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post #361 of 428 Old 01-07-2014, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

Polygon has an interesting article re: the confusion with the Steam Machines.

Pull-out quote: "Who buys new hardware or installs software that does less than the systems you already own?" Valve hasn't clarified this. I'm assuming it's not us PC builders they are after - Steam Machines are for people who want a reliable, easy to use gaming PC in the living room that they don't need to build and maintain, and don't need Windows. But other than an interesting variety of cheaper games, it seems we are failing to understand why anyone would invest in one of these over a game console.

If Valve is taking aim at Microsoft (Windows), I hope they have something up their sleeve beyond what's been presented so far.

My interest is turning into skepticism.

I think that article is a fair assessment. The final paragraph is exactly right:
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Valve’s moves seem to have lit a match under the collective butt of a few hardware manufacturers when it comes to experimenting with form factors and pricing, and that’s a good thing, but right now the best thing you can with a Steam Machine is install Windows.

It reminds me of how netbooks came with Linux and sucked, came with windows and still sucked, and then chromeOS (a custom Linux build) made them awesome. But that took a few years, as will this.
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post #362 of 428 Old 01-07-2014, 01:25 PM
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post #363 of 428 Old 01-08-2014, 09:46 AM
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I believe there is a lot of slack and play in the Steam initiative right now. It's growth will be slow and methodical at first. Because as more people ask...What is it? The answers are incoherent at the moment. It's certainly a big ??? for me right now. But a few haymaker initiatives could launch them and Valve into the stratosphere in 2015 if they play their hand right. Example are:

  1. Tight integration with Android and Mobile gaming devices
  2. Tight integration with Oculus Rift. And Oculus Rift becomes a phenomenon
  3. A couple of blockbuster strategic alliances with Sony and Nintendo. Meaning acquiring exclusive on-line DD only retail access to both PS 3 and Wii/U libraries for PC gaming (only).Valve would develop the required emulators to play the games on SteamOS PCs. And allow back door access to the same libraries to dedicated Nintendo and PS 4 users through the same emulators (including some PC exclusives). That would give PS and Nintendo new incremental Royalties on their exclusives sold through Steam and Vice versa. It would also spell instant backward compatibility for PS 4 and WiiU. Someone correct me please if I am wrong. But doesn't Sony and Nintendo use a Linux derivative OS in their consoles? If so the translation and emulation should be fairly easy. And it would be a win-win for all parties concerned IMO.

If anything like that happened...it could capture everyone's attention IMO. And open up a lot of intriguing future development initiatives for us gamers. Will they do it? Who knows. But they sure need some kind of splash like that to get and keep the market talking about their system.
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post #364 of 428 Old 01-10-2014, 09:23 AM
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I think you will get the first two but I dont think the 3rd will ever happen. Sony and Nintendo's main way of brining new gamers to their system is their own private library of games. I doubt that they would give away that advantage.

I understand why many on here are saying, "who will buy this" but honestly I think the majority of us here on AVS are not their target market. I have seen that generally here and on OCN we all would much rather build our own computers or have already built them.

Where these will really sell is parents buying them for their kids because of the massive game library and the parental controls that are available on Steam.
Families that want to be able to have multiple gaming PCs at a more reasonable price...
Or
People that dont want to build a computer.

I still think this is goign to be very successful for Valve. They are not abondoning their current market at all but are simply adding to it. Steam is free software to download and now SteamOS is free as well. The games that we have already bought will carry over if compatible and can be streamed to SteamOS from another windows PC.

In fact you may see this drastically changing the way we game entirely. Maybe instead of your normal gaming PC you will have a gaming server in the coming years that can run multiple games at a time or a single game and stream it to the different Steam Machines in the house. an "In home" cloud if you will.
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post #365 of 428 Old 01-10-2014, 09:36 AM
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I think you will get the first two but I dont think the 3rd will ever happen. Sony and Nintendo's main way of brining new gamers to their system is their own private library of games. I doubt that they would give away that advantage.

I understand why many on here are saying, "who will buy this" but honestly I think the majority of us here on AVS are not their target market. I have seen that generally here and on OCN we all would much rather build our own computers or have already built them.

Where these will really sell is parents buying them for their kids because of the massive game library and the parental controls that are available on Steam.
Families that want to be able to have multiple gaming PCs at a more reasonable price...
Or
People that dont want to build a computer.

I still think this is goign to be very successful for Valve. They are not abondoning their current market at all but are simply adding to it. Steam is free software to download and now SteamOS is free as well. The games that we have already bought will carry over if compatible and can be streamed to SteamOS from another windows PC.

In fact you may see this drastically changing the way we game entirely. Maybe instead of your normal gaming PC you will have a gaming server in the coming years that can run multiple games at a time or a single game and stream it to the different Steam Machines in the house. an "In home" cloud if you will.

Yep.
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post #366 of 428 Old 01-10-2014, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Kimeran View Post

I think you will get the first two but I dont think the 3rd will ever happen. Sony and Nintendo's main way of brining new gamers to their system is their own private library of games. I doubt that they would give away that advantage.

I understand why many on here are saying, "who will buy this" but honestly I think the majority of us here on AVS are not their target market. I have seen that generally here and on OCN we all would much rather build our own computers or have already built them.

Where these will really sell is parents buying them for their kids because of the massive game library and the parental controls that are available on Steam.
Families that want to be able to have multiple gaming PCs at a more reasonable price...
Or
People that dont want to build a computer.

I still think this is goign to be very successful for Valve. They are not abondoning their current market at all but are simply adding to it. Steam is free software to download and now SteamOS is free as well. The games that we have already bought will carry over if compatible and can be streamed to SteamOS from another windows PC.

In fact you may see this drastically changing the way we game entirely. Maybe instead of your normal gaming PC you will have a gaming server in the coming years that can run multiple games at a time or a single game and stream it to the different Steam Machines in the house. an "In home" cloud if you will.

That's basically the way I treat my PC now, except I get it done with really, really long HDMI and USB cables in the walls. It's awesome though because you can put all your money into one machine instead of spending a fortune on redundancy for every room.

I'm sure my the time my baby is old enough to game they'll have it figured out where you can play two games at once.

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post #367 of 428 Old 01-10-2014, 09:14 PM
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Man, Valve's booth at CES was so crappy. They had the Steam Boxes all lined up (whoopie) and on the other side, was one dude at a table thing, with a Steam Controller (hollow and empty is my guess since it was light and felt cheap.) and that was it. The controller was surprisingly comfortable, and I like the 2 big buttons on the underside where your middle and ring fingers rest (perfect for lean in an FPS, or gear up/down in a racing game). But it wasn't connected to anything to actually test out the track pads, so it was essentially useless. Huge disappointment.
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post #368 of 428 Old 01-10-2014, 09:45 PM
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Man, Valve's booth at CES was so crappy. They had the Steam Boxes all lined up (whoopie) and on the other side, was one dude at a table thing, with a Steam Controller (hollow and empty is my guess since it was light and felt cheap.) and that was it. The controller was surprisingly comfortable, and I like the 2 big buttons on the underside where your middle and ring fingers rest (perfect for lean in an FPS, or gear up/down in a racing game). But it wasn't connected to anything to actually test out the track pads, so it was essentially useless. Huge disappointment.

Damn, so no demoing the controller? Considering it's in beta people's hands and comes out this year, I guess Valve didn't value CES.

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post #369 of 428 Old 01-10-2014, 09:57 PM
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Man, Valve's booth at CES was so crappy. They had the Steam Boxes all lined up (whoopie) and on the other side, was one dude at a table thing, with a Steam Controller (hollow and empty is my guess since it was light and felt cheap.) and that was it. The controller was surprisingly comfortable, and I like the 2 big buttons on the underside where your middle and ring fingers rest (perfect for lean in an FPS, or gear up/down in a racing game). But it wasn't connected to anything to actually test out the track pads, so it was essentially useless. Huge disappointment.
That totally sucks! They could have gotten some good feedback from CES if they would have allowed it.

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post #370 of 428 Old 01-11-2014, 10:10 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I think that article is a fair assessment. The final paragraph is exactly right:
It reminds me of how netbooks came with Linux and sucked, came with windows and still sucked, and then chromeOS (a custom Linux build) made them awesome. But that took a few years, as will this.

Polygon, always protecting their masters.

It's good to see someone that gets it: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-01-11-valve-plays-the-long-game-again
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The key to understanding Steam Machines, SteamOS and the Steam Controller is hidden in an unremarkable phrase Gabe Newell tends to use whenever he talks about them. I wasn't in Las Vegas at CES, but I read a couple of live blogs that reported him saying it again: Valve's goal with these things is to protect the openness of the PC as a gaming platform. Over the years, Valve has gone from simply evangelising the PC platform - it once flew journalists in from around the world pretty much just to tell them it was great - to actively protecting it, and what we're seeing now is just the beginning of that push.

If they end up owning the PC game sphere, that's fine by them. But this is mostly to a push to stake out some equity and voting power in PC gaming hardware before it reaches the point that those currently involved in it decide the winds blowing a different way (smart devices, tablet computing, streaming/cloud services) and drop all support.
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post #371 of 428 Old 01-11-2014, 10:15 AM
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Polygon, always protecting their masters.

It's good to see someone that gets it: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-01-11-valve-plays-the-long-game-again
If they end up owning the PC game sphere, that's fine by them. But this is mostly to a push to stake out some equity and voting power in PC gaming hardware before it reaches the point that those currently involved in it decide the winds blowing a different way (smart devices, tablet computing, streaming/cloud services) and drop all support.

 

It's long overdue, that's for sure.  There's no one I'd rather have lead the charge than valve, and I respect the way they're going about it.


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post #372 of 428 Old 01-11-2014, 10:17 AM
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If they end up owning the PC game sphere, that's fine by them. But this is mostly to a push to stake out some equity and voting power in PC gaming hardware before it reaches the point that those currently involved in it decide the winds blowing a different way (smart devices, tablet computing, streaming/cloud services) and drop all support.

Yea, I think that's it. People are so focused on horse races ("console vs. PC", "Gabe versus Microsoft") that they can't see what is realyl going on.

The PC market is collapsing. Full on collapsing. Sales peaked in 2011 and have been on a steady decline since. The decline will continue. People blame Windows 8 but it's really Apple's fault. Apple showed you don't need some big complicated box with a cumbersome OS to do 95% of what you want to do. Windows 8 was a reaction to that, good or bad, but I think most agree MS had to try something.

So, right now, Valve "owns" the PC game market, what happens if PCs disappear?

That's what Valve is reacting to. Right now most PCs are bought to do "other stuff" and do games on the side. The presumption is that tablets and phones will take over "other stuff" but they still want people to buy a PC for games.
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post #373 of 428 Old 01-11-2014, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Take SteamOS. To you and me, it's a direct interface for Steam based on Linux that currently has poor software support. To Valve, though, it's a first step in levering development, publishing, gameplay and community away from their reliance on Windows and DirectX (and to a lesser extent Mac OS), systems that cannot be relied upon in the long term.

The question is will it work. It is, to say the lease, a gamble. Especially with the current entrenchment of technology and PC gamer preference.

To Valve the problem has always been that the Personal Computer also does games. That gaming has been piggy backing on the success of office, and explorer, and all the other stuff that Gamers don't really need. At least at the amount windows gives those other things.

There are big problems for PC gamers on the horizon, especially if the desktop really does goes extinct. There's a number of PC Gamers out there, but it's a much smaller fraction of "desktop users". Smaller user bases mean higher costs (if anyone wants to offer you products at all), which is exactly why Valve is looking to sort of standardize these steam machines and pull much more efficiency out of them. ITLR, if it gets to that, they're looking save PC gaming without letting costs spiral up due to hardware manufactures having to serve a much smaller market share.
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post #374 of 428 Old 01-11-2014, 10:36 AM
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I think the big problem for SteamOS short-term is that the huge Steam library we've all been building is mostly non-functional on it. Some of the biggest PC games out there also do not work on it, like Starcraft 2, World of Warcraft, and Battlefield. I'd probably be a good candidate for SteamOS were it not for that.

The question is really can they convince "regular" people (the type who buy a cheap laptop and then pick up L4D2, Civ5, etc.) to keep investing in the PC platform even if an iPad handles their computing functions just fine. I think it is a tough sell - PCs are expensive, PC games always get more demanding, even a simple AIO PC requires some level of maintenance. I think people are abandoning PCs with good reason (they're too complex for what people need) and I don't see how SteamOS resolves that core issue.
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post #375 of 428 Old 01-11-2014, 10:40 AM
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I think the big problem for SteamOS short-term is that the huge Steam library we've all been building is mostly non-functional on it. Some of the biggest PC games out there also do not work on it, like Starcraft 2, World of Warcraft, and Battlefield. I'd probably be a good candidate for SteamOS were it not for that.

The question is really can they convince "regular" people (the type who buy a cheap laptop and then pick up L4D2, Civ5, etc.) to keep investing in the PC platform even if an iPad handles their computing functions just fine. I think it is a tough sell - PCs are expensive, PC games always get more demanding, even a simple AIO PC requires some level of maintenance. I think people are abandoning PCs with good reason (they're too complex for what people need) and I don't see how SteamOS resolves that core issue.

The fix for that is streaming from your existing PC. I drop a SteamBox in my living room and it pulls those Windows games from my office machine.
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post #376 of 428 Old 01-11-2014, 10:45 AM
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The fix for that is streaming from your existing PC. I drop a SteamBox in my living room and it pulls those Windows games from my office machine.

That's a pain in the butt, though. I'm not interested in doing that at all. I'm not going to spend $500+ on a computer so I can stream from another computer. Streaming is always sub-optimal.
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post #377 of 428 Old 01-11-2014, 11:06 AM
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That's a pain in the butt, though. I'm not interested in doing that at all. I'm not going to spend $500+ on a computer so I can stream from another computer. Streaming is always sub-optimal.

I'd wager some remote playing PS4 types who'd argue that. Reports on that remote play are mostly all positive. In my case I'd have no desire to do it over the internet but my internal LAN is robust enough to do it. Newer engines like Unity are bridging gaps quickly too. Most folks who hardcore PC game already will have very little to gain from a SteamBox out of the gate. It's not a product for those guy anyways. It's Valve looking forward down the road. Steam already sells software what's to say they won't do music and movies. I'd certainly love to see a quarterly Steam sale on HD flicks.
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post #378 of 428 Old 01-11-2014, 11:22 AM
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I'm optimistic the SteamOS will be something all of us will want in the future. Kind of like we all use tablets and smartphones now. SteamOS will be the new thing for gamers.

I think I'll try and install SteamOS tomorrow and give it whirl. Try to bang out the rest of my hulu queue while I mess with it. Lots of shows backed up.

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post #379 of 428 Old 01-11-2014, 11:38 AM - Thread Starter
 
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PITB, but also a great idea for those rocking a $3-4K rig in their office or PC room. A $400 streaming box that can also play less hardware dependent games is a nice feature. Plenty of people are already running their own media servers, so game servers from their beast machine would probably also appeal.

My question in all of this is what happens when the modular PC dies and we're left with smartphone sized devices that you can't easily swap out parts. It WILL happen, like it or not.

I don't think even Valve can stop a future where you really don't play with components, but buy all in one devices the size of a smartphone that are cheaper, more powerful and more replaceable than anything we know today. I honestly think this play from Valve now is to try to get some marketshare for when that happens, because as stated above they want to keep the relative openness of the PC gaming platform going as the technology miniaturizes and becomes less modular. They're looking for a way to influence that end game, rather than let MS/DX lock it into and combine it with their XBox brand in a tightly controlled developer and consumer ecosystem.

Consoles are also going to have to deal with that end game, but they're much better suited since they're already single use, locked down walled garden devices. The "Sony/MS Game-cast" isn't going to be much different that what they do with dedicated consoles now.

This is sort of the end game to the argument that many see consoles and PC's moving toward one another. Valve wants to keep PC Gaming a bit more interesting than just becoming a console ecosystem with more spec options than a traditional console.
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post #380 of 428 Old 01-11-2014, 11:51 AM
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PITB, but also a great idea for those rocking a $3-4K rig in their office or PC room. A $400 streaming box that can also play less hardware dependent games is a nice feature. Plenty of people are already running their own media servers, so game servers from their beast machine would probably also appeal.

My question in all of this is what happens when the modular PC dies and we're left with smartphone sized devices that you can't easily swap out parts. It WILL happen, like it or not.

I don't think even Valve can stop a future where you really don't play with components, but buy all in one devices the size of a smartphone that are cheaper, more powerful and more replaceable than anything we know today. I honestly think this play from Valve now is to try to get some marketshare for when that happens, because as stated above they want to keep the relative openness of the PC gaming platform going as the technology miniaturizes and becomes less modular. They're looking for a way to influence that end game, rather than let MS/DX lock it into and combine it with their XBox brand in a tightly controlled developer and consumer ecosystem.

Consoles are also going to have to deal with that end game, but they're much better suited since they're already single use, locked down walled garden devices. The "Sony/MS Game-cast" isn't going to be much different that what they do with dedicated consoles now.

This is sort of the end game to the argument that many see consoles and PC's moving toward one another. Valve wants to keep PC Gaming a bit more interesting than just becoming a console ecosystem with more spec options than a traditional console.

As long as the damn thing isn't all touch screen controls like the iOS loves....
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post #381 of 428 Old 01-11-2014, 11:56 AM
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PITB, but also a great idea for those rocking a $3-4K rig in their office or PC room. A $400 streaming box that can also play less hardware dependent games is a nice feature. Plenty of people are already running their own media servers, so game servers from their beast machine would probably also appeal.

You don't need a $400 box to stream, though. A $50 box would be quite sufficient.
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They're looking for a way to influence that end game, rather than let MS/DX lock it into and combine it with their XBox brand in a tightly controlled developer and consumer ecosystem.

I've been following Microsoft for a long time and I can honestly say I never saw any hint MS wanted to do this.

MS developed DirectX originally to make PC gaming more straightforward, not exert control over the platform. They did just that. PC gaming since 1995 or so owes a lot to Windows and DirectX. I never saw them try to exert any control over the platform, and I definitely never saw them try to combine it with Xbox. It's a stretch to call GFWL half-assed. I think back then, a lot of PC gamers would actually have welcomed MS taking a more active role in the PC games space. The fact that GFWL was so crappy was very disappointing.

Windows 8 store was not some devious plan to destroy Steam, it was just a way to get in on the app store craze that has popped up everywhere since iPhone. I don't see the day when MS locks out the "desktop" and demands everything be in Metro/RT. Windows will always do what it has always done, it's just that less and less people want that.
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post #382 of 428 Old 01-11-2014, 06:41 PM
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The way Marafice was talking I thought steamos could stream games already. I realized I do have a second nvidia video card, my laptop, and planned to install steamos on that to try streaming. I go looking for the streaming bit and find it's not even in beta yet.

Anyway I'm going to do my research now to make sure I can get steamos installed on the laptop. I rarely use the thing so this is a perfect place for it and streaming if I happen to get in the beta.


I guess it is in beta apparently the first place I found was not updated.

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post #383 of 428 Old 01-11-2014, 07:53 PM
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Some quick googling turns up some issues with the steamOS. Mainly it whipes your HD if you use their installer.

So I found this installer by some fellah calling himself directhex.

http://directhex.github.io/steamos-installer/

Allows you to dual boot, and also allows you to not waste space on a partition the size of texas. Along with a bunch of other hardware driver improvements from the valve installer.

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post #384 of 428 Old 01-11-2014, 08:37 PM
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The modular PC isn't going anywhere, because millions of PC gamers around the world will still buy them. Every trend doesn't have to automatically result in the death of everything before it.

They still make vinyl records, a super inconvenient and flawed format that supposedly died what like 40 years ago? You can still buy separate amps, processors and CD players too. The floorstanding speaker market hasn't collapsed because of soundbars.

If anything I see things going the opposite way. In ten years time Linux will be the predominant PC platform in the home....you just won't know it. My NAS, my router...even my thermostat runs linux. I suspect my hue lightbulbs, printer and security cams (all of which have webservers) also run linux. It's not so unbelievable that gaming/computing devices follow the same path. It'll be chromeOS, SteamOS, OriginOS or whatever....it'll all be cross compatible. If Sony and MS make another console, it'll probably be just another Linux box with their own interface, just like amazon did with the kindle fire. And within that structure there will be non-modular consoles, modular consoles, build it yourself....whatever. There's enough computing power to go around now that the 20-30% performance gain from having a fixed platform isn't necessary anymore. Just like every other tech, a standard, cross-compatible platform is part of its natural maturation.

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post #385 of 428 Old 01-12-2014, 12:03 AM
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Alright, so I got this thing running on my laptop. But I'm having some kind of issue with the MBR I believe. When I reboot it goes into the grub rescue thing. Which I have no idea how to use. But I've found that my 2 OS's are still functioning if I can manage to get into the bios and restart. It's like half a second time from power on to this grub menu and near impossible to hit a button before it boots.

I'm completely underwhelmed. It's just steam big picture with about 10 total games that work on linux right now. I guess if I had a use for steam big picture maybe I would use it. I have not really messed with big picture at all. I did like the way the store displays the individual game detail page though. But navigating up to that point, I'd rather use the normal steam store.


Maybe there is a way to launch the steam OS from grub, but I'm lost. Oh well, I'll probably remove the partition and get rid of it, unless I get the streaming beta.


Just in case anyone has any helpful hints.

It tells me no such device and lists this long code and then I get a "grub rescue>" command prompt.

My laptop has a 256g SSD with a bunch of partitions and windows8. It's how it came I didn't mess with it.
It has a 1tb HD which I split 500g for NTFS and 500g I split according the the FAQ I used to install this modded steamOS.
8gb partition for base steam os
3gb for a swap partition
8gb for a recovery partition
Whatever was left was used for games, 400+gigs.

When I managed to get into the BIOS I noticed the boot option for steamOS lists the SSD drive.



Now that I write it all out I think I might know what I missed, I'll have to see if google can help me fix it. Otherwise I'm just going to get rid of it and fix my windows MBR.



Last edit smile.gif : I just removed the partitions and set me back to normal. I'll try again when they update the OS a little more and have an official installer with dual booting options.


The valve installer now is going to wipe whatever your first drive is, and possibly others too. I don't know for sure on that.

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post #386 of 428 Old 01-12-2014, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Yrd View Post

Alright, so I got this thing running on my laptop. But I'm having some kind of issue with the MBR I believe. When I reboot it goes into the grub rescue thing. Which I have no idea how to use. But I've found that my 2 OS's are still functioning if I can manage to get into the bios and restart. It's like half a second time from power on to this grub menu and near impossible to hit a button before it boots.

I'm completely underwhelmed. It's just steam big picture with about 10 total games that work on linux right now. I guess if I had a use for steam big picture maybe I would use it. I have not really messed with big picture at all. I did like the way the store displays the individual game detail page though. But navigating up to that point, I'd rather use the normal steam store.


Maybe there is a way to launch the steam OS from grub, but I'm lost. Oh well, I'll probably remove the partition and get rid of it, unless I get the streaming beta.


Just in case anyone has any helpful hints.

It tells me no such device and lists this long code and then I get a "grub rescue>" command prompt.

My laptop has a 256g SSD with a bunch of partitions and windows8. It's how it came I didn't mess with it.
It has a 1tb HD which I split 500g for NTFS and 500g I split according the the FAQ I used to install this modded steamOS.
8gb partition for base steam os
3gb for a swap partition
8gb for a recovery partition
Whatever was left was used for games, 400+gigs.

When I managed to get into the BIOS I noticed the boot option for steamOS lists the SSD drive.



Now that I write it all out I think I might know what I missed, I'll have to see if google can help me fix it. Otherwise I'm just going to get rid of it and fix my windows MBR.



Last edit smile.gif : I just removed the partitions and set me back to normal. I'll try again when they update the OS a little more and have an official installer with dual booting options.


The valve installer now is going to wipe whatever your first drive is, and possibly others too. I don't know for sure on that.

 

Yeah, right now it's like the OS is one of those "early access" games. 


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post #387 of 428 Old 01-12-2014, 01:49 PM
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I did have a chuckle on the name of the web browser that was included, IceWeasel.

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post #388 of 428 Old 01-12-2014, 02:04 PM
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Man, Valve's booth at CES was so crappy. They had the Steam Boxes all lined up (whoopie) and on the other side, was one dude at a table thing, with a Steam Controller (hollow and empty is my guess since it was light and felt cheap.) and that was it. The controller was surprisingly comfortable, and I like the 2 big buttons on the underside where your middle and ring fingers rest (perfect for lean in an FPS, or gear up/down in a racing game). But it wasn't connected to anything to actually test out the track pads, so it was essentially useless. Huge disappointment.

Great discussion guys. The posts on this page are exceptional IMO.

@Marafice- I wouldn't be too disappointed with that Eye. CES is not the forum for Valve to splash something like this out. I'm surprised they even showed up at CES. And based on your comment...they shouldn't have. Better to be absent and ready (when it's time)...than too early and disappointing to even one potential customer. But with that said...I'm much more interested in hearing and reading about results from their January Strategic Planning/Partnership Conference. I posted the agenda for that conference in December. I think that is where the real jump forward will come from. Right now we are just in the earliest Beta stage. That conference will incorporate a ton of feedback from users, experts, developers and etc into prototypes for devices over multiple platforms. Bottom line is this. Valve...and SteamOS is not remotely ready for "Prime Time". And I think BD2003 said it best. When it is there in the future...most will not even know it, except for the hard core advocates & enthusiasts like us.

I will add this as a final thought. SteamOS has me seriously thinking about "How" I want to build my next PC (probably in 2015). It is forcing me to ponder a lot of different possibilities. A lot of my early thoughts revolve around small form factor...multiple Boot SSDs...multiple outboard storage...multiple OS...docking setups...multi monitor. It to me that the MOBO companies have to be considering this trajectory too. And creating new types of mobo's that allow more evolved component docking approaches. For example...a multi stage/part mobo capable of diverging function...and converging it back in an optimum user desired matrix (3-4 small docked cases) from central CPU/GPU control configurations. This is sorta hope I will be able to do in the future with Windows 8.???...Steam OS version ???...Xbox OS....PS OS...and Multi Media.
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post #389 of 428 Old 01-12-2014, 02:35 PM
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Great discussion guys. The posts on this page are exceptional IMO.

@Marafice- I wouldn't be too disappointed with that Eye. CES is not the forum for Valve to splash something like this out. I'm surprised they even showed up at CES. And based on your comment...they shouldn't have. Better to be absent and ready (when it's time)...than too early and disappointing to even one potential customer. But with that said...I'm much more interested in hearing and reading about results from their January Strategic Planning/Partnership Conference. I posted the agenda for that conference in December. I think that is where the real jump forward will come from. Right now we are just in the earliest Beta stage. That conference will incorporate a ton of feedback from users, experts, developers and etc into prototypes for devices over multiple platforms. Bottom line is this. Valve...and SteamOS is not remotely ready for "Prime Time". And I think BD2003 said it best. When it is there in the future...most will not even know it, except for the hard core advocates & enthusiasts like us.

I will add this as a final thought. SteamOS has me seriously thinking about "How" I want to build my next PC (probably in 2015). It is forcing me to ponder a lot of different possibilities. A lot of my early thoughts revolve around small form factor...multiple Boot SSDs...multiple outboard storage...multiple OS...docking setups...multi monitor. It to me that the MOBO companies have to be considering this trajectory too. And creating new types of mobo's that allow more evolved component docking approaches. For example...a multi stage/part mobo capable of diverging function...and converging it back in an optimum user desired matrix (3-4 small docked cases) from central CPU/GPU control configurations. This is sorta hope I will be able to do in the future with Windows 8.???...Steam OS version ???...Xbox OS....PS OS...and Multi Media.

 

Are you thinking something like this?

 

http://www.razerzone.com/press/detail/press-releases/razer-re-invents-gaming-desktops-with-the-worlds-most-modular-pc-concept-design

 

I'm personally fine with the PCBs, since I'm sure razer will charge a fortune for this kind of convenience. But if this became some sort of industry standard that didn't add too much cost, I could dig it.

 

This is the kind of thing an open platform gets you. Just because its complicated now doesn't mean it has to be, as long as the platform permits people and companies to innovate and build exactly what they want. I'd be considerably less excited about SteamOS if it was some sort of plot to lock PCs down. But the OS is open source, they're even supposedly going to release the blueprints for the controller, etc. You can get your modular PC, I can keep on building my towers, or you can buy a console-like box, a Wii gamepad style tablet with the steam machine inside, VR goggles or whatever else some crazy person can dream up and sell. Any parts, any controller, games going back to 1980 from any number of storefronts, and its all backwards AND forwards compatible.

 

Or you can have whatever Microsoft, Sony or Nintendo want, and should you ever decide to switch allegiances, all your hardware and software are useless. 

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post #390 of 428 Old 01-12-2014, 03:26 PM
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Are you thinking something like this?

http://www.razerzone.com/press/detail/press-releases/razer-re-invents-gaming-desktops-with-the-worlds-most-modular-pc-concept-design

I'm personally fine with the PCBs, since I'm sure razer will charge a fortune for this kind of convenience. But if this became some sort of industry standard that didn't add too much cost, I could dig it.

This is the kind of thing an open platform gets you. Just because its complicated now doesn't mean it has to be, as long as the platform permits people and companies to innovate and build exactly what they want. I'd be considerably less excited about SteamOS if it was some sort of plot to lock PCs down. But the OS is open source, they're even supposedly going to release the blueprints for the controller, etc. You can get your modular PC, I can keep on building my towers, or you can buy a console-like box, a Wii gamepad style tablet with the steam machine inside, VR goggles or whatever else some crazy person can dream up and sell. Any parts, any controller, games going back to 1980 from any number of storefronts, and its all backwards AND forwards compatible.

Or you can have whatever Microsoft, Sony or Nintendo want, and should you ever decide to switch allegiances, all your hardware and software are useless. 

Exactly BD. Wow!...that Razer sys looks great. And is exactly what I had in mind. Right now it's just a bunch of ideas roaming around in my head. But it is definitely about a modular design like the Razer. But one that can dock or link to a few central system functions. I think I want both modularity and scalability. But without wire/system clutter...and too much redundancy. It would have to "Dock" like your Razer exhibit because I don't know if a modular Mobo exists that will allow a scale up like I'm thinking. So right now I expect there would be redundancy. What I really want is a system similar to Razer. And I can program turn on/off functions with the Steam Controller. Button A=computer A...Button B=computer B...and etc. They turn on or switch instantaneously. And access the monitor array and storage array on a shared and independent basis. Plus it can stream to anywhere in the house via a wireless, HDMI or Ethernet connection. I'm going to think about this a lot in 2014. With an eye toward starting a project in 2015.

I think the kind of design I'm kicking around and Razer is showing...will ultimately require a very different approach to Mobo and peripheral designs. Because to get optimum modularity...the systems should be as seamless a plugging in devices as small as cell phones into a central configuration. What made me really think out loud about this was your comment in a post above. Towit: " The modular PC isn't going anywhere, because millions of PC gamers around the world will still buy them. Every trend doesn't have to automatically result in the death of everything before it." I agree with that 100%.
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