Seiki SE50UY04 50" 4K display - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 161 Old 04-19-2013, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
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http://hdguru.com/first-look-at-the-seiki-se50uy04-affordable-ultra-hdtv/

I know this is usually covered in LCD display forums but this panel is so interesting to me I thought we should discuss it here. It's the first of the new 4K low cost panels (you can find it on Tigerdirect for ~$1200 or so). It supports a native 4K Ultra HD resolution (3840 x 2160). So it should make a decent display, only thing is the refresh rates for HDMI 1.4 for Ultra HD is kind of low- 30Hz max. We'll have to wait for HDMI 2.0 for 60Hz at Ultra HD resolutions. Should make a good display for static games like Starcraft, etc, terrible for anything over 30FPS.

Still, this is a good sign for affordable Ultra HD displays in the future.
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post #2 of 161 Old 04-19-2013, 09:48 PM
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Considering the 30Hz limitation I would rather have the Leonidas...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Perfect-Pixel-New-YAMAKASI-LEONIDAS-30-LCD-2560x1600-IPS-PANEL-DVI-D-Monitor-/110948124492?pt=Computer_Monitors&hash=item19d506074c

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post #3 of 161 Old 04-24-2013, 02:15 AM
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post #4 of 161 Old 04-24-2013, 11:12 AM
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If I had a better rig I'd consider one eventually. I record videos at 29.97 so the 30hz limit wouldn't be much of an issue to get some nice 4k video footage of games, but I definitely need a much better rig to even push that res in the first place.

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post #5 of 161 Old 04-24-2013, 03:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marafice Eye View Post

If I had a better rig I'd consider one eventually. I record videos at 29.97 so the 30hz limit wouldn't be much of an issue to get some nice 4k video footage of games, but I definitely need a much better rig to even push that res in the first place.
Two or three Titans could do it. At that res you definitely could use the 6GB framebuffer.

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post #6 of 161 Old 04-25-2013, 08:19 AM
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I just got this TV but am surprised to see that text does not look that sharp at Native 4K. I can test on the monitor and it is showing up as a native 720p screen (perhaps downsampled) in anycase the monitor test shows the model number as SE50IY04 so perhaps something happened with this shipment back to tiger direct waiting to hear..

In anycase here are the results of the test.

Monitor
Model name............... SE50IY04
Manufacturer............. SEK
Plug and Play ID......... SEK0000
Serial number............ 1
Manufacture date......... 2013, ISO week 9
Filter driver............ None
EDID revision............ 1.3
Input signal type........ Digital (DVI)
Color bit depth.......... Undefined
Display type............. RGB color
Screen size.............. 1100 x 620 mm (49.7 in)
Power management......... Standby
Extension blocs.......... 1 (Reserved - 0x00)
DDC/CI................... Not supported

Color characteristics
Default color space...... Non-sRGB
Display gamma............ 2.20
Red chromaticity......... Rx 0.650 - Ry 0.330
Green chromaticity....... Gx 0.290 - Gy 0.610
Blue chromaticity........ Bx 0.150 - By 0.070
White point (default).... Wx 0.272 - Wy 0.275
Additional descriptors... None

Timing characteristics
Horizontal scan range.... 24-60kHz
Vertical scan range...... 50-75Hz
Video bandwidth.......... 110MHz
CVT standard............. Not supported
GTF standard............. Not supported
Additional descriptors... None
Preferred timing......... Yes
Native/preferred timing.. 1280x720p at 60Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1280x720" 74.250 1280 1390 1430 1650 720 725 730 750 +hsync +vsync
Detailed timing #1....... 1440x900p at 60Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1440x900" 106.500 1440 1520 1672 1904 900 903 909 934 -hsync +vsync

Standard timings supported
720 x 400p at 70Hz - IBM VGA
640 x 480p at 60Hz - IBM VGA
640 x 480p at 72Hz - VESA
640 x 480p at 75Hz - VESA
800 x 600p at 60Hz - VESA
800 x 600p at 72Hz - VESA
800 x 600p at 75Hz - VESA
1024 x 768p at 60Hz - VESA
1024 x 768p at 70Hz - VESA
1024 x 768p at 75Hz - VESA
1280 x 960p at 60Hz - VESA STD

Report information
Date generated........... 4/25/2013
Software revision........ 2.60.0.972
Data source.............. Real-time 0x0100
Operating system......... 6.1.7601.2.Service Pack 1

Raw data
00,FF,FF,FF,FF,FF,FF,00,4C,AB,00,00,01,00,00,00,09,17,01,03,81,6E,3E,78,8A,A5,8E,A6,54,4A,9C,26,
12,45,46,AD,CE,00,81,40,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,1D,00,72,51,D0,1E,20,6E,28,
55,00,B9,88,21,00,00,1E,9A,29,A0,D0,51,84,22,30,50,98,36,00,B9,88,21,00,00,1C,00,00,00,FD,00,32,
4B,18,3C,0B,00,0A,20,20,20,20,20,20,00,00,00,FC,00,53,45,35,30,49,59,30,34,0A,20,20,20,20,01,1E
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post #7 of 161 Old 04-25-2013, 08:56 AM
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"Native/preferred timing.. 1280x720p at 60Hz (16:9)" Something wrong's here, this doesn't sound like a 4K display.

What source are you feeding it? How's the black level?


Sub-1080p/60fps is not next-gen.


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post #8 of 161 Old 04-25-2013, 11:56 AM
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I wrote them they say its the video card. I don't see why but in anycase its a Geforce GT 640 which we're not using to play games..
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post #9 of 161 Old 04-25-2013, 12:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Are you using HDMI input? The GT 640 supports the HDMI 1.4a spec, it should work. As you can see in that video, they are clearly getting 3840x2160 output w/ a Geforce 680.

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post #10 of 161 Old 04-28-2013, 10:35 PM
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it may only do 30fps at 4k but it does 120fps+ in 1080p and 720p I've read.

wonder what looks better 1080p 120fps on this thing vs cheap tn 1080p 120hz monitor.

still waiting for the first triple 4k YouTube gaming video.
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post #11 of 161 Old 04-29-2013, 12:21 PM
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Waiting on the 65" and 39" Seiki versions hopefully they'll be able to do 1920x1080 @ 120 Hz and 1280x720 @ 192 Hz like the 50".
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post #12 of 161 Old 04-29-2013, 02:13 PM
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Where is this confirmed that the 50" accepts 1080p@120Hz?

That would make it more of a consideration for PC use if true.

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post #13 of 161 Old 04-29-2013, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

Where is this confirmed that the 50" accepts 1080p@120Hz?

That would make it more of a consideration for PC use if true.

Jason

Agreed. I would like to start a new PC build this fall, and this would instantly become a major consideration for a monitor... as well as the screen for my 360 and w/e the new Xbox will be called. and $1500 ish is easily acceptable.

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post #14 of 161 Old 04-29-2013, 06:41 PM
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is there a model number for the 39" model?

anyone read anything on the 50" being able to do 3d with a pc?

would anyone be able to tell a difference between 120fps and something much higher? a lot of people don't even notice between 60 and 120.
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post #15 of 161 Old 04-30-2013, 01:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uuddlrlrbass View Post

is there a model number for the 39" model?

anyone read anything on the 50" being able to do 3d with a pc?

would anyone be able to tell a difference between 120fps and something much higher? a lot of people don't even notice between 60 and 120.


65" is supposed to come out this summer and 39" in fall / winter. I'm interested in either, for different purposes. The 50" unfortunately doesn't suit my needs.
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post #16 of 161 Old 04-30-2013, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

Where is this confirmed that the 50" accepts 1080p@120Hz?

That would make it more of a consideration for PC use if true.

Jason

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marafice Eye View Post

Agreed. I would like to start a new PC build this fall, and this would instantly become a major consideration for a monitor... as well as the screen for my 360 and w/e the new Xbox will be called. and $1500 ish is easily acceptable.

check out the posts from houkouonchi on hard forum and reduser forum. Some one also mentioned the possibility for custom firmware or a firmware update to achieve 3840x2160 60hz using dual hdmi.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?98027-1299-Seiki-UHDTV-50-quot-SE50UY04-Bought-it-today/page36
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post #17 of 161 Old 04-30-2013, 11:43 AM
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I can't find where I read it now, but someone posted that the Seiki was hackable (linux integrated hardware)
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post #18 of 161 Old 04-30-2013, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uuddlrlrbass View Post

would anyone be able to tell a difference between 120fps and something much higher? a lot of people don't even notice between 60 and 120.
Yes. Google "lightboost" or see see testimonials. (LightBoost is a stroboscopic backlight that has a lot less motion blur than regular 120Hz). There's been an explosion of popularity of LightBoost for 2D usage (not 3D), which is a stroboscopic backlight that brings CRT-quality to LCD's. There's been blogger/media coverage including TFTCentral's LightBoost Article and other media coverage.

Also read the amazon.com reviews for the Asus VG248QE computer monitor. People raving about gaming at native 120Hz.
This is talking true native 120Hz refresh rate, which is vastly superior to common interpolated 120Hz found in most HDTV's.
And people still see improvements beyond 120Hz. Science & References (scroll halfway down).

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post #19 of 161 Old 04-30-2013, 11:44 PM
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Good news!
Confirmed from a user on HardForum:
SEIKI 4K HDTV supports native 1920x1080p at 120Hz!

...

Refresh Rate Multitool shows it's displaying all frames at 120Hz:

So, yes, it is confirmed -- 120Hz works perfectly at 1920x1080.

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post #20 of 161 Old 05-01-2013, 01:53 AM
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Just read a quote from a Amazon review on the Seiki "Even regular DVD's looked better upscaled to 4k instead of 1080p.The image appeared so detailed that it would create the illusion of glasses-free 3D."

I believe he was speaking of upscaling through the oppo. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around how a regular dvd could look good on a 4k display. They look bad enough on a 1080p display.



Edit:

Also just came across this Seiki, High End GPUs Benchmarked at 4K Resolutions

Also read 120 Hz is the maximum supported rate with no frame skipping for this set.

Edit: Groupon has a stupid cheap price for this set, limited time.
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post #21 of 161 Old 05-01-2013, 04:32 AM
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http://www.groupon.com/deals/gg-seiki-50-inch-led-4k-tv?c=all&p=5

Ok, I may have to be in on one of these at that deal (as well as accepting 1080p@120hz).

* 2.5 weeks for delivery though, ouch!

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post #22 of 161 Old 05-01-2013, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uuddlrlrbass View Post

is there a model number for the 39" model?

anyone read anything on the 50" being able to do 3d with a pc?

would anyone be able to tell a difference between 120fps and something much higher? a lot of people don't even notice between 60 and 120.

Yeah, but it'd be a *very* minor difference going above 120.

Without motion blur in the game engine, you can def tell the diff between 60 and 120, although it isn't huge. 60 with a smidgen of motion blur will probably look just as good, and run way faster.

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post #23 of 161 Old 05-01-2013, 02:29 PM
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if this was 60hz i'd have one already!

edit - oh wait. So it can?! So...HDMI 2, hurry up so I can buy
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post #24 of 161 Old 05-01-2013, 08:24 PM - Thread Starter
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If this display is $1200 already it will be that price again.

The 30Hz displays will be a $.10/dozen when the HDMI 2.0 4k 60Hz displays come out.

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post #25 of 161 Old 05-03-2013, 02:15 PM
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I guess I gotta play Devils Advocate here......I get wanting a 4K display for 4K content....but a 4K display for gaming? I'm not seeing the benefit......unless you are sitting right on top of a large 1080p display or projector, games will look sharper/harsher at a higher native rez, but noting else will really change, except the amount of horsepower you'll have to throw at it to run it. Less jaggies perhaps......but until textures, models, other assets are raised up to make good use of all the extra pixels.....dunno if I'd jump yet. Oh I totally get WANTING to jump...don't get me wrong wink.gif

This will come in very handy for people who want to sit right on top of their displays......but how 4K transforms our experience/enjoyment while watching content, that will remain to be seen I think.......usually as the resolutions increase you have to go larger in the display to really feel the impact of the added clarity....if people don't want to go much bigger than 50 or 55" then you'll have the same argument as we had with 720p displays a few years back..."how big a set and how far away are you from it? Oh, don't bother just get a 720p set then you wont see the difference". I like the idea of a 4K projector....at 720p on a 110" screen the pixels are visable from a few feet away, a 1080p set is better but you can still make them out. a 4K projector would probably test the limits of human eyesight to notice any perceived advantage in visuals.

Having said that....can it run Crysis?
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post #26 of 161 Old 05-03-2013, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadRusch View Post

I guess I gotta play Devils Advocate here......I get wanting a 4K display for 4K content....but a 4K display for gaming? I'm not seeing the benefit......unless you are sitting right on top of a large 1080p display or projector, games will look sharper/harsher at a higher native rez, but noting else will really change, except the amount of horsepower you'll have to throw at it to run it. Less jaggies perhaps......but until textures, models, other assets are raised up to make good use of all the extra pixels.....dunno if I'd jump yet. Oh I totally get WANTING to jump...don't get me wrong wink.gif

This will come in very handy for people who want to sit right on top of their displays......but how 4K transforms our experience/enjoyment while watching content, that will remain to be seen I think.......usually as the resolutions increase you have to go larger in the display to really feel the impact of the added clarity....if people don't want to go much bigger than 50 or 55" then you'll have the same argument as we had with 720p displays a few years back..."how big a set and how far away are you from it? Oh, don't bother just get a 720p set then you wont see the difference". I like the idea of a 4K projector....at 720p on a 110" screen the pixels are visable from a few feet away, a 1080p set is better but you can still make them out. a 4K projector would probably test the limits of human eyesight to notice any perceived advantage in visuals.

Having said that....can it run Crysis?
wink.gif

That's the joys of modding, have you seen the 4K/8K texture packs made for Skyrim? ENBs that up texture quality? Better models for games that are already out? Base games sure, no real benefit, but the modding communities make the benefit :P

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post #27 of 161 Old 05-03-2013, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadRusch View Post

I guess I gotta play Devils Advocate here......I get wanting a 4K display for 4K content....but a 4K display for gaming? I'm not seeing the benefit......unless you are sitting right on top of a large 1080p display or projector, games will look sharper/harsher at a higher native rez, but noting else will really change, except the amount of horsepower you'll have to throw at it to run it. Less jaggies perhaps......but until textures, models, other assets are raised up to make good use of all the extra pixels.....dunno if I'd jump yet. Oh I totally get WANTING to jump...don't get me wrong wink.gif

This will come in very handy for people who want to sit right on top of their displays......but how 4K transforms our experience/enjoyment while watching content, that will remain to be seen I think.......usually as the resolutions increase you have to go larger in the display to really feel the impact of the added clarity....if people don't want to go much bigger than 50 or 55" then you'll have the same argument as we had with 720p displays a few years back..."how big a set and how far away are you from it? Oh, don't bother just get a 720p set then you wont see the difference". I like the idea of a 4K projector....at 720p on a 110" screen the pixels are visable from a few feet away, a 1080p set is better but you can still make them out. a 4K projector would probably test the limits of human eyesight to notice any perceived advantage in visuals.

Having said that....can it run Crysis?
wink.gif

I actually think 4k would help a lot with gaming. MSAA doesnt work so well with modern engines, and doesnt do anything for transparencies...at 4K you'd see a lot less pixel crawling, even from a normal viewing distance. Granted, you'd get basically the same effect from supersampling AA, rendering internally at 4k and downsampling to 1080p.....but I havent seen a game or video card driver feature that in years. Texture resolution doesnt really matter unless youre right on top of them, with the extra pixels, distant textures will look much sharper. Shaders will take advantage of every pixel they can, foilage would be vastly improved (think of the grass fields in crysis 3). Particle effects would be much better defined. I think it has a lot more to offer for games than movies, which don't suffer from aliasing to begin with. Even at 1080p, games still have a ton of pixel crawling.

Edit: Actually, looks like you can force supersampling in the nvidia drivers:

http://www.citybuildergames.com/index.php?action=printpage;topic=2915.0

Who needs 4k?

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post #28 of 161 Old 05-03-2013, 03:07 PM
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The 4K aspect is nice but I am honestly more interested in the fact that it is a large display that accepts 1080p@120hz and displays it as it should.

120hz is ultra smooth and if you have not seen it then it's difficult to appreciate.

Jason
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post #29 of 161 Old 05-03-2013, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

The 4K aspect is nice but I am honestly more interested in the fact that it is a large display that accepts 1080p@120hz and displays it as it should.

120hz is ultra smooth and if you have not seen it then it's difficult to appreciate.
+1 -- especially LightBoost 120Hz.

Regular sample-and-hold LCD goes into a low-def blurry mess if you're in constant motion. Even 4K is still VHS-quality blurry motion if you're in constant motion (e.g. first person shooter games) because of the poor motion resolution of sample-and-hold LCD. That's why some 2560x1440p IPS monitor users switched to 1920x1080p TN lightboost (a stroboscopic backlight; trading off color quality and resolution, for 12x better motion resolution). Everything stays crystal-clear high-definition even during ultra high speed motion (assuming 120fps@120Hz).

60 Hz -- baseline
120Hz LCD -- 50% less motion blur than 60 Hz (2x shorter motion blur trail)
120Hz LightBoost(100%) -- 85% less motion blur than 60 Hz (7x shorter motion blur trail)
120Hz LightBoost(10%) -- 92% less motion blur than 60 Hz (12x shorter motion blur trail)

We need to see more displays that utilize video-game-friendly low-input-lag stroboscopic backlights (which can look superior to interpolation) -- TFTCentral found that LightBoost outperformed all scanning backlights they had ever tested. It is a video-game-friendly motion blur elimination technique with a low input lag penalty. We need to see this technology in more home theater HDTV's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Yeah, but it'd be a *very* minor difference going above 120.
Without motion blur in the game engine, you can def tell the diff between 60 and 120, although it isn't huge. 60 with a smidgen of motion blur will probably look just as good, and run way faster.
Some of us are very motion blur sensitive during games. The difference between 60->120Hz is not big for people like me, but the difference between 120Hz->120Hz(LightBoost) is much bigger when you're running a powerful graphics card like a Geforce Titan able to run a significant number of games at 120fps@120Hz.

At LightBoost (set to OSD 10%), the stroboscopic flash per refresh is 1/700th of a second, one CRT-style flicker per refresh, the amount of motion blur on a LightBoost LCD is the same as a 700fps@700Hz sample-and-hold LCD -- the blur trail during fast motion is correspondingly 12x shorter for the same-speed motion than than a 60 Hz LCD. e.g. Where there was 12 pixels of motion blur, there's only 1 pixel of motion blur). The order of magnitude improvement is massively larger than the 2x improvement from 60Hz sample-and-hold into 120Hz sample-and-hold.

For a long time, 60fps@60Hz CRT has less motion blur than 120fps@120Hz LCD. The difference between 60Hz-vs-120Hz on an LCD haven't been nearly as dramatic as the difference between LCD versus CRT. Thankfully, that problem is being solved with stroboscopic backlights that successfully bypass pixel persistence as the motion blur limiting factor (see high speed video).

So as you can see, "Hz" is unfortunately not everything -- as many of us know CRT 60fps@60Hz has less motion blur than LCD 120fps@120Hz -- and the cause isn't pixel persistence. (It's caused by the sample-and-hold effect)

Thanks,
Mark Rejhon

www.BlurBusters.com

BlurBusters Blog -- Eliminating Motion Blur by 90%+ on LCD for games and computers

Rooting for upcoming low-persistence rolling-scan OLEDs too!

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post #30 of 161 Old 05-03-2013, 03:47 PM
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Isn't lightboost just black frame insertion and a strobing backlight though? It's great, I use it on my SXRD HDTV....or is this genuinely something new?

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