HTPC Gaming/Media Center - Calibration Issues - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 8 Old 01-25-2013, 06:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello, I have been watching this forums for quite a while but only now I needed to open a post. I have searched the internet for the past 2 months looking for a solution for my issue but none of them fixed it completely.

Long story short.

I had a Philips HDTV that went to repair after a dead pixel appeared. Meanwhile I decided that the TV was not helping me reaching the desired picture quality and ended up buying a new one.

The new TV is a Samsung Smart TV Series 6300 40inches. However the issues continue.

I want to use my main pc connected to the TV. It will be used for media player and gaming. The PC is using a Nvidia GTX 680 GPU and connected to the the TV by HDMI and monitor by DVI. I have three user accounts on the pc, Normal Dektop usage using monitor, Steam and XBMC.

The setup is working great. The HTPC user account open XBMC as the shell and switches from the monitor to the TV automatically. The Steam user account opens Big Picture mode automatically as shell and switches to the tv automatically to.

So, now that you know my setup, lets go straight to the problem.

I used HD709 patterns to calibrate the TV using XBMC. However the picture doesn't seem quite right. It seems too dark in some areas. Also, using the patterns I could only get all the flash bars to work using Limited Range in the video options of Nvidia Control Panel.

Regarding the Gaming calibration, I learned from the internet that I need to calibrate the color range as Full RGB ( calibrating Black as 0 instead of 16). I tried image patterns, calman PC (without colorimeter) and the picture doesnt seem right. Using Calman PC for calibration I end up with some weird light from the edges on black images. Also, it seems that the picture is not showing correct colors.

So, my questions are:

- How to setup NVIDIA control panel for XBMC video?
- How to correctly calibrate the image for XBMC Video? (please tell me where can I find the right patterns/video/software to do this)


Secondly:

- How to setup NVIDIA control panel for pc general usage / gaming?
- How to calibrate the image for normal / gaming usage? (please tell me where can I find the right patterns/video/software to do this)


I would like to thank you in advance for any advice you guys can give me. I am getting desperate and tired of waiting money without getting the image and experience I deserve. Thank you!
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post #2 of 8 Old 01-25-2013, 08:30 AM
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There are separate industry standards for blu-ray and dvd. There is no industry standard display calibration for games.

You are unhappy with how it looks on your TV after calibration?

You are happy with how it looks on your monitor? or just don't care?

I think you have a hdmi issue.

1. Try switching which hdmi input you are using on the tv.

2. Bypass your receiver and see if it is better.

3. There are a lot of thread's about bad picture quality on TV's from video cards. I would check them out if the above 2 don't work.
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post #3 of 8 Old 01-25-2013, 08:39 AM
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How much do you know about LED TVs? Because what you describe as 'weird light from the edges" sounds like edge lit LED bleed through. Not something that can be fixed with settings.

Also have you checked the display forums? There are usually threads dedicated to any TV out there, with calibration settings people have found to work well. Might not be specific for XBMC but it's a place to look.

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post #4 of 8 Old 01-26-2013, 12:30 AM
 
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"How much do you know about LED TVs? Because what you describe as 'weird light from the edges" sounds like edge lit LED bleed through."

This is where my money is. If you put up just a straight black image, do parts of it looks brighter than other areas? Some effect with a pure dark-grey image or pure-white? If the answer is yes, then you are likely seeing one of the crappy side effects of our shift from CFL to LED back-lighting on LCD panels. My 24" Dell LED-backlit LCDs suffer from a similar issue, where there are sporadic hot-spots throughout the image. The three LED monitors are a lot thinner and a lot cheaper than my slightly older CFL version of the same monitor, but the picture quality absolutely took a hit in the process.

They've had several years to get it right, but LED-LCD displays still just look kind of crappy. That's one of the reasons your display is so thin and so cheap. You gave up image quality to get those two other features. smile.gif

Are you still within your return policy? If so you may want to return it, then hang out in our LCD and Plasma sections for a bit and find a different model. Last I checked LED-LCDs with an array of LEDs behind the panel tend to be a bit better about hot-spots, but still not as good as classic CFL-LCD or plasma in that regard.

I still don't understand LED-LCDs as a manufacture choice. Well, as a quality choice I guess. I understand the material-cost and cosmetic reasons. Don't they realize that the phosphors coating the "white" (read: blue) LED will age and shift in color over time?
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post #5 of 8 Old 01-26-2013, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macks View Post

There are separate industry standards for blu-ray and dvd. There is no industry standard display calibration for games.

You are unhappy with how it looks on your TV after calibration?

You are happy with how it looks on your monitor? or just don't care?

I think you have a hdmi issue.

1. Try switching which hdmi input you are using on the tv.

2. Bypass your receiver and see if it is better.

3. There are a lot of thread's about bad picture quality on TV's from video cards. I would check them out if the above 2 don't work.

Thank you for your reply, I know there is no standard in game industry, however there must be a way to make picture quality better. I guess some decent Full RGB calibration would be the closest. Sadly, I am unsure how can I do this.

I have tried multiple HDMI ports and didn't saw any difference. It is connected to the HDMI/DVI port now using a High Speed 1.4 (I know the revision is not really on the cable) HDMI cable.

I have no receiver in the middle. The PC is directly plugged to the TV.

Also, I have checked multiple threads for months and no solution still.

Anyway, thank you for your reply. Really apreciate it.
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post #6 of 8 Old 01-26-2013, 12:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darklordjames View Post

"How much do you know about LED TVs? Because what you describe as 'weird light from the edges" sounds like edge lit LED bleed through."

This is where my money is. If you put up just a straight black image, do parts of it looks brighter than other areas? Some effect with a pure dark-grey image or pure-white? If the answer is yes, then you are likely seeing one of the crappy side effects of our shift from CFL to LED back-lighting on LCD panels. My 24" Dell LED-backlit LCDs suffer from a similar issue, where there are sporadic hot-spots throughout the image. The three LED monitors are a lot thinner and a lot cheaper than my slightly older CFL version of the same monitor, but the picture quality absolutely took a hit in the process.

They've had several years to get it right, but LED-LCD displays still just look kind of crappy. That's one of the reasons your display is so thin and so cheap. You gave up image quality to get those two other features. smile.gif

Are you still within your return policy? If so you may want to return it, then hang out in our LCD and Plasma sections for a bit and find a different model. Last I checked LED-LCDs with an array of LEDs behind the panel tend to be a bit better about hot-spots, but still not as good as classic CFL-LCD or plasma in that regard.

I still don't understand LED-LCDs as a manufacture choice. Well, as a quality choice I guess. I understand the material-cost and cosmetic reasons. Don't they realize that the phosphors coating the "white" (read: blue) LED will age and shift in color over time?

Hello, Thank you for the reply.

I am aware of some of this issues. It is really sad seeing that LED has more issues than CCFL when it was supposed to be "better".

However, the issue at the moment is how to setup Nvidia control panel properly. I have been testing different settings and I think the Video from the PC is now correctly calibrated (at least without any hardware). When calibrated for Video the left edge still bleeds but only on bright images and is not very noticeable. Sometimes is really annoying tho.

The main problem comes when I try to calibrate for Full RGB to use games (I am not sure I am doing it right). When I calibrate for Full RGB, both edges (left and right) show a very bright white circle. This panel can be faulty but I want to believe I am calibrating it wrong. It can also be something that is not configured properly.

So, any ideas how can I calibrate my TV for full RGB to make games look better?

Thank you one more time for the time.
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post #7 of 8 Old 01-26-2013, 02:19 PM
 
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"So, any ideas how can I calibrate my TV for full RGB to make games look better?"

On your display, change the label of the input to "PC". On my year-old Samsung plasma I do that by hitting Source > Tools > Edit Name. Yours may be different. All your color settings will shift in the process, but it should open up 0-255 instead of 16-235. In addition, look at your HDMI Black Level option and flip it to the other option as part of your troubleshooting.

To help calm your backlight bleeding, check out your Backlight option. I'm guessing it default to the max of like 20 or something. Knock it down to 10-15 and see if the bleed lessens. Contrast and Brightness will have to be adjusted to compensate. Ideally, one of Contrast or Brightness will be around 90 with the Backlight cranked down as low as it can be. Contrast of 70 with a higher backlight will probably lead to higher bleed than Contrast 90 with lower backlight. The brighter the backlight, the harder the LCD cells have to work to block light to give you a reasonably dark black. My bedroom LCD as an example has it's backlight at about 1/3 of max, so it will give me good blacks. I hardly ever use TVs during daylight though, so my settings tend to be darker than most would need for day to day use.
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post #8 of 8 Old 01-27-2013, 05:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darklordjames View Post

"So, any ideas how can I calibrate my TV for full RGB to make games look better?"

On your display, change the label of the input to "PC". On my year-old Samsung plasma I do that by hitting Source > Tools > Edit Name. Yours may be different. All your color settings will shift in the process, but it should open up 0-255 instead of 16-235. In addition, look at your HDMI Black Level option and flip it to the other option as part of your troubleshooting.

To help calm your backlight bleeding, check out your Backlight option. I'm guessing it default to the max of like 20 or something. Knock it down to 10-15 and see if the bleed lessens. Contrast and Brightness will have to be adjusted to compensate. Ideally, one of Contrast or Brightness will be around 90 with the Backlight cranked down as low as it can be. Contrast of 70 with a higher backlight will probably lead to higher bleed than Contrast 90 with lower backlight. The brighter the backlight, the harder the LCD cells have to work to block light to give you a reasonably dark black. My bedroom LCD as an example has it's backlight at about 1/3 of max, so it will give me good blacks. I hardly ever use TVs during daylight though, so my settings tend to be darker than most would need for day to day use.

Hello darklordjames, thank you for your reply.

I have already tried PC label on the source. However, it disables the Color and Tint controls and I really need them as the color seems really saturated. Do you have an official explanation of what the PC label on samsung tv's really do?

I have found on the internet that "HDMI Black Level" on samsung TV's control which color range the TV is expecting, being LOW (0-255) and NORMAL (16-235). If this is in fact correct what does the PC label does?

Also, any sugestion of what should I use to calibrate for full rgb? For video (16-235) I use HD709 MP4 patterns and calibrate the black to be 16 and white 235 (generally it will flash until 253 even with low contrast).

Should Full RGB mode be calibrated using static images (so it is not converted to video level)?

Also, the bleeding occurs when the HDMI Black Level is on Normal (supposedly Full RGB range) and I calibrate black as 0. It seems that the TV will still do black at 16 because the black is just a washed out gray. LOW setting seems okay for video but too dark (and maybe clipping) for anything else (gaming, desktop, etc).

Thank you one more time for the time.

PS: The backlight is already at half (10) of the maximum. That is one of the first things I do. Maximum backlight hurts my eyes.
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