in a tiny Lenovo ? It's not a full sized tower.
That's quite a list. If you want those games "at near maximum settings," you're going to have to sacrifice framerate. Depends on how picky you are. You'll have better luck with some of those more than others.

If you plan on using it so much yourself, why not just shell out another $20-40 for the HD7770? You get a pretty sizable boost to performance for not much more money. Not sure about dimensions for the case, though. You'll have to do some measuring. I'm the devil in your ear... wink.gif

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post #15 of 33 Old 12-25-2012, 12:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, I finally opened up the PC Box today. It was a Xmas gift to the family. I opened the thing up to look at the power supply. Unfortunately, I have bad news.

it has a Huntkey HK380 12GP S2 power supply. It's a 280 watt PSU. The power supply seems to be "built-in" to the case. I don't think I can remove this power supply at all. It's either keep this PSU or return the PC to Staples.


Here is a look at the motherboard:




and a close-up on the PCIe slot:






It basically appears that the only video card that I could safely add to this PC would be a 7750. Unless there are other video cards that get all their power from the PCIe slot, and use as little power as a 7750 at full load. Anything else is going to result in a ton of crashes, etc.


Another option would be to buy another case and power supply, and basically transfer everything into the new case. At this point though, I might as well just build the PC from ground up. The thing is, I really don't want to have to do that. Building a PC from the ground up has it's own set of issues that I really don't want to get involved with. This PC isn't really for me, it's for the family, and while I would like to also be able to play some of my games on it, I'm just not sure it's worth all the drama of me doing an entire PC build for it. One of the biggest problems with building your own PC, is that you also have to pay for the version of Windows that you're putting in it. Sure, it can be quite cheap to buy the case, motherboard, PSu, etc, etc, and assemble it all together, but then you still need to put Windows on it, and that adds like another $80 to the price as well. I got this PC for $399.99. I know that I could spend $600 and build a better PC, and be able to have an OEM version of Windows for it, but I'm not really interested in spending 600 snappers.


What to do ?
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post #16 of 33 Old 01-22-2013, 05:44 PM
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get a short profile graphic card but they are not good performers.
I would get a normal card then get a split cable to get power from PSU, since your PSU is only 280W you don't have much choices.
they sell these with cheap PSU and small chasis to lower the price down which cut down room of improvement
I would suggest you can use it for now, and build another one next time
you won't regret spending extra
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post #17 of 33 Old 01-22-2013, 06:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, I kinda realized that I screwed myself with this. While the PC was very cheap, considering it's got an i5, I payed for it in many other areas. The Motherboard is limited to 8 gigs ram. You can't upgrade it beyond that, without moving to a new motherboard. I just thought it would be decent for awhile, and would be able to play my backlogged games. I knew it wouldn't be powerful enough to play super high end games coming soon, but that's just the way it goes. My main PC is in my man cave. This one is in the family room. It's more of a general purpose PC for the whole family to use. I just wanted to also be able to game on it, because on the other side of the wall where it's currently located, is my 50 inch plasma. The thing is, this think can't be running games at 1920 x 1080, because it's already struggling in certain games at 1440 x 900 (the monitor in my family room)

It seems that the only card that I can use is a slim line Sapphire 7750. But I was looking at the stats of what a 7750 can do, and they are pretty lame. My older 560 Ti in my man cave is still much better.


One option I'm thinking about is just getting a separate case and PSU, and then I can get something much better. I was really hoping to avoid spending any $$$ on a case or PSU, but it seems like I'm not going to have a choice.
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post #18 of 33 Old 01-22-2013, 06:32 PM
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a decent case can last quite a while, say 5yrs to a decade even more, it will give you good airflow and nice room of expansion.
I used to get case that's just enough for all the devices I have, it's compact but somehow the devices lifespan is not quite good.
Then I got a mid-tower from coolermaster around 2005 and though did one upgrade from DDR to DDR3, the case is still fine and fit into living room well
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post #19 of 33 Old 01-23-2013, 03:59 PM
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Looks like a normal ATX mid tower. There should be screws around where you plug the psu into the wall. I just looked at Newegg and it is definitely a standard ATX power supply. Here you go:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371029

400watt 30 bucks

80plus built by Seasonic i believe.

You can see the screws at the top of the case in the image below.

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post #20 of 33 Old 01-24-2013, 09:23 PM - Thread Starter
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the problem is, the power supply is basically just "locked" into that PC. I really don't think there is any normal way of getting the thing out, and getting another one in. It's hard to explain, but if you saw the thing in person, you'd know what I mean.
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post #21 of 33 Old 01-25-2013, 09:23 PM
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Did you get a GPU yet? I just wanted to chime in and say that I have a sapphire 7750 in my HT/gaming PC right now. I'm kind of forced to use that card as it's the best low profile card ATM (it's a slim HTPC case), but it runs 95% of what I throw at it just fine @1920x1080 (even with DX11 enabled), so at the resolution that you mentioned it should be a non issue for a long time to come. The GTX 650 is another option too as others have mentioned, but it's going to cost a few bucks more.

Oh BTW as others were mentioning that PSU should be removable. There should be 4 tiny phillips/hex head screws right in the back of the PSU. Loosen them up to see if the PSU slides foward. It might be a PITA to remove (I've seen some of those pre-built systems where you have to remove the whole motherboard just to get the PSU out), but it's a worthwhile upgrade since a new one can be much more effecient and have at least one 6-pin GPU power connector. By your first post I see that you're on slickdeals. Grab something effecient like a CX430 or EA380 which go on sale all the time for about $20 (you don't need for a modest video card and plus that CPU is very effecient). If you do this then you could probably upgrade the GPU to something like a 7770 or 650ti.
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post #22 of 33 Old 01-25-2013, 10:25 PM
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Return to staples and buy a barebones kit or just piece together a whole system. 75% of the cost and you get 50% more power. Plus you can teach your kids how to put together a computer!

Start at tigerdirect, newegg or amazon. http://pcpartpicker.com is good for finding the lowest price for any given component. NCIX is a canadian retailer (like newegg), if you're from Canada.

Good luck!
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post #23 of 33 Old 01-26-2013, 02:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregck View Post

Return to staples and buy a barebones kit or just piece together a whole system. 75% of the cost and you get 50% more power. Plus you can teach your kids how to put together a computer!

Start at tigerdirect, newegg or amazon. http://pcpartpicker.com is good for finding the lowest price for any given component. NCIX is a canadian retailer (like newegg), if you're from Canada.

Good luck!
He already mentioned that he wouldn't be able to do that for the price he wanted to spend. I don't know where you're getting 75% of the cost from. That system has a 3rd gen i5. From most online vendors that alone is going to run you close to $200. Add RAM, a motherboard, hard drive, optical drive, case, PSU, and most importantly the OS (as he stated earlier he didn't have) and you're easily up around $600. I know what you're saying because I haven't bought a pre-built system in 15 years (aftermarket stuff is easier to upgrade and almost always better quality), but not everyone has the knowledge or time to invest in a PC build. And besides, I'm pretty sure that he is WAY past the Spales return period since this thread was started over a month ago.

BTW, microcenter has by far the best deals on CPUs/motherboards if you have one around (they usually only have decent deals at their B&M locations). They have the better prices on CPUs than any online vendor, plus you get $40 discounts when you couple them with a motherboard. Their prices blow in the wind, but you can often get an i5-3570K with a z77 motherboard for around $200. The egg never has deals that good. They often have deals on AMD bundles (see here), but obviously that doesn't compare to what the OP bought.
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post #24 of 33 Old 01-27-2013, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ryan L View Post

Did you get a GPU yet? I just wanted to chime in and say that I have a sapphire 7750 in my HT/gaming PC right now. I'm kind of forced to use that card as it's the best low profile card ATM (it's a slim HTPC case), but it runs 95% of what I throw at it just fine @1920x1080 (even with DX11 enabled), so at the resolution that you mentioned it should be a non issue for a long time to come. The GTX 650 is another option too as others have mentioned, but it's going to cost a few bucks more.

I was bumping around the net one day, and I was looking at Sapphire 7750 related stuff, and I ran across some benchmarks for that card. It showed with Battlefield 3 that it was getting about 23 fps running at 1080p, and after seeing that, I was thinking that maybe this card would be a bad idea. Not that I'm a huge Battlefield 3 guy or anything, but it just made me second guess the idea of buying that card.

Right now, I'm basically in a wait and see mode in regards to adding a vid card or trying to upgrade the PSU or get a new case/psu, etc, etc. I don't really use that PC too much (my main rig is in my man cave), so I'm just keeping an eye out in case that Sapphire card goes on sale for really cheap or something. I'm in no huge rush to upgrade it. Part of the reason might be that the monitor it's currently hooked up to is 1440 x 900, and I haven't hooked it up to the 1080p plasma yet. Maybe when I hook it up to the 1080p plasma and change the resolutions to 1080p, then my framerates will drop into the teens, and I'll know that I need to get a card or do something.
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post #25 of 33 Old 01-27-2013, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

I was bumping around the net one day, and I was looking at Sapphire 7750 related stuff, and I ran across some benchmarks for that card. It showed with Battlefield 3 that it was getting about 23 fps running at 1080p, and after seeing that, I was thinking that maybe this card would be a bad idea. Not that I'm a huge Battlefield 3 guy or anything, but it just made me second guess the idea of buying that card.

Right now, I'm basically in a wait and see mode in regards to adding a vid card or trying to upgrade the PSU or get a new case/psu, etc, etc. I don't really use that PC too much (my main rig is in my man cave), so I'm just keeping an eye out in case that Sapphire card goes on sale for really cheap or something. I'm in no huge rush to upgrade it. Part of the reason might be that the monitor it's currently hooked up to is 1440 x 900, and I haven't hooked it up to the 1080p plasma yet. Maybe when I hook it up to the 1080p plasma and change the resolutions to 1080p, then my framerates will drop into the teens, and I'll know that I need to get a card or do something.
You have to take many of those reviews with a huge grain of salt because most of them were made when the cards were first released. There's been several driver updates that improved performance (I'm sure that a few AMD users here can back up what I'm saying). I'm no fan of BF3 either so I can't comment on that title in particular (sounds like it's a poorly optimized game anyhow), but just about everything that I've thrown its way does wonderfully at 1080P. For instance, it runs Crysis 2 (a game that would bring my previous card, an OCed GTS450 to its knees) with DX11 on, high resolution textures installed/enabled, and on the second from highest preset (ultra I believe) in the mid-forties FPS. The only setting that I turned off was motion blur (can't stand that effect). I'm not 100% sure, but I think that you can go to steam community and view what games a user has. About 90% of the games I have are on Steam so you can just ask about any of them. The only one I can think of off the top of my head that didn't work well (didn't really work without stuttering badly no matter what settings I used) was Sonic & Sega All-stars racing. It's known not to work right with newer AMD cards (poor coding or something) so it's not a driver issue. It's a shame too because my daughter loves it and it's one of the few split screen multiplayer games out there for PC. If you want a similar game, F1 superstars works great.

EDIT: forgot to mention that my Steam username is ryanl2299
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post #26 of 33 Old 01-28-2013, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

I was bumping around the net one day, and I was looking at Sapphire 7750 related stuff, and I ran across some benchmarks for that card. It showed with Battlefield 3 that it was getting about 23 fps running at 1080p, and after seeing that, I was thinking that maybe this card would be a bad idea. Not that I'm a huge Battlefield 3 guy or anything, but it just made me second guess the idea of buying that card.

Right now, I'm basically in a wait and see mode in regards to adding a vid card or trying to upgrade the PSU or get a new case/psu, etc, etc. I don't really use that PC too much (my main rig is in my man cave), so I'm just keeping an eye out in case that Sapphire card goes on sale for really cheap or something. I'm in no huge rush to upgrade it. Part of the reason might be that the monitor it's currently hooked up to is 1440 x 900, and I haven't hooked it up to the 1080p plasma yet. Maybe when I hook it up to the 1080p plasma and change the resolutions to 1080p, then my framerates will drop into the teens, and I'll know that I need to get a card or do something.

I wonder if it is safe to run even the 7750 with 280w. AMD recommends a 400w psu btw. You have to remember that with time psu's lose power capacity.

If a game isn't pushing the fps that you want then you turn down some of the less needed graphical settings. In a couple years the 7750 will probably be trash though.
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post #27 of 33 Old 01-28-2013, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

I was bumping around the net one day, and I was looking at Sapphire 7750 related stuff, and I ran across some benchmarks for that card. It showed with Battlefield 3 that it was getting about 23 fps running at 1080p, and after seeing that, I was thinking that maybe this card would be a bad idea. Not that I'm a huge Battlefield 3 guy or anything, but it just made me second guess the idea of buying that card.

Most of the BF3 benchmarks at 1080p are run on Ultra settings with full AA/AF.
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Originally Posted by macks View Post

If a game isn't pushing the fps that you want then you turn down some of the less needed graphical settings. In a couple years the 7750 will probably be trash though.

Good advice. Tune the game as needed to get closer to 60fps. Look at it this way, even if you run BF3 at low settings at 1080p or Ultra settings at 720p, it still looks way better than the 360/PS3 versions.
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Originally Posted by macks View Post

I wonder if it is safe to run even the 7750 with 280w. AMD recommends a 400w psu btw. You have to remember that with time psu's lose power capacity.

With an i5-3330 and 7750, he'll be lucky to break 200W in total system power consumption at max load, which is just shy of what a weak 280W PSU (70% efficient) should be able to output. An i7-3960X+7750 maxes out at 216W according to AT, so he should be fine:
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post #28 of 33 Old 03-02-2013, 12:16 PM
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I bought the same machine. It was cheap and in addition i got another $75 off on special Promo. Not bad for a 8gb RAM 1TB HD machine with Core i5. when looking to replace the powersupply, i came across this thread. in short, i'm seriously confused. it seems like one should be able to remove the PSU. why do you think its fused to the case?

1. were you able to swap out the power supply? I would ideally like to have 650W PSU. any recommendation?
2. what graphic card were you able to install. i'm not a techy, but id like to be able to install dual monitors. what would work on this Lenovo machine?

let me know your expert opinions.
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post #29 of 33 Old 03-02-2013, 04:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mxm104 View Post

I bought the same machine. It was cheap and in addition i got another $75 off on special Promo. Not bad for a 8gb RAM 1TB HD machine with Core i5. when looking to replace the powersupply, i came across this thread. in short, i'm seriously confused. it seems like one should be able to remove the PSU. why do you think its fused to the case?

1. were you able to swap out the power supply? I would ideally like to have 650W PSU. any recommendation?
2. what graphic card were you able to install. i'm not a techy, but id like to be able to install dual monitors. what would work on this Lenovo machine?

let me know your expert opinions.


When I looked at the power supply, it appeared to me that getting it out of there would require WAY more effort than it would be worth. To me, it seemed like the thing was practically fused to the case somehow, and getting the thing out of there would require a blow torch. (just kidding). I'm not the most technically savvy guy anyways, so I don't think I'm going to mess with it.


I was looking at getting a 7750 low profile, but haven't got around to getting one. If I see it on a really good deal I'd probably snag it, but haven't seen any amazing deals for it or anything. Right now, I'm just using the built-in Intel Graphics, and it's actually relatively decent. However, I must say that all the games that I'm playing on this particular PC are older games from 2008 and 2009 that ended up in my backlog for one reason or another. Most of these games are not very demanding of the hardware. My primary PC is in my man-cave, and this is a living room PC that the family uses for various things, so I'm fine with just using the built in Intel Graphics for now.

However, if I was looking to do something, I think what I would do is just get another case and a PSU. You can get cases for like 40 bucks, so I'd rather spend the $40 on a case, then pulling out all my hair trying to figure out how the heck to get that PSU out of there, and fit another PSU in there.
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post #30 of 33 Old 06-14-2013, 10:26 PM
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Please take a closeup picture of the back of the PC at the power supply. That thing is a generic PS. I see the screws in other pictures for that model PC. Sorry but I think your mistaken. I can see the 4 screws in the picture that Macks posted. Sort of look like torx head screws.

http://slickdeals.net/forums/showpost.php?p=59922492&postcount=11
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