Trying to set 5.1 upmixing to 7.1 with PLIIx --- which game can I use to test? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 12 Old 06-20-2013, 09:18 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
WeApOn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 562
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I would like to make sure my 7.1 speakers are working properly in Windows. I have tested with Hitman: Absolution and Metro: Last Light and both of them output in 7 channels, but they must support 7.1 natively as even when I disable EXTD Surround on my Yammy, I still hear them.

What I'm looking to do is make sure that games in 5.1 will properly upmix to 7.1, with EXTD Surround & PLIIx

Can anyone tell me a game that is definitely only in 5.1? That way I can test with PLIIx on and off. I should get either 5 of 7 channel output depending on how it's set.

Thanks!
WeApOn is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 12 Old 06-20-2013, 11:51 AM
Advanced Member
 
macks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 715
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 31
If you set your speakers in Windows to 7.1 then all sound should be bumped up to 7.1 by windows. Some programs override this but I don't believe any games will.
macks is offline  
post #3 of 12 Old 06-20-2013, 12:03 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
WeApOn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 562
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by macks View Post

If you set your speakers in Windows to 7.1 then all sound should be bumped up to 7.1 by windows. Some programs override this but I don't believe any games will.

By 'override', do you mean that some programs will limit it to 5.1?

So essentially my receiver will not ever need to engage PLIIx? That would make sense as to why turning it on or off didn't make any difference.

How does Windows handle the extra sound? Does it have a similar type of PLIIx algorithm built in?
WeApOn is offline  
post #4 of 12 Old 06-20-2013, 05:00 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
WeApOn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 562
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
bump
WeApOn is offline  
post #5 of 12 Old 06-20-2013, 07:04 PM
Advanced Member
 
macks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 715
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 31
You should really post this in the normal htpc section. You will get more attention.
macks is offline  
post #6 of 12 Old 06-21-2013, 06:20 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
WeApOn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 562
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by macks View Post

You should really post this in the normal htpc section. You will get more attention.

This one? http://www.avsforum.com/f/94/home-theater-gaming

Sorry, there are so many sub-forums. Made a post there hoping I would get some attention.
WeApOn is offline  
post #7 of 12 Old 06-21-2013, 07:01 AM
Advanced Member
 
macks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 715
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Forums -> Video Components -> Home Theater Computers

I can't promise anyone there will know how Windows pushes audio to all speakers.
macks is offline  
post #8 of 12 Old 06-21-2013, 05:33 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
WeApOn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 562
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Just found one example that proves my initial worry to be true --- If I have my computer speakers set to 7.1, certain applications will not be in 7.1, and PLIIx will not work in upmixing the 5.1 to 7.1

EIther due to the program sending silent data to the two extra channels, or some other reason... The only fix is to change my PC settings to 5.1 and keep PLIIx, then it works.

I tested with a game that output 5 channels when I told Windows I had 7. From what it seems, it was sending silent data to the other two channels, so my PLIIx would never kick in.

My original intention was to avoid having to switch between telling Windows that I have 7 speakers(when I use native 7.1 content) or that I have 5 speakers(when the above example happens, causing two silent channels).

Unless anyone else has an idea, I think the only solution will be to keep Windows set at 5.1 and apply PLIIx. The downside of this will be that true 7.1 content will end up being 5.1 --> PLIIx upmixed to 7.1. I'm not sure how negative this is, as I don't know the technical facts behind the differences.

Unfortunately it doesn't seem like I have any other options, as one program to another this will differ, but the only way to maintain 7 channel output ALL THE TIME is to force 5.1 and PLIIx.

Can anyone shed some light on the detrimental effects of using 5.1 & PLIIx for true 7.1 content, versus using native 7.1?
WeApOn is offline  
post #9 of 12 Old 06-24-2013, 12:30 AM
 
darklordjames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 7,909
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 93
Just leave Windows set to 7.1. Your setup will just leave two of the speakers unused in the cases of incoming 5.1 PCM, which is the most correct way to handle it. Forcing 5.1 all of the time just results in things being wrong more often than not. Running 7.1 out of Windows means the audio is always correct, it just doesn't use some speakers sometimes.

What you are advocating is exactly like forcing a PS3 to run stereo all the time, just because Hulu wraps the 2.0 source inside of an additional 3.1 channels of empty air.
darklordjames is offline  
post #10 of 12 Old 06-24-2013, 06:15 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
WeApOn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 562
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by darklordjames View Post

Just leave Windows set to 7.1. Your setup will just leave two of the speakers unused in the cases of incoming 5.1 PCM, which is the most correct way to handle it. Forcing 5.1 all of the time just results in things being wrong more often than not. Running 7.1 out of Windows means the audio is always correct, it just doesn't use some speakers sometimes.

What you are advocating is exactly like forcing a PS3 to run stereo all the time, just because Hulu wraps the 2.0 source inside of an additional 3.1 channels of empty air.

I can certainly appreciate and understand this theory. However I might personally prefer the extra channels even when they're not necessary. For the games I have tested with, the sound was far more enveloping and immersive. I will certainly consider this idea however depending on how things sound in the future. I would hate to waste the use of those extra two channels if most content would normally block those channels.
WeApOn is offline  
post #11 of 12 Old 06-27-2013, 08:35 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Osirus23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,220
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 180
You have two options: Set Windows to 5.1 or 7.1

5.1 - Your receiver using PLIIx will add in the extra 2 channels to the best of its ability, PC will only output 5 discrete channels so native 7-channel content will not be fully utilized

7.1 - Your PC will output 7 channels to your system and you will have 7 discrete channels of playback. Content that only supports 5 channels will leave you without sound on 2 speakers.

Really your best bet is to set it to 7.1 and just switch it to 5.1 for content you know to be 5 channel. I have a feeling most games will be just fine outputting 7.1. I really don't know of a 'best of both worlds' option for you.
Osirus23 is offline  
post #12 of 12 Old 06-27-2013, 08:47 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
WeApOn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 562
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osirus23 View Post

You have two options: Set Windows to 5.1 or 7.1

5.1 - Your receiver using PLIIx will add in the extra 2 channels to the best of its ability, PC will only output 5 discrete channels so native 7-channel content will not be fully utilized

7.1 - Your PC will output 7 channels to your system and you will have 7 discrete channels of playback. Content that only supports 5 channels will leave you without sound on 2 speakers.

Really your best bet is to set it to 7.1 and just switch it to 5.1 for content you know to be 5 channel. I have a feeling most games will be just fine outputting 7.1. I really don't know of a 'best of both worlds' option for you.

I found that there wasn't as many native 7.1 games out there. 5.1 with PLIIx seemed to almost always guarantee that I would get 7 speaker output. I haven't heard too many opinions on 5.1 with PLIIx versus native 7.1, but from what I heard, native 7.1 isn't a major difference versus 5.1 upmixing to 7.1 via PLIIx.

For me the best situation is outputting on 7 speakers all the time -- that's the most immersive. To do that I will have to keep 5.1 enabled in Windows and PLIIx on my receiver -- I happy with that for now. Unless I hear that native 7.1 will sound way better than 5.1 upmixed, I am happy this way. smile.gif
WeApOn is offline  
Reply HTPC Gaming

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off