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post #121 of 145 Old 06-01-2013, 10:04 PM
 
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"is going from 3.4 GHz to 4.1 GHz worth running that much hotter? Will I see any real-world gaming improvements? If this was your gaming rig, would you keep it nice and cool at stock, or push it hot to get some extra performance?"

I run stock, unless I feel like fiddling around. In example, I pushed my 4.0ghz FX-8350 to 4.6ghz for a minute just to see how high it would go and still be stable. Since I already find it pretty easy to hold 60fps on every game that I've played recently, another 15% in CPU doesn't do anything to help when the CPU is only being used at 30-60% of it's capacity in the first place. If I recall, you are running a pair of GTX 670s instead of my single GTX 660. In that case you can push the CPU a little harder with things like TressFX in Tomb Raider (yes, it's mostly shader based but still has a hefty CPU requirement as well). Are you already hitting a pretty solid 60fps, or trying to drive a 120hz monitor? More CPU giving you a the bandwidth to run a solid 85fps isn't any better than a solid 80fps when you are only displaying 60 of those frames. smile.gif

I'd rather my system be as quiet as possible. Less heat production means I can run my fans slower. That improves my experience more that knowing that I'm running 600mhz over stock with little to no perceivable benefit.
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post #122 of 145 Old 06-01-2013, 10:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by darklordjames View Post

Are you already hitting a pretty solid 60fps, or trying to drive a 120hz monitor? More CPU giving you a the bandwidth to run a solid 85fps isn't any better than a solid 80fps when you are only displaying 60 of those frames. smile.gif

Thanks, the voice of reason is what I needed to hear. smile.gif

I'm only doing 1080p @ 60fps with dual 670s, I'm already in overkill-land for most games GPU-wise. Cranking the CPU up isn't really going to do anything with most of the current gen games, though I haven't run Crysis 3 yet. tongue.gif

With the coming summer months, the cave runs a little warm, so I think I agree - keeping the temp down and fans slower is the wise decision.

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post #123 of 145 Old 06-02-2013, 05:26 AM
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So... Overclocking.

I'm still not sure I want to enter this realm, but wanted to give it a try anyway. I could use some advice please.

My CPU is an Intel i5 3570k Ivy Bridge. I OCed it using Gigabyte's bundled software EasyTune6, and testing using Real Temp GT 3.70 with Prime 95 for maximum CPU load.

Here's what I got at the default 3.40 GHz speed:



I like those results - the TJMax never falls under 41 degrees, so it stays nice and cool even when pushing the CPU to the max.

===

Then I set ET6's "Quick Boost" to level 1, which is 4.08 GHz, and here's the results:



It still runs stable and didn't have any problems, but TJMax around 20 degrees at full load looks pretty hot to me. eek.gif

So my question to overclockers - is going from 3.4 GHz to 4.1 GHz worth running that much hotter? Will I see any real-world gaming improvements? If this was your gaming rig, would you keep it nice and cool at stock, or push it hot to get some extra performance?

Thanks in advance for any comments or insights.

Unlike Sandy Bridge, the heat goes up pretty quickly on Ivy Bridge when you overclock, especially if you raise the voltage. I'm not sure how quick boost works, I do my overclocking through the bios itself. It may be applying a voltage boost that you may not necessarily need to hit that speed. 80C is pretty hot, especially for that speed....but the chip can handle it.

Keep in mind that Prime95 is a stress test....it's going to hit your CPU a lot harder than games. Try running a game that's relatively heavy on the CPU for a while, such as Crysis 2/3, and see what your results are, I suspect it wont be as dramatic.
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post #124 of 145 Old 06-02-2013, 05:52 AM
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If it makes you feel any better, I just ran Prime95 on my Ivy Bridge i5 running at 4.0, and it hovered at 85-86C.

Just ran crysis 3 for a while, never topped 80.

Neither had even the hint of instability....it'll be fine.
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post #125 of 145 Old 06-02-2013, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

Thanks, the voice of reason is what I needed to hear. smile.gif

I'm only doing 1080p @ 60fps with dual 670s, I'm already in overkill-land for most games GPU-wise. Cranking the CPU up isn't really going to do anything with most of the current gen games, though I haven't run Crysis 3 yet. tongue.gif

With the coming summer months, the cave runs a little warm, so I think I agree - keeping the temp down and fans slower is the wise decision.

I overclock specifically for games that I can't quite max out. I only set the OC's up when I play those kind of games. I use the BIOS and and set my 2500K at 4.5GHz and I have a profile set up on Afterburner for my GPU OC. If you want any tips, I can help you OC in your BIOS. I have the same board.
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post #126 of 145 Old 06-02-2013, 08:35 AM - Thread Starter
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I overclock specifically for games that I can't quite max out. I only set the OC's up when I play those kind of games. I use the BIOS and and set my 2500K at 4.5GHz and I have a profile set up on Afterburner for my GPU OC. If you want any tips, I can help you OC in your BIOS. I have the same board.

Thanks Jim - I'm curious what kind of performance increase you get when you game OCed? Also, how are you cooling your 2500k, which I understand overclocks nicer than 3570k?

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post #127 of 145 Old 06-02-2013, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

Thanks Jim - I'm curious what kind of performance increase you get when you game OCed? Also, how are you cooling your 2500k, which I understand overclocks nicer than 3570k?
Performance all depends on whether a game is CPU bound or GPU bound. Most are GPU bound, but the OC can make a big difference in CPU bound games.

I use a 212 EVO. AT 4.5GHz, I only hit 66C after 30 minutes of Prime95.
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post #128 of 145 Old 06-02-2013, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by jmwatkins View Post

Performance all depends on whether a game is CPU bound or GPU bound. Most are GPU bound, but the OC can make a big difference in CPU bound games.

I use a 212 EVO. AT 4.5GHz, I only hit 66C after 30 minutes of Prime95.

Yep. Although in a generally GPU bound game, individual frames can be CPU bound, so it always helps.

I have a feeling the quick boost program is definitely applying a voltage increase to your CPU. Higher voltages provide additional overclocking headroom, at the cost of much greater heat output and power consumption, especially on Ivy Bridge. You should definitely OC in the BIOS so you're in complete control before you give up on it. It's basically free performance, and you have a decent cooler - you should definitely do it.

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post #129 of 145 Old 06-02-2013, 10:08 AM
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I have a feeling the quick boost program is definitely applying a voltage increase to your CPU. Higher voltages provide additional overclocking headroom, at the cost of much greater heat output and power consumption, especially on Ivy Bridge. You should definitely OC in the BIOS so you're in complete control before you give up on it. It's basically free performance, and you have a decent cooler - you should definitely do it.
+1. I'm sure Easy Tune cranks the voltage really high.
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post #130 of 145 Old 06-02-2013, 10:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, I'm curious to give BIOS CPU tweaking a shot to see if I can unlock a little more performance while maintaining satisfying temps.

However, Googling this info is a mess. Is there a good place to get simple to understand info as a starting point?

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post #131 of 145 Old 06-02-2013, 12:16 PM
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I use Prime95, CPUID HWMonitor, Core Temp and CPU-Z. This should at least get you started:

1. Go into 3D Bios and click on the CPU/RAM part on the board (System Tuning). On the Frequency tab, adjust your CPU Clock Ratio. Pick a safe target that you had in mind. I would say between 40 and 44 (4.0GHGz and 4.4GHz), but I'm not sure what is common for 3570K's with air coolers. Set it and boot up.
2. Open CPUID and run Prime95 for a few minutes. Keep an eye on your temps, but what you're mostly looking for is what CPUID says is you're CPU VCORE Max. At this point, your VCORE is set to Auto in the Bios. Write this voltage down.
3. Back in the BIOS, click System Tuning once again, but this time click the Voltage tab and set the CPU Vcore. Set the Vcore to 0.010 V less that what your Max was in CPU ID. Boot up.
4. Open up CPUID (to monitor temps and vcore), CPU-Z (to monitor frequency and vcore), and Core Temp (this is just personal preference, but I use it to watch my Core load. Prime95 should boost all cores to 100%. If any of them go to 0%, that means a core crashed because your Vcore voltage is too low).
5. Run Prime95 for 30 minutes. If it passes all the tests without any cores crashing, go back into the BIOS and drop your vcore another 0.005 - 0.010 V. Keep an eye on your temps, but the lower your voltage goes, the lower your temps should be.
6. Repeat step 5 until your CPU is unstable (core crash), then turn your voltage back up a bit. Run Prime 95 for a few hours (some say 12 hours) and if it passes without crashing, then Congrats, you found the lowest voltage for running that particular speed. If it crashes, turn up the voltage a bit and repeat.

For now, this is basically your goal - Find the lowest possible voltage to maintain the speed you chose to run to keep the temps as low as possible.

Overclocking can get way more complex than this, but I believe this is a good way to get your feet wet.

Some one can chime in if I'm missing something.
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post #132 of 145 Old 06-02-2013, 01:07 PM
 
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7. While running Prime 95 in the background, load up a looping GPU benchmark like Catzilla or something. The point is to put a load on the GPU so that it also produces heat that it dumps in to your system. A CPU overclock that you think is stable is suddenly very useless when it crashes because another heat source is added to the mix.
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post #133 of 145 Old 09-17-2013, 07:17 AM - Thread Starter
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So... minor update - I had a very faint "buzz" or whine in my system after it's been on for a while. It sounds like a hard drive accessing, but I hear it mostly when I'm surfing and opening webpages when all is quiet. I thought it might be the SSD, but after searching around, I found similar complaints and they all turned out to be the power supply. I checked, and sure enough the buzz was coming from the PS.

It wasn't bad, but a tad annoying when the room is quiet. So I decided to replace the 2007 Seasonic M12 700 watt with a new Seasonic M12ii 750 watt Bronze, but I'm very unhappy with the results. The buzz is gone, but the fan is louder at idle, and under stress is extremely loud. So I went from a mild occasional annoyance to constant frustration. mad.gif

I think I'm going to ship that M12ii back and try a Seasonic X-series 850 watt Gold. This version of power supply has a setting where the fan is off under low load and heat. I don't know if I just got a noisy M12ii, but very disappointing with the results, so I decided to step up to the deluxe version.

Is this a good idea, or am I just chasing my tail?

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post #134 of 145 Old 09-17-2013, 11:20 AM
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Maybe try a different brand. Seasonic isn't the only one out there you know.

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post #135 of 145 Old 09-17-2013, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Maybe try a different brand. Seasonic isn't the only one out there you know.

Good point Yrd - any suggestions for good brands to look at? I have a thing about sticking with a brand, but maybe that's not the best idea in this case.

The reason I'm inclined to stick with Seasonic is they make some other brands' power supplies, like Corsiar. Plus they are usually highly regarded as one of the best power supply manufacturer, so maybe I just got an odd noisy unit?

But if I do get the premium "Gold" level replacement PS and unhappy with it, that's it for that brand.

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post #136 of 145 Old 09-17-2013, 02:50 PM
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I'm using a Corsair right now. Most of the PSU's I've had have been rebranded Seasonics. Except Enermax and OCZ. The OCZ died I think, I don't remember what happened to that one, I just know I took the fan out of it, so it's not functioning anyway smile.gif

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post #137 of 145 Old 12-04-2013, 08:10 PM - Thread Starter
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So, random minor issue happening: in the last couple weeks I've noticed that my computer shuts down a couple seconds after turning it on, before Windows loads. If I hit the power button again, it boots all the way, and runs fine.

Anyone have any theories why a computer will shut down after a couple seconds of pressing the power button, but then boot fine on the next power-on?

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post #138 of 145 Old 12-04-2013, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

So, random minor issue happening: in the last couple weeks I've noticed that my computer shuts down a couple seconds after turning it on, before Windows loads. If I hit the power button again, it boots all the way, and runs fine.

Anyone have any theories why a computer will shut down after a couple seconds of pressing the power button, but then boot fine on the next power-on?

 

The only time I'm used to seeing that happening is when you push an overclock too far. It will fail to make it all the way to the desktop, and then revert to default settings.


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post #139 of 145 Old 12-04-2013, 09:12 PM
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Are you able to see any glaring messages during the POST?

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post #140 of 145 Old 12-04-2013, 09:33 PM - Thread Starter
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It usually powers off before I get the TV on and/or on the PC input. I did notice it one time it seemed to shut off right before the first Win8 screen came on, just before the spinning dots. I'm running Intel RST, so I would guess it's happening right after the RAID drivers load (?) but before Windows loads.

This issue seemed to start around the time I upgraded to Win8.1, but I figure that's just a coincidence. It only does it when the computer has been off for a while (i.e. cold)* My current theories are 1) power supply, 2) CPU cooling fan not spinning (emergency shutdown), 3) failing SSD or 4) something with Windows.

Maybe I'll poke around my BIOS, but nothing's really changed expect Win8.1.

*EDIT: forget about the "cold" thing, it just did it again. In fact, it does it almost every time I power off the computer. The last screen I saw was the Windows logo on the black screen just before the spinning dots - BAM, shutdown. Then, like clockwork, I hit the power button again and it boots to Windows fine. It's like every other attempt it shuts down.

EDIT EDIT: it's not every other startup, but it's pretty common.

confused.gif

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post #141 of 145 Old 12-04-2013, 09:49 PM
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Well, I can't offer any solid solutions. This is the game with PCs. You have to find it yourself. Try to remove all those things from the equation and narrow it down.

You can determine the CPU fan easily, just take off a side of your case.

If you have the resources, try and clone your SSD onto another drive and see if it's the culprit. My OCZ when I first got it, I put win7 on it and it would shut down after a while of the PC running idle. I don't remember now the exact circumstances, but I sent it to OCZ and they could never reproduce the issue. I got it back and used it to play games off, for a bit, then put win8 on it when that came out. I haven't had the issue since, but I'm rarely using win8. I still mainly use win7 from my intel SSD. Which I need to update because this drive is only sata 2.

Also try to run your gear at default speeds.

PSU will be a pain, at least I know mine would. It's embedded in there deep with some winding maze of wires and zip ties. I would not look forward to replacing that.
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post #142 of 145 Old 12-05-2013, 11:43 AM
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I've had that happen to me in the past with other builds. But not the current one. With an older Asus 7900/NVidia Celeron build it was a CPU fan default and CPU failure. In the system before my current one it was 2 failing memory sticks. I'd say start there with your debugging before looking at something like PSU failure or bad cables. Even though I would check out my cable routing to insure that one isn't contacting something very hot.
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post #143 of 145 Old 12-27-2013, 05:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

So... minor update - I had a very faint "buzz" or whine in my system after it's been on for a while. It sounds like a hard drive accessing, but I hear it mostly when I'm surfing and opening webpages when all is quiet. I thought it might be the SSD, but after searching around, I found similar complaints and they all turned out to be the power supply. I checked, and sure enough the buzz was coming from the PS.

It wasn't bad, but a tad annoying when the room is quiet. So I decided to replace the 2007 Seasonic M12 700 watt with a new Seasonic M12ii 750 watt Bronze, but I'm very unhappy with the results. The buzz is gone, but the fan is louder at idle, and under stress is extremely loud. So I went from a mild occasional annoyance to constant frustration. mad.gif

I think I'm going to ship that M12ii back and try a Seasonic X-series 850 watt Gold. This version of power supply has a setting where the fan is off under low load and heat. I don't know if I just got a noisy M12ii, but very disappointing with the results, so I decided to step up to the deluxe version.

Is this a good idea, or am I just chasing my tail?

Quick update - I got the Seasonic 850w GOLD for Christmas, and I'm very happy with it. It's noise level at worst matches the Hyper EVO, 670s SLIed, and case fans, and probably is quieter, meaning I can't hear it. Seasonic is back in my good graces, after the disappointment of the 750w Bronze. I don't know if it's the extra wattage or the hybrid fan (off under low load), but in addition to the fan being quiet, the distracting buzz mentioned above is gone, and my PC seems running smoothly.
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Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

So, random minor issue happening: in the last couple weeks I've noticed that my computer shuts down a couple seconds after turning it on, before Windows loads. If I hit the power button again, it boots all the way, and runs fine.

Anyone have any theories why a computer will shut down after a couple seconds of pressing the power button, but then boot fine on the next power-on?

This issue started getting worse - my PC was hanging when it hit the desktop, all I could do was move the mouse but couldn't click on anything for a long time - sometimes up the 5 minutes! Then when the computer "caught up", all the things I was trying to click on suddenly start opening and launching. I tried disabling Stardock's Fences, but it didn't help. There must have been something trying to load during Win8 startup?

But I solved this issue by a Win8 re-install. I guess it was time to do that, although I was hoping Windows had moved past the "fresh install every x months". rolleyes.gif

But, all in all, the new PS and Windows re-install makes for a nice, quiet, happy PC.

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post #144 of 145 Old 12-27-2013, 06:11 PM
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Nice, glad to hear it. You're one of about 3 people I know that get the "Windows takes forever to start up" issue after months of use, and I can never figure out how it happens. My media comp (my old main) has been on the same install of Win 8 since it's launch and hasn't gotten to this issue yet.

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post #145 of 145 Old 12-31-2013, 12:16 AM
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Nice, glad to hear it. You're one of about 3 people I know that get the "Windows takes forever to start up" issue after months of use, and I can never figure out how it happens. My media comp (my old main) has been on the same install of Win 8 since it's launch and hasn't gotten to this issue yet.

Same here. Mine has been really good. The only thing I've seen that was annoying was it decided to give some external drives different letters out of the blue one day.
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